From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #199 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, July 19 2000 Volume 09 : Number 199 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Buccleuch [digja611@student.otago.ac.nz] Re: PS ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: and now, we're talking about... [Michael R Godwin ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #196 [Michael R Godwin ] Anglophobic sheep in A minor ["Asa Land" ] speaking of orchestraville ["Scott Hunter McCleary" ] Re: Stone the quails [lj lindhurst ] Re: Reap: RH = 0% [Michael R Godwin ] Re: at the movies [Vivien Lyon ] buff guys from down under [Natalie Jacobs ] Re: St Petersburg/I often dream of trains (Robyn content 0%) [Christopher] Re: St Petersburg/I often dream of trains (Robyn content 0%) [lj lindhurs] Re: St Petersburg/I often dream of trains (Robyn content 0%) [Christopher] Re: buff guys from down under [ringostr@u.washington.edu] Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #196 [DDerosa5@aol.com] Re: buff guys from down under where? [Jason Thornton ] Re: Reap: and now, we're talking about... ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: at the movies [Capuchin ] by a commodius vicus of recirculation.... [The Great Quail Michael R Godwin wrote: >> >> Well, the LMS Pacific 'Duchess of Buccleuch' > >It is never spelt with a g here. Ever. yup - my fault. The local street is definitely Buccleuch. James ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:42:07 +0100 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: PS digja611@student.otago.ac.nz wrote: > > >* They Might Be Giants: "They Are Not Giants After All" > > Particle Man would be a great covers band name for them I think there is one called "But They're Actually Quite Small"; ISTR reading about it on a TMBG list for the three minutes I could stand it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:10:48 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: and now, we're talking about... > > how was _braveheart_ innacurate? On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > By being based on a romanticised victorian book, which took enormous > liberties with a very few sketchy facts. Pretty much like the whole > celtic movement. When my Scottish grandma was alive, she would regularly give me birthday presents of books with titles like 'Scotland the Brave', 'The Story of Scotland', 'The Auld Ballads', 'Tartans of the Highland Clans' etc. In all of these books, Sir William Wallace was portrayed as a crusader type knight in armour, chivalrous and well-born. I guess that this was less of a distortion than showing Wallace as a 3rd-century Pict, but who knows? - - Mike Godwin PS It was James that suggested 'Buccluegh', not me! n.p. Lobo: I'd love you to want me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:27:01 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #196 On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 digja611@student.otago.ac.nz wrote: > They've got to include "The Womble Burrow Boogie, too! Anyone klnow if the > Wombles stuff ever came out on CD? (seriously!) HMV are offering a CD entitled 'The best Wombles album so far' at £9.99. There are also a number of story books with accompanying cassette tapes, which presumably include performances by the Womblemeister and his cronies. Now, is there a 'Fraggle Rock' CD? - - Mike Godwin n.p. Lobo: Me & You & a dog named Boo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:46:07 EDT From: "Asa Land" Subject: Anglophobic sheep in A minor Do not insult Blues in A, it is a masterpiece, and of exceptionl value because, among other things, it proves the our beloved Bald Headed Cunt, unlike oh so many other Brits, dosnt have a stick up his ass. This is why people hate the Brits. Not because their atrocities are any worse or better than any other segment of humanities atrocities(nature red etc)but because they are so pathetic. They are subjects, not citizens, and they like it that way. If it wasnt for immigration there would be no paltable cheap food in all of England(alright, fish and chips are OK, but thats about it.) They line up naturally. They pay too much for everything. They dont get angry, they winge or get pompous. All over the world, people who are happy citizens of countries that have had the sense to thrown the assholes out are more than happy to watch movies where Mel Gibson is kind enough to remove the stick from said body part and thump them over the head with it. Its that simple. Once, long ago and far away, I spent a semester at LSE. Or rather, pretended to. Most of the time I spent with friends hitching around the Brit Isles and Europe. We wern't completely reckless and there was only one bad experience. In the home countries of course. Oxfordshire to be exact. An old guy picked us up, said he was heading to London, but drove us into the middle of nowhere and there dropped us off. My friend and I shouldered our packs and got ready for a long walk. This was Oxfordshire, right? Sooner or later we were bound to fall over civilization of some kind. After about 5 minutes I heard my friend let out an expletive. She was looking behind her, so I looked that way to. The old guy was up on a hill fucking a sheep. And smiling and waving at us. Nuff said. LordK(reverting to her earlier incarnation)Lord of the ... Land ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:57:45 -0700 From: "Scott Hunter McCleary" Subject: speaking of orchestraville I've got them down here for July 29 at the Galaxy Hut in trendy Arlington. Who's with me? It just might be the perfect way to celebrate the day after woj's birthday. - ---------------- Sent from a WebBox - http://www.webbox.com FREE Web based Email, Files, Bookmarks, Calendar, People and Great Ways to Share them with Others! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:56:13 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: Stone the quails I'm going to have to side with the Quail here, as well as Vince. Come on-- Oliver Stone may be a pompous ass, but he is definitely an artist worth reckoning with. I mean, hell, even if you don't like him, you have to give him the fact that he's at least *trying* to make something more than your average Hollywood formula film. And furthermore, I love this idea that he is presenting "mythological re-tellings." You go, Q! I couldn't have said it better myself (are you sure you didn't steal that phrase from me during one of my sake rambles?). He doesn't want to make a historical document by any means-- he has an almost child-like fascination with the American culture of his lifetime, and he wants to tell these stories. (I may not always appreciate his overbearing obsession with the 60's, however, but that seems to be the pitfall of all Boomers)(my apologies to Boomers)(no never mind, I take that back. Screw you Boomers!!! Taking all our social security!! Driving up our insurance rates!! Choking us with your stupid SUV's!! Telling us stuff like "Pot used to be a lot better in my day" and "I've actually tried mescaline"!! And *FOREVER* reliving the summer of fucking love!! Get over it!!)(no really, I'm sorry.) but anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yeah. Oliver Stone. In particular, I think the whole "I Love Mallory" scene in Natural Born Killers is absolutely BRILLIANT. Few sequences in modern film have so perfectly captured the dark underbelly of the myth of the TV family. I mean, who hasn't watched shows like "Married With Children" and gotten a creepy feeling about the dynamics between the extremely unlikeable father (magnified 100x by Stone's Rodney Dangerfield) and the somewhat inappropriately mature and sexual daughter? Of course, the character of Mallory is certainly no Christina Applegate, but it's still an incredibly creepy and ironic parallel when Stone plays the cheery music and adds the laugh track. But enough! lj >From: The Great Quail > >> I have this argument a lot, so I will be very brief. I think that >> Stone's movies do *not* present themselves as historical documents at >> all, but as mythological re-tellings; and not just in treatment, >> narrative and cinematography and all, but on a deeper level. Stone -- >> who I think is a genius -- has the knack for getting at the >> mythopoetic truth of his subjects, whether they be figures like Ron >> Kovic, Jim Morrison, JFK, Nixon, etc.; or concepts like the Viet Nam >> War, the media, serial killers, Wall Street.... He is in the business >> of documenting/creating modern American folklore, not shooting >> documentaries, and I think that is a lot more interesting. > >Oliver Stone is also part Injun, which will give you a loco as to where his >*storytelling* comes from ; ) > >"Natural Born Killers" is the best movie ever made, IMO. Not by the acting >(though Juliette Lewis certainly was the stand out) but by the editing, the >directing, and clever points thrown in. "I Love Mallory" and "American >Maniacs". The cruel and injust gets thrown up in the air and who is the >antogonist; Micky and Mallory Knox, or the Media? What a great concept. >Beautifuly done, from the cartoons to the prison riot. Excellent. > >Oliver Stone is most defintitely an artist first, filmmaker second. He >doesn't do Spielburg's attention to detail type of thing, he just creates a >feeling. > >Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:18:04 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Reap: RH = 0% > Christopher Gross wrote: > > we should > > also remember the Polish officers who brought early data about the Enigma > > machine to England as their country was being overrun in 1939.) And little thanks did the Poles get for their major contribution to the war effort. Once the UK had allied with the Russians, the Poles were elbowed out of wartime decision-making, and were not even invited to the victory celebrations in St Pauls. Meanwhile, the Russians were bumping off as many Polish officers as they could get their hands on. All in all, considered as a war to restore Polish independence, WWII was not a huge success ... - - Mike Godwin PS and don't get me started on that Toby Low - Harold Macmillan - Nikolai Tolstoy stuff - I haven't got a million and a half quid to spare! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:21:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: Re: at the movies - --- nyquilthotep wrote: > anyone else like x-men as much as i did? Hell yes! I liked it a lot, and will probably see it again. This of course has nothing to do with the fact that Wolverine makes my knees go weak. Seriously, though- I was pretty familiar with the X-Men mythos, and I thought they did a great job capturing the mood without slavishly replicating the look of the comic book. Vivien __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 08:36:19 -0700 From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: buff guys from down under > well, no...but some of it is. commodus was marcus aurelius' son and a > nero-like emperor. following his assasination, a soldier named septimius > severus won the resultant power struggle and had a lengthy (for that time, > anyway) reign... Commodus's sister was also involved in a plot against him, which didn't go anywhere. On the other hand, Commodus was not killed in the gladiator ring and, AFAIK, Marcus Aurelius had no intention of restoring the Republic. My father is a big Roman history buff, and as he recently had a heart attack (he's OK now), I told him not to go see "Gladiator." He went to see it anyway, and reported that it was the Roman equivalent of a movie about the American revolution that featured George Washington getting involved in the Watergate scandal. Apparently nearly every historical detail - apart from what was mentioned above - was totally wrong. I can't recall his entire explanation, though. > anyone else like x-men as much as i did? i never really followed the comic > book or tv series, but i was familiar enough with the mythos to make total > sense of the movie. Yeah, I got dragged to see it by a co-worker and was expecting it to be idiotic, but I ended up enjoying it a lot. It takes itself reasonably seriously (i.e. no campy one-liners or goofy overblown comic-book sets), and it's very entertaining. Ian McKellan was great, and I kept thinking of what a terrific Gandalf he's going to make. Of course, the main appeal for me was the guy who played Wolverine, who is *extremely* sexy. He's Australian, and the equally hot Russell Crowe is a Kiwi; James or Dlang, is it something in the water down there?? n. (moving to New Zealand ASAP) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:01:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: St Petersburg/I often dream of trains (Robyn content 0%) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 digja611@student.otago.ac.nz wrote: > >I've recently acquired a bizarre penchant for finding sinister retro-style > >old-school communist propaganda of former Eastern European Soviet-bloc > >countries (a very interesting sub-genre of Art, I must say) > > if you're interested in that kind of art, it's also worth checking out some > of the mural art painted in the US during the 30s. Much of that was > inspired by the same sources (and many of the artists were a bit redder > than the authorities would have liked...) Check out fascist propaganda, too; it's in the same vein. In fact, the site that Zloduska gave us has a few fascist posters among the Communist and Western ones. The Slovenian industrial group Laibach frequently mixes fascist and Communist propaganda images on their album covers, and you usually have to look pretty closely to distinguish the two. (This only applies to fascist propaganda poster art, and maybe some Italian fascist "fine art," but definitely not Nazi "fine art.") I think a lot of American commercial advertisements from that period are also pretty similar. > ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Ya know, you really don't need that apostrophe after "v" there, assuming you're writing in modern Russian. I couldn't resist pointing that out. - --Xpuc ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:10:15 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: St Petersburg/I often dream of trains (Robyn content 0%) >On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 digja611@student.otago.ac.nz wrote: > >> >I've recently acquired a bizarre penchant for finding sinister retro-style >> >old-school communist propaganda of former Eastern European Soviet-bloc >> >countries (a very interesting sub-genre of Art, I must say) Chris says: >> if you're interested in that kind of art, it's also worth checking out some >> of the mural art painted in the US during the 30s. Much of that was >> inspired by the same sources (and many of the artists were a bit redder >> than the authorities would have liked...) Also, you may want to check out the artist Rodchenko. He pretty much set the standard for that sort of thing. (And I love him for proclaiming that ART IS DEAD!) me again... lj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: St Petersburg/I often dream of trains (Robyn content 0%) On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, lj lindhurst wrote: > Chris says: >> if you're interested in that kind of art, it's also worth checking out some You've accidentally attributed James Dignan's words to me, which is unfair to him though a compliment to me! Rodchenko-likingly yours, Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:43:14 -0800 From: ringostr@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: buff guys from down under > and the equally hot Russell Crowe is a Kiwi; James or Dlang, is > itsomething in the water down there?? I believe Russell Crowe is 100% aussie! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:10:57 EDT From: DDerosa5@aol.com Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #196 In a message dated 7/18/00 2:55:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org writes: > I guess Hollywood figures a true American patriot fights for > blood revenge, not representative government or national self > determination, let alone anything as wimpy as freedom. by this I assume you mean "freedom from taxes"--what could be more American than that? Pynchon handles this very well in Mason & Dixon by the way. Blood isn't thicker than money... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:14:13 -0700 From: Jason Thornton Subject: Re: buff guys from down under where? At 09:43 AM 7/19/00 -0800, ringostr@u.washington.edu wrote: > > and the equally hot Russell Crowe is a Kiwi; James or Dlang, is > > itsomething in the water down there?? > >I believe Russell Crowe is 100% aussie! The Internet Movie DataBase claims that the studly Mr. Crowe was born in Wellington, New Zealand but "has made his home in Australia since he was a small child." So, I guess that would make him ethnically a New Zealander and an Australian citizen (or resident, at the least). - --Jason "only extraterrestrial visitation could explain this kind of pain" Thornton "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:09:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: Reap: and now, we're talking about... - --- "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > So nationalism is wrong, unless it's your kind of nationalism. OIC... Isn't that more or less true by definition? Drew ===== Andrew D. Simchik: drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:15:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: at the movies - --- Vivien Lyon wrote: > > I liked it a lot, and will probably see it again. This of course > has nothing to do with the fact that Wolverine makes my knees go > weak. From what I've seen Cyclops is more my type. > Seriously, though- I was pretty familiar with the X-Men > mythos, and I thought they did a great job capturing the mood > without slavishly replicating the look of the comic book. I must admit I'm torn on that point. While I don't expect every comic book movie to feature brightly colored leotards, I tend to view the translation of every costume into as much black latex as possible to be a bit of a cop-out. When I learned that all of the X-Men would be so clad I viewed it as the certain harbinger of suckage. But I'm pleased to hear that this was not the case, so I look forward to seeing the movie this week sometime. Drew ===== Andrew D. Simchik: drew at stormgreen dot com http://www.stormgreen.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:44:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: at the movies I'll chime in on X-Men. First, I think movies that are very clearly going to be franchises should have more creative titles. Where would we be if Raiders of the Lost Ark had been called Indiana Jones? It gives you nowhere to go with the titles. You see so many movies named after the main character when the movie is just another event in the obviously long chain of interesting events in that person's life... so why not name the movie after the event instead of the person? I don't mind the Name: Title convention, though. On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Andrew D. Simchik wrote: > --- Vivien Lyon wrote: > > I liked it a lot, and will probably see it again. This of course > > has nothing to do with the fact that Wolverine makes my knees go > > weak. > >From what I've seen Cyclops is more my type. Who was it that said "Cyclops is as gay as we all knew he was"? I read that in a review somewhere. > I must admit I'm torn on that point. While I don't expect > every comic book movie to feature brightly colored leotards, > I tend to view the translation of every costume into as much > black latex as possible to be a bit of a cop-out. When I > learned that all of the X-Men would be so clad I viewed it > as the certain harbinger of suckage. This is an important point. The black latex is certainly tired, but you can't make yellow leotards do what they're supposed to do. The closest thing to the comic would be just painting the bodies of the actors and applying a little liquid latex where... um... things bump out and then adding bikini briefs. This would be very difficult to do correctly. However, you also see shit like Warren Beatty's Dick Tracy and the like where real people are running around cardboard sets. I can't recall an instance where this was done well and to good effect. The people always look out of place and the whole thing comes off as a gag. The worst of the sort is probably the type where everything's a joke about the origin of the story. The last two Batman films are right up there (however, the line "no, they're probably halfway to metropolis by now" was a nice subtle touch). X-Men only has one such joke. There is some minor re-arranging of some of the character's ages to make people fit differently, but that's not a huge deal (considering how inconsistent those things can be in the comics as well). The one-liners are all appropriate and in-character. And the world is really well-realized. I think if the stories are continually of high quality, X-Men movies could be a real treat every couple of years. But we know how big studios are just afraid of their audiences and indecisive and foolish, so likely we'll see a second film that's a piece of shit and that'll be that. > But I'm pleased to hear that this was not the case, so I look > forward to seeing the movie this week sometime. Yeah, let me know what you think (sheesh, do I really have to say that to Drew Simchik?). - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:53:14 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: by a commodius vicus of recirculation.... Natalie says, >Commodus's sister was also involved in a plot against him, which didn't go >anywhere. On the other hand, Commodus was not killed in the gladiator ring >and, AFAIK, Marcus Aurelius had no intention of restoring the Republic. > >My father is a big Roman history buff, and as he recently had a heart attack >(he's OK now), I told him not to go see "Gladiator." He went to see it >anyway, and reported that it was the Roman equivalent of a movie about the >American revolution that featured George Washington getting involved in the >Watergate scandal. Apparently nearly every historical detail - apart from >what was mentioned above - was totally wrong. I can't recall his entire >explanation, though. Well, yes, there are many many errors and fabrications -- but Ridley Scott was aware of this, and wanted to make a movie that reflected the popular image of gladiators, not the historical realities. So I could forgive it and just relax and enjoy! (I am, by the way, a huge Roman history buff.)(EPIC! You know . . . epic!!!) A few fun facts: 1. Despite Hollywood's misconception, a thumbs-up meant DEATH! "Give 'em life" was actually a two-fingered gesture, IIRC. And gladiator combat was rarely as spectacular as in the movies, because it was so rarely to the grim death -- they were more like today's football heros, with endorsement contracts and all. A famous gladiator was feted by all of society, high and low. 2. Marcus Aurelius, a fairly enlightened fellow, most decidedly did NOT want to restore the long-antiquated Republic, and he had no reservations about his son, who was nowhere near him when he died, and had been understood as his successor from the age of 5. 3. Commodus was one of the more controversial emperors. On one hand, he was badly tempered, and a bit nuts; on the other, he really knew the people well. Depending on your source, he was either the last gasp of the Empire before dissolution, or he helped bring it down himself. Far from being a prissy and effete fellow like in the movie, he was fairly robust, and had quite a group of women and concubines, which I always thought was one of the definite perks of being an Emperor. (That, and getting to see quails on all the coins.) The senate despised Commodus for several pretty solid reasons. First of all, he increased taxes on the rich to pay for his programs with the poor. Second of all, he flew into rages and had many of the senate executed, who, to be fair, were often conspiring against him. (And, yes, one of those bouts of conspiracy did involve his sister Lucilla.) He also liked to play to the crowd, and would rather see a patrician lynched then allow his ratings slip. He was suspicious, vicious, vain, and feckless; but he was loved by the masses, especially at the beginning of his reign, when he brought an end to the Germanic conflicts and eased up on the persecution of Christians. He knew how to play the "bread and circuses" card; but more importantly, he gave Rome a sense of popular rebirth. Of course, being a raving egomaniac, he had all the months re-named after his many names and titles, and named just about everything in site "Somethingus Commodius." As far as being nuts goes, well, he did groove pretty seriously on Hercules, and occasionally dressed in a lion skin. He also loved gladiatorial combat; indeed, he often went into the ring, and did quite well against humans, as well as lions and tigers and bears, oh my. (Though who knows? The fix might have been in, and the animals were probably drugged.) In fact, he appeared dressed as a gladiator for several official functions, which raised a few eyebrows. Towards the end of his reign, his support began slipping, as fiscal mismanagement, general recklessness, and increasing monomania bit into his popularity. He was assassinated by a popular wrestler named Narcissus, who was working for a cabal that included one of his mistresses. He was strangled in his bathtub. The presence of a rubber duckie may or may not be inferred. - --Qualius Maximus Cheepius - -- +---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:27:39 -0700 From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: from Portland's own Willamette Week... Robyn Hitchcock Tribute Night/ Cone Exhibition A packet of locals kneel beneath the graven image of He Who Cannot Be Fathomed, the hyper-quizzical popnaut who began his career as a strange young punk before scaling heights of absurdity. Fine Portland singer/strummers like Colin Meloy, Ezra Holbrook and Jen Bernard will supplement Robyn's writings. And check this out: The evening includes an exhibition of the Northwest's largest collection of Hitchcock's "cones," orange construction pylons Hitchcock decorates with bizarre images of vegetables, seafood and globes and passes out after shows. Weird, yet cool--just as intended. (ZD) Mad Hatter Lounge, 203 SE Grand Ave., 231-2925. 9:30 pm Saturday, July 22. No cover. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 12:50:30 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: from Portland's own Willamette Week... By the way, does Willamette Week still suck? I used to read it occasionally when i was working at the mail room in Suzallo Library. Have the new weeklies that the Seattle Weekly and Stranger people are planning for Portland launched yet? if yes how are they? Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 16:00:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Reap: and now, we're talking about... On Wed, 19 Jul 2000, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > However, since nationalist propaganda annoys me (with > > partial exceptions for the Irish and Czechs) > > So nationalism is wrong, unless it's your kind of nationalism. OIC... No, no, it's always wrong; it just doesn't annoy me as much when my favorite small downtrodden nations do it. Analogy: I don't like being called "dude," but it's less annoying when it's one of my best friends who's doing it. (BTW, it's nationalist propaganda that annoys me, not nationalism per se. Nationalists can be okay as long as they aren't essentialist nationalists, aren't xenophobic, and don't use nationalism as an excuse for dictatorship, aggression, etc.) - --Dude ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #199 *******************************