From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #120 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, May 10 2000 Volume 09 : Number 120 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: eb ["Repent!, Inc." ] Re: traffic [Capuchin ] Re: traffic ["elizabeth " ] capitalist stooge, now racist capitalist stooge [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Re: eb ["J. Brown" ] Re: capitalist stooge, now racist capitalist stooge [Capuchin ] Re: eb ["J. Brown" ] Re: traffic [digja611@student.otago.ac.nz] Re: traffic (plus unrelated stuff) [steve ] Re: traffic [Aaron Mandel ] park and ride [Eleanore Adams ] Re: traffic (plus unrelated stuff) [Jeff Dwarf ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #118 [DDerosa5@aol.com] (No Subject) ["twofangs..aka..randi " ] Re: traffic - a remark [noe@corky.net] Re: traffic ["matt sewell" ] Re: traffic [noe@corky.net] you can have it all ["Ghost Surfer" ] Re: Feg [candl2@sensible-net.com] Re: traffic [Christopher Gross ] Re: traffic [overbury@cn.ca] cars and rock stars [Eleanore Adams ] Re: traffic, blind faith, and the spencer davis group [Jason Thornton Subject: Re: eb i'm telling you guys, i'm fucking psychic. i think that diamond-lane privilege should be based on mpg, rather than strictly the number of passengers. so, for example, two people driving some big honker that gets 12 miles to the gallon have an effective mpg of 24 mpg, you might say. yet they get to go in the carpool lane, while the single driver getting 40 mpg doesn't. this doesn't really apply to myself, before you jump to any conclusions. i leave rush hour (which lasts, in seattle, from about 2 until 7) a very wide berth. incidentally, there's a reprint of a very good paul sweezy essay from 1973 in the april Monthly Review about the automobilisation of america. scary to think how onerous the situation had become by *then* -- it of course being much, much worse now. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:02:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: traffic On Tue, 9 May 2000, Terrence Marks wrote: > Patently false. > http://www.snopes.com/spoons/fracture/german.htm Very interesting. I actually didn't hear anything about a vote in congress in 1795. The story I read was in the same spirit as Benjamin Franklin's turkey-as-national-symbol story. I seem to recall (from the same source) that German was preferable to english as the ties to England were being forcibly severed. I guess I believed it because it worked with my existing notion that the new government was perfectly happy shutting the general public out of governmental processes, etc. Thanks, Terry. J. - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:21:11 -0400 From: "elizabeth " Subject: Re: traffic - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "J. Brown" > While i agree with what you are saying, my response was in >reference to a comment specificaly about Southern California. And when >the issue of an official language is invoked in that context there always >some element of racism towards the large Hispanic community of that >region. Language requirements are often used to discriminate racially. Speaking as a resident of Los Angeles, I'll say that the strongest feelings I ever had on the subject were while living in a largely Russian neighborhood. Pretty much everyone was white, and about half spoke any English. One day my roommate and I came across a dead cat on the sidewalk that had clearly been the victim of some sick rituals. This sidewalk was across the street from a playground, and just as we found it one of our neighbors, an older woman, was coming from there with her two preschool-age grandchildren. We tried every form of verbal and body language we could come up with to convey that she should not bring the children in that direction. She just looked at us blankly and kept walking. We finally had to physically block her path (and that wouldn't have worked had there not been two of us). Now granted, seeing a horribly mutilated cat probably won't kill or maim the kiddies - but what if we'd been trying to warn her off something that could have? I'm not sure that I support an official language, but I do think that it indicates both good manners and a healthy sense of self-preservation to have at least a rudimentary grasp of the language that's spoken in the country in which you choose to live. As far as driving, I submit that you could cut traffic in LA by 90% in three years by revoking the license of everyone caught behaving like a complete cretin behind the wheel. Running four-way stops, trying to beat pedestrians through crosswalks, doing 45mph through parking garages, taking corners on two wheels without using a turn signal (and no, "I was on the phone" is NOT an acceptable excuse)... I'm tellin' ya, we'd be down to 1500 drivers in no time! - -- Elizabeth (formerly elizas33@aol.com) ************ listen to SmartToons Radio at http://www.fringehead.com/smarttoons - -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:36:31 EDT From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: capitalist stooge, now racist capitalist stooge Well, I have been called a racist on this list by more than a few people, which just makes me laugh. I lived in LA for many years and I think I understand the racial divide much better than someone who has never stood it in the face. I stand by my English requirement stance. California voters voted that classes had to be taught only in English. There must be a lot of racisits in California. Take your shots boys and girls. My track record speaks for itself. I taught English to illegal immigrants for a few years before moving to Phoenix. I donated soooo much of my time trying to help people learn a language that would help them to better themselves. I even learned a lot of Spanish just so I would be a better communicator. Now I don't know about the racists you guys know, but I guess if all racists donated their time to the cause of bettering society, we'd be better off with more racists. Some of my best friends in LA are illegal immigrants. This is a fact. Screw anyone who says I'm too good to ride public transit because of poor people. I used to hang out in areas of LA where no english was spoken, and I was the only white guy around. If you don't think that there is a safety issue with public transit in LA then you don't know what you are talking about. How many friends of mine have to be held up at gunpoint before I start to think "ok, I'm not going to be around here at night; it's too dangerous" Most of the people why cry "racist" are displaying nothing more than ignorance. It's just funny to me. I love these reactions, really. I know I don't type well and that my spelling isn't perfect. If it brings you pleasure to make fun on this, go right ahead; you're no friend of mine. You really cheapen the impact of the word "racist" when you just throw it around. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:41:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: eb On Tue, 9 May 2000, Repent!, Inc. wrote: > vehicles. I think we could all agree on that one.> > > i think that diamond-lane privilege should be based on mpg, rather than > strictly the number of passengers. so, for example, two people driving some > big honker that gets 12 miles to the gallon have an effective mpg of 24 mpg, > you might say. yet they get to go in the carpool lane, while the single > driver getting 40 mpg doesn't. That's silly the reason HOV lanes exist is to reduce congestion not increase fuel economy. plus if everybody drove their own 120 mpg Geo metro type cars by themselves that would be great for fuel economy but horrendous for traffic. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I was an I now I am a V" -John Linnell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:51:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: capitalist stooge, now racist capitalist stooge Damn. If you're a troll, you're certainly doing a good job on me today. Here I go again. On Tue, 9 May 2000 BLATZMAN@aol.com wrote: > I stand by my English requirement stance. California voters voted > that classes had to be taught only in English. There must be a lot > of racisits in California. Understand this much: Many of the immigrants in southern California are immigrant laborers who are not citizens. They cannot vote. Yet they are allowed to work and pay taxes and reap the benefits of the government. The people that made the law are not the people effected by it. Also note that poor people don't vote very much and people who have to go out of their way to get a ballot in their language (not to mention a voter's pamphlet) are also more likely to abstain. Laws that get passed by a vote of the public grossly underrepresent those two groups of people. > Take your shots boys and girls. My track record speaks for itself. > I taught English to illegal immigrants for a few years before moving > to Phoenix. Illegal immigrants or just immmigrants? > Screw anyone who says I'm too good to ride public transit because of > poor people. I used to hang out in areas of LA where no english was > spoken, and I was the only white guy around. So, because you were in an area where you were the only white guy, you obviously don't have a problem with poor people? I'm not with you, there. > If you don't think that there is a safety issue with public transit > in LA then you don't know what you are talking about. How many > friends of mine have to be held up at gunpoint before I start to > think "ok, I'm not going to be around here at night; it's too > dangerous" Hang around where at night? That's what I don't get. The area in which you live? > You really cheapen the impact of the word "racist" when you just throw it > around. I'd hate to cheapen the word racist for you. From what I hear, you're making a pretty penny off it. J. - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:56:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: eb On Tue, 9 May 2000, J. Brown wrote: > On Tue, 9 May 2000, Repent!, Inc. wrote: > > i think that diamond-lane privilege should be based on mpg, rather > > than strictly the number of passengers. so, for example, two > > people driving some big honker that gets 12 miles to the gallon have > > an effective mpg of 24 mpg, you might say. yet they get to go in > > the carpool lane, while the single driver getting 40 mpg doesn't. > > That's silly the reason HOV lanes exist is to reduce congestion not > increase fuel economy. plus if everybody drove their own 120 mpg Geo > metro type cars by themselves that would be great for fuel economy but > horrendous for traffic. Actually, I'm kind of with eddie on this one. Let's say your HOV lane is for cars with two or more passengers. Change that two "half or better" than the current average fuel consumption rate per individual. Then, people in inefficient vehicles would increase their burden to bring down the average efficiency per passenger and people in efficient vehicles will be rewarded. As the average efficiency increases, the number of people needed in any given car also increases. It's an interesting idea and might actually make people think differently about what it means to drive. OK. Going home now. J. - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:10:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: eb On Tue, 9 May 2000, Capuchin wrote: > > > i think that diamond-lane privilege should be based on mpg, rather > > > than strictly the number of passengers. so, for example, two > > > people driving some big honker that gets 12 miles to the gallon have > > > an effective mpg of 24 mpg, you might say. yet they get to go in > > > the carpool lane, while the single driver getting 40 mpg doesn't. > > > > That's silly the reason HOV lanes exist is to reduce congestion not > > increase fuel economy. plus if everybody drove their own 120 mpg Geo > > metro type cars by themselves that would be great for fuel economy but > > horrendous for traffic. > > Actually, I'm kind of with eddie on this one. > > Let's say your HOV lane is for cars with two or more passengers. Change > that two "half or better" than the current average fuel consumption > rate per individual. Then, people in inefficient vehicles would > increase their burden to bring down the average efficiency per passenger > and people in efficient vehicles will be rewarded. As the average > efficiency increases, the number of people needed in any given car also > increases. while novel its far too complicated to actually work. How would you inforce it? Simply put unless it was coupled with a real gas tax it wouldnt work. Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I was an I now I am a V" -John Linnell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 13:55:50 +1200 (NZST) From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz Subject: Re: traffic erk. Fegmaniax digests have come in thick and fast before, but I can honestly say that now there is far too much traffic on this list! Even the attempted application of Godwin's law didn't help. James np - No face, no name, no number.The emotion in young Stevie Winwood's voice is wondrous. nf - South Africa - ye olde technicolour y-fronts; the 'Dutch stripes" of red, white and blue overlaid with an arrowhead of the ANC's green, gold and black. James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:58:42 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: traffic (plus unrelated stuff) Christopher Gross: >Unitarians on Prozac Hey, I though UUs were already relaxed. Hitler couldn't drive - Steve _______________ We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! - Andy Partridge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:20:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: traffic On Wed, 10 May 2000 digja611@student.otago.ac.nz wrote: > erk. Fegmaniax digests have come in thick and fast before, but I can > honestly say that now there is far too much traffic on this list! Even > the attempted application of Godwin's law didn't help. i forget the guy's name, but Somebody's Lemma is that the regional version of Godwin's Law stating that the thread ends when Hitler is mentioned (which isn't in the original formulation, i don't think) doesn't apply if you do it on purpose. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:35:23 -0700 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: park and ride Well, I use every form of transport (which is why Capachin pointed out my contradictions - but they are true, I have had 9 cars but still used the bus 50% of the time, depending on weather and work hours) and just recently I tried using the car pool park and ride line. These are a little scary, especially for women, since they are the perfect scam for serial killers. If you don't have them in your home town, they are these designated parking lots in your city where you go and strangers who need to fill their car to be able to use the diamond lane pick you up and drive you into the city. I have sworn never to get into a strangers car, even if it was to better the world, but this one time (the park and ride is next to my bus stop) I tried it out. If you are a guy it is a great deal cause you can get a lift into San fran for free, but then again, you have no way home unless you made plans for another form of transport. All and all, I am just too damn scared to do it regularly. Just one time, get into a car with a psycho.... eleanore ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:58:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: Re: traffic (plus unrelated stuff) Christopher Gross wrote: > I'm afraid what we really need is a long, slow, difficult process of > building up public transport while encouraging new development to be > more friendly for public transit, bikes and pedestrians, at the same > time gradually ramping up the cost of driving, matching the increases > to increases in public transport. And because we're never going > to eliminate the personal car entirely, we also need to do everything > possible to encourage the development of less environmentally harmful > cars. You can't ban something deeply engrained in many people's > lives without providing them with an alternative. Whoops, another > sermon.... and specifically, what we need to do is make the internal combustion engine obsolete, like the rest of the belching 19th century technology we no longer use. why this one is fucking sacred while the others have been retired to the museums where they belong is a mystery, no wait, oil companies, nevermind. ===== "Life is just a series of dogs." -- George Carlin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:11:42 EDT From: DDerosa5@aol.com Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V9 #118 In a moronic message which quoted Paul Simon quoting John Donne, dave squirmed: << I mean, really, wouldn't life be great if it was just the people on this list (minus the socialists, of course) >> yes, minus me please. and multiply yourself. no, exponentialize yourself. no, make a list about yourself. and unsubscribe me. dave robyn is not on this list. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:55:21 -0400 From: "twofangs..aka..randi " Subject: (No Subject) What a lovely day this May the 8th... The smells of flowers and foliage; the amount of clear sky one can see; the rain; they are all together so wonderful that I am sometimes completely overwhelmed. "Birds of Paradise" just grow along the side of the road Chris...I'm trying to get tickets to Aimee Mann & Michael Penn. Carole...I'll be there in less than two weeks. Vivien, girl slumber-party, count me in. Nick I love your kids... Miles & Melissa - just not enough time... You all have no idea how cool Mark And Donne are...considerate, thoughtful, gentle, relaxed, smart...the nicest hosts one could possibly hope for... Eddie...sooooo looking forward to see Robyn with you.... Susan...I miss you... :{ The wonders of Aptos, Ca have engulfed me; and we are going to the aquarium early Wednesday :-} So I sleepily sign off... fading back into yesterday before tomorrow comes, Randi ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ *what scares you most will set you free* ~ robyn hitchcock *I feel the fear and I know I'm alive* ~ neil finn *acting steady always ready to defend your fears* ~ aimee mann *what I believe ain't always what I feel* ~ michael penn ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ get your free gURLmAIL at http://www.gURLmAIL.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:16:56 +0200 From: noe@corky.net Subject: Re: traffic - a remark > > Driving is NOT a right, and I think only English speaking citizens > > who have obtained the necessary license should be allowed to have a > > permanent license. > > A priviledge is an acquired right. You have the right to a driver's > license if you meet the minimum requirements. > > You do NOT have a RIGHT to drive. You are simply licensed and your > ability is legally recognized. there's a basic constitutional diffrence Btween *right* and *freedom* a freedom is not granted like right, it lives within a frame of other rights and freedoms and exist only on conditions that theyr'e not violated. well it's much nore complicated but this is the idea. > > > That alone would solve some of LA's congestion. > > You have no idea. > I'm not sure at all. here in Israel, driving license is givven only on the age of 17.5 (at 18 we go to the army), and only after passing both theoretical and practical tests. no provisional license is given, and b4 passing the tests, driving is alowed only accompanied by a certified driving teacher, in a special double system car (within the teacer can take control over breaks and clatch. a minimum of 20 lessons is acondition to apply for a test. very strict no? to tell you we don't have a driving, trafic and crashes problem? that would be a lie. now take for example Italy, Driving rules and licenecs are not the most enforced issued among the police there, and what we, and I refer to the western way of thinking, call order and regolated trafic, is defenitly not kept there, yet if you drive there , you get the impression that it's much safer and trafic problems are minimized. I believe it's all a matter of attitude. NOE (I believe this msg to be the worst English ever came out of my keyboard. but I can't be bother to rewrite it, hope when I come to america I can still drive) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:26:11 BST From: "matt sewell" Subject: Re: traffic >I've often thought some of the transportation problem in California could >be >relieved by simply enforcing the law. People should be required to have a >valid drivers license if they want to drive. And since driving is a >privlege, I think English should be mandatory if someone is to posess >anything more than a temporary permit. > >As a privlege, we should all be required to be able to communicate with >those >who enforce the laws. We should all be able to communicate at the scene of >an accident. Driving is NOT a right, and I think only English speaking >citizens who have obtained the necessary license should be allowed to have >a >permanent license. > You are having a laugh, aren't you? I really do hope you're just trying to wind us all up with incendiary comments..? Otherwise, I guess the world is a slightly more racist, bigoted, self-obsessessed, money-worshipping shithole than I thought is was... Yours I guess somewhat naively, Matt ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 12:05:34 +0200 From: noe@corky.net Subject: Re: traffic Terrence Marks wrote: > On Tue, 9 May 2000, J. Brown wrote: > > > Nothing racist about it. That'd give the same disadvantage to any person > -- white, black, asian, indian, or other -- who didn't speak English. Not > all of the whitefolk on the planet happen to, you know. Not all of the > whitefolk in the country do, either. It's discriminatory (against > non-Anglophones) but not racist. > and this could be easily filed under "Worlds most famous racism justification" Racism is, for a long time now, not a matter of biology matter. and being against imigrants at all is racism at it's best. especialy, as noted, in an imigration based country like the US. much like not granting the right to vote to analphabeth people in the 70s wasn't wasn't against Black ppl, and like here in Israel where extreame right wing want to denied rights from those who didn't complete army service aiming directly to the Arab minority who's not obliged to a national service. yach ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 02:15:55 PDT From: "Ghost Surfer" Subject: you can have it all >Subject: Yo La Tengo, RH and Neil Innes at RFH - I'm happy > >He played I Wanna Destroy You! He played I Wanna Destroy You!! >Yo La Tengo >at full throttle were superb accompanists. > >Also did Flavour Of Night, which was very fine too. Everyone was >generally >good (excellent in fact) apart from Sonic Boom, who was a waste of >space. > >jmbc ...Did two others as well in Brighton. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 05:30:38 -0400 From: candl2@sensible-net.com Subject: Re: Feg "J. Brown" wrote >>what is a feg? is there a meaning or is it a nonsense word? > >>Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA I have come to see FEG as a phonetic representation of the word "effigy" (f-e-g), as in the effigies of prehistoric art (animals and other figures found on pipes, bowls, burial mounds, etc.). Hence, the thing about which we are so Maniacal is Hitchcock's lyric, or the F.E.G.'s that populate the lyric - Wasp Madonnas hanging in F.E.G., like tattered rags reminding me; Trilobites come alive like Dead Wives from under the sea; eyelids covering Archaeology; knights and Thoths and Anubis just out of reach... Like sands thru the hourglass, so are the FEGs of our lives. :-) (sometimes) fyg >-- >Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche is chaunge >Withinne a thousand yere, and wordes tho >That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge >Us thinketh hem, and yit they spake hem so. > - Chaucer, "Troilus and Criseyde" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:51:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: traffic If you guys HAVE to fight, can't you at least fight nicely? If someone posts an idea that you think is racist, please, argue with the *idea*; don't just call the poster a racist. Insults and ad hominem attacks are out of place on this list. (They're bad debating tactics, too.) In my opinion, *no one* on this list has proven beyond reasonable doubt that they are racist. This isn't a courtroom, of course, but it would still be a good idea to apply the reasonable doubt standard before tossing around accusations of racism. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:32:45 -0400 From: overbury@cn.ca Subject: Re: traffic On 10 May 00, at 7:51, Christopher Gross wrote: > > If you guys HAVE to fight, can't you at least fight nicely? Yeah, this combination of sophistry and bitchiness loses its entertainment value pretty quickly. That observation alone would not, in my opinion, warrant a posting to this list, but I also happen to have an important message for y'all: Please cook your fiddleheads well !! Yesterday I learned this the hard way. - -- "and it burns, burns, burns, that ring of fire" - -- J. Cash ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:49:16 -0700 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: cars and rock stars Has any of you who have TV's seen the commercial for Jaguar by Sting - what do rock stars dream of? Apparently they dream of the jaguar s-series. (since we are talking about cars, environment, and music...I thought sting was an environment kind of guy, but I guess not) I have my constitutional law exam this morning, and no, there is no "fundamental " right to have a drivers licence. You do have a fundamental right to travel, but that does not mean that the govt has to provide the means. (I have so much f*ing law in my head I feel like i am going to explode!!!) elenaore ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:43:00 -0700 From: Jason Thornton Subject: Re: traffic, blind faith, and the spencer davis group At 03:24 PM 5/9/00 -0700, Capuchin wrote: > > >Most importantly, LA is congested because the people there give shit > > >only for themselves and the entertainment industry. > > OK, now this comment is just about as silly as Blatzman's. Enough with > the > > LA-bashing already... > >Jason, you can't deny that most of the culture in LA revolves around the >entertainment industry and it is, for many, a singular measure of a man. Well, it's quite easy to deny, Jeme, because it is simply not true. While certain aspects of Los Angeles culture do revolve around the entertainment industry, it is not at all true that most people in the area, or even a sizeable portion of them, care solely for themselves or that industry. That is a gross misrepresentation, expounded by the amount of attention everyone else in the world pays to the entertainment sub-culture in Los Angeles. But, granted, like everywhere, there are folks in LA who measure "success" in such a fashion - by money, fame, power. That's hardly new or unique to LA, is it? Of course, people *IN* the industry focus a disproportionate amount on their industry. Big deal. It's called "talking shop." People in every field fixate on their own industry. People in the computer industry watch closely the new software and hardware innovations and spout off about how their new technology is somehow going to "change the world." People working in higher education follow the changes in admissions policies at other universities and become religiously vehement about the importance of a college degree. People in small fishing communities are greatly interested in fish. This hardly suggests that these folks are necessarily lack concern for other people or the rest of the world. The problem is not with the individuals in Hollywood who only give a shit about the entertainment industry, it's with *EVERYONE ELSE* who pays extremely close attention to it, like the unconnected "average Joe" in Portland who buys People Magazine to find out who Julia Roberts is dating. >A great majority of the people I've met in LA (and all of the people >I've met that are from LA and happy staying there) appear to think only >of themselves and the entertainment industry. Having lived my entire life in Southern California, much of it in LA, my sampling differs greatly. Believe it or not, Jeme, the vast majority of people in LA have very little or absolutely no contact with the entertainment industry. Or have the same kind of contact with it that everyone else in the world does - through entertainment media (television, movies, etc.). You're just a tad more likely to have Michael Keaton sitting in the booth next to you at a pizza joint down here is all. Sure, there are shallow, self-centered people in LA. Sure, some of them work for the studios. But, these types of selfish, egotistical people are everywhere. You're basing your assessment of an entire city, a whole industry, on the jerks. And, perhaps, on an often shoddy product. > > --Jason "Metallica were the GOOD guys" Thornton > >This had better be a joke. Nope. Sorry. I refuse to defend thieves and pirates. Just because something immoral is done "online" hardly means that this practice should be considered "above the law." - --Jason "the best thing to come out of Hollywood was me" Thornton - --Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #120 *******************************