From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #181 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, July 6 2000 Volume 09 : Number 181 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Anglo-Canadians' frustration [Dominic ] Johnny Canuck vs. Uncle Sam?! [tim fuller and randi spiegel ] Re: OT: word games [Fwd: A Small Call for Help] (fwd) ["Stewart C. Russel] draft morning [tim fuller and randi spiegel ] Linguistic question [Sebastian Hagedorn ] gerbil babies, completely "off topic" [lj lindhurst ] "you must relate to the earthling mortal!" [Natalie Jacobs ] a new home ["The Kielbasa Kid" ] Re: Linguistic question ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: Linguistic question [Eleanore Adams ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 00:08:44 -0400 From: Dominic Subject: Anglo-Canadians' frustration > I was paying the price for being from Toronto and not Plattsburgh. See, we in > Toronto are the remnant of the evil anglo forces that tried to keep Montreal an > english-speaking city. If I was a tourist from Upstate New > York I figure I'd be treated very well. Ha ! You consider that this guy wasn't "treating" you well 'cos he couldn't properly understand what you were saying ? Being a french-speaking Canadian myself, I couldn't resist but to reply to your comments. If I was in Toronto, would it be alright for me to feel persecuted if nobody understands my French ? Of course, no...Come on, English is an official language in Canada, so I should be able to speak it...But it seems that this doesn't apply to anglophones as far as French is considered.... Dominic Montreal ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 01:32:08 -0400 From: tim fuller and randi spiegel Subject: Johnny Canuck vs. Uncle Sam?! Tim wrote: > > I am still very hesitant to embrace this new sport that is called > > basketball. Then Ross wrote: > Basketball was invented in the USA by a Canadian. > It's properly played with peach baskets, of course. > > http://www.tvdsb.on.ca/tecumseh/student/5/Naisek.htm Yes - and the first professional basketball game was at Maple Leaf Gardens (now the proud home of the St. Mike's Majors!) in 1946...Toronto had a team called The Huskies and they lasted all of one year. As I try to get this 'Canadian thing' out of my system, I've found something more on the origin of the word 'canuck': http://www.comnet.ca/~dmarchak/boonews2.htm The term 'Crazy Canucks' was used by the European press in the mid-'70s to describe our World Cup ski team...seems it had a reputation for going really fast and, if they didn't crash, winning. n.p. King Crimson - Starless and Bible Black; Ultravox - Ha! Ha! Ha! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 00:10:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: Anglo-Canadians' frustration On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Dominic wrote: > > I was paying the price for being from Toronto and not Plattsburgh. See, we in > > Toronto are the remnant of the evil anglo forces that tried to keep Montreal an > > english-speaking city. If I was a tourist from Upstate New > > York I figure I'd be treated very well. > > Ha ! > > You consider that this guy wasn't "treating" you well 'cos he couldn't > properly understand what you were saying ? Being a french-speaking > Canadian myself, I couldn't resist but to reply to your comments. If I > was in Toronto, would it be alright for me to feel persecuted if nobody > understands my French ? Of course, no...Come on, English is an official > language in Canada, so I should be able to speak it...But it seems that > this doesn't apply to anglophones as far as French is considered.... I think the complaint is that the clerk pretended not to understand the guys english and when his fellow quebecois said something in english he responded. If the guy didnt understand english at all there would be no reasonable complaint especially considering we are talking about Quebec city. and some place like montreal or Hull. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 08:56:35 +0100 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: OT: word games [Fwd: A Small Call for Help] (fwd) The Kielbasa Kid wrote: > > Cri me an. a proper name? The best I can do so far is aversion := a : vers : ion avers version 'vers' is the abbreviation of an obscure trigonometric function, so it's kind of cheating. But it is a dictionary headword. I shall set one of our workstations grinding away at this. I reckon we'll have a full answer in about three weeks or so. My algorithm's not very efficient. - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 04:34:33 -0400 From: tim fuller and randi spiegel Subject: draft morning I am pretty sure it was off 'Time Between' - one of the umpteen tribute albums (every one of the them included The Mock Turtles it seemed) put out by Imaginary in 1989...but this one was by The Chills. It may be the most transcendent thing they've ever done and that's saying a lot. Anyone got it? I need it! (Ahhh...I've seen a track listing and it all comes back to me now - you *all* have it cuz of Nigel and the Crosses, yes?) I don't have much to offer but I do have a home-made CD of Julian Cope B-sides... r.s.v.p., Tim (who has been told by Randi that I must stand alone and be counted as a Feg unto myself and stop hiding behind her lifetime membership; OK - - I will fess up: I bought IODOT in 1984 and saw Robyn at the sadly deceased Larry's Hideaway in 1986 so I guess that makes me a fan.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 14:54:24 +0200 From: Sebastian Hagedorn Subject: Linguistic question Hi! I'm currently writing my master's thesis in Linguistics and I've come across an English example that I would like to ask you about (native speakers only). These are examples for so-called self-embedded relative clauses. a) The farmer that the cow that gave bad milk kicked died. b) The farmer whom the cow that gave bad milk kicked died. Do you feel that one is better than the other? Do you think that the bad sentence(s) violate the grammar or that they are simply "bad" sentences because they are too hard to parse/understand? I'll give you my reasons for asking later. Thanks for helping me out. Cheers, Sebastian - -- Sebastian Hagedorn Ehrenfeldgürtel 156, 50823 Köln, Germany http://www.spinfo.uni-koeln.de/~hgd/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 11:15:17 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: gerbil babies, completely "off topic" If you guys are already sick of this, please send me some nasty email and I will stop posting these little updates. I promise! I know it's off topic, but then again, EVERYTHING is pretty much off topic around here, and this is the kind of nonsense that I love seeing, but I do understand that not EVERYONE appreciates this sort of thing... so....feel free to tell me to SHUT UP, and I will. But if anyone cares, I have been attempting to keep an ongoing record of the gerbil babies' development. If you go to: http://www.w-rabbit.com/dumbstuff.html ...you will see there are two more pictures. lj - -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * LJ Lindhurst White Rabbit Graphic Design http://www.w-rabbit.com NYC ljl@w-rabbit.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 08:32:34 -0700 From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: "you must relate to the earthling mortal!" > Great fun, lots of weird > surprises, but was disappointed by Lothars (great concept, dull execution)... Ah. I guess the fact that they once opened for the Music Tapes should have clued me in. Speaking of which.... > can't remember where i read (maybe it was a dream, even) that cynthia > plaster caster is going to be having a show somewhere (new york, i think); > and that momus' cock *will* be included. A girl on the E6 list told me that Cynthia Plaster Caster has expressed the desire to "cast Julian Koster's 'rig.'" This sent me into gales of hysterical laughter, as Koster (a skinny, big-eyed kid with a bowl cut) is hardly the rock star/sex god type that Ms. C. usually favors... :P n., who once pissed off her parents by buying a Quebecois flag and waving it out the car window screaming "Free Quebec!" during a trip through Ontario ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 17:17:42 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: "you must relate to the earthling mortal!" On Wed, 5 Jul 2000, Natalie Jacobs wrote: > n., who once pissed off her parents by buying a Quebecois flag and waving it > out the car window screaming "Free Quebec!" during a trip through Ontario I think you mean "Vive le Quebec libre!" - - Charles de Gaulle, general (deceased.) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 14:11:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: makin' mountains out of molehills On Thu, 29 Jun 2000, Natalie Jacobs wrote: > even the notoriously rude Stephin Merritt smiled and thanked me he's notoriously surly, but when he's rude to fans it's always pretty clear that he's mostly playing a role. you could say that it's still rude to establish a persona like that rather than having a conversation with you; however, i don't know anyone who's met him and felt seriously brushed off... i found that at worst, he seemed like a shy guy who had found a clever way to deal with fans. maybe we were just lucky. the guy who does their t-shirts reported that Stephin had suggested selling buttons which read "I'm afraid of Stephin Merritt." aaron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 13:20:14 -0700 From: "Simone Jarzabek" Subject: The Randi Report :) Randi arrived in Seattle last night and we picked her up at the train station. She saw her first close-up fireworks last night. Randi and I sat in lawn chairs with a lap blanket, while Todd (my husband) played pyrotechnician for the evening and set off the colorful little things, and we clapped after each one. We all had a nice star gaze afterwards... the night was fairly clear and we live a little ways from the city. Randi's napping and I'm working. Feel free to drop me a line, either e-mail sljarzabek@yahoo.com or telephone 206-818-3301. Cheers Simone ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 19:43:49 PDT From: "The Kielbasa Kid" Subject: a new home good afternoon, if you link to my site (don't laugh -- a few people do!), or if you bookmark my site (don't laugh -- at least one person must!), be it noted that you no longer have to look at those nasty, dirty advertisements. the site is now located at . it's pretty much the same old same old. there is, however, some new robyn hitchcock content: new "concert" photos, a small image gallery, and the hamilton discography. and some new berstein content: some VERY cool "concert" photos (none taken by me, which is probably *why* they're cool). additionally, i've revamped the pictures section, and added some pinko drivel that i've written over the years. all the links -- both internal and external -- have been rigorously tested, and seem to be up to snuff. apologies all 'round for the gratuitousness of this communique -- though not *too* thickly, or i'd not have sent it at all! now i'm off to see The Perfect Storm, and pray god it doesn't suck *too* badly (me being such a monumental lover of storms, though, i just cannot resist). ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 20:22:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: Linguistic question - --- Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > a) The farmer that the cow that gave bad milk kicked died. > b) The farmer whom the cow that gave bad milk kicked died. > > Do you feel that one is better than the other? Do you think that the bad > > sentence(s) violate the grammar or that they are simply "bad" sentences > because they are too hard to parse/understand? I'm always hazy on that/which but I think (a) is iffy because of the "that". "The farmer the cow that gave bad milk kicked died" is almost better than (a). (b) is just fine, though of course both are certainly "bad" in the sense that they're hard to parse in written English (in spoken English they're salvag(e?)able). As "garden path"* examples they don't work at all, but I gather they weren't supposed to. Drew * The classic "garden path" example is "The horse raced past the barn fell." I'm trying to decide whether that has anything to do with relative clauses but my brain won't function. I once lived in a co(-?)op with a pack of linguists called the "Barnfel" (more ambiguity! whee!). ===== Andrew D. Simchik, schnopia@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 21:58:30 -0700 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: Linguistic question I agree with Andrew. (b) is the better choice. I am no pro at grammer, but B is better. Where are the commas? eleanore "Andrew D. Simchik" wrote: > --- Sebastian Hagedorn wrote: > > > a) The farmer that the cow that gave bad milk kicked died. > > b) The farmer whom the cow that gave bad milk kicked died. > > > > Do you feel that one is better than the other? Do you think that the bad > > > > sentence(s) violate the grammar or that they are simply "bad" sentences > > because they are too hard to parse/understand? > > I'm always hazy on that/which but I think (a) is iffy because of the > "that". "The farmer the cow that gave bad milk kicked died" is almost > better than (a). (b) is just fine, though of course both are certainly > "bad" in the sense that they're hard to parse in written English (in > spoken English they're salvag(e?)able). As "garden path"* examples > they don't work at all, but I gather they weren't supposed to. > > Drew > > * The classic "garden path" example is "The horse raced past the barn > fell." I'm trying to decide whether that has anything to do with > relative clauses but my brain won't function. I once lived in a co(-?)op > with a pack of linguists called the "Barnfel" (more ambiguity! whee!). > > ===== > Andrew D. Simchik, schnopia@yahoo.com > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #181 *******************************