From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #143 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, June 7 2000 Volume 09 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: r'n'r h.o.f. all over the world [Eb ] Re: new world men ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] she.rex, where are you? [Joel Mullins ] theeze damn kidz nowadaze... [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] The times they are a changin' ["Gary Sedgwick" ] Re: Sweetwater show info [overbury@cn.ca] Re: r'n'r h.o.f. all over the world [Aaron Mandel ] Re: new world men [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Re: new world men ["J. Brown" ] Re: all over the world [Eb ] Re: mnf around the world [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: new world men [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: Roy'n'Robyn ["Stewart C. Russell" ] Re: Are we not men? We are frat rockers! [David Librik ] Re: all over the world [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Are we not men? We are frat rockers! [lj lindhurst ] Re: grease pop ["Russ Reynolds" ] Re: Rush Limbo ["Russ Reynolds" ] 195 minutes? My God, that's over three hours! [The Great Quail ] Re: all over the world ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: Are we not men? We are frat rockers! ["Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: r'n'r h.o.f. all over the world >Eb, you are once again, trying to get my goat. In the past, you had >admitted to me that the only release you heard of them was 2112. No, I said 2112 was the only one I ever *owned* (years ago). I may have heard only a few full Rush albums (plus bits and pieces of others), but I've heard enough to firmly know Rush is not a group whom I wish to collect. I had a period of immersion in Rush during junior high/early high school because I had a friend who liked them a lot, but that's ancient history. I don't have any fierce hatred toward Rush, but they don't engage me. I also don't think their career has enough widespread impact and acclaim for them to be an absolute given for the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. I suspect they'll get in someday, but I hardly think it's a crime they didn't get their enshrinement coupon on the first try. Are you that guy who has that rote litany of Rush-member virtues, which he posts whenever the subject comes up? "Geddy: Knows when to play and when not to play. Alex: Some say he's the weakest member of the group, but...." That gunk? >I think that Limbaugh will do quite well as MNF announcer, at least much >better than Boomer, who's favorite phrase was "you know", counted 54 times >during one broadcast. I keep hearing how horrible Boomer was, but I haven't watched much MNF in recent years so don't know what the fuss was about. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:58:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: new world men - --- Eb wrote: > I don't think Matchbox 20 and TEB fall into this category...I'm talking > more about the Smash Mouth aesthetic. Which reminds me of another visual > component which seems to be valued in this microgenre: fat guys. > Curious. Smash Mouth, Sublime and then of course Long Beach Dub All-Stars... who else did you have in mind, who isn't ska? > Eb, thinking this genre is just begging for a catchy, mass-marketed > label "F(r)atrock" might be too postmodern... Drew ===== Andrew D. Simchik, schnopia@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:40:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Joel Mullins Subject: she.rex, where are you? Can she.rex please email me privately? I've lost your address. Thanks Joel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:58:10 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: theeze damn kidz nowadaze... Long time listener. First time caller. Thanks for the vine. Okay, so us oldfartz can say theeze damn kidz nowadaze are making nothing but old oyster juice, but I think that even some of the popular acts have put out quality material, despite their following or success. Slice and dice me and make kippered snacks out of my liver and kidneys*, but I really like Green Day, and the Red Hot Chilli Poopers. Hell, I even kinda like Dave Matthews. To throw more gas on the fire, though, I saw a Warren Miller flick that had tunes from Kravitz and Sonicsemis (or whatever their name is) and it really worked visually and musically. Later, I actually listened to the words and was horrified at how incredibly lame they were. The songs in question were huge hits. I know we're supposed to look at dead rock stars through velvety pink shades with gold tassels and feathery hmuhs while fondling warm fuzzy things in our pockets and making beautiful web sites and I know this is going to frost a few of your mugs out there, BUT I think that Kurt Cobain was not a very good lyricist. What Nirvana did better than any band since the Doors is to communicate the profound feeling of disaffection of a part of a generation. They were a conduit for emotion and insecurity rather than have a terribly articulate, poetic, or useful message. If you read most of the lyrics without musical accompanyment you are left with "ninth grade suicidal loser kid rambling 'poetry.'" Again, I think they were good at what they did, but they could have maybe spent ten minutes more on their lyrics and made them better. I guess that for me, much of popular music has such titanically yogurt** lyrics that I cannot comprehend its success. PT Barnum's marketing theories are the cornerstone for pop culture. I wish some of the really good musicians would put their emotions into their playing and shut their mouths. How's that for oldfartism? Here's some more: Monday Nite Foobars: I will not listen to the sound on MNF if Rush Limbaugh is on it. I may not even watch it. The comparison between Howard and Rush at the point of irritation. Howard Cosell was a journalist. Howard Cosell knew what the people were doing down there and tell in an instant if there was an extra man on the field or if someone was blowing coverage and who the players were. Rush is a complete one-note knee-jerk who couldn't hack it in commenting on what he was seeing. Rush Limbaugh makes Jimmy Kimmel and Terry Bradshaw appear to have journalistic credibility. FYI: I am fairly sure that this was merely a publicity stunt benefitting both Limbaugh and ABC, and it is (hopefully) impossible that either party was serious. Jim Rome has his own idiot ditto heads (and a few people who are really sharp but don't call his show), despite having some idea about sports and journalism should be considered. I also think Steve Young would do a good job as the boothjock, but I wouldn't mind having somebody like Charles Barkley if they'd let him talk. Al Michaels is good. Boomer was bad. Dierdorf was awful and couldn't stand being in a small room with a quarterback whose legs he wasn't allowed to snap off. That's enough from me, - -Markg * Jeme, did the reference desk provide recipes? ** Yogurt is an adjective in this sentence. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:27:32 +0100 From: "Gary Sedgwick" Subject: The times they are a changin' Hi everyone, Firstly, for everyone who has my work address (sedgwicg@midas-kapiti.com) in their address book, could you change it to the new address. I've finally got e-mail up and running from home! Secondly, it has been ages since I've posted to the list properly, but I have been lurking reading the digests. I've been busy beavering away at finishing my band's (Fly) debut album, which has been, with the exception of drums recorded in a studio, totally recorded and produced at home, although you probably wouldn't realise. Actually, I have a question to ask of all the technical musos on the list - I've been told that the disc-cutting process makes a big difference to professionally mastered records i.e. the engineers putting the well-produced gloss on a record with EQ, compression, etc. Does anyone know of any software which will do the same thing? Basically I have my tracks mixed and EQ'd as I want them, but it would be nice to run them though something to make them sparkle. I usually just slightly compress tracks to boost the level, but I don't think this is the same thing... Thirdly, I've also been busy designing a website for bands (or solo artists) such as mine. I've dreamt of doing this for an incredibly long time now, but it's finally in the process of happening now. The idea is a site which allows the artists as much freedom as realistically possible i.e. over the style of the site, what graphics go up, optional MP3 / CD / other sales, what (if any) songs to put up for free download, etc, etc. Most bands at the moment have a pretty clear idea of style and what audience they're trying to reach, and looking at the explosion of similar websites, to me most of them fail in this respect. And the new site will also have the advantage of being run by two guys who are doing it solely because they believe in the idea - we're not out to make huge pots of cash! This will be a serious venture though - we've already got hired a hefty server for the job. There should be an e-mail list up soon (woj has kindly offered to host it at smoe) so anyone interested can bounce ideas around about what they'd like to see from such a site, and these will all be used to get the site off the ground. I know there are a number of feg bands / artists out there, so please join the e-mail list when it's up and running and tell us what would make a good site! I'd like to thank woj for his help in all of this, and for okaying this post to the list. Just to make sure everyone is happy, some Robyn content... a little birdie whispered something to me about a Soft Boys reunion for next year... Gary PS I totally agree with Nat on Moss Elixir being a fantastic record, and Jewels being a bit of a let-down. PPS I picked up Storefront on DVD when I was over in the States recently... all criticisms of the DVD version aside, it works so much better than on the big screen. Maybe because you can play it over and over until it grows on you! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:51:00 -0400 From: overbury@cn.ca Subject: Re: Sweetwater show info On 6 Jun 00, at 10:38, Glen Uber wrote: > >From their monthly events calendar: > > His guitar and vocal style > recall INCREDIBLE STRING BAND or ROY HARPER. HAH! I compared Hitchcock to Harper way back and got little agreement. Vindication is mine. Mine! Mine!!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:15:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: r'n'r h.o.f. all over the world On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Eb wrote: > Hmm...perhaps Green Day is the catalyst, which set this applecart in > motion. Yes, no? i'm thinking also Weezer, with the look exaggerated so you know that the band is kidding. and... Nerf Herder? i don't know if there's a Patient Zero. my guess is that more and more bands did it to "prove" they were anti-stars and therefore eligible for the altrock hit machine. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:25:40 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: new world men On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Eb wrote: > Well, maybe "punk-pop" would've been more descriptive. "Frat-party punk"? > Dunno. beautiful. i'd say kill 'em all, 'cept i'm sorta with the Gloster...i thought green day had at least 3 or 4 good songs. ditto everclear; are they offenders? - -- d. - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:31:45 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: new world men >On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Eb wrote: >> Well, maybe "punk-pop" would've been more descriptive. "Frat-party punk"? >> Dunno. >beautiful. I was thinking "Prat-Farty Funk," but I get all screwed up with my fricatives sometimes or I may be suffering coincidently from dyslexia and Tourett's. >i'd say kill 'em all, 'cept i'm sorta with the Gloster...i thought green >day had at least 3 or 4 good songs. ditto everclear; are they offenders? Glad to hear that you, at least, won't be dining on my organs this evening. I bet a lot of people would lump Everclear in the bunch, but I like them too. Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:49:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: new world men On Tue, 6 Jun 2000 Mark_Gloster@3com.com wrote: > >i'd say kill 'em all, 'cept i'm sorta with the Gloster...i thought green > >day had at least 3 or 4 good songs. ditto everclear; are they offenders? > > Glad to hear that you, at least, won't be dining on my organs this > evening. I bet a lot of people would lump Everclear in the bunch, > but I like them too. Green Day and Everclear dont really belong in this group although may well have inspired some of these hipster doofuses. Another thing all these bands do is have their CDs sold diorect on TV for some outrageous price like $18.99 plus shipping and handling. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I Don't Speak Fascist" -Grant Morrison ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:50:39 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: all over the world Gloster quirked: >BUT I think that Kurt Cobain was not >a very good lyricist. What Nirvana did better than any band >since the Doors is to communicate the profound feeling of >disaffection of a part of a generation. They were a conduit >for emotion and insecurity rather than have a terribly >articulate, poetic, or useful message. If you read most of >the lyrics without musical accompanyment you are left with >"ninth grade suicidal loser kid rambling 'poetry.'" I might grant this for Nevermind and Bleach, but I thought there were some strongly evocative lyrics on In Utero. That's what part of what broke my heart about Cobain's death -- he was obviously still growing as an artist. I doubt Nirvana would've lasted more than another year or so anyway, but he might've had an impressive solo career afterwards. Aaron: >i'm thinking also Weezer, with the look exaggerated so you know that the >band is kidding. and... Nerf Herder? Mmmm...I don't quite put Weezer in the same category. That's much more of a pop thing, and an even lower-age demographic. And if memory serves, Nerf Herder was more in the novelty-metal vein, like Ugly Kid Joe. I remember seeing Weezer live, at the peak of their fame -- I have *never* felt so tall at a concert. The place was just *swarming* with 13-year-old boys running around, dodging friends by darting behind their mothers...weird, weird vibe. Most of the bands I'm talking about, you folks probably haven't heard of. They're so generic that only a few of them become generally known (and justifiably so). But if I went through my ongoing "reject list" for this year, I bet I could already come up with 20 or so names. Heaven help all those hideous Mojo Records releases which are lying around.... Anyone heard the new Bragg/Wilco album yet? I still don't have a copy. Eb, who always got a kick out of Howard Cosell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: mnf around the world Eb wrote: > I keep hearing how horrible Boomer was, but I haven't watched much > MNF in recent years so don't know what the fuss was about. well, in fairness to Boomer, he was sorta thrown to the wolves. MNF is not the proper arena to be learning how to do color commentary on a professional football broadcast. as such, he was rather unpolished (lots of ers, ums, etc), and some of his analysis was kinda obvious. that's not to say that had he started off doing 3rd & 4th tier games on fox or cbs[?] he couldn't have become pretty good; in fact, i think he would have. but he wasn't an absolute natural, and he needed a chance to learn how to do the job, which is never got. (and yes, he could have chosen to start elsewhere, so he definitely shares the blame). as for limbaugh, that's just a publicity stunt by abc so it looks like they're doing something about filling the job. abc was so sure that jimmy johnson or bill parcells and dan marino or steve young would jump at the chance that when they didn't (or haven't so far in the case of young) they didn't have a clue what to do. nevermind the real reason for the lack of ratings the last year (crappy games). and anyways, limbaugh is too defined in the public eye, and too off-putting to too many people, not so much for his politics but for his approach to them. anyone who decides to call then-13 year old chelsea clinton the white house dog is going to have a lot of people who agree with him basically thinking he's a first class asshole beyond reproach too. ===== "Life is just a series of dogs." -- George Carlin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:41:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: new world men Mark_Gloster@3com.com wrote: >>On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Eb wrote: >>> Well, maybe "punk-pop" would've been more descriptive. "Frat-party >>> punk"? Dunno. >>beautiful. > > I was thinking "Prat-Farty Funk," but I get all screwed up with my > fricatives sometimes or I may be suffering coincidently from dyslexia > and Tourett's. > >>i'd say kill 'em all, 'cept i'm sorta with the Gloster...i thought >>green day had at least 3 or 4 good songs. ditto everclear; are they >>offenders? > > Glad to hear that you, at least, won't be dining on my organs this > evening. I bet a lot of people would lump Everclear in the bunch, > but I like them too. well, the difference between everclear and green day and the rest of them is that the members of everclear and green day probably own records made before _nevermind_ was released. hell, i think some of them even made records before then (i'm not an afficianado of either, but i don't change the station should either show up on the radio either). ===== "Life is just a series of dogs." -- George Carlin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 08:41:47 +0100 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: Roy'n'Robyn overbury@cn.ca wrote: > > HAH! I compared Hitchcock to Harper way back and got little > agreement. ISTR you got some agreement. MAybe there aren't too many people here who listen to the 'other' RH? Stewart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 03:06:34 -0500 From: David Librik Subject: Re: Are we not men? We are frat rockers! Glen Uber wrote: > I think frat rock can be best described as: music that is generally listened > to by 18 - 25 year-olds either still in or fresh out of college. The music > itself isn't quite cutting-edge, but is different enough from the > "mainstream" (whatever that may be nowadays) to make it "hip". By the same > token, it isn't so cutting edge that it requires a listener's full attention > in order to appreciate the music, nor does it require that the listener have > taken a music theory class in order to understand its alternative-ness, ie > it's safe enough that it doesn't alienate a majority of the people. This is more or less a description of Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians in the '80s, you know. Also good old R.E.M. I just called it "college rock." (I knew my little obsession had hit the big time -- and that the world must slowly be becoming a better place -- when I heard "Balloon Man" blasting out of the windows of a frat house one spring afternoon in 1988.) - - David Librik ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:56:27 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: Are we not men? We are frat rockers! Glen Uber: >I think frat rock can be best described as: music that is generally listened >to by 18 - 25 year-olds either still in or fresh out of college. The music >itself isn't quite cutting-edge, but is different enough from the >"mainstream" (whatever that may be nowadays) to make it "hip". By the same >token, it isn't so cutting edge that it requires a listener's full attention >in order to appreciate the music, nor does it require that the listener have >taken a music theory class in order to understand its alternative-ness, ie >it's safe enough that it doesn't alienate a majority of the people. These are the folk that view music as a lifestyle accessory, rather something of intrinsic value. You can find out what they were listening to six months ago by checking the used CD bins today. - - Steve _______________ We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! - Andy Partridge ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:02:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: all over the world On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Eb wrote: > Mmmm...I don't quite put Weezer in the same category. That's much more > of a pop thing, and an even lower-age demographic. really? i saw the first album catch on with college hipsters. but anyway, it was the clothes i was thinking of -- the album cover was just them standing against a blue background in their dorky clothes, and at the time i remember thinking it was sort of unusual. as you point out, now it would be a massive cliche. > And if memory serves, Nerf Herder was more in the novelty-metal vein, > like Ugly Kid Joe. don't think so -- i haven't got a record of theirs to listen to, but i think they were pretty close to Smashmouth. were Harvey Danger before or after "Walking On The Sun"? > Anyone heard the new Bragg/Wilco album yet? I still don't have a copy. not as good as the first one but has its moments. Bragg writes a narrow majority of the songs, but three of them are sung by other people (Natalie Merchant, Jeff Tweedy and some gravelly-voiced guy who will never be Tom Waits each get one). having more people sing definitely fits the spirit of the album; too bad those are, in my opinion, the weakest tracks. what's this i hear about Bragg and Tweedy not getting along at all? aaron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:18:58 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: Are we not men? We are frat rockers! Far be it from me to defend frat boys (hell, I picked my university based on the fact that there were no frats, sororities, or sports teams), but YOU KNOW, just because they are big dumbassed guys in baseball caps living in a house with Greek letters on it does not AUTOMATICALLY mean that any music they listen to is automatically BAD!! Geez, you guys... such indie-rock snobs!!! l ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 07:31:54 -0700 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: Re: grease pop > Hmm...perhaps Green Day is the catalyst, which set this applecart in > motion. Yes, no? > > Eb the look is more Los Lobos than Green Day, is it not? - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 07:39:16 -0700 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: Re: Rush Limbo > I think that Limbaugh will do quite well as MNF announcer, at least much > better than Boomer, who's favorite phrase was "you know", counted 54 times > during one broadcast. RL is a die-hard Steelers fan, so I'm more concerned > over his bias on that than his political views. you use the word "will" rather than "would"...does that mean he's already been named as Boomer's replacement? Did I miss that announcement? - -rusS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:03:58 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: 195 minutes? My God, that's over three hours! >Eb (is "The Horse Whisperer" the most overlong film ever made?) No! No, Warren "Holier than Thou" Beatty's movie "Reds" was the most overlong film ever made! I mean, Reed's life was interesting and all, but towards the last few hours, I was just shouting, "Die! DIE already and end this thing! Argh -- DIIIIIIIE!" And bear in mind, I love long movies -- "Patton," "Lawrence of Arabia," "Dr. Zhivago," "The Godfather...." No problem! "I Claudius?" Miniseries be damned, bring the whole thing on! "Der Ring des Nibelungen?" Just waiting to be made! But some movies really overstay their welcome. Other films that I do not believe justified their unholy length were, indeed, "Horse Whisperer," "The Unbearable Lightness of Boring," and "Howard's End." Although I have not seen "The Green Mile," I hear it is a contender. Whew, thank you, Eb, for allowing me to get that off my chest! - --The Great "Rush is just too cool for the R&RHoF!" Quail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 17:12:33 GMT From: "James Hadfield" Subject: Re: all over the world >Anyone heard the new Bragg/Wilco album yet? I still don't have a copy. Downloaded it off Napster last night and not overly impressed with it on the first listen. But I think, like Wilco's last and even Mermaid Avenue, it will grow on me. Also downloaded Don Henley's new release last night and think that RS's 3 1/2 star review is somewhat flattering, to say the least... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:19:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: all over the world - --- Aaron Mandel wrote: [ Weezer] > really? i saw the first album catch on with college hipsters. but > anyway, > it was the clothes i was thinking of -- the album cover was just them > standing against a blue background in their dorky clothes, and at the > time > i remember thinking it was sort of unusual. as you point out, now it > would > be a massive cliche. Talking Heads, _More Songs About Buildings and Food_, 1978? Perhaps Weezer's was a little less arty. > were Harvey Danger before or after "Walking On The Sun"? I want to say after. Drew ===== Andrew D. Simchik, schnopia@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:25:05 -0700 (PDT) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: Are we not men? We are frat rockers! - --- lj lindhurst wrote: > Far be it from me to defend frat boys (hell, I picked my university > based on the fact that there were no frats, sororities, or sports > teams), but YOU KNOW, just because they are big dumbassed guys in > baseball caps living in a house with Greek letters on it does not > AUTOMATICALLY mean that any music they listen to is automatically > BAD!! I was told yesterday that it would be unconstitutional for me to knock NIN or Dave Matthews. I thought this was a nicely nonconfrontational thing to say given that I was experimenting with tracing my musical preferences back to one or more of the basic elements Kate Bush, the Cure, Robyn Hitchcock, and the Smiths. (Not entirely successful... Suede are half Smiths and half Bowie, for example. Splashdown = ? Half a cup of Cure and half a cup of Kate Bush, plus what?) I'm rambling. I won't say fratrock is crappy by definition but it's often crappy in practice. You're leading up to a defense of Dave Matthews, aren't you? Drew ===== Andrew D. Simchik, schnopia@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:34:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: 195 minutes? My God, that's over three hours! On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, The Great Quail wrote: > >Eb (is "The Horse Whisperer" the most overlong film ever made?) > > No! No, Warren "Holier than Thou" Beatty's movie "Reds" was the most > overlong film ever made! I mean, Reed's life was interesting and all, > but towards the last few hours, I was just shouting, "Die! DIE > already and end this thing! Argh -- DIIIIIIIE!" I think we can shed some light on this question by expressing overlongness (overlength?) as a percentage, rather than an absolute number. If, for example, a 100-minute movie contains 20 minutes of failures (unfunny jokes, boring action scenes, etc.) and sheer padding, we could say it was 20% overlong. By this standard, Reds, while 195 minutes long, might be only about 15% overlong, whereas The Waterboy, with a running time of a mere 90 minutes, is 100% overlong. - --Chris ps: It's a bit late to say this, but I thought that list of worst possible band names was absolutely hilarious. I read it while pretending to listen to a coworker, who fortunately was not insulted that I had to keep stifling my laughter as she spoke. pps: I had a slightly Robynesque dream last night. I dreamed I had a huge stick insect, at least 18 inches (45 cm) tall, as a pet. Later the stick insect disappeared and I had a cat and a praying mantis instead, but then the cat ate the mantis. ppps: To be honest, I never saw The Waterboy. ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 13:30:38 -0400 From: Stephen Buckalew Subject: 195 minutes? My God, that's over three hours! "Lawrence of Arabia" was the first "real" (i.e. adult) movie I saw (I was a pre-teen I think). Needless to say, it was pretty intense, and had a big affect on me...also saw "All That Jazz" later the same year, also had a big impact. Speaking of "Reds", when my best buddy and I were teens, we took LSD and went to see "Reds" (don't ask me why...'cause I don't know)....a very strange experience...and I think it didn't seem that *long* because time and space were already pretty distorted to us at that point! S.B. *************************************************************** "...isn't it good to be lost in the wood..."--Syd Barrett *************************************************************** Quail wrote: >And bear in mind, I love long movies -- "Patton," "Lawrence of >Arabia," "Dr. Zhivago," "The Godfather...." No problem! "I Claudius?" >Miniseries be damned, bring the whole thing on! "Der Ring des >Nibelungen?" Just waiting to be made! But some movies really overstay >their welcome. Other films that I do not believe justified their >unholy length were, indeed, "Horse Whisperer," "The Unbearable >Lightness of Boring," and "Howard's End." Although I have not seen >"The Green Mile," I hear it is a contender. > >Whew, thank you, Eb, for allowing me to get that off my chest! > >--The Great "Rush is just too cool for the R&RHoF!" Quail > > > > > ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #143 *******************************