From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #371 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, December 18 2000 Volume 09 : Number 371 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Kicking Kristmas Ditties ["Brian Hoare" ] Re: george w bush, the font of all wisdom [Charles Gillett ] Re: george w bush, the font of all wisdom [Bayard ] Re: Jayhawks fans? [Tom Clark ] Re: george w bush, the font of all wisdom [steve ] Re: Jayhawks fans? [Eb ] Re: Jayhawks fans? [dmw ] Re: What have you done for me, lately? [grutness@surf4nix.com] Re: that was the year that was.../Jayhawks [grutness@surf4nix.com] Re: What have you done for me, lately? [steve ] [LIST...sorta] Amazon [Eb ] Re: cool christmas tunes [Michael R Godwin ] Re: that was the year that was... [Michael R Godwin ] Re: Kicking Kristmas Ditties [Dolph Chaney ] Replies comma various [The Great Quail ] Simpsarama [Christopher Gross ] Re: Jayhawks fans? [hbrandt ] FW: cool christmas tunes ["Thomas, Ferris" ] Re: that was the year that was... [Viv Lyon ] Re: Jayhawks fans? [hbrandt ] re: what have you done for me lately? ["Karen Reichstein" ] Re: that was the year that nothing changed [GSS ] Re: that was the year that something could change but didn't [GSS ] Re: that was the year that nothing changed [Viv Lyon Subject: Kicking Kristmas Ditties [demime could not interpret encoding binary - treating as plain text] I believe Jethro Tull's Another Christmas Song has been mentioned, but what I suggest that "Jack Frost and the Hooded Crow", from the bside of Coronach is superior. Is it available on CD? the single is getting a little worn. Brian - ------------------------------------------------------------ - --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:31:54 -0600 (CST) From: Charles Gillett Subject: Re: george w bush, the font of all wisdom great offwhite dude wrote: > Fegs, these are outputs of what passes for the mind of your new > president , tremble and live in great fear and loathing , for the > Bushylpse is surely nigh !!!!! > > "The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country." > ..George W. Bush, Jr. [etc.] I thought this list was funny eight years ago or so when all the quotations were attributed to Dan Quayle, but they just don't have the same impact when it's obvious they're phony. I'm so disillusioned. I expect my laffmeisters to do more research. George W. Bush, "Jr."? Quotations attributed to "Governer George W. Bush, Jr." dating from before he was elected governor (Nov. 1994)? Mostly I just don't like having to admit to myself that maybe Dan Quayle didn't say those stupid things, either. - -- Charles ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:03:41 -0500 From: mapslegends@juno.com Subject: Head Soft Boy...Hmmmnnnn >>- -rUss, wondering just when Matthew Seligman became the head Soft Boy? Russ, Me too! For wotever it's worth, I can't wait for the site and the tour and the output! m np ~ Rew/Waves CDR comp(Katrina and Otherwise) - Shock Horror - "Milk Train/Deux Chevaux"...just trying to psyche myself up! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 15:35:28 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: cool christmas tunes One I had forgotten about: "Merry Christmas From The Family" by Robert Earl Keen. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:39:35 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re: george w bush, the font of all wisdom > Mostly I just don't like having to admit to myself that maybe > Dan Quayle didn't say those stupid things, either. Many/most are actual Quayle quotes. http://www.snopes.com/quotes/quayle.htm As Letterman said, for all those who wondered what a Quayle presidency might have been like - we are perhaps about to get a taste of it. =b "quail sux!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:04:00 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Jayhawks fans? on 12/16/00 4:57 PM, Eb at ElBroome@earthlink.net wrote: > More generally, do you feel like the "alt.country" movement has peaked, or > is it still flourishing? > > Eb, who wishes he owned the Jayhawks' pre-Def American releases > Last week Coleen and I caught a show by original Jayhawk Mark Olson and his "Original Harmony Ridge Creekdippers", featuring Victoria Williams. I'm not sure I would classify their sound as alt.country though; I guess it's more Gram Parsons/Emmylou Harris, whatever you want to call that. Nonetheless, it was a great show. The new album is highly recommended. If anyone is interested in how Victoria is doing these days, we were chatting with her before the show and she seems to be really happy and well. She and Mark are married and living in Joshua Tree. That is all, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:24:08 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: george w bush, the font of all wisdom Charles Gillett: > I expect my laffmeisters to do more research. http://slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp Here you go. - - Steve __________ If they know our secrets, why can't we know theirs? - Dana Scully ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 16:26:07 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Jayhawks fans? >Last week Coleen and I caught a show by original Jayhawk Mark Olson and his >"Original Harmony Ridge Creekdippers", featuring Victoria Williams. I haven't heard *any* of the OHRC albums, and I wonder if I'm really missing out. Not discs which I'm likely to find in my used-bin browsings, and I haven't caught any songs on radio, either. Eb now trying to stomach: Cypress Hill/Live at the Fillmore ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 20:09:25 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: Jayhawks fans? i just had a thought about Eb's original question: my first (offlist) answer was that "holly" was emmylou harris (well, it's got a lot of the same letters!) and that the "lost in the desert" stuff was a reference to gram parsons' o.d.. Eb challenged me on the line about "broken engagements" and i waffled that i wasn't sure that every line could be taken literally, but that in combining brian wilson, alex chilton and gram parsons into one song, louris was giving a lyrical nod to what are arguably the three most audible influences in his songwriting, and everything but the name "holly" and the word "engagement" seemed to fit pretty well. that was enough for me -- i mean, i change little details and names and stuff all the time when i write songs, because some of them do have real-life-inspired bits in them, and i have a distinct interest in obfuscating exactly which bits are real, and which are less real. but another thought just occured: louris's ex bandie mark olson and his wife victoria williams are currently residing *in* Joshua Tree, California, the scene, if i remember right, of parsons' exit from the planet -- so maybe there's a second layer to the lyric with a dig at his former songwriting partner? pure speculation. i know nothing about how acrimonious the split was/wasn't. and to close the loop: i've heard all four creekdippers records. they're pleasant, relaxed, well played, produced without artifice -- about as far from slick and calculated as you can get. they're not packed with really memorable songs, though. - -- d. np magazine _maybe it's right to be nervous now_ - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:56:46 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com Subject: Re: What have you done for me, lately? Eb wrote: >Due since 1995: LAURIE ANDERSON (album coming shortly, I believe), Bandit >Queen (dead band?), Ruby (dead band?), Simon Bonney (retired?), the Bats >(dead band?). and >Due since 1996: WEEZER, THE BUTTHOLE SURFERS, SUZANNE VEGA, the Wrens >(though I believe they self-released an album on cassette, later), the >Chills (rarities comps don't really count), the Clean (dead band?), the >Golden Palominos, the Blue Nile, Sam Phillips, Scott Johnson, Gavin Friday, >Mazzy Star. The Bats and Clean, as always, are alternating. Robert Scott divides his time between three bands - I think the coming year may be a Bats one. Anyway, there is a best of the Bats out a couple of months back with some rare stuff on it, to fill in the gap. As for the Chills, I've been assured there is more material on its way after the rarities set is finished, and you forget that Martin Phillipps put out a solo album in 1999 as well. You're right about Laurie Anderson and Suzanne Vega keeping us waiting, and Sam Phillips, too. In SV's case, I wonder if her recent marital problems have slowed the output down, considering that her husband was also her producer. As for Kate Bush, I'm not holding my breath for more from her, sadly. I suspect we've seen the lot. And Danielle Dax? THERE's someone I'd like to see more from! >XTC-"Thanks For Christmas" has been mentioned, but "Snowman" also has that >holiday feel. yeah, but Summer's Cauldron is so much more Christmassy ;) James (basking in 28C/80F of sunshine) James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:19:13 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com Subject: Re: that was the year that was.../Jayhawks >What's really surreal now is that all the big media outlets are talking >about how we've got to "reform" the system by having everyone buy >new voting machines! In other words, they want US taxpayers to blow >zillions on some sort of marginal-at-best hardware improvement, when >we could easily solve the entire problem at almost no cost whatsoever >with a simple amendment. Is there anywhere else in the world thazt uses this sort or weird voting system? Everywhere else I can think of just gets voters to tick or put a cross next to the candidate's name using a pen. That way it's very clear who was voted for, and if the voter makes a mistake, they can block it out and put another tick or cross in the right place. >I'm listening to "Mr. Wilson," off the (kinda lackluster and calculated) >new Jayhawks album, Smile. > >The first and second verses *seem* to be about Brian Wilson and Alex Chilton: I know this is an extreme stretch, but for some reason every time I read these lyrics I keep thinking about the movie "Raising Arizona" - two of the lead actors were Holly Hunter and Trey Wilson... You're probably more on track with your interpretation, but I thought I'd throw that into the mix to see if anyone else has any ideas. James James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:14:22 -0600 From: steve Subject: Re: What have you done for me, lately? grutness@surf4nix.com: >As for Kate Bush, I'm not holding my breath for more from her, sadly. I >suspect we've seen the lot. I thought she was working on a new album, although slowly. Ectophiles? - - Steve __________ Take her to the Pitt! Go, Bigboote. Use more honey! Find out what she knows. - Lord John Whorfin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:15:56 -0700 From: Eb Subject: [LIST...sorta] Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/music/misc/2000-best-1-100.html/107-9941179-1012501 The Amazon editors have picked their top 100 albums of 2000...a typically conservative list. They always lean so heavily toward old-time bluesy/folksy/rootsy stuff, but...here are the Eb-endorsed albums on the list: 1. Jurassic 5 5. PJ Harvey 15. Neil Young [Silver & Gold] 16. Marc Ribot 24. Bjork 25. Yo La Tengo 30. The Go-Betweens 33. Eels 42. Sinead O'Connor 49. Sleater-Kinney 52. Mouse on Mars 58. Amy Correia (aha!) 59. Billy Bragg & Wilco 60. XTC 62. Badly Drawn Boy Check the link if you want to see more. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:50:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: cool christmas tunes I've had Shakin' Stevens' "Merry Christmas Everyone" going through my head for days. - Mike Godwin PS I must get the hi-fi set up in the new house and play some of these boxes of LPs which I haven't looked at for ages. _Two_ Long Ryders albums, frinstance (I didn't know I even had one) ... Judy Henske and Jerry Yester ... Shakin' Street ... Clear Light ... loads of MC5 ... Mike Hart ... Liverpool Scene ... Soft Machine ... stacks of Hendrix ... Lloyd Cole etc. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:11:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: that was the year that was... On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, JH3 wrote: > What's really surreal now is that all the big media outlets are talking > about how we've got to "reform" the system by having everyone buy > new voting machines! I'm with James on this - why not use a pencil and paper like other countries do? And why does it take so long to do manual recounts? UK General Election votes are manually counted, usually including three or four constitutency recounts, and they almost all - 24 million votes - get done within 18 hours. The only exceptions are where ballot boxes have to be shipped across from the Scottish Islands, which can take a couple of days. - - Mike Godwin n.p. Howlin' Wolf - "Highway 49" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:40:51 -0600 From: Dolph Chaney Subject: Re: Kicking Kristmas Ditties At 12:15 PM 12/17/00 -0800, Brian Hoare wrote: >[demime could not interpret encoding binary - treating as plain text] >I believe Jethro Tull's Another Christmas Song has been mentioned, but >what I suggest that > > "Jack Frost and the Hooded Crow", from the bside of Coronach is superior. > >Is it available on CD? the single is getting a little worn. Yes, in the 20 YEARS OF JETHRO TULL 3CD box. dolph who is moving to Chicago ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:46:39 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Replies comma various >Due since 1995: LAURIE ANDERSON That really is odd -- she did that whole Moby Dick thing, but it hasn't been released yet! I assume it took her at least two years. Maybe she's been too busy yelling at Lou. And as far as Overdue Artists That Don't Include Rush, What about the Moody Blues? They haven't released anything since "The Present," and that was over sixteen years ago.... (Insert nervous, denial-based laughter.....) >Rock is dead, they say I must confess, I think it's amusing that people who probably haven't been around since 1955 are lamenting the lack of rebellion in an art form that's half a century old. I think Drew had some pretty good comments on this one -- it's all about context. Not to mention the fact that the commercial universe has hijacked images of "safe rebellion" in almost all its forms in order to sell shoes and tacos and soda. >Simpsons Last night's "Snowed-in" episode was, in my opinion, one of the FUNNIEST episodes in the last few years. In fact, I almost thought I was watching a long-lost episode from the O'Brien Days. I think Chris is right about the whole prelude/story integration thing -- they have always done it, it's was just done a lot more skillfully in the past. I remember thinking even during the first season that the first five minutes of a Simpson's episode was amazingly distanced from the last.... For instance -- Homer gets Marge a bowling ball and it leads to an affair.... That sort of thing. I think this season is really going for broke in the "self-aware" category. There's been a few endings that just consciously cut-off, or ended outside the universe of possible Springfield continuity. I wrote a long past last year about how I hoped the series would end -- I do think it has almost exhausted itself -- but one think that would kill me is if they finally updated the opening credits for the final episode only.... And where was Futurama???? I needed my Zoidberg fix! I can only pray for the day that brings me a Simpsons/Futurama Crossover Event -- just seeing Dr. Zoidberg strolling through the Springfield Squid Port would be worth my first born. - --Quail, another Hawkwind fan that gives "Kid A" the Sonic Attack Seal of Approval - -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history." --Vice President Dan Quayle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:35:08 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Simpsarama On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, The Great Quail wrote: > >Simpsons > > Last night's "Snowed-in" episode was, in my opinion, one of the > FUNNIEST episodes in the last few years. In fact, I almost thought I > was watching a long-lost episode from the O'Brien Days. Eh (note the cool Eb reference!), I thought it had a lot of great jokes, but they were all attached to a rather thinner plot than we would have had in the good old days. But it wasn't a bad episode, and of course even a bad episode of the Simpsons is better than a good episode of most sitcoms. I was (pleasantly?) surprised that it wasn't more explicitly Christmassy. > I think Chris is right -- Woohoo! > And where was Futurama???? I needed my Zoidberg fix! Yeah! What's up with that? I was wondering if Fox decided to move it to the popular 3 pm time slot or something. Call me paranoid, but I suspect high-level Fox executives are bitterly divided over Futurama, so they compromise by keeping the show but constantly preempting it and moving it to earlier and earlier time slots. (I also suspect that communist robots are stealing my luggage.) - --Chris, who heard part of Kid A for the first time Saturday ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:01:01 -0700 From: hbrandt Subject: Re: Jayhawks fans? dmw wrote: > and to close the loop: i've heard all four creekdippers records. they're > pleasant, relaxed, well played, produced without artifice -- about as far > from slick and calculated as you can get. they're not packed with really > memorable songs, though. Let's face it...Victoria is the real talent. I've seen her solo and with the Creekdippers. The audience was simply polite during Mark's songs, but enraptured by Vic. Put "Graveyard Song" up against anything that her hubby has written (for instance). He sometimes seems frustrated by this fact even though she is as giving to his songs as can be. Mark should really concede to his wife's gift and be content to back her up rather than waste her in his vanity trip (The Creekdippers). /hal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:58:15 -0500 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: FW: cool christmas tunes Also: "Step Into Christmas" by the Business. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:48:35 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: Jayhawks fans? On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, hbrandt wrote: > Let's face it...Victoria is the real talent. I've seen her solo and with > the Creekdippers. The audience was simply polite during Mark's songs, > but enraptured by Vic. Put "Graveyard Song" up against anything that her > hubby has written (for instance). He sometimes seems frustrated by this > fact even though she is as giving to his songs as can be. Mark should > really concede to his wife's gift and be content to back her up rather > than waste her in his vanity trip (The Creekdippers). uhm. that sounds a little harsh. why not presume that vic enjoys playing the creekdippers material as well as her own compositions? and it's not like her involvement in the creekdippers has supplanted her independent recording career...she's had two full albums out since the start of the other project. - -- d. np magazine _maybe it's right to be nervous now_ - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 08:58:52 -0800 (PST) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: that was the year that was... On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, JH3 wrote: > [OK, maybe it isn't really *surreal*, at least not in the Salvador Dali/ > Andre Breton sense. I guess a better word would be "comical"...] > > Is it just possible that the folks who are behind this suggestion are the > same folks who run the GIGANTIC MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS > that build and sell voting machines? Sorry, I stopped listening when you said "surreal." I think it's fairly easy to determine who's behind this... the major parties don't want _real_ election reform, and so they propose these phony half-way measures that are supposed to lull an already complacent population into yet further complacency. "Oh, it's all taken care of now.... my vote will get counted next time...." Inauguration day will wake some people up, if nothing has yet. When was the last time we had massive protests at a presidential inauguration? Vivien ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:36:40 -0700 From: hbrandt Subject: Re: Jayhawks fans? dmw wrote: > why not presume that vic enjoys playing > the creekdippers material as well as her own compositions? I didn't presume otherwise. He's her husband. I assume she likes playing with him and possibly even thinks he's the world's greatest gift to music. She may love deferring to him. She may spend lots of time telling him that he's underappreciated. I already said that she is as giving as can be in a live situation to Mark's songs. I'm just of the opinion that her stuff is far superior and is what brings people to the shows. At the two Creekdipper concerts I attended, Vic was the one the audience was there to see. Mark's songs merely got a polite response. At one show, he was visibly frustrated and went as far as to embarass Vic onstage by sulking and telling her to play "Crazy Mary". He should be proud of her rather than having some artistic rivalry ala Buckingham/Nicks (at least Buckingham had a reason i.e. Talent.) /hal ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:40:20 -0800 From: "Karen Reichstein" Subject: re: what have you done for me lately? Eb wrote: >In the past year or two, several notoriously "dormant" artists >finally >released new albums. Names like Peter Gabriel [...] Peter Gabriel released an album? I didn't know this. I do know he's been working on his album UP (?) for, oh, about EIGHT years now. Or are you referring to OVO, his Millennium Dome soundtrack extravaganza? _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 18:53:39 -0000 From: "Rob" Subject: re: what have you done for me lately? Eb mentioned World Party in his list of bands. Assuming Eb wasn't talking about a different World Party, Dumbing Up has obviously failed to make an impact anywhere in the world. I think it was released in August (over here anyway). I don't have a copy so can't comment on whether or not it's any good. - -- Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:02:31 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: Re: that was the year that nothing changed > I think it's fairly easy to determine who's behind this... the major > parties don't want _real_ election reform, and so they propose these Exactly, that is why McCain is not president. But would that have been much different? Closed borders, the death penalty, the war on drugs, build more highways, build more prisons, build more bombs, what the hell is the difference? Campaign finance reform is the only thing I think McCain had above the rest. The first thing we should do is demand term limits for all elected officals at the federal, state and local level. And NO judge should be appointed, they should all be elected for a limited term, especially to the Supreme Court. And all those other appointed positions should change to being elected, from the Attorney General on down. Or we could scrap elections completely and switch to manditory civil servitude on every level, but this is really complicated and would take a huge effort on everyone's part, so I don't think it will ever fly, but I think it is my best idea. bush = republican = shit = democrat = gore It is a vicious circle. > Inauguration day will wake some people up, if nothing has yet. When was > the last time we had massive protests at a presidential inauguration? To me, the disappointing part is that most of those people will be complacent sheep protesting what they have been told to protest, which is the election of a Republican, though that is not the real problem. If there are just 3 electoral defectors, Gore will be elected and then there will be mass protests at his inauguration. Just a different hat on the same head. gss np-nothing nr-bank statement nf-depressed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:15:44 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: Re: that was the year that something could change but didn't Wouldn't it be funny if there were 3 electoral defectors? Not that Gore would be any better or worse, but that all the effort that has gone into the Bush transition would be for nothing. They'd have to give back the keys to transition office. And what if Bush has spent the entire 5 million or even part of it, what then? What a fucking riot that would be. gss ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:23:25 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: that was the year that was... >Is there anywhere else in the world thazt uses this sort or weird >voting system? Everywhere else I can think of just gets voters to >tick or put a cross next to the candidate's name using a pen. That >way it's very clear who was voted for, and if the voter makes a >mistake, they can block it out and put another tick or cross in the >right place. Personally, I don't think there's anything "weird" about the use of punch-card readers, or machines in general, to count votes - unless you think (as I do, I'll admit) that Americans are weird for insisting on getting election results almost instantaneously. There's actually a wide variety of voting hardware in use here, including manually- counted paper-only setups. What I was trying to say was that the machines aren't the problem - even if the Florida "undervote" recounts (to be executed by local newpapers within the next few weeks) indicate that Gore should've won, it'll still be well within the margin of error producable by almost any counting system imaginable. To me, the "weird" thing is that we basically have a system that completely discards our votes if we should ever be so silly as to prefer the candidate who doesn't win in the individual state where we happen to be voting. Instead, such votes are all proxied in favor of the other guy! And nobody ever does anything about it... >Sorry, I stopped listening when you said "surreal." Hey, no fair! "Surreal" is just an adjective! "Resonate" is a verb, and "GIGANTIC MULTINATIONAL CORPORATIONS" is a noun phrase, making them both vastly more of a turn-off when used in a sentence... >I think it's fairly easy to determine who's behind this... the major >parties don't want _real_ election reform, and so they propose these >phony half-way measures that are supposed to lull an already >complacent population into yet further complacency. "Oh, it's all >taken care of now.... my vote will get counted next time...." And yet *both* major parties are harmed by the current system - the Democrats because they tend to pursue a "big state" strategy that's more likely to lead to an electoral "inversion" in the other party's favor, and the Republicans because their biggest base of support is in the Western time zones, where voters could (if they cared enough) turn out late on election day to counteract a Democrat lead in the east, *if* the election hadn't already been decided by then due to the winner-take-all nature of the system. If you're referring to the myth that the Electoral College tends to discourage third parties, that's all it is - a myth. It actually encourages third parties beyond all proportion if they're capable of carrying even one state. For example, if everyone in D.C. had voted for a Statehood candidate this year, the election would have been turned over to Congress on the basis of just three "missing" electoral votes. (And D.C. might have actually gotten statehood out of the deal, ironically enough, just to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Who knows?) Perhaps this just further indicates that Democrats and Republicans really *are* all morons, just like GSS says. (However, that doesn't mean I'd necessarily want to have sex with them.) John "ask Mr. Democracy" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 11:32:48 -0800 (PST) From: Viv Lyon Subject: Re: that was the year that nothing changed On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, GSS wrote: > The first thing we should do is demand term limits for all elected > officals at the federal, state and local level. And NO judge should be > appointed, they should all be elected for a limited term, especially > to the Supreme Court. I don't agree that that's the first thing that should be done (for me, it's public financing of elections coupled with runoff voting), but it's vital. The way judges are installed for life is just reprehensible and archaic. > bush = republican = shit = democrat = gore > > It is a vicious circle. That is one of the fundamental problems, yes. > To me, the disappointing part is that most of those people will be > complacent sheep protesting what they have been told to protest, which is > the election of a Republican, though that is not the real problem. If > there are just 3 electoral defectors, Gore will be elected and then there > will be mass protests at his inauguration. Just a different hat on the > same head. I agree, I'm a little conflicted (I mean, even if the _election_ had been conducted cleanly and fairly, the election process was still an insulting, rigged, scripted debacle on its own). Nevertheless, we have a stolen election that deserves to be strenuously protested. If some of the people are just protesting the loss of their candidate, so be it. Much though I revile Gore, he did win the most votes. When the outright theft of elections ceases to bother you, then you know you've got a problem. You may as well just admit that you don't mind living in an oligarchy. Vivien ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #371 *******************************