From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #22 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, January 24 2000 Volume 09 : Number 022 Today's Subjects: ----------------- okay - a real hi ["randi..aka..twofangs" ] Re: embarassing ["Stewart C. Russell" ] seven pairs of shades ["Stewart C. Russell" ] ARGH! (re Cat Stevens) [Jeffrey_Rose@eri.eisai.com] Trolling for List proggies [The Great Quail ] offer (with a disclaimer) [John Barrington Jones ] We got's a winner [John Barrington Jones ] embarrass [dmw ] another decade list (off the beaten path) [Eb ] supertramp and oasis ["jbranscombe@compuserve.com" ] Re: another decade list (off the beaten path) [Glen Uber ] re: Me & Opus & Justin & the hole [Stephen Buckalew ] Re: A score of scores [Eb ] Request for the CD geeks [The Great Quail ] Re: Request for the CD geeks [Christopher Gross ] Cheese Alarm Lyrics [Tom Clark ] Re: supertramp and oasis ["James Hadfield" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:37:39 -0500 From: "randi..aka..twofangs" Subject: okay - a real hi So, uh, "hi" Scoop for all - surgeon said: surgery + rand = .... "33.3% chance of getting worse" "33.3% chance of staying the same" "33.4% {yes, I 'stole' the extra % point } chance of getting 10% better" I have a degree in math and chemistry ... But I needed no equation to solve this dilemma ... Said Dr. Randi ... "am I a ticking time bomb?" Said Dr. Yoda ... "not as long as you are careful" Said Dr. Randi ... "okay ... uh ... bye!" So I shall recoup and then go 'a feg visiting :-} U.S. of A only I'm afraid ... but it will be my first vacation ever! Anyone willing to put me up will be surprised by how much s/he - they - will be entertained by moi ... Yes, I will entertain for a floor to sleep on :-} Oh - that sounds bad - but you know what I mean 8-} Okay - sleepy me ... But love to all who have called / written /sent photos, books, room decorations ;-}, and music ... So many of you have proved to be not only great people ... but great friends. And so you have been warned - you will be hearing from me this week ... {evil laugh - ha ha ha} Btw - I lost my addy book Do *yet another* good deed for me pleeeease ... Send me snail mail & phone numbers in your emails ... Merci ... fading back into yesterday, Randi *what scares you most will set you free so send your phone numbers over to me* ~ Robyn Hitchcock & Randi Spiegel my guiltiest pleasure album this year ... Hole ... Celebrity Skin ... long story ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:21:58 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: Re: embarassing John Barrington Jones wrote: > > oh, okay, you want to play that way, then?? > > my wife has a Basia cd. I try not to look at it. Hah! You think *that's* bad? My former landlord used to show off his incredibly expensive Linn hifi by playing the *Matt*Bianco* album, which also featured Basia Needless to say, we moved out. Stewart (hi Eb, 10 mins early this morning...) - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:15:38 +0000 From: "Stewart C. Russell" Subject: seven pairs of shades Anyone recall a picture of Robyn -- circa 1979-80 -- wearing multiple pairs of shades? In "Repossessed", Julian Cope claims he nicked the idea from "Nigel Simpkins", the nom-de-disque of a mad producer who was once Julian's manager. - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jan 2000 09:39:27 -0500 From: Jeffrey_Rose@eri.eisai.com Subject: ARGH! (re Cat Stevens) The movie Rushmore had that Cat Stevens song ("The Wind") in the soundtrack. I hadn't heard this in YEARS but it worked surprisingly well in the film. There were a few other cool older tunes there too. "Ooh La La" by the Faces and some obscure Who stuff come to mind. Jeffro ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:44:11 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Trolling for List proggies >>4. YES - THE LADDER - 65 > >Hmmm...I'm not even sure who is in Yes anymore. I have no idea how this >sounds. >>9. JETHRO TULL - DOT COM - 39 > >See Yes comment. Then let me comment: The Yes album sucks. Simple as that. The Tull album is actually quite good. If you liked "Catfish Rising," I'd warrant you'd like the (admittedly poorly named) new Tull album. It has some genuinely great songs on it, and only one that sort of lamely embarrasses. Unlike the Yes album, which has maybe two listenable songs, and a lot of mucky wishy-washy filler. I miss the Yes of old. Sigh. - --Quail, who comes out of the sky and stands there. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Great Quail, Keeper of the Libyrinth: http://www.libyrinth.com Do you want to see what human eyes have never seen? Look at the moon. Do you want to hear what ears have never heard? Listen to the bird's cry. Do you want to touch what hands have never touched? Touch the earth. Verily I say that God is about to create the world. --J.L. Borges ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:24:21 -0800 (PST) From: John Barrington Jones Subject: offer (with a disclaimer) For Mac Fegs: I have a cd-r I made about a year ago of Robyn mp3's. The disc spans from BSDR to about halfway through Perspex Island, with everything in between. All tracks were encoded at 128/44 using Mpecker Encoder. Disclaimer: I believe that encoding algorithms have improved since then, and I have since switched to Audio Catalyst for my mp3 encoding. Anyhow, there is barely discernible squeaking in the mp3's, a byproduct of the encoder I used. It will bug you if you are listening for it, but most times I enjoy the songs too much to think about it. This goes to the first Mac user on the list to contact me. You must be able to prove to me that you are a Macintosh user. Mostly because the cd is Mac-formatted. But also because I'm partial :). =jbj= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 10:58:08 -0800 (PST) From: John Barrington Jones Subject: We got's a winner Viv Lyon was the first to email me. But thanks to all those who respnded. =jbj= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:02:56 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: embarrass whenever one of these threads comes up, i'm always amazed at how many things get listed that i think ought not to embarrass anyone -- _black monk time_, f'r instance, which was seminal. (not only has it just been re-issued, but someone's dug up some earlier, (less noisy & interesting) recordings under the name _five upstart americans_. and wasn't someone embarrassed by buck owens? actually, i guess some of his later stuff was pretty atrocious, but he did some fabulous western swing stuff in his early days. i don't get in a hard rock/heavy metal mood very often these days, but it does happen now and then. so i guess i'll go with a michael schenker group album for my most embarrassing pick (i have several; they're all pretty much equally embarrassing. schenker played lead guitar on the first couple scorpions albums before joining ufo, and it's pretty embarrassing that i even know that). - -- d. n.p. smalltown superstar _lanes 23 & 24_ ...well at least there's only 5 songs on it... - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:26:51 -0800 From: Eb Subject: another decade list (off the beaten path) Stewart: >Anyone recall a picture of Robyn -- circa 1979-80 -- wearing multiple >pairs of shades? In "Repossessed", Julian Cope claims he nicked the idea >from "Nigel Simpkins" Or "Walls and Bridges"? - --- CDNow has posted a list of its top five *soundtracks* of the decade: 1. Pulp Fiction 2. Twin Peaks 3. Until the End of the World 4. Singles 5. Cinema Paradiso Huh. I own #2, #3 and #4 -- Until the End of the World is definitely up there. Not sure about the other two. Some other candidates come to mind: Edward Scissorhands, Night on Earth, Natural Born Killers, Backbeat, Judgment Night, Faraway So Close, Dead Man Walking.... Thoughts? (Eddie, you needn't respond -- we already know what you'll say. ;)) Go Ennio, Eb now ehhing: Scritti Politti ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:28:33 -0500 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: supertramp and oasis James Hadfield wrote- >Everybody thinks they're right, or entitled to be, even when they don't know what the fuck they're talking about.< Oh dear, I must be wrong then James. I'm sorry I said that I thought Supertramp were without merit. I obviously don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, and I'll make sure I never express an opinion again because I'm quite clearly one of those people who isn't entitled to one. jmbc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:58:38 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Trolling for List proggies On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, The Great Quail wrote: >Subject : Re: Trolling for List proggies I've spotted another proggie. This morning I went by Bayard's door and distinctly heard a Yes song playing. It was "All Good People," I believe. No doubt Bayard will try to claim that this was just because his clock radio is set to a classic rock station, but we know the truth -- he's a closet proggie. Re: the previous thread, my selection was meant as a cheesy album, not an embarrassment or a guilty pleasure. I'm not embarrassed about anything in my record collection, except perhaps some of the gaps. But if I was going to get embarrassed about something, it would probably be SOD's _Speak English or Die_, with its generic metal riffs, lame attempts at humor, and sexually and ethnically offensive lyrics. It's just *bad*; but unfortunately not in the fun way that most of you had in mind. - --Sourdust np: Galactic Force Band, _Spaced Out Disco_ ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:59:53 -0800 From: Eb Subject: embarrassment at how long this thread has endured >I'm not embarrassed about anything in >my record collection, except perhaps some of the gaps. Now there's another thread: most embarrassing *gaps*. ;) Eb (ummm...I'll go with Bob Marley) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 15:16:34 -0600 From: ultraconformist@ets.cncdsl.com Subject: Re: supertramp and oasis >talking about, and I'll make sure I never express an opinion again because >I'm quite clearly one of those people who isn't entitled to one. Nah, you only get to have one if you agree with James :). More disturbing was the implication that people who dislike Supertramp are fans of Jerry Springer and derive child-raising ideas therefrom, and that this applied to an entire generation of people, presumably everyone younger than Mr. Hadfield. Really shoddy demographics work. Come on, spend a little money and get Gallup next time. Love on ya, Susan P.S. I can't believe I have to explain this to what appears to be a grown man, but here goes: sometimes people will dislike a band that you like. This is not an attack on you personally. It is not an exact measure of the individual's personal merit or lack thereof. It does not mark the decline of a generation or the decline of a society. It is not a defacto indicator of what the individual reads, what they like to see at the movies, how they have sex, how they raise their children, or whether or not they engage in devil-worship. They just don't like a band you like. Cope. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:21:50 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: embarrassment at how long this thread has endured On 1/24/2000 12:59 PM, Eb wrote: >Now there's another thread: most embarrassing *gaps*. ;) I still don't own "Invisible History". Hanging my head in shame, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:27:51 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: another decade list (off the beaten path) On 1/24/2000 12:26 PM, Eb wrote: >CDNow has posted a list of its top five *soundtracks* of the decade: 1. >Pulp Fiction 2. Twin Peaks 3. Until the End of the World 4. Singles 5. >Cinema Paradiso > >Huh. I own #2, #3 and #4 -- Until the End of the World is definitely up >there. Not sure about the other two. Some other candidates come to mind: >Edward Scissorhands, Night on Earth, Natural Born Killers, Backbeat, >Judgment Night, Faraway So Close, Dead Man Walking.... Natural Born Killers kicks ass. I would nominate Neil Young's soundtrack to "Dead Man" (not walking) if it wasn't for that blasted pickup truck driving around in the background!!! Still obsessed, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:37:14 -0800 (PST) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: One person's opinion is another person's.... - --- ultraconformist@ets.cncdsl.com wrote: > P.S. I can't believe I have to explain this to what appears to > be a grown > man, but here goes: sometimes people will dislike a band that > you like. > This is not an attack on you personally. No, but Branscombe's dismissive non-explanation of his opinion was offensive. I think that's what James was responding to. When a person offers an opinion, it behooves them to be able to explain why they hold that opinion. JMBC merely reiterated his remark when asked for an explanation, thus implying that his opinion is an obvious truth to any reasonably hip person. If he couldn't at least give one or two reasons why he finds those bands without merit, he shouldn't have responded to James at all. Vivien __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:41:20 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: ...and that hole in both pairs of black jeans On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, Eb wrote: > Now there's another thread: most embarrassing *gaps*. ;) > > Eb (ummm...I'll go with Bob Marley) beach boys (although i do have a cdr of _smile_ -- heh.) james brown. - -- d. n.p. railroad jerk _one track mind_ - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 13:56:43 -0800 From: Glen Uber Subject: Re: another decade list (off the beaten path) on 24.01.00 13:27, Tom Clark wrote: > On 1/24/2000 12:26 PM, Eb wrote: > >> CDNow has posted a list of its top five *soundtracks* of the decade: 1. >> Pulp Fiction 2. Twin Peaks 3. Until the End of the World 4. Singles 5. >> Cinema Paradiso Did CDNOw specify whether the Twin Peaks soundtrack was for the TV show or for Fire Walk? In any case, I own 1, 2 and 4. However, my favourite soundtrack of the decade is End of the Violence. I've never seen the movie, however, so I can't be swayed by whether the songs work within the context of the film. Cheers! - -g- "If music makes people do things, how come we don't all love each other?" - --Frank Zappa, addressing Tipper Gore at the PMRC hearings, 1986 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Glen Uber uberg@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/~uberg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:07:25 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: another decade list (off the beaten path) >>> CDNow has posted a list of its top five *soundtracks* of the decade: 1. >>> Pulp Fiction 2. Twin Peaks 3. Until the End of the World 4. Singles 5. >>> Cinema Paradiso > >Did CDNOw specify whether the Twin Peaks soundtrack was for the TV show or >for Fire Walk? The TV show. The CD with the big donut on it. :) >However, my favourite soundtrack of the >decade is End of the Violence. I've never seen the movie, however, so I >can't be swayed by whether the songs work within the context of the film. About like Until the End of the World (one of the most disappointing films I've ever seen) -- snippets of the songs are just awkwardly squeezed into the background, and don't add much to the film's impact. I taped a few songs off End of the Violence (Tom Waits, Chesnutt/Stipe, eels) and traded it back. Didn't think it was one of Cooder's better scoring efforts, either. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:15:53 -0500 From: Stephen Buckalew Subject: re: Me & Opus & Justin & the hole >There is nothing wrong with owning the entire Moody Blues collection. >I mean, it's not like I have it all on CD, you know. Just, um, >everything from Days of Future Past to, um, the new one. *Except* for >Octave and Sur la Mer, those are cassette-only. Jeez, surely you >don't think I'm *that* crazy to own Octave on CD....? If I'm remembering correctly, you BEGGED for help from fellow fegs to *STOP* you from going out on a binge and buying their latest....not that there's anything wrong with it.... >And another thing: > >I *like* the Who's Face Dances, I think it's a great album, and is >still one of my favorite Who records. I had the original, with the >cool poster. Hey!!! I never got a POSTER with mine....now I feel ripped off... Please don't take offence Quail! I probably would enjoy this album now, but you must understand, eons ago, when I was but a weee lad with spiked hair and dog collar, the punk community was VERY intolerant of other forms of musical expression.....even though I thought I looked and acted tough in all that spiked leather...I was really nothing but an insecure teenager...and cringed when fellow punkers such as my bandmates would make fun of my Tangerine Dream collection and my "rawk" records...hell...they thought people were wusses for owning U2 or Cars records...Peer pressure you know... Robyn has mentioned in interviews about how intolerant the punk community was at the time...and I look back on those days and laugh at how hypocritical we all were...fighting the "establishment" and what not... Actually, as I grew older and decided to quit the band and dress however the hell I wanted and listed to whatever the hell I wanted to, I watched the same bandmembers constantly "reinvent" themselves into straight-edge skinheads, then into hard-drinking longhaired headbangers who loved muscle cars, and eventually watched them settle into basic pot-smoking hippies Sometimes these days, when I'm playing the fiddle in our old-time folk band at contra-dances ...I think about putting on the dog-collar and getting the mohawk haircut, just for "old-times" sake.... Still love "Rocket to Russia" though, but Ramones were really a fun surf band anyway.... S.B. *************************************************************** "...isn't it good to be lost in the wood..."--Syd Barrett *************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 17:12:48 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: A score of scores If it's up to soundtracks, there's of course two types -- scores and collections. For instance, I agree that Edward Scissorhands is a great soundtrack, a quintessential Danny Elfman work. But you can't rank it with "Pulp Fiction," for instance. They are two different beasties. Um, and then there's musical-based stuff like "The Lion King," which I won't get into. Some of my favorite collection-type soundtracks (alphabetical order): The Crow Dead Man Walking Lost Highway Pulp Fiction Reservoir Dogs Trainspotting Until the End of the World Some of my favorite scores (alphabetical order): Fire Walk with Me, Angelo Badalamenti Henry V, Patrick Doyle Edward Scissorhands, Danny Elfman Last Temptation of Christ, Peter Gabriel Koyaanasqatsi, Philip Glass Interview with the Vampire, Elliot Goldenthal Alien, Jerry Goldsmith Bram Stoker's Dracula, Wojciech Kilar Wings of Desire, Jurgen Kneiper The Devils, Sir Peter Maxwell Davies The Cook, the Thief, his Wife and her Lover, Michael Nyman The Piano, Michael Nyman Alexander Nevsky, Sergei Prokoviev Bladerunner, Vangelis Star Wars, John Williams Akira, Geinoh Yamashirogumi And of course there's all the soundtracks to Kubrick's movies -- he does *great* stuff with classical music. I would also count "Excalibur," but most of that is Orff and Wagner. There are some great composers who occasionally write scores that are better than the movie they are in. Like Glass' score for "Candyman." Or Goldenthal's scores for the last "Batman" movie, and Tan Dun's work on "Fallen." Best score of the year in my opinion? "The Red Violin," by Corigliano. Better than the flawed movie it was in, I think. I am probably missing a bunch of soundtracks that I really dig. And I really like the Doctor Who theme. The earlier one. - --Quail PS: Sometimes when I am really fucking bored, I pick people to score movies that don't exist. Like Robert Fripp and Brian Eno should score "Neuromancer." And Tan Dun will score my Lovecraft epic, "At the Mountains of Madness." Of course, "Ulysses" will be scored by a different composer for each episode. And Danny Elfman gets *all* the Doctor Seuss movies. +---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "I'm not a critic, though I play one on the Internet." -- doug mayo-wells ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:32:00 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: A score of scores Quail testified: Boy, I obviously hit on a pet subject of yours. ;) >If it's up to soundtracks, there's of course two types -- scores and >collections. For instance, I agree that Edward Scissorhands is a >great soundtrack, a quintessential Danny Elfman work. But you can't >rank it with "Pulp Fiction," for instance. They are two different >beasties. To me, music is music. Especially when it's all conceived during the same general era. (I do have a harder time rating classical albums against pop/rock stuff, but I consider that my own shortcoming and not an inherent conceptual stumbling block.) >The Piano, Michael Nyman I really *didn't* like this score much. I'm sure it's pretty on its own (I don't have the CD), but I think the tone was far too contemporary for the film's setting. I didn't buy for a minute that Holly Hunter back in ye olden days would be playing that style of music. Seemed really anachronistic to me, and more like a marketing strategy to make the film more accessible to contemporary audiences. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:38:00 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Request for the CD geeks Now that I can burn my own CDs, I have a question for the ranks of audiophiles on the List: Does anyone know of a good program or MSWord file that replicates Jewel-case sleeves? So I can print them out, cut them to size, and wrap those rascals? - --Quail ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Great Quail, Keeper of the Libyrinth: http://www.libyrinth.com "Countlessness of livestories have netherfallen by this plage, flick as flowflakes, litters from aloft, like a waast wizzard all of whirlworlds. Now are all tombed to the mound, isges to isges, erde from erde . . . (Stoop) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, what curious of signs (please stoop) in this allaphbed! Can you rede (since We and Thou had it out already) its world? . . . Speak to us of Emailia!" --James Joyce, Finnegans Wake ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:08:58 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Request for the CD geeks On Mon, 24 Jan 2000, The Great Quail wrote: > Now that I can burn my own CDs, I have a question for the ranks of > audiophiles on the List: > > Does anyone know of a good program or MSWord file that replicates > Jewel-case sleeves? So I can print them out, cut them to size, and > wrap those rascals? The Oct. 1999 issue of Mac Addict magazine had a very detailed step-by-step guide to doing this in Photoshop (which I believe you use occasionally). They include everything right down to the exact size, in hundredths of an inch, to make each panel. My copy is on loan to progmeister Bayard right now, but I'm sure he can make copies for you. And please, don't capitalize "jewel cases," or people might get the wrong idea! Re: the old Doctor Who theme (Tom Baker era), is it true that Hawkwind did it? I mean, did the actual recording that they played on the show. I've heard rumo[u]rs.... - --Chris "how's that for a fast reply" the Gimpster ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:07:06 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Request for the CD geeks On 1/24/2000 3:38 PM, The Great Quail wrote: >Does anyone know of a good program or MSWord file that replicates >Jewel-case sleeves? So I can print them out, cut them to size, and >wrap those rascals? You should just go buy one of those CD-R labeling deals, like the one at www.labelcd.com - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:32:18 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Cheese Alarm Lyrics Could someone direct me towards the lyrics to Cheese Alarm? thx, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 00:46:16 GMT From: "James Hadfield" Subject: Re: supertramp and oasis > >talking about, and I'll make sure I never express an opinion again >because > >I'm quite clearly one of those people who isn't entitled to one. > >Nah, you only get to have one if you agree with James :). You're entitled to all of the opinions you can muster. But don't expect to advance ones that are blatantly misinformed without rebuttal. It has nothing to do with agreeing with me or not. To declare that Supertramp is without merit is simply wrong, like it or no. Don't care if you appreciate the band, their songs, or whatever. Next we'll have somebody make the claim that the Beatles were "without merit." And if people respond that such a claim is preposterous, will Susan once again save the day with her PC jibberish ("...sometimes people will dislike a band that you like. This is not an attack on you personally. It is not an exact measure of the individual's personal merit or lack thereof.")? >More disturbing was the implication that people who dislike Supertramp are >fans of Jerry Springer and derive child-raising ideas therefrom, and that >this applied to an entire generation of people, presumably everyone younger >than Mr. Hadfield. The attitudes expressed on shows like Springer typically indicate that we've generally degraded in our thinking to the point where nobody's opinion is right or wrong, that we can do as we want to, that they are no consequences to our actions, that nobody can tell us what or how to think, and that we can spew out opinions, however misinformed, and that some so-called politically "correct" "liberal" will spring to the rescue of the errant one, and proceed to character bash (see postscript {how quaint} below) the individual who's made a legitimate and valid argument. >P.S. I can't believe I have to explain this to what appears to be a grown >man, but here goes: sometimes people will dislike a band that you like. >This is not an attack on you personally. It is not an exact measure of the >individual's personal merit or lack thereof. It does not mark the decline >of a generation or the decline of a society. It is not a defacto indicator >of what the individual reads, what they like to see at the movies, how they >have sex, how they raise their children, or whether or not they engage in >devil-worship. (Gawd!) This is total nonsense. I never said any such thing, but I do get very quickly tired of the type of reasoning that was evinced in the respondent's post(s), and shows like Springer are a showcase for how far we've sunk. Which was my point. Do you understand? Does anybody? >They just don't like a band you like. Cope. No, that wasn't "just" it. Read my post over again, and think before responding. This thread is no longer primarily about whether or not Supertramp has "merit," but about the ability to recognize merit when it occurs. Check this excerpt from Ebert's write-up of Bonnie and Clyde, a movie I've heard more than a few argue lacks merit: "How it opened and quickly closed in the autumn of 1967, panned by the critics, receiving only one ecstatic opening-day newspaper review. (Modesty be damned: It was my own, calling it ``a milestone in the history of American movies, a work of truth and brilliance'' and predicting ``years from now it is quite possible that `Bonnie and Clyde' will be seen as the definitive film of the 1960s.'')" (Note well, Susan: I'm not comparing Supertramp to Bonnie and Clyde!) My point is this: Ebert was right, they were wrong, and Bonnie and Clyde continues to hold its own. As does much of Supertramp's oeuvre. Cope. Now unless you want to argue that point without resorting to defammation of character (Note well Susan and Branscombe: remarking upon an individual's erroneous reasoning is not the same thing), drop the thread. Ya on love. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #22 ******************************