From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #286 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, October 14 2000 Volume 09 : Number 286 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: he also invented the CD player [Capuchin ] Re: Iota gigs ["Scott Clark " ] Re: Idiot record companies fail again? [Capuchin ] Re: Lennon - we all should care! [Capuchin ] Re: Idiot record companies fail again? [Aaron Mandel ] Strange Coincidences, Pt. XVII ["JH3" ] Re: how to alphabetise... [grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan)] Re: Lennon - we all should care! [steve ] Re: Idiot record companies fail again? [steve ] indie country ["jbranscombe@compuserve.com" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #285 ["Russ Reynolds" ] Re: indie country ["Jack Tripper" ] Review;Philly show and more ["Asa Land" ] Re: (aka Barleycorn Death Foretold),Nazz, just for fun [Brett Cooper ] Re: Lennon: What is to be done? [steve ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:42:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: he also invented the CD player On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Bayard wrote: > > Oh, can anyone give me the exact quote/context in which Al Gore claimed to > > invent the Internet? I always hear jokes about this, but have never seen > > the source text. > http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm > This site is an excellent reference for checking on something you've heard > "that's going around." Well, despite Eb not wanting further commentary, I simply must speak to Bayard's post. This snopes page is wrong wrong wrong. It tries to rebuff the idea that Gore claimed he invented the internet by saying "Well, he wasn't saying he DESIGNED it! He just said he helped pave the way for its creation!" Even if Gore had just come out and said "I paved the way legislatively for the creation of the internet." it would be WRONG. The internet was well under weigh long before Al was elected to public office. He did nothing to create the internet. He DID however, help in handing the proceeds of massive public endeavor over to private companies so they can profit off of work they didn't do and didn't repay the government for doing. Al Gore neither created the internet, paved the way for creating the internet, or helped the public get access to the internet. Nor did he answer Mr. Blitzer's question re: What can you bring that Bill Bradley hasn't brought already? The answer is "big media support (seeing as how I DIDN'T oppose the $70B giveaway of public spectra to the broadcast corporations as Bill did), heaps of soft money from corporations loopholing their way into funding federal elections, and a proven record of doing things entirely contrary to what I say". J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:47:49 +0100 From: "Scott Clark " Subject: Re: Iota gigs This is really frustrating. I've had Netmind checking the Fegmania site for months so I could catch any gig announcements. But, as with every other DC area gig I want to see (I live 2 hrs away in Charlottesville, VA), these shows start late on nights followed by working days. Driving home half-asleep followed by four hours of sleep and then work--doesn't quite work out. Ack! _______________________________________________________________________ Dreaming of a Swiss Account? Get it here: http://freemail.swissinfo.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:04:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Idiot record companies fail again? On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, steve wrote: > Benalto: > >This is really interesting, but could someone explain to me exactly what the > >SDMI watermark is, and what it's supposed to do? Then maybe I could > >respond to it being hacked.... > It's a little embedded signature used to prevent the copying of digital > recordings. The SDMI is the industry group that was/is working on the > watermarks. Working groups are how the electronics industry hashes out > standards (sometimes it takes years). That's a quick and simple description. A watermark is actually a very complicated way of mildly twiddling the frequencies across an entire work so that their relative variation can be measured and hashed to come up with a certain key. This kind of twiddling is so slight that you can't hear the difference (they say) and isn't impacted by simply media shifting or re-recording the work or recording at high speed then slowing down again or anything like that. > But there's no reason the use them if they can be cracked, so the SDMI > put out a challenge (with reward) to the hacker community. Didn't take > long to bust the system(s). This is important. The article says something like "Oh, those silly people failed again!" but doesn't really make the blatant connection between the public offering of money BY THE RECORDING COMPANIES and the hacking of SDMI. This is a failure on the part of the hacking community where greed outweighed public good. The hackers that hacked SDMI for cash failed to see that the recording companies are just going to use SDMI to electronically prevent you from doing things already protected by federal law (like sampling for editorial, criticism, or satire; sharing; media-shifting; time-shifting; etc.). They took the quick money instead of letting the recording industry try to feel save and then taking back our basic rights to free information (this right is a natural right, but legally guaranteed under the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States and interpreted time and again to mean exactly the sort of thing that the record companies are trying to stop in order to increase profits... section 106(c) of the Copyright Act codify these rights and they have been very broadly interpreted by the courts). This does not (contrary to what the article said) leave the record companies out in the cold. They will simply improve their technology and come back with something that restricts your ability to communicate effectively (look at SCMS and how it restricts the copy-ability of ALL recordings, regardless of copyright status) in the modern age. On a related note: A computer is any machine you want it to be. You just have to write a program that temporarily creates a machine to do the job you'd like done. The computer itself is a multi-purpose tool with fantastic capabilities and a few illegal uses. A program is simply a very detailed description of the process the computer should enable in order to become a specific tool. It is not right to make computers illegal because their benefits far outweigh the damages possibly created by them. It is not right to make programs illegal because describing processes is a vital part of a growing intellectual base. Even if those processes are illegal when acted out, it should not be illegal to merely describe the process. I think every American would agree that being able to discuss whatever you like is one of the most essential requirements of a free person. It's been a fuzzy issue for centuries whether a thing that has been designed for a single, evil purpose (though infinite uses in hands controlled by a creative mind) should be considered evil. We've all heard "no thing is intrinsically evil, but its manner of usage may make it so". But we go along in this country and make some drugs and some guns illegal... so we, as a nation, haven't made a strong stand on that. But it has been a very clear issue in the minds of Americans since the early days that ideas should not be considered evil. Attempts to prohibit descriptions of the processes involved in making drugs, weapons, etc. have been halted time and again in this country because it is a dangerous thing to start telling people that there are things they cannot discuss in detail. Somehow that's being lost. There are people right now trying to make some descriptions illegal. There is a law on the books that has preliminarily been interpreted to mean that SHARING SOME WORDS IS ILLEGAL. I'm not calling anyone to direct action right now. I'm just letting you see the situation and hopefully enlightening you a bit as to the current state of things and what is at risk here. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:16:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Lennon - we all should care! On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Eleanore Adams wrote: > Would there be Robyn Hitchcock without John Lennon? Well, I firmly > believe that Robyn was heavily influenced by the Beatles, who would not > be the same without Lennon/McCarthey, Hence none of use would be writing > to each other without the life of Lennon!!!! Well, like Hitchcock, Lennon was just a musician. You know artists have their place and all, but the impact of Lennon in particular is vague and undiscernable. Certainly art should be celebrated and encourged, but deifying artists is wrong and doesn't get us anywhere. Lennon is dead. Enjoy his music if you can. And though technically it was a crime, it is ultimately not that important when or how he died. And really, when you think about it, The Beatles WERE just a boy band that made it big enough (and got rich enough) to experiment in public instead of in their garages. Without the corporate media machine and the record company's merchadising and publicity early in their career, their later albums would never have been considered "great" because the number of people who would have heard them would be quite small. The same can be said for The Beach Boys and their great later work (though I'll save my own personally relative qualifications for another time). Certainly the Beatles are over-rated. Certainly John Lennon is unduly deified. And certainly his death was untimely and somewhat sad. But it was twenty years ago (and wouldn't most say that his greatest work was 30 or more years ago?)... and he was just a rock star. J. - -- _______________________________________________ Capuchin capuchin@bitmine.net Jeme A Brelin _______________________________________________ [cc] counter-copyright http://www.openlaw.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:37:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Idiot record companies fail again? On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Capuchin wrote: > This does not (contrary to what the article said) leave the record > companies out in the cold. They will simply improve their technology > and come back with something that restricts your ability to > communicate effectively (look at SCMS and how it restricts the > copy-ability of ALL recordings, regardless of copyright status) in the > modern age. i've heard from people close to the process (and there was a Salon article on this a while ago, but that was not the first source i'd heard it from) that the SDMI group is such a mess that it may not, in fact be able to do better. if i understand you right, you're suggesting that someone who had broken their watermarking system should have kept mum until SDMI was fully deployed, then released their hack to scuttle the whole thing. however, what with some of the crappy laws on the books right now, this would have made them criminals (circumventing security measures and all that) and could well have led to a NEW round of crappy legislation meant to protect the industry from its customers. so it's not clear to me what the right strategic choice is. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:41:17 EDT From: HSatterfld@aol.com Subject: Re: Iota gigs + looking for a CD I am hoping to attend Sunday's festivities with my fiancee, although I have never been to Iota so I hope it will be easy to find. I'll probably be wearing a Sisters of Mercy t-shirt. And if anybody can direct me to a spare copy of T-Bone Burnett's "The Talking Animals" on CD, I'd be much obliged. It is too far out-of-print to show up at spun.com or SecondSpin. (And the comedian who keeps putting it up on Napster has a 14.4 modem.) that Hollie dude ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:54:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Glen Uber Subject: Sharkboy, get your wings! http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/gloster/gos-nf11.htm Cheers! - -g- "When a woman marries she is complete. When a man marries, he is finished." --Oscar Wilde +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Glen Uber uberg (at) sonic dot net http://www.sonic.net/~uberg Santa Rosa, California ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:03:31 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Strange Coincidences, Pt. XVII >in the "of no interest to anyone else" category of coincidences... Speaking of coincidences, this one was so weird I had to tell someone. I was waiting to get on a flight to Peoria yesterday when a 23-ish woman with a diamond stud in her nose sat down next to me. I didn't say anything to her, of course. When they called the flight, we both got up to make quick phone calls (because they'd threatened to cancel it earlier), and I ended up right behind her in the line to board the plane. Then it turns out she was assigned the seat right next to mine on the plane! It was a small plane (60 seats), so I figured the chances of this weren't outside the realm of possibility, so I still didn't say anything to her. But when we landed, her *bag* was the next one out behind mine! And *then*, as we were heading out to the parking lot to go home, the guy who was picking her up had parked *right next to my wife's truck*! I felt like I should say something at that point, but I couldn't think of anything appropriate. Besides, the guy who was picking her up didn't look very friendly... So it turned out that neither of us said a word to each other throughout the entire experience. Anyway, maybe it wasn't *that* weird. If not, then I'm sorry to waste the bandwidth. JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:58:28 +1300 From: grutness@surf4nix.com (James Dignan) Subject: Re: how to alphabetise... Johnny Cougar and John Cougar Mellencamp? James ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:57:01 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Lennon - we all should care! Capuchin: >And really, when you think about it, The Beatles WERE just a boy band that >made it big enough (and got rich enough) to experiment in public instead >of in their garages. Seems to me that the term "boy band" should only apply to acts like the Backstreet Boys. They start out as a marketing concept, rather than being formed by the actual performers. The question is, will any of the boy bands turn into The Monkees? >Certainly the Beatles are over-rated. What's the standard? Relative to Bach, or the Stones? - - Steve "I hear this Republican message that we're rich as hell and we're not going to take it any more. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I'm paying taxes at a lower rate than my secretary ... and frankly I think that's crazy." - Warren Buffett ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:05:11 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Idiot record companies fail again? Aaron Mandel: >so it's not clear to me what the right strategic choice is. If every proposed standard is cracked, maybe the record companies will eventually decide it is not worth the time. - - Steve __________ More confirmation that we have a vast sucking noise running for president. - Dahlia Lithwick on the Bush wedding video ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:43:14 -0400 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: indie country I've had rather a dodgy bet with a friend who seems to reckon that alt.country came sorta out of nowhere. I know that The Mekons and I su[ppose, to a certain extent, Nick Cave were into C&W well before that. Does anyone, Brits especially, remember a movement called Cowpunk (it did exist, I just can't remember any exponents) or anyone other Indie types who used Country as a starting point in the 80s and 90s? jmbc Not counting the sleeping knights of Jesus. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:03:06 -0700 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #285 > I'll stick with "A." If you file "A Certain Ratio" under C, this implies > that the "A" is disposable. However, you would *never* say "I own some > Certain Ratio albums" in the way you would say "I own some Beatles albums." > The "A" article just can't be discarded/swapped in the same way. I might very well say that...if I owned any Certain Ratio albums. Do you have any Flock Of Seagulls albums? That A is dropped all the time, and more often than not I see them filed inder F in record stores. > Foetus albums, all filed under "Foetus" or by the individually embellished > names? The same could be asked of Spiz Energy, Athleteco Spiz 80, the Spizzles, etc. > Eb, who doesn't recall ever being "driven nuts" by alphabetizing issues Well, what was it then? - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:14:33 -0500 From: "Jack Tripper" Subject: Re: indie country You win the bet, all you gotta do is mention "Rank and File", who featured the brothers formerly known as The Dils. They're like, early eighties, late seventies..... - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "fegmaniax" Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 7:43 PM Subject: indie country > I've had rather a dodgy bet with a friend who seems to reckon that > alt.country came sorta out of nowhere. I know that The Mekons and I > su[ppose, to a certain extent, Nick Cave were into C&W well before that. > Does anyone, Brits especially, remember a movement called Cowpunk (it did > exist, I just can't remember any exponents) or anyone other Indie types who > used Country as a starting point in the 80s and 90s? > > jmbc > > Not counting the sleeping knights of Jesus. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:14:06 EDT From: "Asa Land" Subject: Review;Philly show and more Ok, just home and it was GREAT. From what I gather this was the first show of the tour, yet it all fit togther like velvet and onions. But Caveat--I got myself well primed before hand and then they actually had a waitress busteling around th TLA asking you if you wanted something -more- to drink and well, I did so--parts of this review might not be properly cohernet. Speaking of coherent--Librarian rule 1(Dolf where are you?)- A is always ignored like The. Plurals dont mean shit. Numbers and abreviations forward, punctuations aft--thou it actually all depends on what style manual you choose(I personally would like to see the Great Quail publish one-- The Quail PoMo Manuel of Style, dressed up to look like the red Chicago one.) Back to the stream of the crime. Crimenly low-turnout, but it did make it intimate. There was a run of people songs-he started with Cynthia Mask, then GLP did one(by the way, lovely 12-string there)then, hmm memories vague but-Queen Elvis(more GLP, they alternated, with Robyn giving him harmonica as well as guitar and harmonies backdrop)with the lyrics in QE slightly altered, with breathe instead of bleed, which I really liked. Lots of good free-for-all-banter tween numbers. Vague sense of Robyn speaking French with a decent accent. Then Nick Drake(maybe my favorite)(especially since he brought up the Volks commercial, which well, really grates on -my- cheese), more GLP(who was very good, just dont know his stuff enough to name it)then Gene Hackman, GLP, I think Antwoman next, GLP, Trams of old London(but with a tease making you think Trains was coming.)GLP then oncore of I Used To Love You(?)on piano. Promise of more out by the T-shirts stand. Very little blinking. He seemed extremely comfortable and looked great(almost as thin as Storefront Hitchcock, but without the plastic veneer.) Hair silver fox, and I swear, the more his cheek pads fall, the more I think after a young Keith Richards he has the best cheekbones in the business. They curve up just right to hit up against the slant of the creases under his eyes. Perfect asthetic curve. Oh, and he wore the round sunglasses on the top of his head, they came down from time to time. Red shirt with green delicious apples on it; blue pants. (Is this where the tag line about the twisted apples comes from;-)? And then he delivered on the T-shirt stand promise. A wonderful version of Ashes to Ashes(GLP played guitar.) Lots of audience participation on the chorus(I got the throw in my alto with vigor on the "We know Major Toms a junkie" line)(well-tell me about -your- drugs) and Robyn danced and even did some Elvis(or was that earlier?) Oh--and he even sang the synth part at one point. Then Everly Bros. Dream Dream Dream. Then T-shirt signing. I was n.2(after making my way foreward mumbling, "Im a pushy New Yorker" to people, one of whom said something like "Yes you are" to which I answered "Right. Im a pushy New Yorker" as in -you think you can embaress me or something?--So I get up there and- Do I say--"Robyn your lyrics have enriched the last 15 years of my life?" Or "Robyn, I honestly think you are the greatest living poet in the English language at this time?" Or do I say "Why cant you could carry T-shirts in medium so that thin woman could get ones which fit?" Well, Ill let you guess, but his answer was a very nice-"There really isnt adequate demand."(yeah, youre right--it was the greatest living poet one. Not.) At which point I looked around and realized I was surronded by guys, all holding t-shirts. And not another female in sight. Which leads me to a question--what are the demographics on this Ls? Randi's out there somewhere, right? And is Susan still around? I know Ive seen an Elinor. Are we really so few and far between? Is Robyn a guy thing? K, not a guy, well, at least not the last time she checked. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:00:42 -0800 From: Brett Cooper Subject: Re: (aka Barleycorn Death Foretold),Nazz, just for fun on 10/13/00 7:18AM, Eric Loehr at loehr@javanet.com wrote: >> I thought the Nazz was Todd Rundgren, not Alice Cooper - who am I >> thinking of? > > I also thought the Nazz was Todd R. - - either Mike and I are right or our > memory cells are just at about the same rate of deterioration -- can anyone > tell us what we're thinking? ;-}} Could Alice Cooper also have been > called the Nazz? You've pretty much got it straight. When the boys realized that they shared the same name with Todd Rundgren's band, they were on the lookout for a new name. Hence Alice Cooper. Another interesting Todd/Alice fact: Alice re-recorded his songs, "Pain" and "Road Rats" for the Roadie soundtrack with Utopia. Very cool versions that surpass the originals, IMO. We work this band 'case we make it rock... Brett ******************************************** Cooper Collections http://home.gci.net/~coopercollections ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:35:43 +0930 From: corin lang Subject: FWD: how to hear 1970s BBC radio archives -to date Hi there fegs I was sent the following forward recently and asked if I could encourage people to follow this up , so UK fegs if you want to go for it. see below . . also while I'm at it . Latest news updates on my web site The Archive : -the history of 60s and 70s UK Rock Festivals Phun City festival web site has been extensively updated and the Isle of Wight festival 1968-70 pages will be online in a week or so. Also there is now a huge swag of king crimson and jack bruce pix from the hyde park 1971 free festival at http://users.senet.com.au/~tortoise/index.html go hither to view all this and more dreadful boring shit that could only possibly of interest to shrivelled up old ex -hippies like Godwin and myself commander lang ( those of you who remember me may think -or fervently hope -I had disappeared for good but be warned , I AM watching your goings on on a very irregular basis and if I feel you have become too normal for your own collective good I WILL RETURN -so watch it ! ) ........................................................... FWD how to hear 1970s archives -to date I have for a couple of years been debating with controllers, producers and presenters at BBC radio re. the need for Rock music to be given greater coverage. Via your web site + print-based newsletter please can you invite your fans to join the RockOnRadio debating facility? There are 3 aspects : 1) BBC Digital Radio 1.5, raiders of the BBC archives! Until mid-November 2000 the BBC has a "public consultation" for licence payers to complete a questionnaire indicating whether or not they approve of the aim for launch in 2001 of 5 new digital radio services. Radio 1.5 is a working title for the service featuring music and performance styled somewhere in between that played on Radios 1 and 2. The main content is to be archive sessions, concerts, interviews and album tracks that formed "the best influential music from the 1970s to the present day". Also proposed are new interviews with musicians talking about their work + presenting features. If fans want contemporary coverage for their favourite Rock musicians, they need to specify it in space provided on the questionnaire. It's available by telephoning 0800 011 011 (free call, within UK). Having consulted the public to help tailor their manifesto, the BBC will forward the proposal to the British government's Department of Culture, Media and Sport. Assuming the Secretary of State gives the go-ahead, Radio 1.5 may be available as early as next April via digital radio, the Internet and digital satellite. Further details via RockOnRadio web site http://www.geocities.com/rockonradiouk/ or email TizwinHay@rockonradio.co.uk or write to T. Hay, 13 The Court, Bury Fields, Guildford, GU2 4BA, England (enclosing SAE, or if resident outside the UK enclose an IRC from any Post Office). 2) Rock show needed for BBC Radio 2 Radio 2 is available throughout the UK (88 - 91FM), via satellite well into Europe, and world-wide online at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/ and presenters now include Nicky Horne, Johnnie Walker, Bob Harris, Steve Wright. Radio 2's online message board welcomes posts from fans who wish to join the thread titled "Rock show needed for Radio 2". Word is Rock currently is excluded due to a belief women don't enjoy Rock on radio. Fans who know different can enlighten the Beeb! Very few people take the trouble to influence radio broadcasters. Perhaps it's not fully realised the BBC, as a publicly-funded facility, does adjust services according to majority opinion. Each individual communication is generally taken to represent the opinion of 200 members of Radio 2's seven million listeners across the UK + extras via the 'net. Want to get involved? Visit the Radio 2 web site and select Message Boards (near the top right-hand corner). Then select "Radio 2", and see the thread titled "Rock show needed for Radio 2" (Message 561 - it may be necessary to select "Previous Threads" in the bottom right-hand corner of the page). Note ~ you need to register your name and email address before making your first ever post, and no e-address or web site URL can be included in posts. Please also invite friends of yours who live in the UK and enjoy any kind of Rock music. Comments you may wish to include : What day + time would you like to hear a rock show? Who would be best as presenter? What ideas do you have for a rock show title? Would women feel alienated if rock shows take 2 - 4 hours per week of broadcast time, or do they enjoy rock on radio as much or more than men? Your age-group (early-20s, mid-30s, late-40s) Number of your friends likely to tune-in 3) What other Rock on radio + 'net facilities do fans recommend? New debating facility RockOnRadio welcomes messages to be instantly posted and read at http://www.egroups.com/group/rockonradio Digests are also available via email. Tiz Tizwin.Hay@rockonradio.co.uk RockOnRadio http://www.geocities.com/rockonradiouk/ + eGroup http://www.egroups.com/group/rockonradio ProgressForum http://www.geocities.com/progressforum/ 13 The Court, Bury Fields, Guildford, GU2 4BA, England ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:27:42 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Liberty and Libertarians Stewart C. Russell: >how does libertarianism address the paradox: > - I have the right to do what I want > - You have the right to do what you want > - What if your right to do what you want infringes my right to do what > I want? >Does every right come with a balancing responsibility? Pretty much every Libertarian would agree to this. The question would be where to put the boundary between liberty and license. - - Steve _______________ We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! - Andy Partridge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:27:35 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Lennon: What is to be done? Stewart C. Russell: >witness the new orthodoxy; you can surely spit on religion, piss on the >flag with impunity, but, boy!, are you fucked if you say you don't like >the Beatles... Nobody has to like the Beatles, but I think it's just reasonable to acknowledge the fact that they were a cultural force (pop and otherwise) that has yet to be equaled. - - Steve __________ "He's probably the least qualified person ever to be nominated by a major party ... What is his accomplishment? That he's no longer an obnoxious drunk? - Ron Reagan on George W. Bush ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #286 *******************************