From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #326 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, November 12 2000 Volume 09 : Number 326 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Billy Elliot & T rex [Michael R Godwin ] Re: underlight moonwater [Ben ] Re: Polly-tics on the shore [Ehtyl Ketone ] RE: for my part... ["Brian Huddell" ] Re:for my part... [Bayard ] the Soft Boys' psycho blues [Bayard ] belle, book, and sebastian ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] I Tot I Taw A Puddy Tat! [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Re: more damn politics [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] I work hard for the money... ["jbranscombe@compuserve.com" ] Re: I Tot I Taw A Puddy Tat! [Eleanore Adams ] [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: The Next President]] [Eleanore Adams ] tidbits from the auditorium [drop the holupki ] Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: The Next President]] [drop the holupki ] Re: I Tot I Taw A Puddy Tat! [lj lindhurst ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:50:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Billy Elliot & T rex On Fri, 10 Nov 2000, Eleanore Adams wrote: > Well, my hubby and I went and saw Billy Elliot last weekend. Very good > film. Go see it. But the soundtrack!!!! I, for some insane reason, had > never bought a T Rex album. I have cured that fault today. But why, oh why, is a boy in 1984 listening to 1972 pop music? Pretty well any T Rex Greatest Hits collection is OK. And if you get hooked, you must buy the early hippy trippy dippy Tyrannosaurus Rex stuff too, notably the first album, 'My people were fair and had sky in their hair, but now they're content to wear stars on their brows' and the second album 'Prophets, seers and sages, the angels of the ages'. And if you want to dig earlier than that, there are some albums of Bolan demos, and a few fabulous John's Children tracks, notably 'Desdemona' and 'Come and play with me in the garden'. - - Mike "Duggery dug redug duggery dug redug" Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:50:13 -0500 From: Ben Subject: Re: underlight moonwater > Apparently Underwater Moonlight will come out early next year on Matador, > with lots of unreleased rehearsal tapes and out-takes. There is talk of a > *triple* album vinyl release!! Coool! Any idea as to what the unreleased stuff will be? Alien? Song In D? Wang Dang Pig? There's plenty to choose from! This will be the first Robyn album which I will own 2 different copies of. Now back to CNN... er, I mean Fegmaniax. ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:12:37 -0500 From: Ehtyl Ketone Subject: Re: Polly-tics on the shore At 11:31 PM -0800 11/10/00, Jeff Dwarf wrote: >who would have thought it possible that you could have two consecutive >second ladies of whom tipper gore is the greater supporter of free >speech. lynne cheney is a scary creature. Tell that to my friend Jello Biafra... - -- "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** C. J. Galbraith Ketone Press meketone@ix.netcom.com www.bogdescu.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:19:18 -0600 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: for my part... > how can a national election conceivably be equitable when the voting rules > differ from state to state? > > - Mike Godwin There are no national elections in the US. What happened on November 7 was a series of simultaneous state elections to determine each state's electors. The states enjoy a great deal of discretion in the method used to select their electors. (Here in Louisiana, for instance, our electors are determined through an arcane process involving dancing, chanting, effigies of the major candidates, and gris-gris.) As you can imagine, there is a lot of popular support for a move to a national election system. It may be our only hope for breaking out of the third world. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:23:41 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re:for my part... me: > > Not only that, but I do belive i heard on the television this evening that > > by florida law, all circles to be punched must be to the left of the > > candidate's name. On the ballot in question, this was not the case. > > As you know, it was a weird zigzag sort of system. Terry: > There's a law that says it has to be to the left and a law that says it > can be before or after the name. Two conflicting laws, then? And I assume even if it can be before OR after, it's not quite kosher to have it before some and after some? My, this is complicrated. =b ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:16:48 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: the Soft Boys' psycho blues the Nupp: > A triple vinyl release would be most excellent. I really hope the far > superior "skin it back" version of Old Pervert is included. Also Innocent > Boy. there are people on the list who are in touch with Robyn, Kimberley etc so feel free to make track suggestions. > "Kimberley is playing in the band on UK dates" -Does this mean he won't be > tour on the US tour? I hope not. Any word about who'd be playing bass? The UK dates I was talking about were the up and coming ones with Patch Hannon on drums and some bass player that Patch has played with before but Robyn hasn't. The Soft Boys wil definitely be The Soft Boys when they come along. There is a strong possibility that The Soft Boys will be on a compilation of 'Psycho Blues' tracks in the New Year. Thoughts on tracks that might fit that description? I've got my faves: Give It To The Soft Boys, Mystery Train, Old Pervert, Fatman's Son but it would be interesting to hear other suggestions - also from Robyn and Kim's solo careers. They'll be sitting alongside artists such as Alabama 3, Nick Cave, Screaming Blue Messiahs, Gun Club etc. "Blues in A" might not make it on ;) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 13:24:50 -0800 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: belle, book, and sebastian >From: "Stewart C. Russell" > >B&S are okay, but they're just another sensitive Scottish band with >ill-advised hair. I really liked them until this latest album. Maybe I'm just losing my always-sketchy critical faculties, but not only do I disagree with the popular opinion on this album and the new PJ Harvey, but I can't even see where it's coming from. _Fold Your Hands, Child..._ is, to me, a really bland and unappealing record. >From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" >I can see a lot of good in the Naderite campaign, but also think >there should be ways of working within the Democratic Party to make it a >better entity. Everyone keeps saying this, but look at the numbers. Why did Bush win so many votes? Was it because the Left hadn't worked hard enough within the Democratic Party to make it a better entity? If it does become "a better entity," will an apparently right-leaning country simply elect Republicans by a greater margin? I admit I don't know much about how the political parties work, but the idea that the Democratic Party just needs some good lefties to come in and clean it up a bit doesn't make any sense to me. It seems more reasonable to try to clean up the electorate, to make people aware of the problems that exist and what needs to be done about them, and then if any candidate wants those votes, he (sigh) will at least pay lip service to the shift in public opinion. This is what I meant about the machine wanting to stay in power, and changing its ideology accordingly. >From: "Russ Reynolds" > >I just read that Theresa LePore, the County Election Supervisor who >designed this ballot is actually a democrat! Apparently the design was >supposed to make it EASIER for older voters to read. Doh! To me it doesn't matter whether the redesign was a sinister plot or an honest but stupid usability mistake (the number of usability experts on the web saying the same thing about the ballot in their latest columns is pretty funny...thanks, no one has covered that story yet!). The important thing is that some people made errors based on the design. Designing an easy-to-use voting machine or ballot should be excruciatingly simple. >From: Michael Wolfe > >Wow, okay. Three people have accused me of adopting a >self-righteous tone, including one who actually agrees with my >ideology. For what it's worth, I didn't think your tone was any more self-righteous than usual for political discussions on this newsgroup. Awful lot of pot and kettle going on there, I think. ObRobyn: I got my PlayStation 2 last night, and I am now finally able to watch Storefront Hitchcock on DVD at will. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, drew at stormgreen.com http://www.stormgreen.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 16:35:25 EST From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: I Tot I Taw A Puddy Tat! In a message dated 11/8/2000 1:30:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time, owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org writes: << .for those single mothers who need financial help (my mom is a single mother of 7, and she is not lazy, just unlucky),>> Screw single mothers who make horrible decisions with their lives. Anyone who has that many children is ASKING for financial problems. People often make their own problems worse, and then they turn to the stereotyped white Protestant for some cash. << women who NEED an abortion>> Need or WANT???? Life threatening? Sure, that's everyone's problem. Stupid mistake? Well, there is a family right here, me, who would happily adopt that misfortune... <>, Uh, they've already received their benefit. How would they be effected? And why not give aid to the poor guy who was UNABLE to see his FULL potential cause he was glossed over so that a lesser qualified person could get ahead of him? <> Many of which have fake social security numbers so that they can work and receive benefits illegally. Others who had every opportunity to make it out of that lifestyle, but chose not to stay in school... People who refuse to see that anybody at any age can go back to school and increase their earning potential...Working on the labor line is a choice. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you can't have 5 kids and work on a labor line. But it happens all the time. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for stupid people who put themselves in positions that require assistance? <<, may see that their struggles are a bit tougher, because some of the laws that are hanging by a thread will be squashed. Ok, this may not affect the majority of white Protestants out there, whose tax breaks will make live just a tiny bit sweeter. >> The friends I have today who have money starved themselves for 10 years putting themselves through school. While other kids brought home 30 Thousand a year, driving better cars, eating better food, wearing better clothes, taking their girlfriends out to MUCH nicer places, we drove heaps of shit, ate mac and cheese, and never bought new clothes. Now in our 30's, we have passed the kids who CHOSE not to go to school. Successful people make sacrifices. Successful people know what it's like to eat crap cause they can't afford anything else. Being successful is a lifestyle. It is a path that takes dedication. It is not handed to you. Successful people shouldn't have to pick up the pieces of other people's lives. I would love to have kids right now. I wish I had kids right now. I have chosen to put these things on hold so that I can be totally financially independent. So don't come running to my pocket book for some cash just because YOU put yourself in a situation where you couldn't take care of your obligations. My friend is finally a doctor. After years and years and years of studying. He will eventually make a lot of money, and bitter people will always point to how easy doctors have it, how rich they are how white and Protestant they are(which he is not). He has struggled and sacrificed for more years than anyone I know. And when he is filthy stinking rich, if that is what he chooses to be, then good for him. All of his years of determination will pay off. Too bad there will always be someone at his door looking for a handout of sorts from someone they only see as rich and privileged. I TOT I TAW A PUDDY TAT!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:18:06 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: more damn politics >> Not only that, but I do belive i heard on the television this evening that >> by florida law, all circles to be punched must be to the left of the >> candidate's name. On the ballot in question, this was not the case. >> As you know, it was a weird zigzag sort of system. > >It certainly looked confusing when they showed it on TV yesterday. And >how can a national election conceivably be equitable when the voting rules >differ from state to state? agreed. If Maine's rules had been in force in Florida, we'd have got a result ages ago. I suspect if they were, each candidate would have got close to a dozen electoral college votes. BTW - possibly apocryphal - I've heard that one of Cuba's top newspapers had the headline "Miami's Cuban defectors turn U.S. into a banana republic" James np - Seely Girn (Alastair Galbraith) nf - Iceland. Blue with a red scandinavian cross fimbriated in white. James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 19:31:47 -0500 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: I work hard for the money... Ahhhh, Blatzmann returns. Now I understand why 50 million people voted Bush.... jmbc. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:21:49 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Polly-tics on the shore Ehtyl Ketone wrote: > At 11:31 PM -0800 11/10/00, Jeff Dwarf wrote: > >who would have thought it possible that you could have two > consecutive > >second ladies of whom tipper gore is the greater supporter of free > >speech. lynne cheney is a scary creature. > > Tell that to my friend Jello Biafra... well tipper is odious as hell. i just think cheney is worse. it _IS_ one of those hitler-stalin paradoxes though. ===== "The public have an insatiable curiosity to know everything, except what is worth knowing. Journalists, conscious of this, and having tradesman-like habits, supplies their demands." -- Oscar Wilde Yahoo! Calendar - Get organized for the holidays! http://calendar.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:49:59 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: I Tot I Taw A Puddy Tat! Eleanore responds: Well, just because this got a little personal.....I have to share my experiences. It is not the same as walking in someone elses shoes, but maybe you will understand: BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/8/2000 1:30:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time, > owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org writes: > > << .for those single mothers who need financial > help (my mom is a single mother of 7, and she is not lazy, just unlucky),>> > > Screw single mothers who make horrible decisions with their lives. Anyone > who has that many children is ASKING for financial problems. People often > make their own problems worse, and then they turn to the stereotyped white > Protestant for some cash. Often it is not the choices the mothers have made, but unforseen outcomes of the choices. My mom is very common in the word of single mothers who need help. She had her 7 kids in wedlock, thinking she married a great guy. His true colors did not come out until it was difficult to change the situation without danger. I have worked with many single moms and this is extremely common. (I do volunteer legal work) For many years I said what you said, resenting my mom, until I grew up and understood the dynamics. I agree she should not have had my brothers and sisters, but she was catholic and didn't know better. I think that it is in our states/countrys interest in the health and welfare of our citizens to use some of our wealth to extend a hand out to those who need, just as we have concerns over the health and welfare of our citizens to regulate food and firearms, and police our streets. > > > << women who NEED an abortion>> > > Need or WANT???? Life threatening? Sure, that's everyone's problem. Stupid > mistake? Well, there is a family right here, me, who would happily adopt > that misfortune... > I have heard many people who say they would adopt, but there are so many, many kids who are stuck in group and foster homes that nobody wants. Many of my clients grew up in foster homes. I am thankful that my mom kept me, but maybe her life would have been better if she believed she had a choice. Being catholic, she did not use the options our great country allows her, (until Bush places those new justices.) I know it is a struggle to adopt - the system does not make it easy for you. Have you tried being a foster parent? I know that is kind of personal.... > > < with affirmative action to see their FULL potential>>, > > Uh, they've already received their benefit. How would they be effected? And > why not give aid to the poor guy who was UNABLE to see his FULL potential > cause he was glossed over so that a lesser qualified person could get ahead > of him? > I was speaking of those in the future, who will still be feeling the prejudices of the past 200 years, who still have 2 steps to walk for every one step that a native wasp has to step. If you think that the prejudices of the past are irradicated, then I have never been to your town or workplace. In the Bay area, where there is much diversity, I still see it every day. > > <> > > Many of which have fake social security numbers so that they can work and > receive benefits illegally. Others who had every opportunity to make it out > of that lifestyle, but chose not to stay in school... People who refuse to > see that anybody at any age can go back to school and increase their earning > potential...Working on the labor line is a choice. It doesn't take a rocket > scientist to see that you can't have 5 kids and work on a labor line. But it > happens all the time. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for stupid people who > put themselves in positions that require assistance? All of the males in my family were (some have passed on) in the UAW. All worked hard, and all needed the support of the union to help communicate with management. if it were not for the support of the UAW, my family would have had an even harder struggle. I thank god for the UAW. Yes, I grew up in exactly the type of family you hated, I guess. My father had 7 kids to support, and he is an immigant, and he was in the UAW. His values are from the old country,and he believed that this was the way to have a respectable life. Working on the labor line is often a very wise choice. It offers your family a chance, when you are new to the country. A good honest days work for a good honest days pay. None of my family had a fake social security card. The majority of union workers are legal citizens/immigants. They are hard working people who may not be rocket scientists, but want to work hard, and do work hard, and they are the backbone of our country. > > > <<, may see that their > struggles are a bit tougher, because some of the laws that are hanging by a > thread will be squashed. Ok, this may not affect the majority of white > Protestants out there, whose tax breaks will make live just a tiny bit > sweeter. >> > > The friends I have today who have money starved themselves for 10 years > putting themselves through school. While other kids brought home 30 Thousand > a year, driving better cars, eating better food, wearing better clothes, > taking their girlfriends out to MUCH nicer places, we drove heaps of shit, > ate mac and cheese, and never bought new clothes. Now in our 30's, we have > passed the kids who CHOSE not to go to school. Successful people make > sacrifices. Successful people know what it's like to eat crap cause they > can't afford anything else. I am in my 30's, my husband in his 40's. We, like you have chosen to work hard and not have kids. My husband never went to college, but has been sucessful through hard work. I am fortunate. i worked hard and put myself through undergrad, and am now in law school. I are nothing but beans and rice while in undergrad, been there, done that. My family didn't think I could do it and did not support me. They though I should sew. (my grandmother and aunts sewed in a dress shop. They didn't understand that is not the old country ,again) I am sucessful and have made many sacrifices. But I am happy to help those who are in need and am glad to pay higher taxes to help those who need. In fact, I firmly believe no one - rich or poor, should get a tax break. > > > Being successful is a lifestyle. It is a path that takes dedication. It is > not handed to you. Successful people shouldn't have to pick up the pieces of > other people's lives. I would love to have kids right now. I wish I had > kids right now. I have chosen to put these things on hold so that I can be > totally financially independent. So don't come running to my pocket book for > some cash just because YOU put yourself in a situation where you couldn't > take care of your obligations. True, being sucessful is not handed to you (unless you are a Bush) (cheap shot I know). It takes blood, sweat and tears. But if we are sucessful, as an american, I believe it is our duty to help those who need a hand. If you are a catholic, you believe it is your moral duty to help those who need help. I have long abandoned my religion, but those values permeate my democratic liberalism. > > > My friend is finally a doctor. After years and years and years of studying. > He will eventually make a lot of money, and bitter people will always point > to how easy doctors have it, how rich they are how white and Protestant they > are(which he is not). He has struggled and sacrificed for more years than > anyone I know. And when he is filthy stinking rich, if that is what he > chooses to be, then good for him. All of his years of determination will pay > off. Too bad there will always be someone at his door looking for a handout > of sorts from someone they only see as rich and privileged. I am happy for him. And I hope when people knock on his door, he will give them a little. My husband and I, even though I am still in school and am in debt, still give to certain charities every year. i would feel guilty not to, since I have it so good compared to many. I know you mean well. Your a feg! But I have a feeling your life was/is drastically different than mine - which is one of the great things about the US. This country is very, very diverse. And so far that has been our strength. eleanore > > > I TOT I TAW A PUDDY TAT!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:01:41 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: The Next President]] My hubby sent this one to me..... eleanore Received: by tdl (mbox eleanore) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Fri Nov 10 17:34:04 2000) X-From_: hcaley@neomorphic.com Fri Nov 10 16:48:22 2000 Received: from roma.neomorphic.com (hidden-user@firewall.neomorphic.com [205.217.46.68]) by tdl.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06171 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:48:21 -0800 Received: from neomorphic.com (IDENT:hcaley@vinci.neomorphic.com [10.0.0.157]) by roma.neomorphic.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA20030 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:48:20 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A0C9754.4000609@neomorphic.com> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:48:20 -0800 From: Hugh Caley Organization: Neomorphic User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-5.0 i686; en-US; m18) Gecko/20001110 X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eleanore Adams Subject: [Fwd: FW: The Next President] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain - -- Hugh Caley Software Engineer II Neomorphic Inc. 510-981-8537 hcaley@neomorphic.com Received: from como (como.neomorphic.com [10.0.0.97]) by roma.neomorphic.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA19252 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:52:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Erik Burns" To: "Neomorphic" Subject: FW: The Next President Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:14:04 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/mixed by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Enjoy! [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of THENEXT PRESIDENT.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:26:16 -0500 From: drop the holupki Subject: tidbits from the auditorium two new tidbits on the robyn hitchcock website: * the relationships will be opening the november 17th show at the point in oxford. * the november 22nd solo gig in newcastle-on-tyne will be at couny's. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 10:37:14 -0500 From: drop the holupki Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: FW: The Next President]] when we last left our heroes, Eleanore Adams exclaimed: >[demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of >THENEXT PRESIDENT.jpg] now that i know demime is working, i guess this is as good a time as any to remind everyone that sending binary files or html-formatted mail to fegmaniax is a no-no (they wreck havoc on people who don't have mime-enabled mailers and the digest), and let everyone know that i've installed a mime filter on the list. the filter will junk any attached files and reformat enriched or html text to plain text automagically. it's not 100% foolproof, but there aren't too many fools on feg so that shouldn't be a problem. ;) if you do have a binary file to share (be it an image file or whatever), please put it on the web somewhere and post an url. if you can't put stuff on the web for whatever reason, i'm happy to help -- just drop me a line off-list. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 12:06:04 -0500 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: I Tot I Taw A Puddy Tat! BLATZMAN: >Screw single mothers who make horrible decisions with their lives. Anyone >who has that many children is ASKING for financial problems. People often >make their own problems worse, and then they turn to the stereotyped white >Protestant for some cash. I'm with you 100% here! Nothing pisses me off more than having to pick up the slack for people who made bad decisions with their lives. Why should WE have to pay when someone is irresponsibly having children that they do not have the resources or time to care for?? And while we're on the subject, the whole notion of maternity leave pisses me off, too. Why should an employer have to pay for someone to take leave from their job to have a baby? It was their decision, they should be prepared to use up some vacation time for that activity, or take an unpaid leave of absence or something. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed time off, I'm just saying that the employer shouldn't end up paying for it. And why are concessions made only for people having children? What if the rest of us have an equally important Life Event that we need time off for? I'm not anti-child, don't get me wrong--I just think that people should be prepared to take responsibility for their own actions and not rely on the rest of the world to cater to them. ><< women who NEED an abortion>> > >Need or WANT???? Life threatening? Sure, that's everyone's problem. Stupid >mistake? Well, there is a family right here, me, who would happily adopt >that misfortune... Now, come on! It's not that simple and you know it. There are so many more factors involved here, and I really don't think *it would be good for the American People* for us to get into this debate on the List. > ><with affirmative action to see their FULL potential>>, > >Uh, they've already received their benefit. How would they be effected? And >why not give aid to the poor guy who was UNABLE to see his FULL potential >cause he was glossed over so that a lesser qualified person could get ahead >of him? Here's a little story about ME: I put myself through college. It wasn't easy-- I'm from a family of 9, and not only was I the first kid to graduate from high school, I was obviously the first to even consider going to college. My parents actively DISCOURAGED me from doing so, too. So there I was, living in one room, working 40 hours a week, working 12 work-study hours a week (for my loans), and trying to take 18 credit hours a semester so I didn't end up undergrad for 5 years. It was HARD. While everyone else was living in the dorms, going to "keggers," even having the luxury of taking on a UNpaid internship (I couldn't even fucking IMAGINE that one), I was laboring in a damp basement warehouse, lugging dusty boxes up back-breaking flights of narrow stairs. I will spare you any further details, but trust me, this was not a good time in my life (which is a shame, because isn't college supposed to be that wonderful, free-lovin experimental time in your life?). When I graduated, I ended up with a horribly stressful job at a television station in Lafayette, Indiana. I made $4.65/hour. I worked 15-hour shifts, but they kept me under 40 hours/week so they didn't have to pay me any benefits. I was there for a year and a half, and all I wanted to do was get promoted to a news "photog"-- a cameraman who goes around and tapes the video segments for the news. These guys made a whopping $22,000/year (plus benefits), and that's the kind of BIG MONEY I was gunning for. Sad, isn't it? Well, the saddest part of this story is that after vying for this job again and again, and even interviewing with the news director twice, they gave the job to a young black man with no experience, fresh out of college. Why? Because there were no African-Americans on the staff, and they needed to satisfy EEOC regulations. When I asked the news director why I was passed over for this promotion, he said to me, "Oh, come on, why do you want to go lugging that heavy equipment around, anyway?" So I not only was passed over because I was WHITE, I was passed over because I was a WOMAN. I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions on this one, but needless to say, I get very bitter whenever I hear talk about affirmative action... lj ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #326 *******************************