From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V9 #3 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, January 5 2000 Volume 09 : Number 003 Today's Subjects: ----------------- CHUD [Christopher Gross ] brief notes on the Grammy noms [Eb ] Re: I'm back [lj lindhurst ] Re: brief notes on the Grammy noms ["Chris!" ] U.S. publication of Cale bio [steve ] Re: jag my memory [fartachu ] Re: "A Star For Bram" in Europe? [fartachu ] Re: brief notes on the Grammy noms [fartachu ] Re: jag my memory [Eb ] Re: I'm back [Joel Mullins ] Top Ten Hit [Tony.Blackman@sita.int] Heavy, man. [Vivien Lyon ] Re: Heavy, man. [Christopher Gross ] Re: Heavy, man. [Katherine Rossner ] Re: Heavy, man. [Vivien Lyon ] Re: Heavy, man. [Christopher Gross ] Re: Heavy, man. [dmw ] Re: Heavy, man. [Christopher Gross ] Re: Heavy, man. [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:06:00 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: CHUD Happy New Year, everyone! (Now that we can no longer use "The Year 2000" as a symbol of the future, what will replace it? I propose "The Year Chris Gets His Desk Cleared Off.") On Tue, 4 Jan 2000, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: > Too bad A Chud Convention only made one album, too, come to think of > it. Any of you Skinny Puppy fans ever hear that one? I bought my > copy from Woody "Dr. Death" Dumas, of C'est La Mort records, back in > the day. Wonder what it's worth now? Ah, good thing I'm not a weenie completist, so I won't get furiously envious of you! I haven't heard A Chud Convention, but I've heard of it, if only in the Skinny Puppy FAQ ( and follow the links): "What is A Chud Convention? "A Chud Convention was a one-off project that involved SP (without Dwayne) and a;GRUMH. It basically involved the two bands screwing around in the studio while "coming down off a weird high". A 12" of these sessions was released, called Sorrow, containing two tracks, 'Patient Sorrow' and 'Silent Sorrow'. Puppy, and possibly a;GRUMH as well, didn't want to release this due to its oddball nature and questionable sound quality, so the release was done by either a;GRUMH or a third party." CHUD, of course, was the lifelike stuffed dog (named after the horror movie) used in Skinny Puppy's stage show on the Cleanse Fold and Manipulate and VIVIsectVI tours. CHUD had a couple of adventures on the latter tour. To quote the FAQ again: "I heard they got arrested in '88, why? "A person in the audience during a Cincinnati show on the VIVIsectVI tour mistakenly thought that the stuffed dog CHUD, which Ogre ripped apart on stage in order to show the horrors of vivisection, was a real animal and called the police. After showing up backstage and finding that CHUD indeed was not real, they basically tried to find a reason to be there and after some harsh words were exchanged Ogre, cEvin, and their tour manager spent the night in jail on disorderly conduct charges. Dwayne, who was actually rolling a joint as the cops came in, managed to escape due to his unique power of invisibility. "I heard about CHUD getting stolen, what happened? "After the show in Detroit, some girl managed to grab CHUD as a souvenir of the show and left it in the back of her unlocked car after she got home. The band followed her around the city. Ogre not only recovered CHUD but also entered the girl's house and yelled at her parents." A brief video clip of CHUD off stage and hanging out with a real dog can be seen in the multimedia section of Brap disc 2. Meanwhile, I believe Bill Spooner from the Tubes had a solo album called First Chud. Trivially, Chris np: Tim Keegan and the Homer Lounge, Long Distance Information ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 17:10:46 -0800 From: Eb Subject: brief notes on the Grammy noms http://grammy.com/nominees (or maybe it was "nominee" with no "s"...I forget). Not much to root for, I'm afraid. I don't think anyone's going to be crowing about the "new and improved" Grammys *this* year.... Eb Backstreet Boys, Cher, Ricky Martin, Santana and TLC for Record of the Year? YAWWWN. Backstreet Boys, Dixie Chicks, Diana Krall, Santana, TLC for Album of the Year? YAWWWN again. Susan Tedeschi for New Artist??? Sheesh. Interesting...Tedeschi, Krall. Maybe a new trend in voting. Andrea Bocelli for Male Pop Vocal?? Bizarre. Smash Mouth for Best Group Pop Vocal? Jeez...yeah, some pipes that guy has. :P *Two* Santana nominations under Pop Collaboration Vocal? Ugh. Dance Recording: Fatboy Slim up against Donna Summer, Jennifer Lopez, Cher and Gloria Estefan. Hilarious. Male Rock Vocal: Tom Waits! Ha! I wonder why there are SIX nominations for Best Hard Rock Performance? Moby nominated for Best Rock Instrumental...I think that's about the hippest nomination I see here. ToRi AMoS' new album being nominated for Best Alternative Album is heinous for so *many* reasons. Mule Variations nominated for Best Contemporary Folk Album? Wacky! Seems like it should be Contemporary *Blues*, if anything. "Footloose" is a Broadway show now? As in Kevin Bacon's "Footloose"?? WOW!!! Owsley nominated for Best Engineered Non-Classical Album? Never would've guessed!! But can it beat Toto? Eb, wishing Owsley had been nominated for Best New Artist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:21:38 -0500 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: I'm back Joel writes: >Shane, I'm not sure this is the best music buying >philosophy. Hell, I bet I'm the only one here who >loves Shaun Cassidy's Born Late. WRONG WRONG WRONG!! *VERY* WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!! (happy new year) lj * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * LJ Lindhurst White Rabbit Graphic Design http://www.w-rabbit.com NYC ljl@w-rabbit.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:45:14 -0800 From: "Chris!" Subject: Re: brief notes on the Grammy noms Eb wrote: > > Mule Variations nominated for Best Contemporary Folk Album? Wacky! Seems > like it should be Contemporary *Blues*, if anything. > I would think that it would have to be real "bloooz" to be in the Blues category, otherwise it gets dumped in the Folk loop. .chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:07:04 -0600 From: steve Subject: U.S. publication of Cale bio Some fegs might be interested in "What's Welsh For Zen" by Cale and Bockris. The official pub date is February, but sometimes these things do come out a bit early. - - Steve _______________ We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! - Andy Partridge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:39:49 -0500 From: fartachu Subject: Re: jag my memory when we last left our heroes, Eb exclaimed: >What were the top reissues of 1999? I need to recall, for another poll. >Cocteau Twins/BBC Sessions does this qualify as a reissue? the peel sessions were not previously available except as the studio versions. or is that close enough? woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:37:46 -0500 From: fartachu Subject: Re: "A Star For Bram" in Europe? when we last left our heroes, Sebastian Hagedorn exclaimed: >So where can European Fegs get "A Star For Bram"? once it's available, consult the european page of the museum's gift shop: woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2000 22:32:58 -0500 From: fartachu Subject: Re: brief notes on the Grammy noms when we last left our heroes, Eb exclaimed: >ToRi AMoS' new album being nominated for Best Alternative Album is heinous >for so *many* reasons. i'd have to agree, but i'll settle for two reasons: it's neither "best" nor "alternative". why aren't the grammys irrelevant yet? on a related topic, i'm still collecting top ten lists for 1999 and the 90s. keep 'em coming. let's set a nominal deadline for the end of january (hey, there are a lot of 1999 records that i probably won't hear until at least then!) and i'll post results sometime after that. woj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:15:37 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: jag my memory Woj responded to another mention of a female artist: >>What were the top reissues of 1999? I need to recall, for another poll. > >>Cocteau Twins/BBC Sessions > >does this qualify as a reissue? the peel sessions were not previously >available except as the studio versions. or is that close enough? Jeez, ok, ok...all you hair-splitters! I wasn't necessarily asking only for "reissues." I should've asked for something more general like "archival releases," instead. Since my original post, it occurred to me that I temporarily forgot about all the cool reissues which the resurrected Buddha put out this year.... Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 20:52:23 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: I'm back - --- lj lindhurst wrote: > Joel writes: > >Shane, I'm not sure this is the best music buying > >philosophy. Hell, I bet I'm the only one here who > >loves Shaun Cassidy's Born Late. > > WRONG WRONG WRONG!! *VERY* WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!! YOu mean I'm not the only one? Wow. Joel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 14:16:24 +0000 From: Tony.Blackman@sita.int Subject: Top Ten Hit from: Top 10's Man or Astro-man?, Birdstuff 9. The Soft Boys, Underwater Moonlight: Robyn Hitchcock's seemingly psychedelic, nonsensical non sequitors and wordplay is astonishing, especially as it flew in the face of the fashion-driven punk rock of late '70s London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 08:49:53 -0800 (PST) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: Heavy, man. Since the list is so slow, and I have nothing of substance to add to the non-fray, I thought I'd pass on this entertaining and edifying story. I hope it's true. Cement Cuddlers An "Anti-shopping" Trip with the Los Angeles Cacophony Society Text: Reverend Al I had been thinking for a long time about making cement filled teddy bears. I wasn't exactly sure why. At first it was just a perceptual curiosity I wanted to experience, and I wanted others to experience. I liked the idea of someone being handed what appeared to be a fluffy stuffed animal, only to have it go tearing through your relaxed fingers like a lead meteor. The Christmas shopping season seemed an ideal time to get them on the shelves of Los Angeles toy stores, so late in November, members of the Los Angeles Cacophony Society gathered in my backyard to gut several dozen plush toys and replace their innards with Portland's finest. We called them, "Cement Cuddlers". Each bear wore a full-color laminated label identifying it as such complete with bar code from another toy. Inside the folded tag was the text: "Unfortunate Child, do not mistake me for living thing, nor seek in me the warmth denied you by your parents. For beneath my plush surface lies a hardness as impervious and unforgiving as this World's own indifference to your mortal struggle. Hold on to me when you are sad, and I will weigh you down, but bear this weight throughout your years, and it will strengthen your limbs and harden your will so that one day no man dare oppose you." The target was easy to select. Not far away was a large not-to-be-named toystore, the biggest and newest of the chain in Southern California, a massive thing like the newly christened Titanic just begging for its iceberg. By 10:30, around a dozen Cacophonists had slipped in managing to place several bears on the shelves without arousing suspicion. Not content to just leave them there we appointed Cacophonist Todd to help direct the management's attention to our prank. At 10:35 Todd entered, located a Cuddler, and brought it to the register, informing the cashier he couldn't find the price. Predictably, as he placed the innocent looking toy in those unwary hands, it went crashing to the floor like a particularly heavy bowling ball. After this, it just got worse. Todd began to demand a speedier price check, insisting that he had only minutes to complete this transaction before it would be too late to bring the bear to his nephew who was, as he repeated many times for our benefit, "in the hospital with a skin rash." This element of his story, however, did not appear to provoke the suspicion of the clerk, who apparently had no difficulty in imagining her customer entering the children's ward not long before 11 PM to dump a lump of fur-covered construction material in the lap of an ailing youngster. However, as Todd's volume increased, backups arrived. One of the more astute clerks commented that she had never seen this toy before and wished to know what shelf it had come from. Indignantly Todd led them to the appropriate place. A half dozen clerks, and several customers gathered round in bewilderment, passing the four bears amongst themselves and shaking their heads. I eventually moved into earshot, and heard one woman reading the tag aloud. "That's really deep!" she exclaimed. I could no longer resist. I moved in to express curiosity about this toy. "Oh! That's a cute bear," I remarked as I reached for a Cuddler. Without warning, it was placed in my hands, which naturally were prepared to be unprepared for its weight. Another thunderous crash! Now I was outraged! "Look here!" I said. "The labels say, for ages 2-10! How could "Nameless Toystore Chain" sell such a dangerous toy to 2-year-olds!" Eventually I was calmed and began contemplating buying one for an older nephew. Cacophonist Frank became interested in buying one too. We all went to the register. Thanks to the fully functional bar code, the farce continued. However, the bar code used was from another toy, and so the computer identified the toy as: Alien Face Hugger ­ $1.99. More panic and confusion. The manager was called. In the chaos, the bears are handed back and forth a few times more giving Todd one more opportunity to let one fall, this time "on his foot" (about 4 inches from his toes). He begins to wail and pulls off his shoe and sock. The clerks are incredulous. "Would you say he dropped that on his foot?" one says to me. "I don't want to get involved," I say, secretly gesturing that Todd seems crazy. The manager arrives, and he is young and sour-looking. Easily a control freak. We feel he is our divinely ordained victim. They explain the difficulty with the scans, but he seems to pay little attention to the computer. Instead his eyes keep darting to Todd as he leaps around on one foot howling about the lethal bears to other customers. "Come with me, sir. We'll see what we can do for you," he snaps, dragging Todd off to his little manager pen. Frank and I continue as good cops to Todd's bad cop routine, but continue to hover at the register insisting on the purchase. We discuss with the clerks how troubled Todd seems and reread the label. "This is weird," one clerk finally realizes, "a Teddy Bear literally filled with cement." I suggest it might be a doorstop for children's bedrooms. Then a ray of light descends on Nameless Toystore. "It's like a joke someone's playing or something," says one of our blue-vested assistants. "You mean," asks Frank, with wonderfully stylized naiveté, "like someone made them themselves? Maybe just this weekend? Took out the stuffing and replaced it with cement?" "Or maybe that crazy guy did," says the clerk. "No, no. Can't be," I say. "Why would he insist on buying from you something he made himself. That's illogical!" Suddenly we hear Todd's voice booming again from the front of the store. They have emerged from the manager pen. “This will mean so much to Bobby. God Bless you!" And he leaves with the bear in bag. $1.99! Lucky bastard! Manager-man hurries to the counter with his panicky stick-up-the-ass gait, one ear pressed to a cellular, doubtlessly consulting the Nameless Toystore overlords. We mob him, insisting to know the price arrived at. "They're not for sale." We are incredulous, indignant. "This item is discontinued." He bites off the word and rushes to the shelves to haul the Cuddlers away. We continue to needle him as he gathers the bears. Suddenly, he swings around holding the furry blocks of cement as if he might do some harm. Perspiration has appeared on his forehead. "Look!" he sputters, "I don't know how these things got on the shelves! They DON'T track correctly on the computer. I've never seen them before. I have NO explanation. It's like someone's playing a joke on MY STORE!" It's in that word "my". You can tell. He's gotten that look like he's just seen the first crack in the brand new ceiling. We understand that if that crack widens by even a hairline, he's going to see through it. He already suspects Todd. He is probably 90 seconds from realizing that we're all part of it. And so we decide to take advantage of our time. "Could you at least tell us the manufacturer so maybe we could order the toy?" He whips the label over, and reads, Brutal Truth Toys. This is a good time to leave. There's still a half hour before midnight, so we take advantage of the energy we've gathered to make a few prank phone calls. I call a rival Nameless Toystore asking for Cement Cuddlers. I'm put on hold and another clerk picks up the phone and claims to have actually pulled up the info on my Cement Cuddlers on the computer. He tells me I can get a raincheck. Sadly, when I ask for the stock number, he suddenly loses the record that he "just had, just a minute ago". After going through three or four baffled and fairly easy to baffle clerks, I finally get to the manager. I am slightly indignant at the delays and feigned ignorance of a product I JUST PURCHASED THAT VERY NIGHT at their rival, the new Burbank store, we'd just invaded. The manager explains that this new store carries certain promotional items not available to the other stores because it is the newest and largest. I detect a note of envy in his voice, and soften my approach. I become confidential and ask if the new store hired away a lot of good workers. "You know," I tell him, "I know it's big and everything, but it's so new... I mean, they didn't quite seem to have it all together yet." He agrees. He's heard rumors to this effect. "All the employees seemed, I don't know... Nervous somehow. It's like the store's too big for them to handle. I get a nervous feeling when I go in there." He knows what I mean. "I think it's that manager, maybe. He seemed so tense and kinda angry somehow. He doesn't give me a good feeling. He seems a little odd. Have you heard anything like this?" He's heard some funny things about this upstart. "Yeah. Odd manager. Odd store. Come to think of it this whole cement teddy bear thing is pretty odd. Maybe this was just a special thing he wanted to order. Maybe they were his idea." He agrees, but he won't call the other store to see if they still have them in stock there. So I tell him I'll check back later. And I will. It was a good night, and we still have 18 more bears to distribute. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 12:17:35 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Heavy, man. BUTTHEAD: "Huh, huh. Cool story, dude. Tormenting people is, like, awesome. Huh, huh. Huh, huh. Oh, and it's a blow against against consumerism or something. Huh, huh." BEAVIS: "Yeah, and like, I knew these guys, like, they went to this store, and like, they got the manager's name, and they called up his mother, and, like, they said they were the police, and they were like, 'Sorry, ma'am, but your son just got run over by a bus.'" BEAVIS and BUTTHEAD: "Huh, huh. Huh, huh." BEAVIS: "Fire! Fire!" - --Chris np: Pavement, Slanted & Enchanted ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 12:34:42 -0500 From: Katherine Rossner Subject: Re: Heavy, man. Oh, come on. It's nothing at all like saying "your son got run over by a bus": the content carries minimal emotional upset even if you take the thing seriously. Besides, any of the store workers with intelligence/sense of humor should have been able to read the label and catch the joke, and not take it seriously at all. (All right, I'll concede that maintaining one's perspective and sense of humor isn't easy when you're working Christmas rush in a toy store. On the other hand, it might be a good survival strategy. I think if I'd been one of the salespeople, the incident would be exactly what I needed to help put up with that manager.) This is, of course, assuming that the incident really happened...it does sound a little too much like a UL, doesn't it? But the Barbie/GI Joe incident was real... Katherine At 12:17 PM 1/5/00 -0500, Christopher Gross wrote: > >BUTTHEAD: "Huh, huh. Cool story, dude. Tormenting people is, like, >awesome. Huh, huh. Huh, huh. Oh, and it's a blow against against >consumerism or something. Huh, huh." > >BEAVIS: "Yeah, and like, I knew these guys, like, they went to this store, >and like, they got the manager's name, and they called up his mother, >and, like, they said they were the police, and they were like, 'Sorry, >ma'am, but your son just got run over by a bus.'" > >BEAVIS and BUTTHEAD: "Huh, huh. Huh, huh." > >BEAVIS: "Fire! Fire!" > > >--Chris > >np: Pavement, Slanted & Enchanted >______________________________________________________________________ >Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. >chrisg@gwu.edu > > - -- Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche is chaunge Withinne a thousand yere, and wordes tho That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge Us thinketh hem, and yit they spake hem so. - Chaucer, "Troilus and Criseyde" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:49:49 -0800 (PST) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: Re: Heavy, man. - --- Christopher Gross wrote: > > BUTTHEAD: "Huh, huh. Cool story, dude. Tormenting people is, > like, > awesome. Huh, huh. Huh, huh. Oh, and it's a blow against > against > consumerism or something. Huh, huh." Oh dear. Yes, Chris, you're right. The only reason I like that story is because I dig it when people mindlessly torment other people for no reason. You know, the endless stream of mind-numbing crap that toystores provide kids with not only gets the little assholes out of their parents' way and involved in a predigested fantasy, but the materialiasm they promote will last with the children their whole lives. Plus, their imaginations will be permanently neutered and they'll be dependent on the entertainment culture as adults, which you know is good for the economy. Yes, the modern toystore is indeed a bastion of the community. Shame on me for finding a filthy, evil prank perpetrated on such a noble industry amusing. Vivien __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:00:12 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Heavy, man. On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Katherine Rossner wrote: > Oh, come on. It's nothing at all like saying "your son got run over by a > bus": Of course not; I was exaggerating. For that matter, putting the Cacaphonists (or whatever they were called) on the same level as Beavis and Butthead was also an exaggeration. Probably. > the content carries minimal emotional upset even if you take the > thing seriously. True. But I'd say it's more of a quantitative than a qualitative difference. If you're going to make trouble for someone, why not go whole hog? If you get pleasure out of upsetting others, why stop at causing just a *little* upset? And if you're going to select your victims solely on the basis of their jobs, why not choose some of them on the basis of their children's jobs instead? - --Chris "store managers are all loathsome vermin fit only for extermination" the Grosster ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:06:25 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: Heavy, man. On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Katherine Rossner wrote: > This is, of course, assuming that the incident really happened...it does > sound a little too much like a UL, doesn't it? But the Barbie/GI Joe > incident was real... i'd already been informed of it by, er, another source, one i'm inclined to credit. i think it's for real. - -- d. n.p. bob pollard/doug gillard _speak kindly of your volunteer fire department_ - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 13:22:50 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Heavy, man. On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Vivien Lyon wrote: > Oh dear. Yes, Chris, you're right. The only reason I like that > story is because I dig it when people mindlessly torment other > people for no reason. You know, the endless stream of > mind-numbing crap that toystores provide kids with not only gets > the little assholes out of their parents' way and involved in a > predigested fantasy, but the materialiasm they promote will last > with the children their whole lives. [snip] Hmph! Compete with me in sarcasm, will ye? Well, all I can say is, you're right -- I found the Cacaphonists' prank annoying solely because I love consumerism and think Toys 'R' Us is the greatest thing to happen to children since the infant mortality rate dipped below 20%. Lord knows I have no sympathy for store managers, who after all are not real people with feelings; nor for store clerks, who ARE people with feelings but who deserve to be given a hard time as some minimal punishment for the evils of modern society, for which they are individually and collectively responsible. Nor was any of my annoyance caused by the sheer arrogance displayed by the Cacaphonists (and anyway, arrogance, like cruelty, is only a vice when displayed by those in power; in the hands of noble subversives it becomes a virtue). And I certainly don't deny that such pranks clearly cause progressive paradigm shifts among society as a whole, nor do I deny the simple logic of taking revenge on a toy store. Finally, you are completely correct to think that I intended to mock you, Vivien, and not the Cacaphonists themselves. There! I think I've raised the bar for all of us now. - --Captain Sarcastic ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 10:24:09 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Heavy, man. On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Christopher Gross wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Katherine Rossner wrote: > > the content carries minimal emotional upset even if you take the > > thing seriously. > True. But I'd say it's more of a quantitative than a qualitative > difference. If you're going to make trouble for someone, why not go > whole hog? Because when you go whole hog, the person gets so upset as to become reactionary and there is no change. The teaching emotion is pleasure and pain, not pain alone. > If you get pleasure out of upsetting others, why stop at causing > just a *little* upset? The pleasure is not in merely upsetting others, but in instructing others. Change beyond the superficial is always painful. Destroying a person's life makes them a martyr and enforces their beliefs. Destroying a person's worldview is like fossilization; you chip away a bit and let it get filled in with something new. Wholesale destruction is counterproductive. Unless it's the very last step. > And if you're going to select your victims solely on the basis of > their jobs, why not choose some of them on the basis of their > children's jobs instead? The people who work in the store were not the "victims". The spectators were the intended target. On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, dmw wrote: > On Wed, 5 Jan 2000, Katherine Rossner wrote: > > This is, of course, assuming that the incident really happened...it does > > sound a little too much like a UL, doesn't it? But the Barbie/GI Joe > > incident was real... > i'd already been informed of it by, er, another source, one i'm inclined > to credit. i think it's for real. Check out the archives of the LA Cacophony Society or the Portland Cacophony Society at http://la.cacophony.org/ and http://portland.cacophony.org/ respectively. The purpose wasn't to hurt the manager or even comment on consumerism. It was simply an exercise in the unexpected. Anything to make people think. J. - -- ______________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ______________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V9 #3 *****************************