From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #139 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, April 20 2001 Volume 10 : Number 139 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re:My Mind isnt Connected [Stephen Mahoney ] 2 years ago [HAL ] Re: WankerLost [GSS ] Gauzy Feast [dmw ] Re: CD info for Big Quail [GSS ] Re: 2 years ago ["J. Brown" ] Re: WankerLost [Capuchin ] Re: 2 years ago [HAL ] trying to match Kay's consolidation knack [Eb ] Re: 2 years ago [HAL ] Re: WankerLost [GSS ] eggo my heart ["ross taylor" ] Re: For the portlish fegs (now DVD) [Capuchin ] Re: investigating [Capuchin ] Mr. E. Reference ["JH3" ] [none] ["Spring Cherry" ] Re: investigating [Viv Lyon ] The divine Howard D. [Jill Brand ] Re: WankerLost ["victorian squid" ] FTAA [GSS ] Re: Mind is Connected ["victorian squid" ] a tidbit of info... [Stephen Mahoney ] Re: FTAA [Viv Lyon ] Re: FTAA ["JH3" ] Re: 2 years ago ["Maximilian Lang" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:37:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: Re:My Mind isnt Connected on a quick note, I realize that "mind is connected" is not a stereo MC's song...I am sorry if I went overboard on my reply to Jeme the other day, and Sir Loin Stockades posting made me laugh so hard I think I ruptured something. Also I really think Ebs listing of links on the feedthefish site are outrageous!!!! where did you find these???? - -Jeme's and Viv's neighbor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:48:44 -0600 From: HAL Subject: 2 years ago Strange. 11:21am MDT today marked the two year anniversary of the Columbine High shootings. At *exactly* 11:21 (I'm NOT kidding), the clouds began to produce a slow, steady rain. I live in Littleton and had the TV on watching the local memorial service broadcast going on at Clement Park, right up the street. The service finally ended about 5 minutes ago and just at *that* moment, the rain stopped and now it's mostly sunny. Strange. /hal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:04:35 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: Re: WankerLost On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Sirloin Stockade wrote: > "But, sir...I mean...I only..." he trailed off. That blew the whole damn story for me as we all know that the only person who would ever call Eb 'sir', here on earth, hasn't been with us fer near 30 years, at least here on earth. Peace, love and Linux "...from the high-tech nexus known as South of Market to the historic crossroads at Haight and Ashbury, where die-hard hippies panhandle for change." gSs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:11:20 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Gauzy Feast On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Bayard Catron wrote: > Great! Know of a suitable venue? And I would not limit it to just people > who are on the CD; for example, feckless beast and/or shoddy workmanship > would be surely invited to play, no? (any other DC/Baltimore fegbands > about?) aw, thanks. one of these weekends, i'll do a cover, honest. the upside is, it will be a whole lot better than it would've been if i'd done it when Bayard first asked for it. so lately the black cat has been hosting a bunch of shows where dc-area bands pay tribute to an artist -- 7 or 8 bands doing two or three songs each. so far neil young and spacemen 3 have gotten the treatment, and the mag i write for is in the planning stages of a GBV show. (i have dibs on "as we go up we go down," don't even think about it.) so a hitch show seems like a pretty logical candidate and i always love playing the 'cat. well, except for once, but we won't go into that. if it were also a cd-release party too, i'm sure we could mobilize some of your friends in the press to promote the thing, but remember that most of your friends in the press need a couple months lead time to be at their most effective. - -- d. shoddy workmanship, fiercer than ever, but almost certainly drumless, next rears its bulbous, fleshy head at the big hunt, sun may 6, w/switchplate. just south of dupont circ. we continue to seek a versatile, talented drummer, for originals in the vein of beefheart, king crimson, misfits. np gbv _jellyfish reflector_ - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.shoddyworkmanship.net -- post punk skronk rawk = the new thing - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = rock music ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:11:55 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: Re: CD info for Big Quail On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Cayard Batron wrote: > By the way, I saw Schindler's List on pbs last night and they had a thing > with Spielberg after - whoever said it was right, Senor Spielbergo would > be perfect to play the quail. He has the same sort of manner and he > favors him. And he's made at least three WWII movies! John Candy is the only one who could pull the Quail thing off correctly. But he's dead so Eb will have to play the part. Well, Eb or Bob Lilly. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:37:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: 2 years ago And 112 years ago Adolph Hitler was born! and 23 yars ago my friend Adrianne was born! Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Put your faith in death because it's free" -Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:46:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: WankerLost On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, GSS wrote: > Peace, love and Linux > > "...from the high-tech nexus known as South of Market to the > historic crossroads at Haight and Ashbury, where die-hard hippies > panhandle for change." > First, I'll state the obvious. There's nothing "Geurilla" about a commercial advertising campaign. Nothing. And I can't tell you how I feel when I think about how the city of SF will take you down for spraypainting a sidewalk, but if you're IBM and you pay them money, they're fine with it. Second, I recently had a talk with some folks at IBM regarding a development gig. (IBM bought local super[ish]computer company Sequent about a year ago. These are the systems for which they're all fired up to run Linux.) So I went out there because it's a closer job to home and it's a more serious kind of work, but still for a good cause. My biggest qualms were the fact that they destroyed what was once a local company with very progressive policies (Sequent paid for the construction of a public elementary school near its campus and subsidized pre-school daycare in their facilities for children of employees and non-employees alike.), they're still fucking IBM, and I don't know if I quite trust them to do "the right thing" for Free software. None of these qualms were alleviated in the slightest by the dozens of huge "Peace, Love & Linux" signs strewn about the place. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:49:04 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: 2 years ago J. Brown wrote: > And 112 years ago Adolph Hitler was born! That's exactly why Dylan/Klebold chose the date, the little creeps. /hal now not playing: DOOM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:57:52 -0700 From: Eb Subject: trying to match Kay's consolidation knack Stephen: >Also I really think Ebs listing of links on the feedthefish >site are outrageous!!!! where did you find these???? Ehh, Eddie doesn't do me justice. I've probably posted 40 others which are just as fun. ;) Brian: >The original SB material was the better performed. Sideways is an excellent >opener. Old Pervert was outstanding, Kim's guitar was intensely sharp and >crunchy over a solid rythm section. Insanely Jealous was also excellent. >In Only the Stones Remain the girls definately ovulated. JBranscombe: >Starsailor - Young band being hyped like buggery. They're OK - singer's got >a good voice, but it's all a bit David Gray/Travizzzzz...for me Huh...haven't even heard of 'em. >Goldfrapp- Interesting trip-hoppy outfit with female lead-singer. She's getting a surprising amount of acclaim. Myself, I thought the album was kinda stiff and sterile (if more musical than most albums with such synthetic instrumentation). Maybe I should try it again. >I think, Eb, that the 'opera' Dave mentioned must be Mirror Man, which had >its first outing in '98. Well, yes, I have the CD version of that work. But somehow, I got the impression this opera was "new." I could be wrong. And it has been too long since I listened to Mirror Man -- I couldn't identify compositions from the album, if they were played the other night. What's the deal with 15-60-75? I've never heard of them, either. Thomas was raving about Robert Kidney and this band onstage, as well. All I know about Kidney is that he's on a Golden Palominos record or two. GSS: >That blew the whole damn story for me as we all know that the only >person who would ever call Eb 'sir', here on earth, hasn't been with us >fer near 30 years, at least here on earth. Uhh...you'll have to explain this comment. But if you're talking about Jimi Hendrix, I suspect he wouldn't call me "sir" either. I'm doing a rare "alumni show" at my old college radio station, later this afternoon. Must go pull discs, now.... Eb, who has HATED Cheetos all his life ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:58:12 -0600 From: HAL Subject: Re: 2 years ago my mistake: > Dylan/Klebold Sorry. It's Harris and Klebold (the infamous li'l bastards...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:26:35 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: Re: WankerLost On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Capuchin wrote: > > "...from the high-tech nexus known as South of Market to the > > historic crossroads at Haight and Ashbury, where die-hard hippies > > panhandle for change." > > > First, I'll state the obvious........ Agreed......, The most interesting thing to me was the last part of the sentence, "where die-hard hippies panhandle for change". I have only experienced SF a few times but I took full advantage and didn't see a single hippie anywhere near the corner of Haight and Ashbury, in the park or blocking entrances to McDonald's. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:29:56 -0400 From: "ross taylor" Subject: eggo my heart Pulse of My Heart-- me- >I thought it was Robyn-as-death K-- >As for the girl--wings. Now Id never thought of engorged labia(minor and major) as wings before Man reads death, woman reads sex, same old thing happen every day. :) Of course in the Renaissance they called it "the little death." But that was then. AnywayKay, I think you're right, at least as much as anyone can be "right" about this kind of lyric--"coming" seems to be the central word here. (You even revived an old thread, since Bo Diddly recorded "Do the Do.") I don't mean to play down the music--as a fan of Robert Johnson, Rolling Stones, REM etc. I like sometimes not knowing the words, I even hated it when I first saw a transcription of "Kohutec." Frank Zappa said "and then there's the words." I forget who it was that said "setting a poem to music is like looking at a painting in the light of a stained glass window." (Not to be confused w/ Mingus' "dancing about architecture" quote.) But people like Dylan and Robyn are the ones who've helped me stay interested in poetry. Howard Devoto-- there's many an evening I've gone to some relatively noise-proof part of the house and strummed/croaked my way thru "Song from Under the Floorboards." I too prefer Magazine to the Buzzcocks. But I also prefer "Homosapien"/ "Telephone Operator" era Shelly to the Buzzcocks. reunions-- What about a Verlaines reunion? Ross Taylor Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:51:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: For the portlish fegs (now DVD) On Wed, 18 Apr 2001, steve wrote: > On Wednesday, April 18, 2001, at 06:27 PM, Capuchin wrote: > > And DVD is nothing but a scam to remove the concept of "sale" and copying > > from the private vocabulary. > > [If they REALLY wanted to give you better picture quality, why'd they > > stick with S-Video, composite, and coax as your only choices for output?] > > They didn't - the higher end decks have component outputs. This is what I was refering to when I said "composite"... my mistake, obviously. But component output still isn't going to give you ALL of the data the standard allows one to imprint on a disc. And remember that all of those are analog out. Digital output is also prevented by the player license (thought completely within the published specification). > But they are trying to use the coming HDTV standards to prevent > digital recording. > > And isn't Microsoft helping them *and* getting ready to try to kill > MP3s via Windows XP? (So what's new?). They've been doing it for a century. They tried altering the size of the spoke wheels and playback speed on film projectors so you'd have to buy their projector to play their movies (and you couldn't afford a projector for both THEIR movies and other movies produced by the non-patented method). Then they just tried owning the movie theaters outright. Then they tried blocking/taxing the sale of video casettes. Each time, the US Department of Justice has agreed with the general public that these are illegal restictions and abuse of power by the entertainment companies. A kind of extortion, really, and certainly anti-competitive. But now the companies are winning and the people are losing. The laws are bought and the judges used to be their attorneys. The general public has somehow been convinced that any decision made in the interest of profit is ethical. And somehow oxymorons like "intellectual property" are used to justify the privatization of the public sphere. 'scuse me while I weep... and pick out a flackjacket and hair dye. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 12:56:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: investigating On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Jill Brand wrote: > Vurt (by Jeff Noone) You know, I really enjoyed Vurt when I read it. But in retrospect, I don't think there's much to it. I tried reading The Automated Alice (also by Noone) and couldn't get into it at all. It smacked of that kind of pseudoscientific pseudocleverness that you get from people who aren't quite as smart as they think they are and probably took in far too many "mind expanding" chemicals. And who the fuck thinks they're clever enough to write another sequel to Alice? I haven't read Pollen. But I do intend to give it a shot and see if Mr. Noone can remind me why I liked Vurt. > Withnail and I Viv loves this movie. We rented it a few months back and just couldn't get into it. No idea why not. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:07:26 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Mr. E. Reference >>That blew the whole damn story for me as we all know that the only >>person who would ever call Eb 'sir', here on earth, hasn't been with us >>fer near 30 years, at least here on earth. >Uhh...you'll have to explain this comment. But if you're talking about Jimi >Hendrix, I suspect he wouldn't call me "sir" either. Interesting... I thought of Hendrix first too, oddly enough. But then I remembered that Hendrix *is* buried somewhere on Earth, so it can't be him anyway. John H. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:09:03 -0000 From: "Spring Cherry" Subject: [none] Branscombe: >A very attractive actress I worked with recently said that, in about >ten > >years, she wanted me to play Anthony to her Cleopatra. I'm >counting the >days....;-) Like a dolphin overleaping his element ... (I have a weakness for that bit, it was always a big deal(and very beautiful) when I was growing up at the beach and we would spot dolphins arching over the waves.) Well, stuff in A&C transcends time so who knows, ... you may have already done it;-) Since when I was 14 I was press-ganged into playing Orlando in AYLI Ive always wanted to get a tardis and go back to when I was 16 and play Rosalind. Who knows, my whole life might have been different if they'd just let me play the -girl- parts;-). Brian: >while Robyn >unencumberd by a guitar danced in a Jaggeresque manner, Please tell me someone videoed this;-)I loved seeing him dance Bowiesque during the last tour. Jaggeresques is almost beyond imagining. P.S. I hate your girlfried;-) Luther: >Did anybody tape the Largo gig? >I'd like a copy---contact me off line. Please contact me too. I would love Largo. Kenneth, who may or may not have a broken body part: >Kay on Pulse: >very excellent analysis, Thank you. I usually never actually carve up a song like that cause I prefer letting it unfold itself to me. But I also like puzzles, plus hating it when people say Hitchcock's stuff is nonsense or dosnt hold together. Makes me want to proove it -- does. > the song's rhythm (as in any good "4-min pop tune"/sex..."you can set >your watch by me I'm a regular guy I get up and then I walk away") builds >appropriately including a blissful slow down before the final punctuation. >I love the punctual/temporal imagery in the lyrics. This places the song >alongside much of Jewels for Sophia. In fact I would go so far as to >suggest that it belongs on the album. Agreed. But I like the SBs on it--a pop band for a pop song. In some ways it reminds me of "Another Bubble." Candy, but with a zing to it. > Something that may take five minutes (Robyn's middle-age stamina no >doubt, how honest and tender) Being middle-age myself here I need to stand-up for middle-age guys everywhere(dont know what you are.) On average middle-age guys last longer than younger ones. They know their own body and its responses better, also, cause it takes them abit longer to reload, they're may be less careless with what they've got. Going to Robyn in particular, if you pay attention to his lyrics, it appears he's --never-- had any stamina;-)(e.i."How Do You Work This Thing""Staying Still"), and he's always been honest about it. >...could seemingly last forever. I >love the line: "You can tell what time it is by looking yourself in the >eye." ....obviously with the help of a mirror, in this case the mirror of >your loved ones eyes and as you look into the mirror you create eternity... Yup. Theres the identity thing in the song too. The you and I who are the boy and girl, except the you and I are the everyday, walk around versions, the boy and girl the sexual side. And the great end line--"you know that its you". Well who knows and who is known? Who are you when you come? Both identity and time melt. What I like about Robyn is that he can actually write and sing about this stuff without stooping to cliche. >Mind is Connected: > >A haunting sound to be sure....I cannot yet connect all the imagery. Could >there be some references that I am missing? It seems to be about the >entertainment industry, rock and roll specifically, and the obsession with >it, complete with tours, tattoos, tees and collector's merchandise. >What is the line in the refrain? "It's only a poisonous plant/blunt/???" Brian: >I thought it was "it's only a poisonous plant, but [or and] it's >calling >your name. I havent gotten into this one yet(Ive only had my recording for less than two days, and occasionally, I do have a life.) Could someone post the lyrics. Somehow, I think the underside bit may play in. Floridas at the bottom of the US, Africa's below Europe. And isnt the butler the underside of his employer? I promise to not get all analytical again;-)(Well, Ill ...try) I think its a good sign that we all like different songs. If a few were pure duds no one would be mentioning them. Have a great weekend Kay, who will spend much of it smelling of compost;-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:29:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: investigating On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Capuchin wrote: > On Thu, 19 Apr 2001, Jill Brand wrote: > > Vurt (by Jeff Noone) > > You know, I really enjoyed Vurt when I read it. But in retrospect, I > don't think there's much to it. And I hated it from the get-go. re: Withnail and I > Viv loves this movie. We rented it a few months back and just couldn't > get into it. No idea why not. Why, you...you don't know me at all! I've been living with a stranger. Oh, mortification. I don't "love" that movie. I hardly even like it. I've never been able to like it, try as I might, although scores of people have insisted that it's just the kind of movie I would like. I do like Richard E. Grant, true, but man! that movie grates on my nerves. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:27:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Jill Brand Subject: The divine Howard D. In answer to Maximillian's question, Howard Devoto's solo album was called Jerky Versions of the Dream. HD was catapulted back into my memory when you all were complaining about the SB show at the Irving Plaza. I *believe* that I saw Howard Devoto there in October 1983, although it might have been the Peppermint Lounge (is that possible?). I had gone to see him at the Paradise in Boston (where I have seen impossibly wonderful shows over the last 19 years - Robyn, Robyn, Robyn, Soft Boys, Ray Davies, Howard Devoto, David Johansen [sp?], Billy Bragg, and and and) two weeks before, and then went to NYC to visit my parents. My friend Steven (Public Image Ltd. obsessive and all-things-Buzzcocky aficionado) got tix for us to see Howard's NY show, and I had forgotten the rules of the city. In Boston, EVERYTHING closes at 2, and last call for drinks is at 1. In NYC, nothing closes and clubs want to strip you naked on drink expenses. There were two horrible opening acts and it was about 2:30 when HD finally hit the stage. The show was good, but I was falling off my feet. Then, after we left, we went in search of the perfect egg cream. The next day, I had to get up at around 8 to help my mother with a big family party. I never wanted to do that again, although I wish the man hadn't disappeared. The first Luxuria album was great, but then..... Jill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:36:10 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: WankerLost On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:26:35 GSS wrote: >"where die-hard hippies panhandle for change". I have only experienced >SF a few times but I took full advantage and didn't see a single hippie >anywhere near the corner of Haight and Ashbury, in the park or blocking >entrances to McDonald's. When we visited SF last June, we stayed for part of the time in a BnB in the area in question. And eh, it were covered in em. How could you not have seen any? Maybe there was a Phish show that day or maybe they'd all shuffled off to Golden Gate Park. If you tell me you didn't see any in Golden Gate Park I will have to assume that you need your eyes checked. Totally unrelated tangent #1: Bayard, did you get my "Evil Guy" lyric? I haven't seen it up at lyricsmaniax and with all the talk of lost mail I'm worried. Happy to resend. Totally unrelated tangent #2: It has come to my attention that a previous post of mine about trades wasn't as clear as it could be. I meant to say that I would like to -receive- copies of the Seattle and Vancouver shows, not that I -have- copies. Sorry about the confusion. loveonya, Susan Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:37:17 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: FTAA How can free trade not benefit everyone? If I have a product or service, be it a new designer drug or a new treatment for feline leukemia or whatever, how would I not benefit from being allowed to market it to the Bolivians or the Peruvians or the Cubans or the Iraqi's? Closed boarders in any regard suck. I should be allowed to visit any part of any place anywhere in the universe. Once we can move from system to system or galaxy to galaxy, I bet they'll put trade and passage regulations on entire clusters. Fuck the state. gSs ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:42:15 -0700 From: "victorian squid" Subject: Re: Mind is Connected - -- On Thu, 19 Apr 2001 22:42:39 Russ Reynolds wrote: >head. Am I the only one who thinks it's a really good song? No :). Nothing to add to the excellent commentary so far posted, I just wanted to raise my hand and note that I mentioned liking it a real lot in my post about the Portland show. It's probably my favorite of the new ones. loveonya, susan Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:57:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Mahoney Subject: a tidbit of info... dont know if this has ever been brought up, thought it was interesting though... http://www.ee.washington.edu/conselec/CE/kuhn/cdaudio2/95x7.htm (from a link called Intro to Audio cds, as I recall). The author describes the cd and says: Notice that the pits (where the data is encoded - slb) are far closer to the silk screened side of the disk (20 microns) than they are to the read side of the disk (1.55 mm). Thus, it is easier to permanently damage a disk by scratching the top -- than the bottom. > The best audience is intelligent, well-educated and a little drunk. > > ~ Alben W. Barkley (U.S. Vice President) ~ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:01:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: FTAA On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, GSS wrote: > How can free trade not benefit everyone? If I have a product or service, > be it a new designer drug or a new treatment for feline leukemia or > whatever, how would I not benefit from being allowed to market it to the > Bolivians or the Peruvians or the Cubans or the Iraqi's? Closed boarders > in any regard suck. I should be allowed to visit any part of any place > anywhere in the universe. Once we can move from system to system or galaxy > to galaxy, I bet they'll put trade and passage regulations on entire > clusters. Fuck the state. Tell me it's a troll. Just tell me it's a troll. I don't have time to respond to this today. Well, I'll give it a shot anyway- Greg, it's not that they want no tariffs. If it were just that, I'd be almost inclined to agree with you. No no no. They want NO restrictions on anything anywhere for any reason. Now, I've seen you post sensible things on this here list, and I've met you in person, you've even been in my home and I have ascertained that you are a reasonable creature. I may have to alter that judgement, however, if you tell me that you don't think that there should be retribution for companies that abuse their workers, poison the air, water and land, lie to consumers, and produce dangerous and shoddy merchandise. And the kind of laws that attempt to regulate this kind of behavior are the real target of the WTO, GATT, WIPO, NAFTA and now FTAA. Transnational business is tired of even having to pretend to play nice. They'd rather drop the facade for once and all. Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:12:46 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: FTAA GSS writes: >How can free trade not benefit everyone? Dumping? Overall quality reductions for entire classes of consumer products, once the indigenous manufacturers are forced out of business? Importation of diseases and parasites into what ought to be closed ecologies? Undercutting of indigenous agriculture and cottage industries, forcing unskilled workers into unemployment? Exportation of jobs to places where labor is cheaper, due to that increased unemployment? The cumulative effect resulting in increased immigration and brain-drain from the third world? I'm just guessin'. >If I have a product or service, >be it a new designer drug or a new treatment for feline leukemia or >whatever, how would I not benefit from being allowed to market it to the >Bolivians or the Peruvians or the Cubans or the Iraqi's? Closed boarders >in any regard suck. I should be allowed to visit any part of any place >anywhere in the universe. Fine by me, but what are the advantages for those *other than youself*? John "full of questions today" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:43:08 -0400 From: "Maximilian Lang" Subject: Re: 2 years ago Hal wrote >my mistake:> > > Dylan/Klebold > >Sorry. It's Harris and Klebold (the infamous li'l bastards...) Hal, You are being too polite. Max _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #139 ********************************