From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #197 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, July 18 2000 Volume 09 : Number 197 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: and now, we're talking about... [The Great Quail ] Re: Soft Boys (big news!) ["elizabeth " ] Re: Soft Boys (big news!) [Vivien Lyon ] Re: and now, we're talking about... ["JH3" ] Re: Correia [Eb ] movie history [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Hear Music, Starbucks, Iggy, Canada and Me [tim fuller but not yet randi ] Re: Hear Music, Stardusts, Iggy, Canada and Me [Jason Thornton ] Re: Correia ["elizabeth " ] Cover Girl [Michael Wolfe ] Re: movie history ["J. Brown" ] Stone the quails [The Great Quail ] The Limey [Michael Wolfe ] The Great Cover Up [Glen Uber ] Saving Ryan's Privates [The Great Quail ] Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! [Eb ] Re: Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! [Glen Uber ] Re: Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! [Eclipse ] Re: Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! ["J. Brown" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:11:44 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: and now, we're talking about... Just to add to Chris comprehensive list, the place, as well as the time, Edward I "Call me Longshanks" died is quite inaccurate. He actually died while on campaign against those pesky Scots. - --Quail I - -- +---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:46:09 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Soft Boys (big news!) >Underwater Moonlight >to be reissued on Editions PAF! early 2001 to coincide with this. Jeez...a shame that an album so great would be relegated to a no-distribution, DIY label. Though if EPAF is officially categorized as an "import" label, maybe a US imprint could still pick it up? Random hype: Just heard/interviewed a new artist named Amy Correia. Her album (Carnival Love) will come out on Odeon/Capitol, but not until September. Currently, an Altavista search for her name yields just *29* hits, but this number's gonna bloooooooom once the album comes out. I can't predict whether she'll sell well or not, but she's definitely going to be a "critic's fave." Great stuff -- among the best three or four releases I've heard this year. The music? Imagine Rickie Lee Jones singing Victoria Williams songs, with a bit of Mary Hopkin and just a teensy speck of Sheryl Crow. Yeah, yeah...I know. But really, you don't have to be an Ectowuss to like her. ;) She's currently touring as part of that somewhat distasteful "Girls Room" package (sponsored by *Stayfree*) with three other capital-F Female artists, but try not to let this scare you off. She's the real deal. You'll see, once the album is released.... Eb np: Super Furry Animals: Mwng ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:20:54 -0400 From: "elizabeth " Subject: Re: Soft Boys (big news!) - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Eb >Random hype: Just heard/interviewed a new artist named Amy Correia. Her >album (Carnival Love) will come out on Odeon/Capitol, but not until >September. Currently, an Altavista search for her name yields just *29* >hits, but this number's gonna bloooooooom once the album comes out. I can't >predict whether she'll sell well or not, but she's definitely going to be a >"critic's fave." Great stuff -- among the best three or four releases I've >heard this year. The music? Imagine Rickie Lee Jones singing Victoria >Williams songs, with a bit of Mary Hopkin and just a teensy speck of Sheryl >Crow. Yeah, yeah...I know. But really, you don't have to be an Ectowuss to >like her. ;) She's currently touring as part of that somewhat distasteful >"Girls Room" package (sponsored by *Stayfree*) with three other capital-F >Female artists, but try not to let this scare you off. She's the real deal. >You'll see, once the album is released.... I wholeheartedly agree. With that whole paragraph, I mean. I haven't heard the record yet, but am thrilled to hear she finally has one coming out (she's had several major-label deals, all of which have fallen apart). I've been seeing her play live for about three years now and whatever It is, she has It. Pretty much everyone I've talked to has the same reaction when they first see her - first, you think she's listened to way too much Rickie Lee Jones, then three songs in you've completely forgotten that because her songs are so damn good. Also, the "Girls Room" tour alarms me to no end, especially when I think of those poor women having to sit through sets by Kendall Payne over and over and over. (When I saw her play she was only 15 or so, so I guess there's a possibility she's become less annoying with age, but frankly, I don't care.) - -- Elizabeth ************ listen to SmartToons Radio at http://www.fringehead.com/smarttoons - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:18:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: Re: Soft Boys (big news!) - --- Jason Thornton wrote: > For whatever it's worth, if you do form a cover band, you are > obligated (by > law, I think) to use the phrase "A TRIBUTE TO" *whenever* you > are referring > to the original artist whose work you are covering. Thanks for the the tip; however, all those cover bands exist merely in our imagination, and god willing, will remain there. But as for our _real_ band (or, rather, our provisional gathering of musicians), we'll be playing the Tribute to Robyn Hitchcock this weekend in Portland. We're doing Dark Green Energy (to showcase our beautiful voices), Listening to the Higsons (to showcase our phony English accents) and Only the Stones Remain (to showcase our ability to rock). Viva Portland, Vivien __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:28:12 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: and now, we're talking about... >Just to add to Chris comprehensive list, the place, as well as the >time, Edward I "Call me Longshanks" died is quite inaccurate. He >actually died while on campaign against those pesky Scots. What's more, it was Robert the Bruce *himself*, not his predecessor John Balliol, who caught leprosy and died - and long after the events in the film. Balliol was out of the picture as early as 1296, and had already retired to France by 1299. And the final battle in the film supposedly takes place at Bannockburn, but the real battle of Bannockburn didn't happen until 1314, almost 10 years after Wallace's death! Even worse, shortly before the battle scene, Robert the Bruce is shown grooving to a CD of Boyz II Men's "Evolution" album, which wasn't even *released* until 1997! OTOH, I should point out that Wallace *was* drawn and quartered (remember, I was there), so they at least got that part right. That scene was probably the primary impetus for making the movie in the first place, now that I think about it. Now, if you want to see a movie with some *accuracy*, I'd suggest "Monty Python's Life of Brian." JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:37:31 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Correia Elizabeth: >I've been seeing her play live for about three years now and whatever It >is, she has It. Pretty much >everyone I've talked to has the same reaction >when they first see her - first, you think she's listened to >way too much >Rickie Lee Jones, then three songs in you've completely forgotten that >because her songs are >so damn good. Seeing Elizabeth, ever-zealous devotee of L.A.'s Triple-A pop scene, endorse Correia reminds me of another relevant tidbit worth mentioning: Correia said many of her pre-Girls Room performances were at Largo, noted venue for Robyn Hitchcock shows and prissy, primadonna waiters. Actually, I even mentioned recently seeing Hitchcock/GLP to Correia, because she asked me if I had ever seen Jon Brion. She came back with some strong praise for GLP, but didn't say a word about RH. Hm. ;) As for Correia having other label deals fall through, I don't know. But she said she has been signed to Capitol for two years now.... Eb np: Marshmallow Coast ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:47:30 EDT From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: movie history I loved the Patriot. It is Emmerich's(sp?) best film to date. I highly recommend it for anyone wanting to see a great film. You gotta love a good piece of fiction. For some crazy reason, I get more upset about a film like The Doors, which in my opinion presented itself as a historical document. Maybe it's because it involved people who are still alive, but that to me was totally irresponsible. Go figure Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:04:34 -0400 From: tim fuller but not yet randi spiegel Subject: Hear Music, Starbucks, Iggy, Canada and Me The 'Universal' me, course. Soooo much to say about the Hear Music thing, but my editing skills are out to pasture right now so more on this v. soon. Anyhow... I am a manager of a Hear Music in Toronto. There are actually *five* of them here which all a part of Chapters - the Canadian equivalent of Barnes & Nobles or Borders or whatever. Oh, yes, Powell's too!). We have exactly the same physical setup of H.M. as down there (ask Randi, who has seen it on both sides of our happily undefended border). We also have strong feature/new release buying advice from the Hear Music Mothership. All our artwork and other in-store promotional stuff also come from San Fran. The Hear Music 'chain' in the U.S. - as of Nov. 98 or so - was only about three or four stores. Three in California, one in Chicago. There are actually about three times as many Hear Music locations up here then down there. It was (and still is I have to guess) the most professional 'lil' indie store' I had ever seen. This is not a bad thing. The guys who ran the show (most of whom I met when we were opening up the 'flagship' store in T.O.) are all relatively young (maybe hitting mid-30s by now?). They are all fanatical about music and know their stuff, trust me. The concept of taking somewhat obscure names (with a distinct emphasis on new and cool folk/roots stuff) and pushing them to the front of the rack (complete with glib but otherwise well-meaning reviews) is subversive and quite wonderful. Hear Music was purchased by Starbucks about six months ago or so. (This does not affect Chapters licensing of Hear Music in Canada, for those of you keeping score at home). I have no real idea of what's going on with our corporate cousins to the south, but I have no reason to think that Starbucks is planning on turning H.M. into anything more than a bigger version of what it is already. And that's not a bad thing in my opinion. How many stores have their displays organized by theme? How about 'Troubled Troubadours'? This 'feature' (or, 'story' as we are supposed to call them) features such disposable bubblegum artists as Nick Drake, Vic Chessnut, Mark Eitzel, Richard & Linda Thompson, Townes Van Zandt. Marianne Faithfull and Nirvana. The 'stories' and the titles that go with, are designed specifically to say "This is good music and you should hear this!". It does not say, "You've seen the dancers in that music video, now you can buy the CD for $12.99*!" (*CDN dollars, about $9.00 U.S. Canada has the cheapest CD's in the world). I sold about forty copies of 'Return of the Grievous Angel' (Gram Parsons Tribute) simply by playing it in store on regular rotation with other Top Forty hits as Ali Farke Toure, Snakefarm, Kate Rusby, Cesaria Evora and Josh Rouse (which is quite wonderful), among many others. (Oh, yes - the Femi Kuti rocks!) I doubt that any of the people who bought the GP (or any of the other titles listed) had heard of these folks before. They heard it. They liked it. They bought it. What a concept! (Bestseller as we speak, DJ Cheb i Sabbah - "Shri Durga": Indian classical music in an ambient groove.) Yes, Hear Music is a slick operation. But it is a revolutionary (and, again I add, subversive) music retail concept and I say hooray to that. More on this later (errr, probably). Response to Eb re: Iggy stuff New Values, Soldier and Party are all the 'Arista-era' stuff and they have classics and filler side by side. New Values (with a rather obscurely portrayed cover of Iggy amongst young ballet dancers, thus his 'new values'?) has 'Girls', and 'I'm Bored' - both of which (as I'm sure you know) are hall of fame material. 'Solider' has 'Dog Food' and - one of my favourite songs in the history of this world and any other - 'Play It Safe'. 'Party' has 'Bang Bang' and 'Pumpin' For Jill' which are also classic Iggy, though the rest of it is fun but not crucial. New Values has James Williamson (Stooges) Soldier has Glen Matlock (S.P's), Ivan Kral (errr, Patty Smith I believe) and Barry Andrews (XTC and Shriekback). These titles had been out on Arista/RCA/BMG/etc in the U.K and Europe many years ago. Re: British Backlash The U.S. is on an anti-British kick because its anti-Canada phase was so short and unfulfilling! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:28:31 -0700 From: Jason Thornton Subject: Re: Hear Music, Stardusts, Iggy, Canada and Me At 05:04 PM 7/18/00 -0400, tim fuller but not yet randi spiegel wrote: >The Hear Music 'chain' in the U.S. - as of Nov. 98 or so - was only >about three or four stores. Three in California, one in Chicago. The Hear Music store in Santa Monica is located on the 3rd Street Promenade, correct? I just realized that I've probably visited the shop in question a few times before... >'Solider' has 'Dog Food' and - one of my favourite songs in the history >of this world and any other - 'Play It Safe'. "Play It Safe" is one of the many brilliant David Bowie/Iggy Pop collaborations, by the way. - --Jason "historically accurate like 'The King and I'" the Jasonster "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:34:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: The Limey On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, The Great Quail wrote: > >The German director > >apparently thought it would be a keen idea to use Nazi atrocities and > >pretend that the British did the same things 200 years earlier (maybe he > >has some evidence, but I doubt it). > > That's a bit of an exaggeration -- I don't recall seeing any death > camps. The Nazis do not have a monopoly on atrocities, and the > British have a fair scorecard of their own. As do the Americans, both I think the attrocity in question is the burning of churches which the Nazi Germans did do and was never done and would never be done by the British in the 18th Century. Now if they had been Muslim temples sure but not Protestant Christian churches. Also there was very few attrocities commimted by the british in this war, most of the attrocities were commited by loyalist and rebel civilians upon each other not by the armies. > One of my favorite lines in the movie was by Cornwallis, when he told > Evil Guy to go easy, as after the war they would have to have > commerce with the Americans. I only wish the rest of the film could > have been as well-versed in realpolitik. If it had it would have been more accurate and less simplistic. Personally i thought the most apalling thing in the film was the whitewashing of the slavery issue. If they wanted to avoid it why not set the film in the north instead where it could be more ealiy ignored. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:46:30 -0400 From: "elizabeth " Subject: Re: Correia - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Eb >Seeing Elizabeth, ever-zealous devotee of L.A.'s Triple-A pop scene Gee, I never thought of myself that way before. :-) My boyfriend thinks I listen to almost nothing but Australians. I'm going home to arrange my CD collection geographically and figure out my regional bias! >As for Correia having other label deals fall through, I don't know. But she >said she has been signed to Capitol for two years now.... Now that I'm thinking about it harder, I think only one deal - maybe with Virgin - actually fell through. There was something funky going on with Capitol back when I would have been aware of that sort of thing, but I don't remember what it was; obviously, they haven't dropped her. - -- Elizabeth ************ listen to SmartToons Radio at http://www.fringehead.com/smarttoons - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:27:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: Cover Girl >Natalie and I no longer have to form a Soft Boys cover band >(Vyrna Knowl and the Headbangers) in order to hear the songs >live! This leaves only our Elvis Costello cover band (Shabby >Doll) to concentrate on. Oh yes, and our XTC cover band >(Brainiac's Daughter). Not to mention our Neutral Milk Hotel >cover band (Two-Headed Girl) and our Minders cover band (Chatty >Patty). What, you can't hear The Minders' songs performed live whenever you darn well want to? - -Michael (Who's off to go work on his Sepultura cover band, Dead Embryonic Cells.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:47:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: movie history On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: > I loved the Patriot. It is Emmerich's(sp?) best film to date. I highly > recommend it for anyone wanting to see a great film. > > You gotta love a good piece of fiction. I don't think anyone would be complaining if they werent bragging about how historically accurate the film is. Hell Mel gibson is on the cover of Smithsonian Magazine! Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 17:59:09 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Stone the quails >For some crazy reason, I get more upset about a film like The Doors, which in >my opinion presented itself as a historical document. Maybe it's because it >involved people who are still alive, but that to me was totally irresponsible. I have this argument a lot, so I will be very brief. I think that Stone's movies do *not* present themselves as historical documents at all, but as mythological re-tellings; and not just in treatment, narrative and cinematography and all, but on a deeper level. Stone -- who I think is a genius -- has the knack for getting at the mythopoetic truth of his subjects, whether they be figures like Ron Kovic, Jim Morrison, JFK, Nixon, etc.; or concepts like the Viet Nam War, the media, serial killers, Wall Street.... He is in the business of documenting/creating modern American folklore, not shooting documentaries, and I think that is a lot more interesting. - --Quail - -- +---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:31:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: The Limey >Well . . . I mean, it *was* about the Revolutionary War. I mean, >it's not really going to be pro-British, is it? Of course, I >realize that a better film will tend to humanize the enemy -- >such as "Saving Private Ryan," Oh, Quail. I love you like a frat brother. But I must say that this last comment has completely ghasted my flabber. Would you care to tell me how "Private Ryan" humanized Germans? SPOILER WARNING! In the film I saw, the only image we got of Germans for the first half of the film was one of concrete pill boxes raining death down on squeaky-clean American boys. We don't actually get a German character -- an actual *face* -- until the raid on the radar station, when the squad takes a prisoner. And then when this character is released, Spielberg basically paints him as the incarnation of evil by having him come back to the squad *and be the very one to kill Captain Miller* (the character responsible for setting him free in the first place!!) The message is that the squad was *wrong* to do the humane thing, to follow the rules of war, and to let the guy go, and by extension, that the German prisoners *should* have been gunned down. So, tell me, please, how that constitutes "humanizing." - -Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:23:59 -0700 From: Glen Uber Subject: The Great Cover Up On 18.07.2000 14:27, Michael Wolfe wrote: > (Who's off to go work on his Sepultura cover band, Dead Embryonic > Cells.) I've been in two cover/tribute bands in my life. The first was a Cream/Eric Clapton cover band called "Badge" in which I sang and played bass. The second was a Grateful Dead tribute band called "Babblefish" for which I was the keyboardist (which might explain my short stint with the band). Neither was "my band" as such: I was just a hired gun along for the ride. I have thought of putting together other tribute bands: * Gram Parsons/Flying Burrito Brothers tribute: "Hot Burrito," "Burrito Deluxe," or "Gilded Palace of Sin" * Todd Rundgren/Utopia tribute band: "Something/Anything" * 10cc tribute band: "Worst Band In The World" would be too easy, not to mention a death knell for the success of the band. "Rubber Bullets" would make a cool name, as would "Deceptive Bends" or "Bloody Tourists". * Soft Boys/Robyn Hitchcock tribute: "Leppo and the Jooves" of course! * Elvis Costello: "This Year's Model" * The Police: "Gordon and Summer Stew" (say it aloud if you don't get the vocal pun right away) * They Might Be Giants: "They Are Not Giants After All" * Parliament/Funkadelic: "Claude Fink and Partial Men" (it's an anagram) Okay, time to stop now. Stop your snickering. I'm an insomniac and I think of these things while trying to get to sleep. Cheers! - -g- "Kids are the best! You can teach them to hate the same things you hate. And these days they pretty much raise themselves, what with the Internet and all." --Homer Simpson +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Glen Uber uberg@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/~uberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:43:36 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Saving Ryan's Privates >Oh, Quail. I love you like a frat brother. But I must say that >this last comment has completely ghasted my flabber. Would you >care to tell me how "Private Ryan" humanized Germans? SPOILERS I think Señor Steven Spielbergo did a good job of showing that the Germans were just soldiers, too, with a grim job to do. I think of a few scenes: 1. After the Allies successfully win the beach, the Germans surrender, and the Allies mow them down anyway. Despite the pounding you just viscerally experienced with the troops, you sort of feel shocked at that -- but you also understand it. I think that does a lot to throw into focus that Jerry is human, and that war de-humanizes. 2. That guy who surrenders is fairly likeable. Yes, he comes back, and he kills the fellow who set him free. Evil? Yes -- but what about the Americans that almost greased him? And would an American do the same thing? Is it evil in the context of the War itself? 3. That scene where the German knifes the Brooklyn boy, which is harrowing enough to give me nightmares -- the way he seems almost surprised and frightened himself, even to the point of shushing his victim. Then he totally skips over the GI in the hall. I thought the horror of that scene relied on the fact there were two human beings trying to kill each other, not just a rah-rah GI and an evil Nazi mit die Kill kill kill ja ja ja! After writing this, I think I may see that instead of saying "humanizing" I meant something more like "portraying them as humans," or at least as human as the US soldiers.... Just an opinion, I can't say I feel terribly strongly one way or another.... Though despite the hokey score, some hokey dialogue, and the fairly pedestrian plot, I really liked "Ryan." - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 15:53:40 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! Quail: >>[Oliver] Stone -- who I think is a genius Are you sure you didn't mean to say "pedagogical, bulldozing shithead"? Go on, Quail, name 20 artists (film, literature, music, etc.) you like who are focused on "intimacy" rather than being BIGBIGBIG. ;) 1. Robyn Hitchcock 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. ;) Eb, who, if ordered to exterminate one film director on Earth, would probably opt for Oliver Stone (well, maybe Adrian Lyne...) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:06:04 -0700 From: Glen Uber Subject: Re: Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! On 18.07.2000 15:53, Eb wrote: > Eb, who, if ordered to exterminate one film director on Earth, would > probably opt for Oliver Stone (well, maybe Adrian Lyne...) Personally, I'd say James Cameron or Paul Verhoeven. Of course, Gus Van Sandt should be exterminated on principle alone after that Psycho remake. Cheers! - -g- "Kids are the best! You can teach them to hate the same things you hate. And these days they pretty much raise themselves, what with the Internet and all." --Homer Simpson +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Glen Uber uberg@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/~uberg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:10:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Eclipse Subject: Re: Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! > Eb, who, if ordered to exterminate one film director on Earth, would > probably opt for Oliver Stone (well, maybe Adrian Lyne...) Adrian Lyne?! his remake of Lolita is just stuning, imo. and Jacob's Ladder - that movie blew me away (not to mention i'm in love with Tim Robbins, but)! c'mon, we can all agree, i'm sure.. how about Jerry Bruckheimer, or Howard Longo? surely they deserve this most dubious of honors.. - - Eclipse np: Space Ghost's Musical Bar-B-Que ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: Epics...give me EPICS, goddamn it!! tOn Tue, 18 Jul 2000, Glen Uber wrote: > On 18.07.2000 15:53, Eb wrote: > > > Eb, who, if ordered to exterminate one film director on Earth, would > > probably opt for Oliver Stone (well, maybe Adrian Lyne...) > > Personally, I'd say James Cameron or Paul Verhoeven. Of course, Gus Van > Sandt should be exterminated on principle alone after that Psycho remake. I'd pick Micheal Bay! shudderr.... Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:28:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Saving Ryan's Privates On Tue, 18 Jul 2000, The Great Quail wrote: > 1. After the Allies successfully win the beach, the Germans > surrender, and the Allies mow them down anyway. Despite the pounding > you just viscerally experienced with the troops, you sort of feel > shocked at that -- but you also understand it. I think that does a > lot to throw into focus that Jerry is human, and that war > de-humanizes. Quibble: the Americans only kill three enemies who are trying to surrender, not all of them. (Also, note that they were only *trying* to surrender. You haven't actually surrendered until you convince the enemy to *accept* your surrender.) This is accurate, and happened in lots of other armies and wars too. But here's the most shocking part: when the two soldiers who aren't in the trench try to surrender and get shot, one of them is shouting "Jsem cech! Jsem cech!" Yes, he was not a German but a Czech! Possibly even an ancestor of one of the members of Uz Jsme Doma! Now his death *really* shows the horror of war. (In real life, a large minority of the German troops at Normandy were actually soldiers recruited, with varying degrees of willingness, from various Eastern European countries. Sometimes it got even weirder: the Allies captured a group of *Koreans* who had been drafted into the Japanese army, sent to Manchuria, captured by the Soviets in a border clash, drafted from a prison camp into the Soviet army after the Germans invaded, then captured by the Germans, drafted into *their* army, and sent to Normandy. Bizarred anecdotes like this are perhaps the main reason I study history.) > Just an opinion, I can't say I feel terribly strongly one way or > another.... Though despite the hokey score, some hokey dialogue, and > the fairly pedestrian plot, I really liked "Ryan." Me too. What a shame it inspired Tom Hanks to join the campaign for locating the national World War II memorial in a shockingly bad spot, smack dab in the middle of the Mall. DC Fegs, enjoy that sweeping view from the Lincoln Memorial to the Washington Monument while you can.... - --Chris "insert caption from propaganda poster here" the Christer ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #197 *******************************