From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #360 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, December 7 2000 Volume 09 : Number 360 Today's Subjects: ----------------- soft boys reunion billboard article [drop the holupki ] Re: soft boys reunion billboard article [Ken Ostrander ] Re: and the winner is... ["JH3" ] Re: soft boys reunion billboard article ["Chris Gillis!" ] butter that skillet [GSS ] Drop the mike and move to the riser at the back of the stage please! [Gle] Leave the poor horse alone, I say ["JH3" ] Re: keegan all over the world [Tom Clark ] Re: soft boys reunion billboard article [Ken Ostrander ] Lorna Doone, Queen Bufu Dune Messiah of Dune, Buggy of Dune Buggy Dune Dune Dune, please pass me the head of The Great "Who The Hell is Allen B. Ruch?" Quail [] Re: butter that skillet [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: bend over, everyone [Eleanore Adams ] end of year lists ["jbranscombe@compuserve.com" ] reep [Bayard ] Re: butter that skillet [GSS ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 12:52:04 -0500 From: drop the holupki Subject: soft boys reunion billboard article Soft Boys To Reunite For North American Tour Seminal U.K. pop outfit Soft Boys will reunite for a North American tour in March, and will see their revered 1980 album "Underwater Moonlight" reissued March 13 on Matador. The band -- guitarist/vocalist Robyn Hitchcock, guitarist Kimberley Rew, bassist Matthew Seligman, and drummer Morris Windsor -- split in 1981 after just two studio albums, but has proved enormously influential in the years since. Matador's reissue of "Underwater Moonlight" will be augmented by the non-album single "He's A Reptile" and a bonus album of previously unreleased rehearsal sessions dating from 1979-80. The new version will also be released on vinyl for the first time since its original issue. "Underwater Moonlight" was reissued on Rykodisc in 1992 but has been out of print for some time. Dates for the tour are still being finalized, but it will kick off March 16 with a special Matador showcase at the South By Southwest music festival. Ex-Pavement frontman Stephen Malkmus and Scottish instrumentalists Mogwai are also expected to be on the bill. Hitchcock has been the most prolific of the former Soft Boys members, having released some 15 solo albums since the mid-'70s. His most recent Warner Bros. album, "Jewels For Sophia," was released last year. - -- Jonathan Cohen, N.Y. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:38:48 -0500 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: soft boys reunion billboard article >Matador's reissue of "Underwater Moonlight" will be augmented by the >non-album single "He's A Reptile" what about 'invisible hits'? >Dates for the tour are still being finalized, but it will kick off March 16 >with a special Matador showcase at the South By Southwest music festival. >Ex-Pavement frontman Stephen Malkmus and Scottish instrumentalists Mogwai >are also expected to be on the bill. pavement has not broken up yet; although there are members who want to start families. have they made enough money to just live off the royalties? isn't it the touring schedule that really takes them away, not the recording? >Hitchcock has been the most prolific of the former Soft Boys members, >having released some 15 solo albums since the mid-'70s. His most recent >Warner Bros. album, "Jewels For Sophia," was released last year. thanks for not mentioning 'a star for bram'. ken "what's your take on cassavettes?" the kenster np le tigre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:40:47 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: and the winner is... >http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/uk/newsid_1057000/1057660.stm Personally, I don't think this statement is all *that* baffling: "I think that Clueless was very deep. I think it was deep in the way that it was very light... I think lightness has to come from a very deep place if it's true lightness." Essentially what she's trying to say is that there are cases where, in order to say or do something profound or meaningful, it's actually necessary to put it in terms that are silly or whimsical. Clueless was basically about the inherently ridiculous nature of education for the children of super-rich parents. They obviously don't *need* a real education because they're already set for life, right? It also dealt with the almost equally ridiculous nature of social interaction between super-rich and (relatively) poor adolescents in public schools; the point being that rather than simply *accept* poorer kids as equals, they try to change them, to make them seem more like themselves. Obviously on the second point they're just borrowing from Austen, but in reality this is only being used as a plot device to give the fimmakers a "canvas" on which to make their (far more important) first point. Regardless, they're using comedy to make pointed observations about the nature of wealth in society, and especially adolescent society, and what's more, the comedy *itself* is part of the point -- which is what Alicia is trying to say here, IMO. Of course, I'm not saying it's a particularly erudite statement or anything. I just figure she makes reasonably good frying pans, so why get on her case? I mean, have you ever tried frying an egg in an iron skillet? Or *any* kind of uncoated pan, for that matter? Sheeeeeez! What a mess. John H. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 10:50:36 -0800 From: "Chris Gillis!" Subject: Re: soft boys reunion billboard article > pavement has not broken up yet; Bzzzz. Wrong answer. This was (somewhat officially) announced by Steve M. in an NME interview a week or so ago. It has been common knowledge for a couple years that five albums with Matador was it for the band. Or so those sources close to the band say... > although there are members who want to start > families. have they made enough money to just live off the royalties? Song writing credits make the difference. All members have hoems and that now, but the royalties over the years will help certain frontmen rather than, say, drummers. .chris - -- chris@photogenica.net http://photogenica.net - -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:52:39 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: bend over, everyone Kamal Ahmed, political editor Sunday December 3, 2000 Britain's intelligence services are seeking powers to seize all records of telephone calls, emails and internet connections made by every person living in this country. A document circulated to Home Office officials and obtained by The Observer reveals that MI5, MI6 and the police are demanding new legislation to log every phone call made in this country and store the information for seven years at a vast government-run 'data warehouse', a super computer that will hold the information. The secret moves, which will cost millions of pounds, were last night condemned by politicians and campaigners as a sinister expansion of 'Big Brother' state powers and a fundamental attack on the public's right to privacy. Last night, the Home Office admitted that it was giving the plans serious consideration. Lord Cope, the Conservative peer and a leading expert on privacy issues, said: 'We are sympathetic to the need for greater powers to fight modern types of crime. But vast banks of information on every member of the public can quickly slip into the world of Big Brother. I will be asking serious questions about this.' Maurice Frankel, a leading campaigner on per sonal data issues, called the powers 'sweeping' and a cause for worry. The document, which is classified 'restricted', says new laws are needed to allow the intelligence services, Customs and Excise and the police access to telephone and computer records of every member of the public. It suggests that the Home Office is sympathetic to the new powers, which would be used to tackle the growing problems of cybercrime, the use of computers by paedophiles to run child pornography rings, as well as terrorism and international drug trafficking. Every telephone call made and received by a member of the public, all emails sent and received and every web page looked at would be recorded. Calls made on mobile phones can already be pinpointed geographically, as can those made from land lines. The police would be able to use 'trawling' computer techniques to look through millions of telephone and email records. Campaigners say innocent people could have such highly personal information accessed. The document admits the moves are controversial and could clash with the Human Rights Act, which gives people a right to privacy, European Union law and the Data Protection Act, which protects the public against official intrusion into private lives. The office of the Data Protection Commissioner, Elizabeth France, has already expressed 'grave concerns' . 'A clear legislative framework needs to be agreed as a matter of urgency,' says the document, which is dated 10 August and is thought to have been sent to Home Office Minister Charles Clarke. 'Why should data be retained? In the interests of justice, to preserve and protect data for use as evidence to establish proof of innocence or guilt. For intelligence and evidence gathering purposes, to maintain the effectiveness of UK law enforcement, intelligence and security agencies to protect society.' The document is written by Roger Gaspar, the deputy director-general of the National Criminal Intelligence Service, the Government agency that oversees criminal intelligence in the United Kingdom. Gaspar, as head of intelligence for NCIS, is one of the most powerful and influential men in the field. The report says it is written 'on behalf of Acpo [the Association of Chief Police Officers], HM Customs and Excise, security service, secret intelligence service and GCHQ [the Government's secret listening centre based at Cheltenham]'. Gaspar argues telephone companies should be ordered to retain all records of phone calls and internet access. At the moment many telephone and internet service providers keep data for as little as 24 hours. 'In the interests of verifying the accuracy of data specifically provided for either intelligence or evidential purposes, CSPs [communication service providers such as telephone or internet companies] should be under an obligation to retain the original data supplied for a period of seven years or for as long as the prosecuting authority directs,' the document says. 'Informal discussions have taken place with the office of the data protection commissioner. Whilst they acknowledge that such communications data may be of value to the work of the agencies and the interests of justice they have grave reservations about longer term data retention.' The document says the new data warehouse would be run along similar lines to the National DNA Database for profiles of known criminals. It would cost about #3 million to set up and #9m a year to run. The report demands that the Government 'should be prepared to defend our position'. A spokesman for NCIS refused to be drawn on the report. 'I am not going to comment on a classified document that is in unauthorised hands,' he said. Meanwhile a Home Office spokesman said it had received the proposals and was considering them. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,406191,00.html http://cryptome.org/ncis-carnivore.htm http://www.observer.co.uk/leaders/story/0,6903,406160,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:22:43 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: butter that skillet > I mean, have you ever tried frying an egg in an iron skillet? People have been doing that for centuries. Man, I use nothing but uncoated skillets. That is why we have butter and save bacon grease, or at least one of the reasons. gss np - ripple, grateful dead ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 11:39:27 -0800 (PST) From: Glen Uber Subject: Drop the mike and move to the riser at the back of the stage please! On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Chris Gillis! wrote: >Song writing credits make the difference. All members have hoems and >that now, but the royalties over the years will help certain frontmen >rather than, say, drummers. Unless the drummer happens to be a frontman and/or songwriter, ie Phil Collins, Don Henley, Stewart Copeland, Dave Grohl, Dave Clark, Gary Lewis, Ring Starr, Lars Ulrich or Neil Peart. Cheers! - -g- "Ha! Like anyone would deign to drink tap water? I ask you, do you drink tap water? Do you? The only water I drink comes from the supermarket. And it's laced with hops." --Mike Jasper +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Glen Uber uberg (at) sonic dot net http://www.sonic.net/~uberg Santa Rosa, California ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:40:51 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Leave the poor horse alone, I say >>I must apologize. I let your ugly smugness get the best of me and >>I let a bit of anger into the tone of my last piece. If you lack the >>sensitivity to see your own condescension, I shouldn't take it out >>on you. I feel sorry for you... >This is the funniest thing I've *red* in a while. >You'll do well in Hollywood, Blatzy - after all, chutzpah is certainly >one of the prequisites...and self-awareness seems in very short >supply in your chosen biz... Personally, I think Dave's use of modern "cyber-argument" technique in this thread is nothing short of BRILLIANT. The way he's employed the so-called "Parallax Ploy" - in this case, constantly hammering away at the barely-relevant point that it's theoretically possible for an individual film to ultimately lose money even though this has long-since been conceded, and ignoring the actual point of the argument, namely that the industry as a whole shouldn't have to be allowed to extend all their copyrights indefinitely to remain profitable - has been *pure textbook*! And his stunning use of personal invective has been magnificent, especially in the way he's used the commonly-held perception of "Crappy" as a "self-righteous know-it-all" to dismiss his statements without ever actually responding to them, even though in this case Jeme has no tangible incentive whatsoever to take the position he's taken. In effect, he's using the obvious fact of his *own* financial incentive to defend the film industry to his advantage by shrewedly painting himself as a potential victim! It's astoundingly clever! And as if that wasn't enough, his use of the latest "contrarian logic" debate techniques in claiming that overall industry revenue-source percentages automatically mean that a film that fails to make more than 25% of its earnings from box-office will lose money - in spite of the obvious contrary evidence supplied by the porn industry, among others - shows that Dave is clearly head and shoulders above the rest of us in his use of the Internet as a political medium. A tour-de-force performance! BRAVO! However, I do think Dave's little gag of sending us a faked message from Eb stating that Jeme was "out of his depth," while technically flawless, was just too obvious for me. Everyone knows that Eb would *never* defend the movie industry without a justifiable reason, or try to make someone else on the list look foolish just for having disagreed with him in some earlier argument. Finally, I just want to say that I think it's rather ironic and sad that the bill Dave and his movie-industry friends want passed is named after Sonny Bono - a man the film industry had practically no use for whatsoever while he was alive, merely because of a piddling little thing like his complete lack of acting ability. What's next, the "Jayne Mansfield Breast Implant Relief Act"? How about the "Pat Sajak Late Night Broadcasting Act"? Or (dare I say it?) the "Robyn Hitchcock Obligatory List-Posting Mentions Act"? Yours truly, - -The John Hedges Failure to Include Between-Name Quotes Act PS. Soft Boys reunion? Hmmm... Interesting. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:59:51 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: keegan all over the world on 12/6/00 4:52 PM, GSS at gshell@metronet.com wrote: > I got ants in my pants for the SXSW show. I hope they let me record > through the mixer or get a good mic position or even let me record period. > I would hate to have to go recon-ish/undecover/play hide-the-mic, cause then > the recording and media would move to sub-standard. I would assume this event, or perhaps even the whole tour, will be well documented by RH's people. On a related note, anybody know the status of the Grant Lee Hitchcock tour film? - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 15:45:40 -0500 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: soft boys reunion billboard article have tix gone on sale for s x sw? do we have any other venues or dates for the tour? by the way, i will not be evicted this month. my new landlord will be doubling my rent; but, since it's dirt cheap right now, that won't be too bad; as long as he fixes the leaking roof. anyway, my point is that people could crash at my place whenever the tour comes to boston. >> pavement has not broken up yet; > >Bzzzz. Wrong answer. This was (somewhat officially) announced by Steve >M. in an NME interview a week or so ago. It has been common knowledge >for a couple years that five albums with Matador was it for the band. >Or so those sources close to the band say... i guess i should've stuck with the boob thread. >> although there are members who want to start >> families. have they made enough money to just live off the royalties? > >Song writing credits make the difference. All members have hoems and >that now, but the royalties over the years will help certain frontmen >rather than, say, drummers. which is why ringo is the only beatle doing commercials. ken "making love out of noting at all" the kenster np yo la tengo president yo la tengo / new wave hot dogs ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 12:44:52 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Lorna Doone, Queen Bufu Dune Messiah of Dune, Buggy of Dune Buggy Dune Dune Dune, please pass me the head of The Great "Who The Hell is Allen B. Ruch?" Quail I feel the need to come clean here. Apparently I have some dreadful dysfunction that makes the visual Dune dust almost impossible for me to ingest. I laughed when I saw the suggestion of 4- and 8-hour versions of the Lynch Dune. The one I saw in the theatre must have been eight WEEKS long. When the movie appeared on SciFi (or the Comedy Chanel) this year I had to change the station. How many times can they say, "Is he the one that is the one who could be the one who is he, the one who is he, the one?" That stuff just makes me crazy- especially when they felt they had to do it every three minutes! Spice! It must be rare, as the movie was so painfully bland. The new TV thing doesn't grab me, but it might have done better with me if I had been watching since the beginning. I fear that I wouldn't have the stamina to hang with the slow plot, even with the visuals, tho. I read the first Dune, Dune, Dune of Dune book, but couldn't get through the rest. As I have the greatest respect for Allen B. Dune Ruch, Great Dune Quail of Dune, it is obvious that my opinion on this is tainted by my attention span or the possibility that my last living brain cell can't get its weak little synapse around such brilliance. One other possibility is that it doth blow and other persons are simply confused: but I'm sure that that notion is mightily far-fetched. RE: Loverboy: Maybe there will be no more "Pig and Elephant DNA Just Won't Splice" and "Turd me Lose" ditties. Hope this brightens your corner of the world, which last I looked was spherical. Happies, - -Markg Turn me loose, - -Markg PLANET PROJECT will connect millions of people worldwide through the combined technology of 3Com and the Internet. Find out more and register now at http://www.planetproject.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 14:12:34 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: butter that skillet GSS wrote: > > I mean, have you ever tried frying an egg in an iron skillet? > > People have been doing that for centuries. Man, I use nothing but > uncoated skillets. That is why we have butter and save bacon grease, > or at least one of the reasons. but if you use butter or bacon grease or Pam or whatever, you ARE coating the skillet; you are merely using a skillet that is not pre-coasted with teflon or whatever. ===== "The public have an insatiable curiosity to know everything, except what is worth knowing. Journalists, conscious of this, and having tradesman-like habits, supplies their demands." -- Oscar Wilde Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Dec 2000 11:51:04 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: bend over, everyone Does England not have rights similar to the U.S. 5th and 14th am due process rights, which include implied rights to privacy? Just curious if you guys ever spelled this out.... (not that we over here dont have those rights violated all of the time by the govt, as well as a number of our population, non-govt, are always exposing/spying themselves/us willingly, i.e. selling marketing info on us etc...) - -eleanore GSS wrote: > Kamal Ahmed, political editor > Sunday December 3, 2000 > > Britain's intelligence services are seeking > powers to seize all records of telephone > calls, emails and internet connections > made by every person living in this > country. > > A document circulated to Home Office > officials and obtained by The Observer > reveals that MI5, MI6 and the police are > demanding new legislation to log every > phone call made in this country and store > the information for seven years at a vast > government-run 'data warehouse', a super > computer that will hold the information. > > The secret moves, which will cost millions > of pounds, were last night condemned by > politicians and campaigners as a sinister > expansion of 'Big Brother' state powers > and a fundamental attack on the public's > right to privacy. > > Last night, the Home Office admitted that > it was giving the plans serious > consideration. > > Lord Cope, the Conservative peer and a > leading expert on privacy issues, said: > 'We are sympathetic to the need for > greater powers to fight modern types of > crime. But vast banks of information on > every member of the public can quickly > slip into the world of Big Brother. I will be > asking serious questions about this.' > Maurice Frankel, a leading campaigner on > per sonal data issues, called the powers > 'sweeping' and a cause for worry. > > The document, which is classified > 'restricted', says new laws are needed to > allow the intelligence services, Customs > and Excise and the police access to > telephone and computer records of every > member of the public. > > It suggests that the Home Office is > sympathetic to the new powers, which > would be used to tackle the growing > problems of cybercrime, the use of > computers by paedophiles to run child > pornography rings, as well as terrorism > and international drug trafficking. > > Every telephone call made and received > by a member of the public, all emails sent > and received and every web page looked > at would be recorded. > > Calls made on mobile phones can already > be pinpointed geographically, as can > those made from land lines. The police > would be able to use 'trawling' computer > techniques to look through millions of > telephone and email records. > Campaigners say innocent people could > have such highly personal information > accessed. > > The document admits the moves are > controversial and could clash with the > Human Rights Act, which gives people a > right to privacy, European Union law and > the Data Protection Act, which protects > the public against official intrusion into > private lives. > > The office of the Data Protection > Commissioner, Elizabeth France, has > already expressed 'grave concerns' . > > 'A clear legislative framework needs to be > agreed as a matter of urgency,' says the > document, which is dated 10 August and > is thought to have been sent to Home > Office Minister Charles Clarke. > > 'Why should data be retained? In the > interests of justice, to preserve and > protect data for use as evidence to > establish proof of innocence or guilt. For > intelligence and evidence gathering > purposes, to maintain the effectiveness of > UK law enforcement, intelligence and > security agencies to protect society.' > > The document is written by Roger Gaspar, > the deputy director-general of the National > Criminal Intelligence Service, the > Government agency that oversees > criminal intelligence in the United > Kingdom. Gaspar, as head of intelligence > for NCIS, is one of the most powerful and > influential men in the field. > > The report says it is written 'on behalf of > Acpo [the Association of Chief Police > Officers], HM Customs and Excise, > security service, secret intelligence > service and GCHQ [the Government's > secret listening centre based at > Cheltenham]'. > > Gaspar argues telephone companies > should be ordered to retain all records of > phone calls and internet access. > > At the moment many telephone and > internet service providers keep data for as > little as 24 hours. > > 'In the interests of verifying the accuracy > of data specifically provided for either > intelligence or evidential purposes, CSPs > [communication service providers such as > telephone or internet companies] should > be under an obligation to retain the > original data supplied for a period of seven > years or for as long as the prosecuting > authority directs,' the document says. > > 'Informal discussions have taken place > with the office of the data protection > commissioner. Whilst they acknowledge > that such communications data may be of > value to the work of the agencies and the > interests of justice they have grave > reservations about longer term data > retention.' The document says the new > data warehouse would be run along > similar lines to the National DNA > Database for profiles of known criminals. > > It would cost about #3 million to set up > and #9m a year to run. > > The report demands that the Government > 'should be prepared to defend our > position'. > > A spokesman for NCIS refused to be > drawn on the report. 'I am not going to > comment on a classified document that is > in unauthorised hands,' he said. > > Meanwhile a Home Office spokesman > said it had received the proposals and > was considering them. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,406191,00.html > > http://cryptome.org/ncis-carnivore.htm > > http://www.observer.co.uk/leaders/story/0,6903,406160,00.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 18:25:27 -0500 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: end of year lists Can I be the first to compile an end of year list... I declare 'the uncoated skillet' thread the dullest of 2000 by a country fuckin' mile...;-) jmbc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 17:38:43 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: butter that skillet >> People have been doing that for centuries. Man, I use nothing >> but uncoated skillets. That is why we have butter and save >> bacon grease, or at least one of the reasons. >but if you use butter or bacon grease or Pam or whatever, you >ARE coating the skillet; you are merely using a skillet that is not >pre-coasted with teflon or whatever. Even more to the point, if GSS is really so disdainful of the hardening of his arteries as to use butter and bacon grease in the first place, all the while casually brushing aside massive improvements in cookware technology, perhaps he *deserves* to end up with imperfectly formed, messy-looking fried eggs! And presumably we're talking about sunny- side-up here, right? If you're trying to do a nice over-hard or (heaven forbid) over-easy without a no-stick coating, you might as well give up before you even turn the burner on, if you ask me. Sure, it's just my opinion, but I'm sticking to it [holy shite what am I doing trying to set up a totally inane punchline like this goddammit I'm above that sort of thing aren't I jeezus maybe I should just stop while I still have a shred of dignity left but wait I lost all my dignity a long time ago so why do I even bother I ask myself]. John "mmmmm....eggs" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:44:14 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: reep http://news.excite.com/news/ap/001207/17/ent-obit-klemperer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 19:04:20 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: Re: butter that skillet > Even more to the point, if GSS is really so disdainful of the hardening > of his arteries as to use butter and bacon grease in the first place, all > the while casually brushing aside massive improvements in cookware > technology, perhaps he *deserves* to end up with imperfectly formed, > messy-looking fried eggs! And presumably we're talking about sunny- Well, if the age of my grandparents on both sides and their cooking and eating and drinking habits should in anyway have an influence on my future and well-being, I will continue to use butter, whole milk, eggs, cheese, bacon, sausuge, grease from both and have an occasional beer and a drink or so of fine sippin whiskey. And I will continue to wrap my baked potatoes in bacon grease soaked paper towels just before serving. Ooh yeah, and use an old, well seasoned iron skillet that I bought at a garage sale for 50 cents. In addition, I will continue to seek the rare but not forgotten analog studios that use tube compressors, 2 inch tapes, and hold in high esteem 60 year old Martin Guitars. And I will probably be doing these same things when I'm 90, just like my grandparents. gss ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #360 *******************************