From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #325 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, November 11 2000 Volume 09 : Number 325 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Bell & Sebastian 30%, Politics 60% ["Stewart C. Russell" ] screwy ballots ["Russ Reynolds" ] underwater moonlight [Bayard ] New Date for Sandowitz Show [drop the holupki ] Re: underwater moonlight ["brian nupp" ] Van Beethoven ["Yudt.Matthew" ] Re: Van Beethoven [drop the holupki ] Re: Sleeping Minority [Michael Wolfe ] Re: what a country ["Asa Land" ] Re:for my part... [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Van Beethoven [Eb ] Re: Van Beethoven ["brian nupp" ] Re: J5 [Eb ] Change Chumps [Michael Wolfe ] Billy Elliot & T rex [Eleanore Adams ] anyone home??? [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re:for my part... [Bayard ] RE: anyone home??? ["Brian Huddell" ] Re: Polly-tics on the shore [Jeff Dwarf ] Re:for my part... [Terrence Marks ] Re: Sleeping Minority [Jeff Dwarf ] Our next President is... ["J. Brown" ] Re:for my part... [Michael R Godwin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 10:34:04 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Bell & Sebastian 30%, Politics 60% Eleanore Adams wrote: > > I bought the new Bell & Sebastian album It's got an 'e' on "Belle" -- named after a cheesy Swiss (or French) kids' program that was appallingly badly dubbed into english, and shown every vacation for years in the UK. An affecting tale of a boy, his dog, some baddies, lots o' snow and an avalanche, most of us uk fegs of a certain age can still remember the tune. B&S are okay, but they're just another sensitive Scottish band with ill-advised hair. Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 06:37:30 -0500 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: I Am The Natural Law The first party I ever canvassed for was the Ecology Party in the 1979 election. I think it was a major mistake for them to change their name to the Green Party. I still think that similar groupings all over the world suffer from the misapprehension of many people (a misapprehension fostered in part by their own behaviour but to a much greater extent by the media) that they are tree-shagging, yoghurt-knitting nutters. At least Ecology had a bit of gravitas to it. I would have gone for tactical voting in the US, and read somewhere that Nader reneged on a promise to soft-pedal in areas where he would damage Gore most. I can see a lot of good in the Naderite campaign, but also think there should be ways of working within the Democratic Party to make it a better entity. And I still think the Bush is better than Gore argument is crap. (BTW it's interesting to note that Greg 'Capitalist' Shell and Eddie 'Capitalism Blows' Tews have similar attitudes to the two major parties...). MUSIC!!!! (YAAAAY!!!!) George Harrison contributed (contributes?) a lot of money to the Natural Law Party (POLITICS...BOOOO!!!!). I'm sure I remember Robyn making remarks about them at some gig or other... jmbc. Quail: "We are a great country." Uh-oh..... Someone else said, "The only truths are the stars in the heavens (and all that lies beneath them is interpretation.)" Not if you believe in the Strong Anthropic Principle they're not.... George Harrison contributed (contributes?) a lot of money ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:45:50 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #324 welcome back Scott, and welcome back Bayard, with the most lucid post of the week. oh, and you thought I'd let this pass??? >Well, I downloaded the LOTR site preview, and have decided that I need >to visit that beautiful country some day soon. It just looks so diverse >and beautiful, as well as an island. (and growing up near the great >lakes and hawaii, and now on the SF bay, I have this longing for water >when looking at place. most of the recent filming has been around the Queenstown/Wanaka area, about 150 miles from where I am, although the parts shot earlier (which ISTR were the Shire parts were near Hamilton in the central North Island and around Mordo..erm...the volcanic plateau south of Taupo. Yup (he says as modestly as possible) we do have some pretty neat scenery down here... even here in Dunedin, if I look over my right shoulder as I type I canb srer the beauyofil blure of the Pacujfdoc Ocean... [1,2] >And they're one of the great comedy political parties. They claim that, >since their sacred text has seven parts, and that Niels Bohr's atomic >theory has seven chapters, they have the weight of science behind them. >Coo. Hm... are they also responsible for the seven dwarfs? How about the seven samurai? or maybe the stars on the Venezuelan flag? I tend to agree with the crime statistics though - it's difficult to commit felony when you're laughing at the methods being used to stop it. (apologies. I shouldn't pooh-pooh people's strangely, erm, strongly held beliefs). Good to see some non-political posts starting to creep into the discussion. James [1] well, I would if it wasn't dark. 2am and the sun's not up. Who'd a thunk... [2] memo to self. Do not type while looking over shoulder. James Dignan, Dunedin, New Zealand. =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-= -=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.- .-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=- You talk to me as if from a distance -.-=-.- And I reply with impressions chosen from another time =-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-.-=-. (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 07:04:32 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: ... ...so, how about them Soft Boys? Marc "I can scroll past your political rants faster than you can type them" Holden ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 08:09:55 -0800 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: screwy ballots > I've been somewhat suspicious of this faulty-ballot argument (sounded a bit > desperate, on the Democrats' part), but when you see that bar graph showing > the Buchanan vote from county to county, the enormous spike at Palm Beach > County is undeniably startling. I just read that Theresa LePore, the County Election Supervisor who designed this ballot is actually a democrat! Apparently the design was supposed to make it EASIER for older voters to read. Doh! - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:10:23 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: underwater moonlight Apparently Underwater Moonlight will come out early next year on Matador, with lots of unreleased rehearsal tapes and out-takes. There is talk of a *triple* album vinyl release!! Kimberley is playing in the band on UK dates - Tim and Jake aren't. I am told the novel should not be expected in the short or even medium term. =b ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:38:32 -0500 From: drop the holupki Subject: New Date for Sandowitz Show for everyone's information... >From: "jammyweasel" >TO: >Subject: New Date for Sandowitz Show >Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 09:46:38 -0000 > >Hey Woj! > >Just thought I'd let you know that the Jerry Sandowitz Show that is suppose >to be aired on the 12th Nov.....isn't. I looked at the TV listings for the >upcoming week, couldn't find it anywhere so called Channel 5 programming and >was told that the first episode of the series was now to be shown on the 19th >Nov at 11.20pm. Said he didn't know where the info about the 12th came from >(?). he couldn't confirm that Robyn was on the programme on the 19th so I >guess it's just a matter of hanging around on Sunday nights at 11.20 to see >when he'll show up. > >If anyone wants to call Channel 5 to check this out, the phone no. is: 0845 >7050505. > >Jammy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:09:00 EST From: "brian nupp" Subject: Re: underwater moonlight Bayard piped: >Apparently Underwater Moonlight will come out early next year on Matador, >with lots of unreleased rehearsal tapes and out-takes. There is talk of a >*triple* album vinyl release!! > >Kimberley is playing in the band on UK dates - Tim and Jake aren't. > >I am told the novel should not be expected in the short or even medium >term. > >=b Oh my God Thank you! Thank you for mentioning something, anything Robyn oriented, and not political (no offense please). A triple vinyl release would be most excellent. I really hope the far superior "skin it back" version of Old Pervert is included. Also Innocent Boy. "Kimberley is playing in the band on UK dates" -Does this mean he won't be tour on the US tour? I hope not. Any word about who'd be playing bass? Nevermind. I'm just excited this isn't a political conversation. Brian N. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 14:39:30 -0500 From: "Yudt.Matthew" Subject: Van Beethoven (Slightly embarassed to admit) I was just listening to that guru-of-right-wing-ignorance on the radio, and he had Camper Van Beethoven playing in the background as bumper music! The nerve! Anyway, it made me realize how I miss that band as well as the Monks of Doom. Does anyone know if these fellows are around in any form anymore. Boy the Monks were great. I may have to go home and listen to them tonight. Thanks, for once, Rush. Cheers, Yudt PS I can't avoid a slight poltical comment: However dissapointed, I have reserved myself to sit back (in the non-activist sense), hope none of the Supreme [Court] Beings retires in the next 4 years, and enjoy my tax cuts! Ha. I can't see Gore pulling this thing out. No judge in FA would let him/herself choose the prez, so it may be the House of Reps who do. I presume Gore will submit before that. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:44:46 -0500 From: drop the holupki Subject: Re: Van Beethoven when we last left our heroes, Yudt.Matthew exclaimed: >(Slightly embarassed to admit) I was just listening to that >guru-of-right-wing-ignorance on the radio, and he had Camper Van >Beethoven playing in the background as bumper music! The nerve! >Anyway, it made me realize how I miss that band as well as the Monks >of Doom. Does anyone know if these fellows are around in any form >anymore. i was going to answer this with my sketchy post-cvb memories...but with the web, i can just point you to a complete summary provided by the wonderous john relph: . woj ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:28:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: Re: Sleeping Minority Wow, okay. Three people have accused me of adopting a self-righteous tone, including one who actually agrees with my ideology. Two of whom I've met and whose company I've enjoyed, and all of whom, as fegs, I would consider friends. Fercryin'outloud, I've eaten pancakes under your roof, Quail! There can be no greater bond between fowl and canine. Looks like I've got some 'splainin' to do. Though to be honest I had an impulse to just say, well, okay, so y'all think I'm a self-righteous blowhard prig. I think you guys're all bark and no bite, so there, and just let that be that. But that's a pretty stupid impulse. It's counterproductive, for one thing -- my goal in writing is to facilitate an exchange of ideas, and to hopefully let the ideas dearest to me act to convince, not to be "right." As you can see, it's not always easy to keep that goal in mind. If it helps, and perhaps I should have actually done this initially, go back to the self-righteous bits, remove all instances of second person pronouns and replace them with first person pronouns. What I directed at Quail on the list is a conversation that I have with myself all the time. It is HARD to go out and put yourself on the line. I was not up in Seattle, but I wish to God that I had been. I think that you could easily hold my record up to the criteria that I've implied are important to me over the last couple days and find me wanting. But the ideas at the core of what I was trying to say, I think, are still strong, even if the messenger is weak: 1.) Activism can be a very potent force for social and political change. Activism is a CRUCIAL component in enacting certain flavors of social and political change. 2.) The strategies of activism are not necessarily built on top of those of less-engaged approaches, but might entail different paths with similar goals. 3.) There's no reason why I can't be an activist. The third is very important to me. It's best if I illuminate what it means to me by way of example. I, personally, choose a rather idiosyncratic form of personal transport -- I ride a recumbent bicycle, and have never had a driver's license. It perfectly enacts my beliefs about my relationship to the world and to society. I also find that it's a *LOT* easier, faster, and more effective a form of transportation than I would have thought, or most of the people I encounter seem to believe, possible. When I encounter those people who express a little awe and a little incredulousness at this practice, I always try to approach them from the point of view, "It's really fun, and easier than you think! You might surprise yourself at how well it would work for you..." and I am INCREDIBLY self conscious about not stepping into the territory of "...so why the hell aren't you doing it you SUV driving polluting homicidal loser?" I try not to make my choice look extraordinary, I try to make it look like a choice that you wouldn't have to be superman to make, but I also try not to berate and hector them, or to be self-righteous about it. I try to respect their individual situation that might not allow them to make that choice. I mean, I do think that there are lots of people who could make well over half of their trips without a car, but if I'm talking to you, I swear to god that I will never assume that you are one of those people. I think there is a line there, between the carrot and the stick, and I think that I would do well to find it and stay well to one side of it when in the future I discuss activism. I apologize to all that my post was directed at. Thank you, - -Michael Wolfe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:11:07 EST From: "Asa Land" Subject: Re: what a country Commander Lang wrote >however, if gore doesn't get in , the anti dead faction on the list >can at >least console themselves with the fact that the first lady is >not a >deadhead ! The though of the Dead playing the Inaugral Ball -and- having Tipper sit in with them... Thank you for cold comfort if they really do hand the crown to Bush. K _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:24:07 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re:for my part... On Thu, 9 Nov 2000, Terrence Marks wrote: > The ballots weren't contested before the election. If they met the > state's legal requirements, then they're valid, whether or not some > folks filled theirs out incorrectly. and, likewise, if they didn't meet the state's legal requirements, then they're aren't valid, no matter whether a Democrat *and* a Republican -- thereby representing the entire spectrum of human opinion and experience - -- signed off on them. Florida's law is very liberal when specifying what circumstances allow an election to be contested. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:38:10 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Van Beethoven >>he had Camper Van >>Beethoven playing in the background as bumper music! What song? Eb np: Jurassic 5 (I've really warmed up to this one...) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:00:37 EST From: "brian nupp" Subject: Re: Van Beethoven Eb sez: > >np: Jurassic 5 (I've really warmed up to this one...) I sez: I've only heard the song "quality control" which i dig. how the the rest of the album compare? Worth getting? Brian N. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:05:04 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: J5 >I've only heard the song "quality control" which i dig. how the the rest of >the album compare? Worth getting? Sure. An unusually consistent album, for the hip-hop realm. I especially like a track called "Jurass Finish First," which bases the whole song around a geometric l'il Shelly Manne sample. Grooooovy. I feel a bit sheepish endorsing this album, because it's so obviously the year's crossover rap record for white folks, but...well, I like it. It may even make my top 10. And incidentally, I like four or five other tracks *better* than the title song. Another thing I appreciate: Unlike just about every *other* rap album, it isn't padded out to 65-70 minutes, just based on my-package-is-bigger-than-yours oneupmanship. It's a tidy 54 minutes, and that's the perfect length. Eb, who was asked by Atlantic Records today if he was interested in Geddy Lee ;) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 22:43:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: Change Chumps One last thing: I was attributed with having said that "liberals are shit." This is not at all what I said. What I said was: >Liberals are fucking anesthesiologists. Al Gore is a liberal. What prompted me to say this was my belief that a large part of the effect that liberals have is to simply keep things from getting so bad that real change becomes inevitable. I see liberals, in many cases, as the treating symptoms while the root causes linger. Then, when the liberal program inevitably doesn't actually solve the problem, there's huge conservative backlash that prevents even token progress, with the powerful feeling entirely self-justified. Witness welfare reform, for instance. In this way, I see liberals as unwitting guardians of the rich and powerful. Thus, anesthesiologists. They take away the pain that is actually a good thing -- the pain that lets you know that there's something wrong. Anyway, just wanted to correct and clarify, lest anyone get the wrong impression. - -Michael Wolfe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:10:02 -0800 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Billy Elliot & T rex Well, my hubby and I went and saw Billy Elliot last weekend. Very good film. Go see it. But the soundtrack!!!! I, for some insane reason, had never bought a T Rex album. I have cured that fault today. eleanore ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:18:38 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: anyone home??? hello? my, but it's gone quiet... James ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:27:36 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re:for my part... terry - > > The ballots weren't contested before the election. If they met the > > state's legal requirements, then they're valid, whether or not some > > folks filled theirs out incorrectly. aaron - > and, likewise, if they didn't meet the state's legal requirements, then > they're aren't valid, no matter whether a Democrat *and* a Republican -- > thereby representing the entire spectrum of human opinion and experience > -- signed off on them. > > Florida's law is very liberal when specifying what circumstances allow an > election to be contested. Not only that, but I do belive i heard on the television this evening that by florida law, all circles to be punched must be to the left of the candidate's name. On the ballot in question, this was not the case. As you know, it was a weird zigzag sort of system. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:19:15 -0600 From: "Brian Huddell" Subject: RE: anyone home??? > hello? my, but it's gone quiet... > > James Haven't you heard? Half of the American populace nuked the other half. Unfortunately it turns out that we're all crammed together on the same continent (sorry Mexico and Canada) so there were a lot of collateral casualties. Still, it's probably all for the best. Now it's up to the rest of the world to learn from our mistakes and see that this NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:31:00 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Polly-tics on the shore steve wrote: > GSS: > >I think everyone hates Cheney. > > I hate his wife more. who would have thought it possible that you could have two consecutive second ladies of whom tipper gore is the greater supporter of free speech. lynne cheney is a scary creature. ===== "The public have an insatiable curiosity to know everything, except what is worth knowing. Journalists, conscious of this, and having tradesman-like habits, supplies their demands." -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 02:56:32 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence Marks Subject: Re:for my part... On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, Bayard wrote: > Not only that, but I do belive i heard on the television this evening that > by florida law, all circles to be punched must be to the left of the > candidate's name. On the ballot in question, this was not the case. > As you know, it was a weird zigzag sort of system. There's a law that says it has to be to the left and a law that says it can be before or after the name. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://www.unlikeminerva.com HCF (another comic strip) http://www.mpog.com/hcf normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 00:31:51 -0800 (PST) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: Sleeping Minority drop the holupki wrote: > today is the first time you've mentioned sovereignty, jeme. i > think the treaties you're referring to are gatt and wto -- economic > treaties -- but whenever the phrase "undermine our sovereignty" pops > up, i get uneasy. shades of nationalism and all that. can you > concisely elaborate to clear up my understanding? not that i'm jeme, but it's basically that things like local environmental laws, minimum wages laws, etc, could be challenged as in violation of or restrictive to "free trade" under gatt. ===== "The public have an insatiable curiosity to know everything, except what is worth knowing. Journalists, conscious of this, and having tradesman-like habits, supplies their demands." -- Oscar Wilde ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:40:16 -0800 (PST) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Our next President is... Lex Luthor! LUTHOR WINS! - 11-08-00 Official Press Release November 8, 2000 -- METROPOLIS. The votes have been tallied across the nation and the poll results are in: Alexander Joseph Luthor will be the forty-third president of the United States. His actions as innovator, peacekeeper and philanthropist are known by Americans at home and overseas; from his instrumental role in assisting the Justice League in recharging the sun during "The Final Night" to his assimilating and sharing of the alien technology "upgrade" of Metropolis last year, Luthor is a man who knows how to create "Tomorrow Today." Raised in the "Suicide Slums" of Metropolis, Luthor's history speaks of his ingenuity as well as the spirit of the American Dream itself. "After sculpting the city of his birth into the City of the Future, it seems only natural he turns his sights outward to the rest of nation," says Vice President-elect Pete Ross. "The helping hand Luthor extended to the citizens of Gotham City, housing them after the previous administration dismissed an American city and American citizens as a tax burden. That was only the beginning of Luthor's grand plans for America. Luthor's rebuilding of Gotham's infrastructure mirrors the visions expressed in his Tomorrow Party platform. You know the old adage: 'Teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever'? There are great times a-coming." Great times indeed, as the first Tomorrow Party candidate initiates one of the most progressive platforms proposed in years: a platform calling for a moratorium on petroleum-based fuels and an insistence on new energy sources as a means of self-reliance; a further recognition of Atlantis and undersea territories as major world powers; additional funding for the JLA as a peace-keeping force; and a strong-arm approach to running the country closer to Luthor's megacorporation management. According to Luthor's campaign manager Mike Carlin: "President Luthor has founded the world's most powerful corporation and turned it into a force for progress and peace. His leading the world's most powerful nation with a union of politics and technology is the next logical step towards creating a new standard of living for all Americans." Not all captains of industry are quite so optimistic, however. Bruce Wayne, CEO of Wayne Enterprises, went on record saying: "I don't trust him as far as I can throw him; there's something rotten in Denmark." Wayne would not elaborate on Luthor's alleged involvement in Scandinavian domestic affairs, and refused requests for further comment. Taking over President Luthor's duties at LexCorp, Inc. will be new CEO Talia Head, who applauds the victory: "I can assure you that the giant steps in technological innovations made here at LexCorp will continue to go hand-in-hand with the Tomorrow Party's platform to improve the quality of life for all citizens of Earth." Luthor will take office on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, and has gone on record saying his first action as president will be to take the proposed moratorium on fossil-based fuels to Congress in hopes of putting "a flying car in every garage." Welcome to the future, indeed. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA "Everybody needs your meat, But no one meets your needs" -Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:52:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re:for my part... > > Florida's law is very liberal when specifying what circumstances allow an > > election to be contested. On Sat, 11 Nov 2000, Bayard wrote: > Not only that, but I do belive i heard on the television this evening that > by florida law, all circles to be punched must be to the left of the > candidate's name. On the ballot in question, this was not the case. > As you know, it was a weird zigzag sort of system. It certainly looked confusing when they showed it on TV yesterday. And how can a national election conceivably be equitable when the voting rules differ from state to state? - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #325 *******************************