From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #190 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, July 12 2000 Volume 09 : Number 190 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Hunting (Tree hugging hippie crap content 100%) ["Randy R." ] Re: vegetable murdering scum.... ["Randy R." ] Re: Hunting [Bayard ] Re: Hunting (Tree hugging hippie crap content 100%) [Vivien Lyon ] Re: Hunting [Bayard ] Re: Hunting [Christopher Gross ] Re: Hunting and Feggering [Bayard ] Evil replica clown ghetto mask [GSS ] Me and me and me and Boston and NYC [Capuchin ] Re: Me and me and me and Boston and NYC [Bayard ] Your rotting corpse & my Bug prejudice [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Re: Me and me and me and Boston and NYC [Capuchin ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #188 [digja611@student.otago.ac.nz] eb all over the world ["The Kielbasa Kid" ] EAOtW [Bayard ] Re: Hunting ["J. Brown" ] Re: Hunting and Feggering ["J. Brown" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:34:34 -0700 From: "Randy R." Subject: Re: Hunting (Tree hugging hippie crap content 100%) From: Eleanore Adams > Ok, I am neutral....But....Questions......This meat plant, who bought this > meat, like, what brand was this? I know it makes no difference, just curious. Geez, I really don't know. The plant was called "Caldwells" and they specialized in Kosher kill meats. They hired 3 Jewish Rabbis to do the dirty deed. Man, it was weird. They'd have to "bless" their knives (more like swords, these things were big) before slitting the animals throat, and then would run the *sword* down their thumbnail to make sure it was a *clean* kill. If their sword somehow appeared to have a knick on it, it wasn't *kosher*, I guess. So they'd staple a red tag to the animals tongue, which was by this point, hanging down out of it's face. Sheesh. I'm starting to get nightmares again. When the Rabbis left at noon on Friday, we were able to do a much more *humane* kill. We had a *knocker*, a hand held device with a .22 bullet in it that we'd place on the animals head and "blam", it would bounce a steel peg into it's brain. 1 second, a living cow. 1 second later, dead cow. Of course, I still had to *bleed* it but by this manner, it didn't hang upside down bleeding to death at least. And here's a touchy feely story for Glen ; ) In 1975 at the plant, a cow escaped. Yep, the poor sucker who worked in the blood pit before me failed to chain it properly, and somehow the *knocker* missed it's brain. It bucked and ran, jumped through the startled workers at the "shredding" table, and made it out the back door. It's unclear whether or not they caught it that day, but legend has it, it was never seen again > > I do concur with the fact that our gov't took much of he reservation land away > from the tribes in the 1930's - 1970's because the land was perfect for water > resorvoirs. They would negotiate with a tribe (I remember specifically a case > in Minnesota) tell them they would give them new land, relocate them to a > barren wasteland with unfertile grounds, and then flood the old reservation > lands. The tribe would loose the land and not get a proper percentage of the > energy generated from the new dam, ending up a lot worse than before. (And that > wasn't that great to begin with) > > There is this great book called Cadillac Desert, concerning land reclamation > for the use of water distribution. > > There was also a story on NPR this past Sunday about the tribes who live in > Alaska, where the ground is too frozen to grow crops, and how the tribes today > live 80% off of the land, and only purchase overpriced imported veggies for 20% > or less of their diet. The imports from the lower 48 are overpriced and of very > low quality, but the old ways are free (except for the lonf days of work) and > plentiful (But this is changing with the help of modernization) Thanks for writing that. Now I know why my damn vegetable garden won't grow, and the wild dogs keep tearing up my seeds. : ) Apologies to those I may have offended, Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:24:22 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Re: Hunting I, too, shouldn't get involved in this argument, and I definitely shouldn't engage in polemics like this, but I feel somewhat strongly about it and like most people I rarely do anything that's in my own long-term best interests. >"Hunters always say that the reason they hunt is that there are >too many animals and they are trying to 'thin the herd'. Using that >logic, can't we conceivably get rid of the elitist assholes that seem >to be overrunning the planet? Just thinning the herd, you know!" > - Glen Uber I think this is a *great* idea, Glen! And if you can accomplish it through some cruelty-free means (i.e., voluntary attrition), so much the better. Mark Gloster and I have done our bit! Anybody else? Unfortunately, these efforts against hunting of non-endangered former-prey species like deer, rabbits, and raccoons don't always help. There are sound ecological reasons for "thinning the herd," in many cases, as unpleasant as it may be. Try living in the rural farm-belt for a while to see the results of deer, rabbit and raccoon overpopulation (caused by us humans, of course) first-hand. And not just on us, but on them. gss (not GREGORY STUART SHELL) writes: >Lions and other predatory animals seriously injure and kill other >members of their pride regulary. I have about 16 cats living around >my house and I have seen both males and females attack and kill >each other and food had nothing to do with it. Right! Territory and dominance have everything to do with it. Another example is how seemingly-placid herd animals such as horses and bison will viciously attack each other simply to establish who the "alpha male" or "boss mare" is. But the thing that strikes me as so ridiculous is this idea that we, as humans, are somehow "above" that sort of behavior because of our supposed "intelligence," even though it's obviously going on all around us on a daily basis. We humans also manage to delude ourselves by failing to accept the blindingly obvious fact that we've systematically made vast areas of what was once animal territory unlivable for them through our own overpopulation and its resulting development. (Predatory animals? What predatory animals? I don't see any predatory animals around here... What, you say we killed them all, and that's why I don't see them? Yeah, right. You and your crazy theories.) The idea that our so-called efforts to provide "sanctuaries" and "preserves" for animal populations somehow excuses us from moral culpability in this regard is laughable, and yet people collectively pat themselves on the back for this with completely straight faces on a regular basis. (Admittedly, it *is* better than just having them all die.) As James Dignan suggested with respect to New Zealand, the consequences of human expansion and development put us in the morally dubious position of having to replace the many predator species we have destroyed (such as wildcats, bears, and wolves in North America) with our own selves, merely to prevent the species they used to prey upon (deer, raccoons, rabbits) from multiplying beyond the capacity of the land (and it's human-shattered ecology) to support them, thereby further preventing them from destroying *other* species lower down in the food chain (and thus further impacting bio-diversity) in order to sustain their inflated populations. The point I'm trying to make here is that to criticize hunters for what they do is no different from criticizing mountain lions, ocelots, and hyenas for what they *used* to do before we destroyed their populations. (Admittedly, genocide can be considered a form of criticism, I guess.) Human beings are by far the most violent and destructive force ever seen on the planet. *Maybe* they/we should feel shame at individual acts of cruelty such as shooting a deer or whatever, but the effort to make them feel that shame (or prevent them from committing such acts) would probably be much better spent on trying to prevent the massive destruction of animal (and plant, insect, fish, etc.) habitats on a global scale, which became frighteningly more widespread during the 20th century and shows few, if any, signs of abatement now. If anything, to have a situation where "tree-huggers" and "beer-swilling, gun-toting rednecks" are busily attacking each other for the (mostly) limited killing of wild animals is exactly the sort of situation that's most desirable for the very corporations and governments that are gleefully wiping the Earth clean of its natural resources in the interest of selfish, short-term private gain. The very people who might otherwise lead a popular groundswell against their activities are conveniently distracted while the perps go about their work with relatively little interference, just as people like *Al Gore* are foisted off on us as "champions" of the "environmental movement." They're probably laughing their asses off at us right now, as we sit at our nice expensive computers humbly apologizing for wearing leather shoes, and trying to rationalize that as somehow not being "too hypocritical." Hmm, that's probably enough for today, wouldn't you say? Flame away. JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:02:02 -0700 From: "Randy R." Subject: Re: vegetable murdering scum.... From: > > To further pile up on Glen, I should offer that he is a fan of the > Oakland Raiders "football team." gawd-DAMMIT!!! THAT's the guy. hmmm. The Raiders suck, dood. I'll be heading out to Cheney in a few weeks for the Seahawks training camp. Yes, I will be camping nearby in the foothills of the Rockies and yes, I will go fishing. No, I won't be bringing my rifle. I specialize in grilling veggie burgers, fried potatoes, and onions. And, I'll be checking out the progress of Jon Kitna. Damn, damn, damn. No wide receivers, no way to stop the run, and Jon Kitna. My season may be longer than the Raiders this year. BTW, football is made from animal skin : ) Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:05:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Hunting I would just like to say that I agree with JH3. I think Joel, in the long ago "fegbooks" thread, mentioned _Ishmael_, by Daniel Quinn. This, and the more complex _The Story of B_, are amazing books, that (if you let them) will open your eyes and quite possibly (hopefully) change your life! There is a much larger problem at hand than what people are eating - the world is being systematically destroyed, no shit. Hunting/Gathering as a way of life worked for thousands of years - ironically it was the agricultural revolution that started the trouble we're in now. Check out this family of web sites: http://ishmael.org/ On a more personal note, Chris and I have a new address. So if you're sending us anything, write an email first. And I have received word that a Soft Boys reunion (including the USA) is in the works, as was previously reported here on the list. Let's hope it works out - I hated missing out in '94 and '80! =b ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:06:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: Re: Hunting (Tree hugging hippie crap content 100%) - --- sbuckalew wrote: > That our bodies are engaged in a 24/7 campaign of warfare and > killing within our own shells just to survive is an > interesting fact. And how low on the chain of "life" do we go > to have compassion for other living things? Well, I just finished reading a science fiction story in which human aggression had been (supposedly) completely suppressed by some sort of radio transmission that made it (somehow) impossible for people to kill other people. It also had the effect of making most people vegetarians, and some unlucky folk incapable of killing insects. It was pointed out to the hero, in a moment of extreme duress, that if he were consistent with his impulses, he would not be able to move lest he should kill any of the myriad parasites and tiny bugs that reside upon and within him. This realization enabled him to throw off the shackles of his mind and beat the holy crap out of his enemy (who was about to rain down nuclear holocaust from a bunker in bombed-out Chicago). I myself don't subscribe to this slippery-slope argument, ie: that killing even the lowliest makes it easier to kill one's fellows. I don't want to end up on top of a pole, festering in lice and flies. Which saint was that, anyway? On the other hand, I do think we should avoid killing animals needlessly and brutally. It would be easier to act on this principle if bacon weren't so damn tasty. Vivien 'His only crime was being born delicious.' __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:21:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: Hunting On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Bayard wrote: > I would just like to say that I agree with JH3. I think Joel, in the long > ago "fegbooks" thread, mentioned _Ishmael_, by Daniel Quinn. This, and > the more complex _The Story of B_, are amazing books, that (if you let > them) will open your eyes and quite possibly (hopefully) change your life! > There is a much larger problem at hand than what people are eating - the > world is being systematically destroyed, no shit. Hunting/Gathering as a > way of life worked for thousands of years - ironically it was the > agricultural revolution that started the trouble we're in now. Gah! I thought io'd escaped Quinnism when my room mate moved to north dakota! Some interesting points in there though, but if i never hear the phrase "totalitarian agriculture" i'll die a happy man. My ex-roomie would never accept that this "abomination" was a natural outcome for a species with large brains living in a temperate climate. He serious wanted to go back in time to stop it but could never answer my query "to what end?" Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:34:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Hunting > dakota! Some interesting points in there though, but if i never hear the > phrase "totalitarian agriculture" i'll die a happy man. Well, call it what you like, i suppose.... My ex-roomie > would never accept that this "abomination" was a natural outcome for a > species with large brains living in a temperate climate. How do you figure? He serious wanted > to go back in time to stop it but could never answer my query "to what > end?" You don't reckon humanity is worth trying to save, then? (Sure, the *planet* will perhaps recover... several hundred thousand years after the last human is dead! perhaps the roaches will fare better...) Even if anyone could go back and try to warn people or give a positive message, though, i'm sure the message would be distorted and that person imprisoned or killed... perhaps your roomie would become the Eco-Christ... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:55:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Hunting On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Bayard wrote: > Hunting/Gathering as a > way of life worked for thousands of years - ironically it was the > agricultural revolution that started the trouble we're in now. Quibble: "we" wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for the agricultural revolution. Hunting and gathering can only a fairly small population. I guess if agriculture had never been invented, the one or two million people who would be here in our places wouldn't be in the trouble we're in now. - --Quibbling Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:00:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Hunting and Feggering > > Hunting/Gathering as a > > way of life worked for thousands of years - ironically it was the > > agricultural revolution that started the trouble we're in now. > > Quibble: "we" wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for the agricultural > revolution. Hunting and gathering can only a fairly small population. I > guess if agriculture had never been invented, the one or two million > people who would be here in our places wouldn't be in the trouble we're in > now. I realized after I hit ctrl-X that someone would say this. This is kind of obvious, but you're right of course. And no, I am not proposing we all go back to hunting and gathering. Read the books! Heck, yer in a library right now, many of you.... Quinn says it all much better than I could... though I'm willing to type more on it if there is any interest. Mr Brown seems to think i am a fanatic... =b "easy, folks, i'm one of the good guys" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:08:40 -0500 (CDT) From: GSS Subject: Evil replica clown ghetto mask On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, another carnivore with large brain and opposing digits wrote: > gss (was ??????? ?????? ?????) writes: > >Lions and other predatory animals seriously injure and kill other > >members of their pride regulary. I have about 16 cats living around > >my house and I have seen both males and females attack and kill > >each other and food had nothing to do with it. > Right! Territory and dominance have everything to do with it. Another > example is how seemingly-placid herd animals such as horses and > bison will viciously attack each other simply to establish who the Shit, I excluded the non-predatorial ones, again. And of course we cannot forget, though not animal: sperm. g 'an animal without much fur but who's semen is .25 strictly territorial' s 'then i'm dust' s ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:04:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Me and me and me and Boston and NYC My current plan is to fly into Boston on Saturday, August 26. I have nowhere to go that night. Please don't make me stay in an expensive hotel. :) I will be at the some Sheraton somehwere in the city on Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Wednesday, I'm going to NYC and I'm going to crash with LJ and the Quail until Sunday morning. Then I'm headed back to Boston and flying home. Let me know if that's a problem. Jeme. - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:09:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Me and me and me and Boston and NYC are there even any boston fegs around these days? where's that pesky "globe of fegs" mapsite got to? =n ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:13:41 EDT From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: Your rotting corpse & my Bug prejudice In a message dated 7/12/00 12:24:36 PM US Mountain Standard Time, owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org writes: << The other option for me is to find some way to become compost, or "worm food" >> Drew, I'd give you a plot in my backyard, but I'm afraid your rotting corpse would attract waaaaaayyyyy too many bugs. Can't you arrange a decent death at a zoo or something? If you must be passed on, at least let it be by mammal Speaking of bug intolerance, I had my little "respect for life" phase a few years back. I even refused to kill the occasional small moth I found in my apartment. I found one while in the shower, and I protected it and later released it outside. One day, I found a bunch of worms slithering up the wall, coming out from where I kept my food. Those friggin moths had multiplied in my corn flakes, and there went my "respect for life" phase. Soon thereafter, there were no more moths in my apartment Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:17:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Me and me and me and Boston and NYC On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Bayard wrote: > are there even any boston fegs around these days? Ken the kenster has already offered me a chance to hang out and even a tiki party of some sort. Aaron Mandel doesn't still live in Boston? > where's that pesky "globe of fegs" mapsite got to? Glen "guber" Uber and Aaron "The Viper" Lowe were supposed to update the thing and make it neat and cool and stuff... but the ball has been dropped. I have all the original pages and graphics... but nobody is taking over development. Je. - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:50:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: Hunting - --- Bayard wrote: > You don't reckon humanity is worth trying to save, then? (Sure, the This is going to sound sophomoric, but I can't really think of a reason that would matter to anyone apart from humanity itself. Drew ===== Andrew D. Simchik, schnopia@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 11:06:51 +1200 From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #188 >I wouldn't mind being regularly shorn to make clothing. Is the objection >there that wool implies sheep that will eventually be slaughtered? Or is >there animal cruelty in sheep-shearing? quite the opposite. With modern breeds of sheep, if they're left unshorn they suffer >Correct. I'm not. But in the larger sense of the word, I am. There are >those who believe that a vegetable touched by animal feces are strictly off >limits. heh. Every vegetable you eat has somehow been touched by that, >errrr, shit. riiight... so we should be using chemically produced fertiliser instead? Hmm. PS - I'm with those who think thast Vince has got a pretty rough ride during his first few days here. Welcome to the list, Vince - we're not usually like this... we're normally a pretty happy bunch. Hopefully you'll discover this pretty damn soon (hint hint folks?) James (now finally able to regard himself as a real kiwi, having answered a sheep question. I also finally feel like I'm a 'real bloke', being the proud new owner of a chainsaw). "I've finally discovered what's wrong with me. I'm not human. They had one of those human interest stories on the news last night, and I wasn't interested in it at all..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:22:26 PDT From: "The Kielbasa Kid" Subject: eb all over the world > in case any of y' didn't immediately check out , there's a pix of robyn with acoustic, and a "coming soon" notice. ryan, recall, is the guy who video and audiotaped all the rock armada shows last fall. thought andy was supposed to be going to tour with him? this is the essence of the MOSS ELIXIR story, no? it also reminds me of my all-time favourite episode of Tales From The Darkside: a door-to-door salesman was offering a sure-fire weight-loss pill. the overweight lady bought it, and downed it, and it caused all the would-be food (including fruits and vegetables) to become anthrompomorphised. i think the rumproast was voiced by sly stallone. anyhow, she was of course unable to eat them, and eventually sewed her mouth shut, and that was all she wrote. (or maybe it was eyeglasses which, once in place, could not be removed. can't remember for sure.) made myself a pizza with tofu cheese and vegan pepperoni (and pineapple) the other week. not bad. why couldn't you make it so that people would enter their own info? wouldn't that make the development process a lot easier? weren't quail and terrence at one point working on something like this? KEN "Your weight is over" THE KENSTER ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 19:37:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: EAOtW > thing and make it neat and cool and stuff... but the ball has been dropped. > > I have all the original pages and graphics... but nobody is taking over > development.> > > why couldn't you make it so that people would enter their own info? > wouldn't that make the development process a lot easier? weren't quail and > terrence at one point working on something like this? i think that might have been quail and me, actually, if you mean the Fegmonomicon. A database of fegs that displayed dynamically-populated feg home pages. Actually, the Fegmonomicon should probably merge with the fegmaps and the feg tree (tape trading tree). Good idea. Jeme? If not, we could drop it into Robynbase, as originally planned. There's already a feg table in there. Only thing is, I don't know how we'd do the maps. It would have to be a text search I think... Search by city or ZIP or country. Street address off limints, of course. =b ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: Hunting On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Bayard wrote: > > dakota! Some interesting points in there though, but if i never hear the > > phrase "totalitarian agriculture" i'll die a happy man. > > Well, call it what you like, i suppose.... Isn't that what quinn calls it? I've only read a couple of the books. > My ex-roomie > > would never accept that this "abomination" was a natural outcome for a > > species with large brains living in a temperate climate. > > How do you figure? Humans have big brians and higher brain function and its inevitable that an intelligent species will develop ways to be more efficient. A temperate climate is is essential because there is no need for agriculture in a tropical climate because food is much more plentiful. > He serious wanted > > to go back in time to stop it but could never answer my query "to what > > end?" > > You don't reckon humanity is worth trying to save, then? (Sure, the > *planet* will perhaps recover... several hundred thousand years after the > last human is dead! perhaps the roaches will fare better...) Not particularly in a grand sense of things. If not Humans then some other intelligent species would have come along be it roaches or fungus or what ever and will make similars mistakes. All that's left is for us enjoy what we have now and hope something major happens like nanotech comes about. Plus "saving" humanity in such a way would not really be saving the twentieth century humanity that i know and love anyway > Even if anyone could go back and try to warn people or give a positive > message, though, i'm sure the message would be distorted and that person > imprisoned or killed... perhaps your roomie would become the Eco-Christ... he would certianly dig that! He has a martyr complex already! But i do think that Quinn's analysis is generally on the money and very interesting but enjoy the benefits of totaletarian agriculture (things like music, art, variety in food, technology) far too much to get too upset about it. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 17:12:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: Hunting and Feggering On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Bayard wrote: > > > > Hunting/Gathering as a > > > way of life worked for thousands of years - ironically it was the > > > agricultural revolution that started the trouble we're in now. > > > > Quibble: "we" wouldn't be here at all if it wasn't for the agricultural > > revolution. Hunting and gathering can only a fairly small population. I > > guess if agriculture had never been invented, the one or two million > > people who would be here in our places wouldn't be in the trouble we're in > > now. > > I realized after I hit ctrl-X that someone would say this. This is kind > of obvious, but you're right of course. And no, I am not proposing we all > go back to hunting and gathering. Read the books! Heck, yer in a library > right now, many of you.... > > Quinn says it all much better than I could... though I'm willing to type > more on it if there is any interest. Mr Brown seems to think i am a > fanatic... not at all! i apologize if i gave that impression. Just a gag reflex after many late nights spent hashing over this stuff. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #190 *******************************