From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #118 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, May 9 2000 Volume 09 : Number 118 Today's Subjects: ----------------- The cars she used to drive us crazy, woo woo ["JH3" ] Re: The cars she used to drive us crazy, woo woo ["JH3" ] I am an Ad, I am an Island [BLATZMAN@aol.com] Re: The cars she used to drive us crazy, woo woo ["JH3" ] side note to main argument [ultraconformist ] all over the world ["Repent!, Inc." ] Re: side note to main argument [dmw ] heh heh [Bayard ] a lyrics quiz all over the world [digja611@student.otago.ac.nz] Re: a lyrics quiz all over the world [Capuchin ] George Orr all over the world [Natalie Jacobs ] Re: George Orr all over the world ["J. Brown" ] beauty and the west coast - may 8th - 12:40 ["twofangs..aka..randi " ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 11:53:34 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: The cars she used to drive us crazy, woo woo I had several paragraphs written on this subject last night, but what Jeme sent in today was almost identical! So I'll spare you that part, but there's still quite a bit left, I'm afraid... >Of course. But the nastiness in the jokes was directed at the >drivers rather than the advertisers, which was my point. Well, of course I just said that *presumably* I'd be driving one of the pickup trucks. Not "definitely"... Besides, I'm a nasty person in general. Ask anyone! >>What I said, very explicitly, was that the corporations are the >>enemies--not the people so desperate to make a few extra bucks >>that they're reduced to shilling via their cars. And that blaming the >>latter is bullshit that makes a mockery of your alleged concern. >neither jeme, john, or myself ever blamed the latter. nor did we >ever imply any such thing. I don't think I specifically blamed them before, but the implication *was* probably there. Jeme has already made this argument better than I can, but forgiving everyone who does this because *some* of them *might* be financially desperate is - well, exactly what THEY want you to do, isn't it? At some point we have to quit saying things like "the corporations are the enemies" and realize that we *ourselves* are the enemies. We, the human race, are the ones who are happily destroying this nice planet and trying to make life miserable for everything on it. The fact that some of us have organized into "corporations" to make that process more efficient is irrelevant. *We're* the ones who allow the laws that make incorporation a good idea to stand. By putting it in terms of "us" vs. "them", you're de-personalizing the "enemies" (who are, in fact, actual people - us) and *removing* the burden of responsibility from them - "I'm not the one messing things up; it's this corporation I work for." What do you think would happen if people who sued corporations and won were allowed to take the personal assets of everyone working for those corporations? There would be fewer corporations, wouldn't there? Of course, I'm now officially taking the whole thing way too seriously. All I'm saying is that the only way you can reverse these trends is to create social/cultural/legal stigmas against them. The law isn't going to help in this case, so if you don't create a cultural stigma around it (no matter what the financial status of these people might be), then you've basically given up. And you can't create stigmas out of thin air; you have to stir up popular opinion with outrageous and sometimes even drastic statements, jokes, gags in popular movies, lyrics in Robyn Hitchcock albums, etc. etc. (You were probably wondering when I'd throw in the obRobyn mention.) OTOH, now that I've thought about it some more, I actually doubt this car-wrapping concept will catch on. Maybe a guy driving a mobile advertisement will get drunk and smash into a school bus, and the parents will sue the advertiser and win... Or maybe it'll just be some guy in a focus group saying, "I used to drink Pepsi until this asshole in a Pepsi-mobile cut me off on I-95 and nearly killed my whole family," and they'll realize what a stupid idea it is. After all, when you're driving, other cars are at best an obstruction, at worst a lethal missile aimed directly at your face. If that missile has "McDonald's" written on it, there's a decent chance it's going to put you off Big Macs for a while. Anyway, if I offended anybody, I apologize. (Really!) JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 13:03:15 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: The cars she used to drive us crazy, woo woo >Woah! Are you sure you aren't Jeme? Or rather, did you perhaps >enter into his body this morning and give me this exact lecture? The second thing. (Btw, I *really* like the new tattoo! Oops, I meant *his*, not yours...) John H. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:53:48 EDT From: BLATZMAN@aol.com Subject: I am an Ad, I am an Island So good to see so many people who know so much! I would take the money. RIght Now. I'm for sale and I'm proud of it. And I don't care what some whiney twit thinks about it. I've worked my ass off all my life and made some hard decisions. If someone wants to pay me for doing very little, I'll do it! And if your delicate eyes have to see another ad, you deal with it. I've often thought that the main problem with the world was that their were other people in it. I mean, really, wouldn't life be great if it was just the people on this list (minus the socialists, of course) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:29:23 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: The cars she used to drive us crazy, woo woo >The second thing. [etc.] Uh, sorry folks, that was a public reply to a private e-mail. I try never to do that, really I do... Try to forgive me. Meanwhile, Dave B. writes: >I would take the money. RIght Now. I'm for sale and I'm >proud of it. And I don't care what some whiney twit thinks >about it. I've worked my ass off all my life and made some >hard decisions. No offense, but referring to "whiney twits" immediately prior to a sentence about how you've worked your ass off all your life is a bit heavy on the irony, isn't it? Why not just admit that it isn't just the opinions of "whiney twits" that you don't care about, but rather anyone who disagrees with you? At least then you wouldn't be insulting anyone in particular. Sorry, that's just my standard knee-jerk reaction when people use the "w" word. We should all probably drop the whole subject... John "hardly a socialist, and I'd much rather nobody knew how hard I supposedly work" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 15:01:07 -0700 From: ultraconformist Subject: side note to main argument Not mixing up in the main argument. This is just to say tho, that there are PLENTY of places in the US with shitty or NO public transit. It's not "rare". In addition to people who live -outside- of cities and large towns, who have unreliable or zero access to such, and people who live in areas of cities and large towns which is technically "covered", but it's a bus that runs at 5 am every alternate Saturday when it's sunny, there are also those cities and towns which were primarily built-up in the post-automobile age. I grew up in such a place (Dallas, TX), and they're more common than you might think. There are like 4 bus routes or something, total. These places were built, I think, with the idea that there was lots o'land to use and it's cheap, so why not spread out, and in the future we'll all have cars anyway, eh? And most people DID, so public transit, what there is of it, is not exactly a high priority item with the public itself, because "who takes that? do you know anyone without a car?". You have to have one of the darn things even to get groceries or whatever, I mean -nothing- is within walking distance, so it's not a luxury item where I came from, it's more like a "sell your soul to have one if you gotta" item. Anyway, much of the Southwest and California is like that, I know from personal experience, and I would not be surprised if it was actually the norm for -much- of the country. Bad or no public transit, combined with space developed under the assumption everyone had or would have cars, is very, VERY common in areas of the US that saw a large portion of their development within the last 60-70 years. I would even go so far as to say that it's only a handful of older cities like NY, Boston, Chicago, and yes, Portland is an older city too, that have anything resembling a transit system with broad-reach. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 16:15:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: freedom to make a buck On Mon, 8 May 2000, Capuchin wrote: > A person with a sign adhered to their car while they drive it about > town on personal business is doing nothing but letting the world know > that the space they occupy is a commodity for sale to the highest > bidder. Personal space is not a commodity. Neither is my line of > sight. this is a very good point. our (slightly) increasing sophistication about advertising is part of the advertiser's excuse -- "oh, people see ads all the time and don't go crazy. obviously if they really want to, they can tune them out." but for that same reason, putting ads in new places encourages people to withdraw further into an interior world. i don't have a personal attachment to the sides of other people's cars, and i certainly don't feel proprietary toward them. but nor do i want to feel alienated when i look at them. > I do not purchase clothing with prominent, unremovable logos. well, except ones you like, right? (as with the robyn shirts.) part of what's going on is that a lot of us brave pioneer Americans have rolled over and accepted that pretty much anything the corporate voices say is more interesting than anything we would be thinking about ourselves. a lot of companies try to figure out how to buy word-of-mouth. there's a spec out there for a digital music format such that if you pass on a "distribution-permitted" song to a friend and they buy the album, you get some money back. this pisses me off, but it's only the fact that they're itching to *coerce* that bothers me. my own actions right now are pretty much exactly what they'd want to accomplish with that format anyway, which is to say that when i like a song, i make a point of playing it for my friends. i want to know MORE about what my friends enjoy, not less. this paid passive advertising isn't some vile invention of the big corporations, it's a vile simulacrum of existing, healthy human behavior. while i heartily agree with what was said about not dehumanizing the corporations in the act of blaming them (which is inaccurate and moreover lets all the complicit people off the hook), there's some significance to the impersonality with which the companies present themselves. hedges makes a good point about the car thing being likely to die on its own; soon they will realize that they're potentially buying *really bad* advertising. and eventually one of mycar's clients will try suing somebody for crashing a car with their ad on it, which that will be the end of that. by the way: BLATZMAN, if you're accepting money in return for other people controlling your self-expression, how much would it cost to see "I am a capitalist whiner! Socialism rules! Marx had the right idea!" at the bottom of all your posts? aaron ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 May 2000 14:07:56 PDT From: "Repent!, Inc." Subject: all over the world well, both rosso and dede went absolutely apeshit when i mentioned it to them, so i suppose y'all might be interested as well. . ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 17:12:42 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: side note to main argument On Mon, 8 May 2000, ultraconformist wrote: > Not mixing up in the main argument. This is just to say tho, that there are > PLENTY of places in the US with shitty or NO public transit. It's not > "rare". Susan is sadly right, but there is another, related phenomenon: people who routinely drive frequently don't research the available public transit options, and in my unscientific opinion have a vastly inflated opinion of the inconvenience and encumbrance associated with the use of public transit. For a specific example, i've heard people grouse about San Francisco's system, which blows my mind, because San Francisco has one of the best systems i've seen in the US. It's *way* better than DC's system in several critical particulars (although it's a shame BART shuts down so early). But i think it's significant that when DC commuter rail passengers are subjected to the sorts of delays that are de rigeur on the roads, riots (literally in at least one case) erupt. - -- d., charter subscriber _Car Busters_, tired of being hit by SUVs. np eyeliners _here comes trouble_ - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 17:33:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: heh heh http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=327448958 also: http://paylars.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:47:23 +1200 From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz Subject: a lyrics quiz all over the world Boring boring boring... some are talking politics, some are discussing live gigs of other bands, some are building monuments, others are jotting down notes, and some have even resorted to (shudder) talking about Robyn Hitchcock! We can't have that! Here's somethiong to keep you amused for ten minutes or so - a lyric quiz. A pretty simple one, for the most part, with one or two nasty ones thrown in. Most of these lyrics come from songs of the 70s, 80s and early 90s, but there's a few weirdies thrown in for good measure. No prize, just the satisfaction of a quiz well answered. There are fifty lyrical bits from songs below. What are the songs, and who are they by. Use of lyrics search engines is cheating! Everyone here should get a few, and a few of you should get at least every one. Oh, and as a common decency, the only NZ and Australian ones should be reasonably well know outside this region. BTW - Mike, did you ever send the answers to that lyrics quiz you did just before Christmas? (Digest 8/465) I never saw the answers and there are still some that bug me... any chance of you sending me a copy, pretty please? Part one: what were they on? 1. "You probably ate them, thinking they were a carrot!" 2. I kiss the ground on which you walk; I kiss the lips through which you talk; I kiss the city of New York 3. I never learned why meteors were formed - I only farmed in schools that were so worn and torn 4. No doubt you've heard about a door through the northern pole. It's hard to believe. 5. I can see my life before me running rings around the way it used to be 6. I would welcome a horse's kick to send me back if I could find a horse not made of sand 7. In an interstellar burst, I am back to save the universe! 8. Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten 9. As the cavalry of despair takes a stand in the lady's hair 10. Riding the backs of giraffes for a laugh is all right for a while 11. It's never delicate, just something from the Iron Age 12. My possessions are causing me suspicion but there's no proof Part two: what we did in our holidays (or what we intend to do) 13. Well, we've been fighting with the mujahaddin down in Afghanistan 14. A while ago somewhere I don't know when, I was watching a movie with a friend. I fell in love with the actress 15. Feeding ducks in the park and wishing you were far away 16. We sat and talked of revolution, just like two liberals in the sun 17. You might even shake the hands of presidents - better send a postcard and keep the family quiet 18. Burning my bridges and smashing my mirrors, turning to see if you're cowardly 19. When you reach Kyoto send a postcard if you can 20. Push your old numbers and let your house ring 21. I took her to a supermarket, I don't know why but I had to start it somewhere 22. Sitting on the potty, and curing smallpox 23. Number twelve - scraping the garden; number thirteen - putting the garden in the house 24. Just try and relax, yeah, cool it - fall apart in my backyard Part three: personal philosophies 25. If your heart is a flame burning brightly, you'll have light and you'll never be cold 26. Why pamper life's complexities when the leather runs smooth on the passenger seat? 27. I was punk - now I'm just stupid 28. If you know who you are you are your own superstar, and only you can shape the music that you make 29. You've got to drift in the breeze before you set your sails 30. Would not our world turn cold if the sun refused to shine? 31. There's more than one answer to these questions pointing me in a crooked line 32. To get involved in the exchange of human emotions is ever so satisfying 33. You'll always find us out to lunch 34. Make sure that you're receiving the signals they send, 'cause brother you've only got two hands to lend 35. You're a teaser, you turn them on, leave them burning and then you're gone looking out for another 36. I hope the day will never come when I can't awake to the sound of drum Part four: anything goes 37. Me revoici dans ce bar enfume avec mes yeux ivres 38. Stuck inside of Memphis with a mobile home 39. This stick was signed by Jean Belliveau, so don't fucking tell me where to fucking go! 40. She's got one in the oven but it's nothing to do with me 41. I've been wading through all this unbelievable junk and wondering if I should have given the world to the monkeys 42. Am I dreaming? I can hear her screaming "Hiya Mr Jackson, everything's OK" 43. He licked at one, he licked the other, he went in circles, he dropped dead 44. She rules her life like a fine skylark, and when the sky is starless 45. In a highway service station, over the month of June was a photograph of the earth taken coming back from the moon 46. Trails burning everywhere, sulphur fingers in the air 47. Mining companies, pastoral companies, uranium companies, collected companies 48. There were tropical breezes and a wide open sea - I remember my childhood 49. At the age of ten she looked like Greta Garbo 50. Why do you record my phonecalls? Are you planning a bootleg LP? James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 17:09:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: a lyrics quiz all over the world I'm all for another reverse quiz. I'd absolutely HAVE to do better than this one. On Tue, 9 May 2000 digja611@student.otago.ac.nz wrote: > 8. Neptune, Titan, stars can frighten > 46. Trails burning everywhere, sulphur fingers in the air I think you now see exactly where our musical tastes overlap, James. This either proves that the feglist has a wide diversity of musical interests or that I'm a goon. I vote for the latter. J. - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 01:39:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: George Orr all over the world YES!! Uh... anyone taping this? apeshit n. On Mon, 8 May 2000, Repent!, Inc. wrote: > > > well, > both rosso and dede went absolutely apeshit when i mentioned it to them, so > i suppose y'all might be interested as well. > . > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 23:08:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Brown" Subject: Re: George Orr all over the world since this showing is coupled with a bill moyers interveiw id suspect its playing on PBS nationwide that weekend and not just in seattle. But i'll be taping regardless ;-) On Tue, 9 May 2000, Natalie Jacobs wrote: > YES!! > > Uh... anyone taping this? > > apeshit n. > > > On Mon, 8 May 2000, Repent!, Inc. wrote: > > > > > > > well, > > both rosso and dede went absolutely apeshit when i mentioned it to them, so > > i suppose y'all might be interested as well. > > . > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > Jason Wilson Brown - University of Washington - Seattle, WA USA BA History '99 - BA Canadian Studies '99 - MLIS Library Science '01 "I was an I now I am a V" -John Linnell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 03:44:50 -0400 From: "twofangs..aka..randi " Subject: beauty and the west coast - may 8th - 12:40 Oh James, 'Tis 12:23 am on Monday morning... I will declare that the ocean was fierceness & beauty entwined... While the cats Donne, Mark, and I see on or journeys in the neighbourhood, are mostly sweet with a glimmer of ferociousness. I'm having such a good time.... It's been years & years since I've felt so good. Aptos & SanFran, the company of fegs, cats, and the ocean...plus Donne's magical soup have lifted my tummy from death-pain-land to somewhere liveable. I can tell already, I'm never going to want to go back to Toronto. The West Cost is splendid for me. I seriously can't remember a time in the last 20 years that I've felt so good. Millions of cheers and bucketfuls of love to Mark and Donne. And thanks Ross for your message - it was very sweet. oh - It seems I will be attending one, maybe two Aimee Mann - Michael Penn shows at Bimbo's 365 in SanFran before I head up to Portland. No cover - just a two drink minimum bay area fegs... :} And dear Vivien, if you saw/are going to see the show in Portland, write me please! :} fading back into yesterday before tomorrow comes, Randi ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ *what scares you most will set you free* ~ robyn hitchcock *I feel the fear and I know I'm alive* ~ neil finn *acting steady always ready to defend your fears* ~ aimee mann *what I believe ain't always what I feel* ~ michael penn ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ get your free gURLmAIL at http://www.gURLmAIL.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 05:41:49 -0400 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: Yo La Tengo, RH and Neil Innes at RFH - I'm happy He played I Wanna Destroy You! He played I Wanna Destroy You!! Yo La Tengo at full throttle were superb accompanists. Also did Flavour Of Night, which was very fine too. Everyone was generally good (excellent in fact) apart from Sonic Boom, who was a waste of space. jmbc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 11:40:33 PDT From: "Repent!, Inc." Subject: eb all over thee world fegDREAM!: dreamed that michael keefe had hired michael wolfe to work at the record store; and then after some time michael wolfe had bought in, becoming a full partner. while i was down there visiting/hanging out, they were busy constructing a device to ensnare the meat puppets. basically how it was supposed to work was that it had the voices of corin, carrie, and janet playing in an endless loop -- just talking, is all. and this was to be some sort of siren call (if you will), luring the meat puppets to check it out. and when the machine detected that the meat puppets were indeed checking it out, it would eject, in a nice long arc, an asparagus popsicle; which the meat puppets would begin to chase down to try to catch it before it hit the ground -- but their sudden motion would trigger the machine to somehow trap them and truss them up. while they were working on this project, michael k. put on an old, beat-up, vinyl copy of ZEN ARCADE. i said, "ah, one last spin, eh?" michael, looking quite aghast, cried, "no!" i, a bit taken aback, asked, "but what if you sell it?" he said that in that case they could open up a new copy, and play it instead. you do realise that this would mean no more robyn? (and if you think this list is too off-topic now, well...) this new mr. t experience record is HORRIBLE. it's so bad that i'm seriously considering packaging it up and mailing it to them, with a letter saying something like: if this is the best you can do anymore, please hang it up. it's even worse than the dr. frank solo record, which was certainly bad enough. the new lou, on the other hand, is quite good (i think). i mean, the lyrics are a bit weak, i must say. but the music is stellar, and his voice sounds really good. i'll tell ya, i can't recall it ever having rained so hard in the month of may than it is doing right now. KEN "Tasting much sweeter than wine" THE KENSTER ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #118 *******************************