From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #438 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, November 23 1999 Volume 08 : Number 438 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Now you has jazz [MARKEEFE@aol.com] RE: Now you has jazz ["Bachman, Michael" ] RE: cherub rock ["Bachman, Michael" ] Philosophers' Stone [Fpaux@aol.com] Bip Bop (Dog & Onion) ["Bradley Wood" ] Re: cherub rock [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: cherub rock [MARKEEFE@aol.com] eb is the one to make a better day so let's start givin' [Michael Wolfe <] Shaggs [Tom Clark ] Eb's least/Robyn's most favorite rapper ["The Best of Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: Eb's least/Robyn's most favorite rapper [Bayard ] Robyn in SF, nickname proliferation, FegSYDNEY'S BIRTHDAY IS TOMORROW! [M] Reap [James Dignan ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #436 [James Dignan ] Re: Robyn in SF, nickname proliferation, FegSYDNEY'S BIRTHDAY IS TOMORROW! ["Mr. Kidkill" Subject: RE: Now you has jazz Susan, What do you think of Nanaimo, B.C. Canada's finest, Diana Krall? I live in Michigan and we get CBC Radio, Ross Porter's Jazz show, Afterhours, comes on at 10:00 PM and I learned a lot about jazz from him. I also like June Christy a lot. Michael - -----Original Message----- From: ultraconformist@ets.cncdsl.com [mailto:ultraconformist@ets.cncdsl.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 2:21 PM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Re: Now you has jazz You want my honest opinion, Terry, you should probably try to find a book. There's more to learn than one can say in an email like this :). >On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Terrence M Marks wrote: >> I've recently become moderately interested in the world of jazz music. >> Unfortunately, I don't know from jazz subgenres. If I'm talking about >> "jazz like John Coltrane", Are you talking about 'Ascension" or "Blue Train"? ;) >> there that I can call things? Lots. Mr. Godwin: >The bloke Steve Day who gave the course was heavily into 'Free Jazz', >which is Ornette Coleman and the like - minimal harmonic content. Some general terms that might help young Terrence are "straight ahead" and "outside". This music is outside. It's a less specific term than "free", which basically means, oh, I dunno, "amelodic". "Outside" is anything of an avant-garde or experimental kind. >'Bebop' is Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie and John Coltrane. This is straight ahead. That's the general catch-all that corresponds to "outside". It means anything that's not particularly experimental or out-there, I guess. These are difficult to explain. You kinda know when you hear them. And "bebop" does fit some early Coltrane, but if Terry picks up "Ascension" expecting bebop he will be confused. Coltrane went through a lot of changes. >'Mainstream' is Duke Ellington and related (Lester Young etc.). This I've never heard in my 8 years of being a jazz DJ. I've heard the word mainstream, to be sure, but not applied like that. This may present a communication hazard when speaking with UK jazzers :). Usually Duke Ellington, Basie, &c. are called by the literal term, "big-band". These bands are often grouped as "sweet" or "hot". Generally speaking, white bands played "sweet" and black bands played "hot", although it doesn't break down quite that neatly in all cases (the Charlie Barnet Orchestra was a "hot" band). This is a stylistic designation, mostly, and not a racial codeword, although there are people who use it that way. I'm running into trouble here, as you can see, because these things are really difficult to put into words, and very easy to illustrate by just playing some music. Anyway, the difference between "sweet" and "hot" is quite easily understood by playing Glenn Miller and then playing Basie. Soloists of the period right before bebop, like Lester Young, usually are referred to as "swing". >Also called "swing". OK, so commmunication may not be as difficult as I thought :). >'Dixieland' is I suspect what UK jazzers would call 'Trad jazz' - Louis >Armstrong, Jack Teagarden, Sidney Bechet, Bix Biederbecke. True, that's a difference. I've heard this called "early jazz" as well. >'Cool jazz' is Kenny Burrell, Stan Getz etc, and merges into 'Bossa Nova'. Why is this bothering me? OK, I think we refer to this differently here too. First off, "cool" had two schools, "west coast" and "east coast". Speaking generally again, the east coast stuff was more, hrm, driving, while the west coast stuff is more gentle. Much easier, again, if you can hear some examples. Take a Johnny Griffin and listen back to back with a Chet Baker, you hear the difference. The east coast cool stuff is often also referred to as "hard bop". Burrell, Getz, et al., are also "cool", but it's a bit later thing than what I'm talking about, which is maybe one step from bop or kind of concurrent. Then you also have "post-bop", which is the music that eventually evolves into "free", basically. It's a half-step. This would be some Wayne Shorter, Miles Davis in the era of "ESP" or so, and like that. >Django Reinhardt is more or less out on his own - some people call him >'Gypsy jazz'. I've heard him called "cafe jazz" also. Generally there isn't really a word for thim tho, he and his buddy Stephane are just kinda there :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:16:09 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: cherub rock Jason: >they disappeared up into The Loft never to be seen again. They probably left by the secret exit. You slide down a pole, plunge face-first down a long winding tube and pop out in front of Tower Records, up on Sunset Boulevard. I've tried this route a couple of times, but I'm not sure I'd do it again because it chafes something awful. >I told Eddie something very similar Friday night. I just didn't really see >the muppet thing at all. If anything, Kimberly reminded me more of Dana >Carvey's "Garth." I kept picturing Rew as one of the background characters in Paul McCartney's "Coming Up" video. Don't ask me why. Michael: >But, if you don't have Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue," then you should >just go out and get that. Probably my favorite jazz album. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:25:58 -0500 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: cherub rock Eb, I got Kind of Blue and Sketches of Spain by Miles. Birth of Cool is supposed to be pretty good as well, right? I don't have that or Bitch's Brew. Michael - -----Original Message----- From: Eb [mailto:gondola@deltanet.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 1999 3:16 PM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Re: cherub rock Jason: >they disappeared up into The Loft never to be seen again. They probably left by the secret exit. You slide down a pole, plunge face-first down a long winding tube and pop out in front of Tower Records, up on Sunset Boulevard. I've tried this route a couple of times, but I'm not sure I'd do it again because it chafes something awful. >I told Eddie something very similar Friday night. I just didn't really see >the muppet thing at all. If anything, Kimberly reminded me more of Dana >Carvey's "Garth." I kept picturing Rew as one of the background characters in Paul McCartney's "Coming Up" video. Don't ask me why. Michael: >But, if you don't have Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue," then you should >just go out and get that. Probably my favorite jazz album. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:05:47 EST From: Fpaux@aol.com Subject: Philosophers' Stone Help!!! Could some kind feg please send me the lyrics. Or at least the date they were posted? Without help I could very well spend the entire night going through the archives, procrastination being one of my better qualities, but seeing as I have a Logic exam tomorrow, it wouldn't be advisable (Logic is a Philosophy credit) And seeing as I've just spent a good portion of the afternoon pouring over a fairy tale called The Philosophers' Stone, one of the main characters being an Egyptian, I think I've spent far too much time in a fegfog today. Thanks!!! Carissa ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:48:31 PST From: "Bradley Wood" Subject: Bip Bop (Dog & Onion) All through the SF show, Robyn kept stepping on his guitar cables, often resulting in the acoustic pickup being pulled out. This lead to a running joke about "reinsertion" (Jesus was ressurected, redeemed, etc., but he was never reinserted.) When he did the last song of the first encore, he stepped on the cord to his guitar, switched to Tim's guitar and had similar problems. So he picked up his harmonica and told the band he'd go it alone (w/o guitar). So rather than do a song, he when into one of his stories about a dog going through a door, running into its otherself, its shadow turning into a cat, an evil onion a bottle of Aqua Velva (he thought it was Aqua Velva, he eye sight is getting worse and he couldn't read the label). Whenever he needed a sound effect, he would point to someone in the band and they would provide a little rift. Incorporated into the story was some improv numbers including "Pouring Through the Encyclopedia", a jazz/blues number "Bip Bop", a short solo by everyone in the band (including Tim on shakers) and a great Jimmy Stewart impersonation. All lasting for about 12 minutes. One other note about the show that I've never seen at a show before, when Robyn came back for a second encore, more of the audience responded with a massive "Thank You." As my friend who saw/heard Robyn for the first time said, "What a polite audience!" Brad ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:48:47 EST From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: cherub rock In a message dated 11/23/99 12:18:39 PM Pacific Standard Time, gondola@deltanet.com writes: << >But, if you don't have Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue," then you should >just go out and get that. Probably my favorite jazz album. >> Probably mine, too. It seems awfully pedestrian to say so, but it's just so damn good! Still, it's almost like having Vivaldi's "Four Seasons" or "Sgt. Pepper's" at the top of your classical and rock lists (ya know, respectively) . . . which, btw, I don't . . . although the Vivaldi is probably pretty high up there. This seems dangerously close to the beginning of some sort of list-generating-oriented topic -- the kind which one might compile near the end of some time period deemed significant by the media and the unwashed masses. But I'm above such things, so you won't get any "best of different genres, end of the millennium" post from me. Oh, no! No way, no how. - ------Michael K., currently pondering: "Hmmm, is 'The Patsy Cline Story' higher or lower than Johnny Cash's 'Sun Years' on my all-time Top 5 of the Millennium country list?" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:52:44 EST From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: cherub rock In a message dated 11/23/99 12:29:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, Michael.Bachman@fanucrobotics.com writes: << I got Kind of Blue and Sketches of Spain by Miles. Birth of Cool is supposed to be pretty good as well, right? I don't have that or Bitch's Brew. >> You asked Eb specifically, but you wrote the whole list, so I'll just butt in. Both are great albums, but in totally different ways . . . different from each other and different from those Miles albums you already have. "Birth of the Cool" is sort of like sophisticated big band music (well, it's a medium-sized band) and came out around 1949 (I think), whereas "Bitches Brew" is the major breakthrough fusion album of some 20 years later with electric guitars and keyboards and all that. I'd totally recommend both! - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 20:26:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: eb is the one to make a better day so let's start givin' Regarding the discussion of Robyn & Kimberley's conversation before Philosopher's Stone during the Portland gig, I was listening to my recording, and it's there! You need to turn up the volume a bit, but Jeme's fairly accurately reported what transpired. Neat! On a completely different note, Eddie, bookmark this site: <> I can't tell if this guy's for real or not, but either way, he's fucking brilliant. - -Michael Wolfe ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:20:49 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Shaggs The unofficial Shaggs web site: http://www.cgocable.net/~focus23/shaggs/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 14:38:28 -0800 From: "The Best of Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Eb's least/Robyn's most favorite rapper And here I thought the bee-guy was just a cartoon character: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/19991123/re/crime_rapper_4.html - --The Universe is made of Jason "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 17:49:57 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Eb's least/Robyn's most favorite rapper my favorite part: "James Lane, 20... was captured on Monday after allegedly holding up a grocery story." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 15:24:39 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Robyn in SF, nickname proliferation, FegSYDNEY'S BIRTHDAY IS TOMORROW! Well, it's not much of a traveloddgue, but here it is.... I headed up the coast in the afternoon from Santa Cruz. I was lucky to sit behind numerous 42-ers on the 55mph highway. Passing on the right is just not my thing. Someday Eddie, my hero, will teach me how to drive the way he does and I will teach him how to make himself laugh without employing naked pictures of Madeline Albright. My car antenna is broke, so I couldn't hear KUSF until I got into SF proper. It was lovely to hear Mr. Hitchcock's charming voice and his great spirits over the radio while I crept through 19th avenue traffic toward Golden Gate Park, whose gate is neither golden, nor is it near the bridge, but I'm happy to allow the san f'riscan poetic license required here. I went to the tea garden, which now pales slightly to the experience of the one in Portland, where they hire trained midgets to make sure each blade of grass leans westward, lest the dragons of Feng Shui get confused and decide to kick some irresponsible Banzai gardener's ass and force his family into bad luck slavery form many forward generations and that's before I even mention the army of fungus-tenders. But I seem to be getting hopelessly derailed from my tremendously linear thought patterns. I couldn't call Jeme's pager from inside, since the payphone wouldn't receive calls. I had to step outside and call him. I waited for a while, like ten minutes. I didn't hear from him, so I went in and walked around for a while. Then I had tea and "cookies." You have to understand that to me there are few things more beautiful than a Japanese garden in the rain. One of those things is having people with whom to share the experience. You should also understand that the usual moisture of the town vs. stale cookies makes them soggy and taste and feel much like plastic sushi. I have unfolded the softened fortune cookies in that place before, and might have been able this time if I had really put my mind to it. The tea was better than I had remembered. All in all, this was a great time to be had by myself. I waited for a while and then decided to drive toward el downo towno as we say en aesphyxiospaniolo. I made a couple of mistakes with streets (O'Farrell is broken into bits and the quaint one-way-and-you-can't- ever-turn-so-fuck-you orientatins) then I reached the area of the Great American Music Hall and attempted to park and go around the block and stuff overandover again. Then I pulled into a parking garage. I strolled through, um, not the best neighborhood with some guy shouting at me and picked up los tiquetos de tomas clarko and went off to find some Castle in Edinburgh. Well, actually it was only one street over. I went inside and looked at the two bunchings of people. They didn't seem too very feggy, so I sat down at a table and removed my coat and jacket to reveal a Moss Elyxir shirt. Seconds later, Jeme (Goddamit I am _not_ crabby) Brelin and his all nude flying rutebaga circus arrived. Okay, well, technically it wasn't nude, flying, or a circus. No rutebagas either? I am just totally slipping. Sorry. But Vivien (I'm not actually huge breasted, but I utilizing nerf technology, I used to play a Nurse Diesel with major league yabbos in the theatre) Lyon, Aaron (what the hell is this thing with all the a's and guys named Aaron) Lowe and Darcy (whose last name I don't know and I don't know her well enough to give her even this amusing nickname, but she seemed very nice) showed up and we put benches and stuff around so we could sit together at a table. A bunch more feggy persons arrived including such stand-outs as Glen (Gimme the Oakland Raiders with John Elway and I can move the earth) Uber, Carol (I am not Cartman's moms voice, since I'm alive and all that and that ratbastard Mark doesn't even know my last name, geeze), Eddie (I like to say fucking a lot) Tews, Jason (I really look like I should have Nick's accent- okay, maybe more of an eastender one and I know how to play stick and I know your brother Vance but I know you know him too, Mark, so I guess that isn't really something about which to brag) Thornton, Chris (I'm much taller than you and could squash you like a bug, so you'd better think up a good nick name for me and while you're at it, when are you going to write some new material and record covers by the screaming blue messiahs?) Frantz, Dot Chris (I put the dot in dot chris Dot) Gillis (Dot Dot Dot dot com), Nick (I play interesting stuff on the bass and you can't, but I'm nice about it) Winkworth, Judith (I can't believe that I gave up a kidless evening just to put up with the likes of Sharkboy and other assorted feggeekery) Winkworth (?), and the rest, meaning that I feel totally amazed that I remembered that much, despite being sure that I have left out more than the names of the people with whom Chris Frantz arrived. I also chatted with Glen about American Football and warned him that Denver wasn't going to be a push-over for Oakland on Monday Night. This raised my predictions accuracy for the season to something like 5%. Watch out Jimmy Kimmell. Oh. I also found out the secret that Carol is keeping from Glen until their wedding and I have offered to help. I don't know where we are going to get all those ballbearings and all that chocolate sauce, but the fritos and spam should be easy. I won't reveal the rest. Really. Some of us ate fish 'n' chips that the barpersons ran next door to retrieved. The food was B to B+ for a bar, which seemed almost perfect for attending a show by a B+ artist. ;-) I felt glad I had purchased some tums immediately before dinner. I used them. Vamanosed en masse de toto y dorotea con mucho gusto el mono del tigre tome todos los nosotros mi no conozco de que me diga al fresco de el grande americano jallo de musica y stoodo aroundo en la lina. This translated means something like: we all and you and your little dog too walked over to the great american music hall and a tigermonkey ate us and I don't know what I'm saying and we stood in line. The tigermonkey part was just thrown in to see if you were still reading. Sydney (I am a Headblade sometimes and outrageous and fun but watch out, "you have no idea what a real...") Coatsworth was standing behind Jeme (who had kindly sacrificed valuable "cranberry juice and soda water with no ice and maybe just maybe could you give me a lime and cumquat twist from the bar" time to get in line) and it was totally wonderful to see her, and well, Jeme too. She says she's been lurking, so watch out. Hmmmmmmmm. Say, Sydney's bidet is tomorrow and she moves into a house then too. Happy 22nd, Sydney! Okay, we stood around in a slight drizzle, while many people tried on my hat. Those of giant, wide billboard foreheads (major league baseball can track my forehead with their satellites) seemed to fit nicely in the cap, while those who eluded misshapen head syndrome found that the hat was somehow large for them. We saw John Partridge and Dave, who works with me, Stephen (I'm better looking than Antonio Banderas but I'm not conceited at all) Welsh. Once we made it inside, I was able to see lots more fegs and talked to many of you. It's kind of sad that we didn't get to hang together all day and have a chance to connect and reconnect. It seems that many of my closest friends seem to be from this list, and I'm certain that I would have more close friends if I knew y'all better. I did get a chance to chat with Nur, Dean, Jeff, and I was finally lucky enough to have the stereo Reichstein experience (Oh man you haven't lived until you have chatted with these two together.) I saw Russ and Anita and we were able to chat some. Of course, there wasn't enough time to really talk, but... Well, you have all heard about the show, but here are a few of my experiences/opinions/twiddly bits: - -departure lounge is by far the best openning act I've seen for Robyn - -standing behind Jeff and Nick isn't the easiest way to view a show if one is a relative, well, dwarf - -I thought the drummer was one of the best and most musical I've seen in quite a while. His timing was impeccable- I know, that's his job, but most aren't that good. - -the bassist was perfectly locked to the drummer, though he didn't contribute much harmonically to the music - -when Kimberl(e)y played a foul note Russ and I got a big kick out of him going around again and playing the same thing with the bad note again. Guitarist's law #3: If you play a wrong note, you must play that note again to assure your audience of your intention and your genius. (Rule #1: never play a solo at 10 if your amp goes all the way up to 11. Rule #2: Be crappy, but be convincing.) - -this is the hardest I've heard Robyn "rock" - -a few sound errors occurred, with the band distorting. There was constant feedback through a couple of tunes. That said, it is very difficult to do live sound when the band is loud and somebody insists on playing an acoustic. - -Robyn seemed like he was having a good time and so did everybody else. - -I think that Robyn likes touring with Tim because besides Bill Gates, who else has dependably worse hair than Robyn. - -Tim's hair looked almost exactly like a Robyn drawing of a tomato top. - -I couldn't believe how many people were chatting away while Departure Lounge was playing. - -I thought Kim's hair looked great. He was probably almost as handsome as James Dignan is now some twenty-something years ago. - -I do think that Tim pales somewhat next to Robyn, Kim, and the drummer in the band situation. - -I imagined DP Gumby announcing the band: "Theese eeeze a rilleee beeg rohk shough, feechurin: Teem Kueegan oon LUEAD GEETAH Robeen Eeechcoowk oon LUEAD GEETAH Kimbuhlee Rooo oon LUEAD GEETAH. Poot yore 'ands t'gethoh fo roobin eechkowk's rook ahmodda, thooink yooooooo." We coagulated and congeled after the show for pics and talked briefly outside before splitting up. I have hearded cats before and Nick is correct when he says that getting people actually in the picture is very difficult with this group. I managed to bilk ten bucks out of Sydney, due to my ignorance and her generosity so I could bail my car out. I drove home along the coast while listening to the DL CD, often glimpsing the reflection of the moon on the pacific, pacific ocean. It was a very magical evening. If I have left your name off my poorly digestable travel bit, it was not because you aren't wonderful or haven't made an impression. It simply means that I am having one of those elderly moments or you weren't there. "Show some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself." -TMBG I like you all better the more time I am with you, and I liked you to begin with. I hope to spend more time with you soon. Happies, - -Markg ps. I'll try to post something about Stan Ridgway's new album soon. I know you've all been waiting.... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:12:29 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Reap Quentin Crisp James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 13:12:43 +1300 From: James Dignan Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #436 >Speaking of movies, has anyone out there seen Run Lola Run? It's been out >in the US for months now, but I don't seem to recall any movie-happy Fegs >talking about it. pretrty sure I did. If I didn't I meant to. Good stuff - the sort of movie that you leave feeling exhausted and exhilarated, although you're right that the characterisation didn't go very deep. Then again, it's one of the movies that probably doesn't lose too much from that. James PS - I shall have to respond to the shock at my possible genetic link to a rubber shark once I get back from a few days' holiday. See y'all next week! James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 16:17:30 -0800 From: "Mr. Kidkill" Subject: Re: Robyn in SF, nickname proliferation, FegSYDNEY'S BIRTHDAY IS TOMORROW! Mark pontificated: > Carol (I am not Cartman's moms voice, since I'm alive and all that and that > ratbastard Mark doesn't even know my last name, geeze), It's Geddes as in Rose of or Anne or Barbara Bel... > I also chatted with Glen about American Football and warned him > that Denver wasn't going to be a push-over for Oakland on Monday Night. I don't want to talk about it. > I also found out the secret that Carol is keeping from Glen until their > wedding and I have offered to help. I don't know where we are going to get all > those ballbearings and all that chocolate sauce, but the fritos and spam > should be easy. I won't reveal the rest. Really. Gee, the old chocolate frito and spam ballbearing sauce thing AGAIN?!? Can't you two come up with something original? > -I think that Robyn likes touring with Tim because besides Bill Gates, who > else has dependably worse hair than Robyn. Uh, me? "Sometimes I look at my hair and think, 'Fuck it! Someone needs to die!'" - --Bill Hicks > -I couldn't believe how many people were chatting away while Departure > Lounge was playing. It reminded me of the rudeness of the crowd during Moris Tepper's set at the Backstage in Seattle in 1995. - -- Cheers! - -g- DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed by the author are not necessarily those of 99.9% of the rest of the world. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Glen Uber uberg@sonic.net http://www.sonic.net/~uberg ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #438 *******************************