From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V10 #71 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, March 11 2001 Volume 10 : Number 071 Today's Subjects: ----------------- A development of utmost cultural importance! [steve ] Re: Triple Albums ["Russ Reynolds" ] Re: Triple Albums [Eb ] Re: Triple Albums [Jeff Dwarf ] you'll see your simpsons...putting crimps in the crimson ["Andrew D. Simc] Re: Quiz! [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: US Copyright law ["Noe Shalev" ] So much good music, so little time [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Re: US Copyright law [Capuchin ] computer question ["Russ Reynolds" ] middle class hero extinct ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: Cathode Ray Gub [recount chocula ] Re: US Copyright law [Rob Gronotte ] Pre-Show Meet-Ups [Bayard ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:38:53 -0600 From: steve Subject: A development of utmost cultural importance! Here it is: http://www.express.com/consumer/products_movies_fr.asp?PRODUCTNUMBER=8085 While we're on the subject of TV, can anybody advise me as to the relative merits of Direct TV and Dish Network? The goal is to be able to tune two stations at the same time and get local channels. Almost time for Dragonball Z - Steve __________ I'd sit down and meditate but my ass is on fire. - Bill Nelson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 21:59:52 -0800 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: Re: Triple Albums > Frank Zappa--Shut up and Play Your Guitar SU&PYG was also originally three separate (mail order only) releases: Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar, Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar Some More and Return Of The Son Of Shut Up 'N Play Yer Guitar. Yes, side 5 of Bangla Desh is in fact "a friend of us all...Mr. Bob Dylan" If we throw out the live albums how many triples are left? Not many, I suspect. Does anyone know if the Smashing Pumpkins' "Melon Colie & The Infinite Sadness" saw a vinyl release? I would think that might encompass six sides, which would have made a fine triple album. So then if we're all sure Zip Zip is a vinyl only track I'm off to order my vinly copy of Underwater Moonlight. - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:39:39 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Triple Albums >If we throw out the live albums how many triples are left? Well, if you're gonna be strict about it, you oughta throw out *compilations* before you throw out live albums...no? And if you dump compilations *and* live albums, boy...pickings are mighty slim. Not many folks in the 69 Love Songs club. Incidentally, Grant Lee Phillips appeared in "Gilmore Girls" again, last night. There were two segments, including a final acoustic performance of "Mockingbirds" which underlaid the action for quite awhile. Eb now playing: Kristin Hersh/Sunny Border Blue now not playing: Jethro Tull/Bursting Out ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:52:13 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Triple Albums Russ Reynolds wrote: > Does anyone know if the Smashing Pumpkins' "Melon Colie & The > Infinite Sadness" saw a vinyl release? I would think that might > encompass six sides, which would have made a fine triple album. yep, with two extra tracks: the "tonite reprise" from the "tonight tonight" single, and an instrumental called "infinte sadness" (different from the opening instrumental. the weird thing was, the running order was radically different after the first two songs. and the two additional side names (sides a,c,d,&f took their names from the names of the cds: dawn, dusk, twilight, starlight) were tea time and something else.... it'll come to me later.... programmed the discs in my cd player to play the vinyl order (save side F, which is where both the bonus tracks were); kinda liked it better, sort of like the alternate suggested "original but not used" order on _Sgt Pepper._ ===== "I am so sorry that (Treasury Secretary Paul) O'Neill is upset by people who refer to the corporate aristocracy in this country as "robber barons." That _is_ rude, isn't it? Personally, I prefer to call them greedy bastards." --Molly Ivins Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 23:12:54 -0800 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: you'll see your simpsons...putting crimps in the crimson >From: Michael Wolfe > >I personally feel that the Simpsons is the best that >t.v. has to offer. I like the show, but I've never seen a single episode that could hold a candle to any of my favorite shows (none of which are on anymore, which helps me in my quest to waste my time only with interactive couch potato activities like video games). I have to say that Futurama has been a letdown as well -- funny, sharp, but not quite enough for me. >Maybe it's a failing of my own >imagination, maybe I don't run with the right crowd, but I can't >conceive of anyone whose first reaction to watching a marathon >t.v. session would be to compose a dissertation on his >experience. That's kind of a relief! [Capuchin:] >So fuck the information AFTER it's been created... I just wanted to take this sentence out of context. Thank you. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen.com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 23:29:33 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Quiz! Michael R Godwin wrote: > Anyway, my quiz league had a pair of Qs about the Beatles last week: > > What was the first Beatles single _not_ about love? > What was the final Beatles single? > > I've checked on the second question and the answer they gave was > definitely wrong (Ballad of John and Yoko). My 'Rock File 4' says > that the last UK single was 'Let it be' and the the last US single was > 'The long and winding road'. But what was the Beatles first 'non-love' > single? Their second release 'Please Please Me' doesn't have love in > the lyric. are we differentiating between LoveSongs and SexSongs. cuz "please please me" IS about trying to get a girl to blow you (clinton-gingrich definitions of sex not withstanding) and "Twist and shout" is about sex too (to refer to someone else's suggestion). otherwise, "Paperback Writer" looks right when i look through the billboard book here at work. and "Real Love" would definitely be the last. ===== "I am so sorry that (Treasury Secretary Paul) O'Neill is upset by people who refer to the corporate aristocracy in this country as "robber barons." That _is_ rude, isn't it? Personally, I prefer to call them greedy bastards." --Molly Ivins Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:09:18 +0200 From: "Noe Shalev" Subject: Re: US Copyright law > I'm not sure I understand what you mean here. Is it that copies can be > made so cheaply by anyone that there will be no profit possible and > therefore no incentive to make them? > copyright in common law countries, started out as a solution for an economic problem, originated in the invention of press printing. the ab ility to make copies made it nececary to protect the rights of pblishers and authors. The idea of press printing and later on sound recording was the combination of material property (hardware) and intelctual one (soft). It was indeed copies that counted as the resource. not any more, digital aproach should not treat copies as somthing to be count. resources now are width of conection, capcity or if you wosh no' of users or using time. note that at the begining in thease countris there was no limit on public performance, as opouse to continental law the right is copy right and not author right. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 11:16:13 EST From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: So much good music, so little time It's me again Margaret. Hehehe. I've been reading the posts, but I've been gone for awhile. I got super busy at work with my latest national spot, Karastan Sunwash rugs(finally up all over the country this week, hope you are de-programmed enough to withstand my powerful advertising influence!) I hope some of you see my new commercial cause I think it rocks!!!!!!! Anyway, I find the latest phase of the list quite interesting. But I must now get back to Napster to try to find the last bits of Robyn B-Sides that I don't own. I'd rather pay nobody than a used cd shop. By the way, the last Bunnymen EP has some greaaaat stuff on it. And the new World Party song Santa Barbara is breathtaking (Then again, I got my undergraduate degree at UC Santa Barbara, so I am biased). And and and the latest Stan Ridgway tune Beloved Movie Star is well..... ahhhhhhhhhh, if you're a fan, you just have to hear it!!!!!! SO much ood music in this world, so little time to hear it all. Peace and love, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:06:02 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: US Copyright law On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, Noe Shalev wrote: > copyright in common law countries, started out as a solution for an > economic problem, originated in the invention of press printing. the > ab ility to make copies made it nececary to protect the rights of > pblishers and authors. Woah... not quite. Read the Statutes of Queen Anne and the history behind them. These were the first copyright laws. They were clearly designed to promote the censorship of the crown. A good layman's history is here: > It was indeed copies that counted as the resource. not any more, > digital aproach should not treat copies as somthing to be count. > resources now are width of conection, capcity or if you wosh no' of > users or using time. Those are VERY different things. Bandwidth and capacity are finite resources (there are only so many fibers and so much bandwidth) that can be doled out or rented whereas number of users and user time are measures on the other end of the service... how much it's used for a particular purpose. It is sensible to have fees (if you're going to be in an even nominally capitalist society) associated with things that are finite and have real costs. It makes no sense to charge per user when a million users can be serviced at no more cost than one user. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:02:21 -0800 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: computer question Okay smart guys, I have files on a Powerbook 145 that I need to transfer to an iMac. Is there connector available? I haven't been able to find one. Beyond that is there a simple, inexpensive way to accomplish this? E-mail off list, please. - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 12:34:47 -0800 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: middle class hero extinct Argh! robynhitchcock.com is already out of that book. I don't suppose anyone ordered extra copies who would be willing to sell me one? :( Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen.com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:20:14 -0500 From: recount chocula Subject: Re: Cathode Ray Gub when we last left our heroes, Michael Wolfe exclaimed: >Maybe it's a failing of my own >imagination, maybe I don't run with the right crowd, but I can't >conceive of anyone whose first reaction to watching a marathon >t.v. session would be to compose a dissertation on his >experience. http://www.whoosh.org/ http://www.middleenglish.org/slayage/slayage1.htm +w ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 19:36:56 -0500 (EST) From: Rob Gronotte Subject: Re: US Copyright law While I don't want to spend much more time on this, just a few final thoughts: > While I don't think you're going to get it, Rob, I'm trying again. It's not that I don't get it, just that I disagree with you about some very basic things I guess. I have certainly enjoyed reading how you and others feel about it though. > Just remember WHY things get created... if it is truly useful or needed or > if an artist is truly compelled by his inner muse, it will be created with > or without patent and copyright. I don't doubt this is true in most cases. This doesn't mean I don't think the copyright should exist though. > > That is all open to interpretation. I don't feel that any existing > > copyright laws in any way limit freedom of the press. > > Clearly you don't think this is true without qualification. You think > that it doesn't limit a "legitimate" press. But copyright law is > SPEICIFICALLY a limitation to the freedom of the press. I think this is just a difference it what we think of as the definition of the word press. While I certainly see your point about press possibly menaing anything that is published, I think of "press" as meaning the distribution of news and opinion, and very little else. Don't typically think as even the same thing as something typically considered a creative art, which I tend to think of as being more of a product than the press. And while I don't know exactly whay the founding fathers intended, my guess is they were thinking more of newspapers than of anything else. > > A legitimate press does not consist of copies of previously published > > items. > > The entire purpose of the first amendment was to show that no law shall > ever try to make a distinction between "legitimate" and "illegitimate" > press. The press is sacrosanct, in that way. What is illegitimate today > may be the Holy Bible of tomorrow. That is true; but if it does happen, I hope the new religion will credit the person who first came up with the idea, not the person who merely copied it. > The interpretation of the commerce clause (as opposed to the copyright > clause of Article 1 Section 8) as a justification for copyright-style > legislation assumes that ideas are a commodity instead of ephemeral, > non-restricted, infinitely supplied and infinitely reproducable. It's a > false assumption from the get-go. Well, again, just is just a basic disagreement. I do consider ideas to be a commodity. And while ideas may have infinite supply, I don't believe that _good_ ideas necessarily do. > WRONG. I make money CREATING, not selling the fruits of my creativity. Again, I just don't see a valid distinction here. You do effectively sell the fruits of your creativity to your employer. What if you told them that starting tomorrow, you were going to write every program they asked you to do, but instead of handing it over to them (or publishing it in any other way), you were going to throw it away? Do you think they would still pay your salary? Rob Why don't you come up and surf me sometime? --> http://www.patriot.net/users/rob ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 01:07:56 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Pre-Show Meet-Ups woj choculated: > http://www.whoosh.org/ You know, I never watched Xena, but now that it's gone i sort of wish i had. There is something to be said for a show that does not take itself too seriously. Plus I was obligated to watch a little bit of "queen of swords" (a friend of mine was in a guest spot - she got top billing!), and let me tell you, THAT show makes Xena look like Shakespeare... Hey, we're meeting at Dave DeRosa's house before the 9:30 club soft boys gig. If anyone cares to suggest meeting times/places/bars for before other shows, i could compile them on a web page or something...? (Especially the first 5 east coast gigs as those are the ones that concern me ;) And in other news... does anyone actually like the new iMac patterns? To me they look gawd-awful.... what say you, Devout Ones? =b aka 1-dimensional cube ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V10 #71 *******************************