From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #437 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, November 23 1999 Volume 08 : Number 437 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: counting rocks [Eb ] Re: counting rocks [Ethyl Ketone ] Now you has jazz [Terrence M Marks ] Re: Now you has jazz ["Chris!" ] tapes sought ["Anal Oil Leakage" ] Re: kcrw! and rlr! [Chris Franz ] AllStar nooz (just four songs? sheesh) [Eb ] Re: Now you has jazz [Michael R Godwin ] togepi ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] Re: cunt rock [Christopher Gross ] Advertising the dead [ElizaS33@aol.com] Re: Err. That should have read "Poke-Robyn" [Bayard ] Re: disturbing personal news [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Intel defines new standard for Europe, Middle East [Christopher Gross ] farewell GLR and hello Robyn ["Ghost Surfer" ] Re: chump rock ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: Now you has jazz [ultraconformist@ets.cncdsl.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 22:35:08 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: counting rocks Anal Leak: >i even had to >pass using the right shoulder on several occasions, so reluctant was i to >ease off the throttle. Yeeeikes. I'm glad that I don't carpool with you. >The Philosophers Stone Oh yes...he didn't play the much-discussed "Philosopher's Stone" in L.A., did he? Ah well. >Bip Bop (Dog & Onion) What da hell is dis? >well, he *did* clap into his mic. but you're right, the claps were nearly >inaudible. The drummer *could* have made this ploy work much better, too -- if only he had clapped for *real*, instead of doing this meek little curved-handclasp thing, with no "backswing" whatsoever. He should've pulled the full Tommy Lee, and clapped over his head, all macho MTV-style! :) >with most of us about to drop dead from sleepiness >(though eb seemed positively *wired*). Heh heh. >but, hell, we got to watch capuch'n consume an entire carafe of water *and* >an entire carafe of orange juice! You seemed terribly fascinated with my pancake-eating, as well. >my two favorite ebmoments were, first, when...um, i think i'd asked him if >he'd ever had the pleasure of interviewing vanilla ice, or something. can't >really remember. but somehow, we'd elicited the comment that eb doesn't >like any west-coast hip-hop artists. I don't think I said this at all. What *I* recall telling you was that I hadn't ever interviewed a hip-hop artist, except for P.M. Dawn. That's all. I don't recall any East/West element entering the dialogue. And I did say that I don't like the Beastie Boys, but this has nothing to do with "regional" issues. (This is somewhat ancient history, but I liked that Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy album quite a bit...that's West Coast. Also, I'm perfectly willing to believe there are some engaging West Coast rappers whom I simply haven't heard. I would *never* claim to be a rap expert....) Eb Speaking of which... 16) Public Enemy/Fear of a Black Planet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 01:55:04 -0500 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: Re: counting rocks At 10:35 PM -0800 11/22/99, Eb wrote:>I don't think I said this at all. What *I* recall telling you was that I >hadn't ever interviewed a hip-hop artist, except for P.M. Dawn. That's all. >I don't recall any East/West element entering the dialogue. And I did say >that I don't like the Beastie Boys, but this has nothing to do with >"regional" issues. damn Eb, It's a good thing you're not an Art critic!!! I have a few friends who might be in deep yogurt if you concentrated on just the visual arts... Be Seeing You, - - c "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** M.E.Ketone/C.Galbraith meketone@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 01:59:53 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Now you has jazz I've recently become moderately interested in the world of jazz music. Unfortunately, I don't know from jazz subgenres. If I'm talking about "jazz like John Coltrane", or "jazz like Enoch Light", or "jazz like Bill Berry" or so-on, there's got to be some nice, easy terms I can pigeonhole things with. I can generally identify dixieland and bebop. What else is there that I can call things? np-Karl & Harty, "Prisoner's Dream". Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://www.unlikeminerva.com normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:07:35 -0800 From: "Chris!" Subject: Re: Now you has jazz > What else is > there that I can call things? > Apart from the nouns and verbs, you're pretty much stuck with the adjective and adverb. The trouble is that all four of these were developed without good documentation and there is little to no user support. However, all of them are open-source. My suggestion is to get them with the English Language Tool Kit (again open-source, but scant documentation). The best way to determine if you have issued a correct "call" is to measure the reaction time of listners. The longer the statement is processed by the listner, the more you should work on strucutring simpler queries between nouns and verbs. If the statements issued are understood but return from the listners is still too long, try limiting the queries use of adjectives and adverbs in the logical statements. .chris ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:15:12 PST From: "Anal Oil Leakage" Subject: tapes sought yo, if anybody who'd taped either the kusf or kcrw spots would like to organise a trade, i'd be absolutely thrilled. lots to offer in return.... ...er, once i've corralled all my masters, that is. i'm a bit disappointed that i've so far only received tapes back from mr. michael runion. (thanks, boss!) if whosoever else is holding on to some could post them asap (as in, tomorrow), that would be MOST appreciated. i promised to send copies to World Of Lobster, and i was hit up for tapes by a massive number of people; so i'd really like to get spinning at the earliest possible juncture. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 23:27:18 -0800 From: Chris Franz Subject: Re: kcrw! and rlr! JH3 wrote: > >Neat! Is there a web page with his set list? Or could you post it, > >perchance? > > Actually, I did try to keep track of the setlist, so, before the RealAudio > feed died on me I got this: > > Television: See No Evil > Captain Beefheart: Low Yo Yo Stuff > Damned: New Rose > Iggy & the Stooges: Search & Destroy > Country Joe & the Fish: Not So Sweet Martha Lorraine > Julian Cope: Charlotte Anne > Spacemen 3: Losing Touch With My Mind And unfortunately I somehow botched the taping of this (don't worry, someone else got it). I have about the last ten minutes, namely Talking Heads: Heaven Leonard Nimoy: I Walk The Line RH: The Ghost In You Can't remember what was between Spacemen 3 and Talking Heads. Sometime after I finally get some sleep I'll post my reaction to the weekend of concerts and feg-meetings. For now I'll just say the shows were a blast, the mighty crew of Fegs was great fun (even Eb), and I'm so glad I moved away from southern California. - - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 00:04:14 -0800 From: Eb Subject: AllStar nooz (just four songs? sheesh) >CULT FAVORITES THE SHAGGS DELIGHT & CONFUSE AT >REUNION SHOW > Depending on your point of view, the Shaggs are either >one of the greatest rock bands of all time or one of >the worst -- there's no middle ground. > >At the very least, the story of these cult favorites is >one of rock music's most intriguing. That's why their >brief appearance at New York's Bowery Ballroom on >Saturday (Nov. 20) night was a historic event: it was >their first show in 25 years; their first show ever >outside of their hometown of Fremont, N.H.; and since >most of their fans only became aware of them after NRBQ >keyboardist Terry Adams convinced his label, Rounder, >to reissue the Shaggs' debut album in 1980, it was the >first time most anybody had ever seen them. > >And the occasion warranted it: NRBQ, the longtime >Boston bar band with the extremely loyal Northeastern >fanbase, was celebrating its 30th anniversary with a >two-night stand here, and pulling out all the stops. >Since the Shaggs owed so much of their resurgent >popularity to Adams, they obliged -- at least, two of >them did. > >Dot Wiggin (who wrote virtually all of the band's songs >in the late '60s) and Betty Wiggin walked onstage to a >roar of applause, accompanied by NRBQ drummer Tom >Ardolino, who was sitting in for the third Wiggin >sister, Helen. "She couldn't make it," said Dot -- not >surprisingly, since live performance is not exactly a >priority in their lives these days. > >The Wiggin sisters are now middle-aged, long married >and settled, and far removed from 1969, when they were >three na?ve teenage girls prodded by their domineering >father, Austin Wiggin, to form a rock band. Despite the >fact that they had barely learned to play their >instruments -- two electric guitars and a drum -- >Austin Wiggin paid for a day in a recording studio, >where they recorded the songs that became Philosophy of >the World, now considered a masterpiece by some, >including Frank Zappa, who once called it his third >all-time favorite album. > >Indeed, even though the album is, by conventional >standards, an utter mess -- the guitars are out of >tune, there is no discernable rhythm to the drumming, >and the melodies childlike at best -- there is a >fascinating artistry to Dot Wiggin's songs, which >explore themes such as pets, parents, and Halloween. >It's the aural equivalent of fingerpainting as high >art. > >At any rate, on Saturday night, the Wiggin sisters >still retained much of their na?ve charm. They opened >with "Philosophy of the World" (with its memorable >refrain, "The poor people want what the rich people >got/ And the rich people want what the poor people >got..."), attempting to strum their two out-of-tune >Fender Stratocasters (quite an upgrade, for them), >squinting at lyric sheets for help, and once again >attempting to harmonize in their own unique way, as >Ardolino did his best to approximate Helen's sense of >timing. Although both sisters were appreciably nervous, >Dot seemed genuinely excited to be there -- introducing >each song in her thick New Hampshire dialect, and even >going so far as to ask for audience participation on >"He's My Cutie" (!). > >Their four-song set also included the emotional >"Painful Memories" and, for the big finale, "My Pal >Foot Foot" -- "the song we know you've all been waiting >for," said Dot proudly. Unfortunately, this rendition >disintegrated into even more confusion than usual, as >Dot and Betty seemed to lose rhythm, melody, and lyrics >at various points in the song. > >Oddly, though, it was not the most ideal scenario for a >Shaggs reunion: despite the NRBQ support, that band's >fans (mostly drunk, forty-something loyalists) appeared >to grow impatient with Dot and Betty, once they stopped >laughing after the first song. Thankfully, there were >just enough Shaggs curiosity-seekers mixed into the >crowd to appreciate them -- and rightly so, considering >it may be another 25 years before anyone sees them >again. > > - John Bitzer ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:37:19 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Now you has jazz On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Terrence M Marks wrote: > I've recently become moderately interested in the world of jazz music. > Unfortunately, I don't know from jazz subgenres. If I'm talking about > "jazz like John Coltrane", or "jazz like Enoch Light", or "jazz like Bill > Berry" or so-on, there's got to be some nice, easy terms I can pigeonhole > things with. I can generally identify dixieland and bebop. What else is > there that I can call things? I have just completed an 8-week course listening to some jazz albums so I ought to be able to answer this. I am quite happy to be contradicted about anything below - it's all new to me. The bloke Steve Day who gave the course was heavily into 'Free Jazz', which is Ornette Coleman and the like - minimal harmonic content. 'Bebop' is Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie and John Coltrane. 'Mainstream' is Duke Ellington and related (Lester Young etc.). 'Dixieland' is I suspect what UK jazzers would call 'Trad jazz' - Louis Armstrong, Jack Teagarden, Sidney Bechet, Bix Biederbecke. 'Cool jazz' is Kenny Burrell, Stan Getz etc, and merges into 'Bossa Nova'. 'Swing' is Benny Goodman, the Dorsey Brothers, Mel Torme etc. 'Fusion' is John McLaughlin, Weather Report and other outfits related to electric Miles Davis. Django Reinhardt is more or less out on his own - some people call him 'Gypsy jazz'. 'Ragtime' is apparently not jazz at all, and neither is blues. - - Mike "beat me daddy eight to the bar" Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 04:18:22 -0800 (PST) From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: togepi > From: "matt sewell" > Perhaps Ludwig (who I guess came originally from Czechoslovakia or > Germany > and was similarly a walking egg with arms and legs and a whole load of > other > gadgetry) forms the inspiration for Togepi? Togepi actually looks like a star inside the bottom half of an eggshell. It has not yet decided to hatch. It's not quite Humpty Dumpty -- more Linus Van Pelt. > From: Christopher Gross > Speaking of movies, has anyone out there seen Run Lola Run? It's been Yep. Much better than I expected from the previews (which made it look butt-stupid). Nothing I'd care to see again but a charming little "Groundhog Day" flick. And what a cutie Lola's dopey boyfriend was! > it a flaw. The visuals are all about frantic motion and a very > attractive > main character; I suppose Lola herself wasn't uncute, yeah. > to stretch, you could even call it a movie about chaos theory. I'd > recommend it to anyone who isn't turned off by the phrase "driving > techno > soundtrack." I would have been, but I liked the soundtrack. Drew ===== Andrew D. Simchik, schnopia@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:47:25 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: cunt rock On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Anal Oil Leakage wrote: > agreed. but i'll tell y'all one of my current pet peeves. in an ad, or on > a restaurant's sign, when they'll cartoonically depict the restaurant's > specialty. for example, a chicken rotisserie restaurant will have a pic of > some chickens happily cavorting (blissfully unawares, it is to be presumed, > of their imminent demise). or a seafood restaurant will have a picture of a > lobster being held over a vat of boiling water, with an horrified look on > its face. whatever. this just seems sadistic to the extreme. and i don't > know whether it's a new trend/fad, or something i've just recently taken > notice of. It's the latest fashion -- Mean Cuisine! > (but why was > the pix of chris g. and myself hugging one another splotched with blood? > everyone kept asking *me* that, and the only thing i could posit was that it > was another of l.j.'s sinister pranks.) It wasn't a prank, it was an act of mercy. LJ Photoshopped the blood in to distract people from the dorky grin on my face. Thanks, LJ! - --Chris, who isn't a vegetarian, but who thinks the average American could stand to eat a lot *less* meat, for both health and environmental reasons ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:49:58 EST From: ElizaS33@aol.com Subject: Advertising the dead In a message dated 11/23/99 7:42:59 AM, chrisg@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu writes: << > agreed. but i'll tell y'all one of my current pet peeves. in an ad, or on > a restaurant's sign, when they'll cartoonically depict the restaurant's > specialty. for example, a chicken rotisserie restaurant will have a pic of > some chickens happily cavorting (blissfully unawares, it is to be presumed, > of their imminent demise). or a seafood restaurant will have a picture of a > lobster being held over a vat of boiling water, with an horrified look on > its face. whatever. this just seems sadistic to the extreme. and i don't > know whether it's a new trend/fad, or something i've just recently taken > notice of. >> I've seen that sort of advertising ever since I can remember (since approximately last Tuesday) (not really). What worries me more than the people who come up with them is that there must be a fairly significant portion of the population that responds favorably to them, or they wouldn't keep making them... would they? "Wow, that lobster looks terrified! Waiter, bring me one of those scared lobsters, would ya?" Oh, I don't know. Elizabeth The Gallery of Indispensable Pop Music http://homepages.go.com/~popgallery ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:31:47 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Err. That should have read "Poke-Robyn" > At 9:48 AM -0800 11/22/99, Nick Winkworth wrote: > >I blame Ninteno's lawyers. On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Ethyl Ketone wrote: > I almost went to work for those guys - until I realized: think microsoft's bad? you should have seen some of the shit nintendo pulled in the 80's. God. People. Posting in the style of Jeme today. =b. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 09:36:10 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: disturbing personal news >I have just had some disturbing personal news while researching my family tree. >In 1919, my grandfather and grandmother married in Finmere, >Buckinghamshire, England. Twenty-five year old Edinburgh-born James Patrick >Dignan had just returned from serving with the 5th Lancers in France. His >new bride was the 22-year-old Dubliner, Eleanor Gloster Mahon. This is certainly the island from whence my family flowed to the "colonies." I understand that my peeps are from County Kerry, which is east southeast and on the opposite side of the small island. It isn't much of a stretch of my imagination to say that you have some of my family genes. As much of a curse as this may sound, be comforted that this side of the family carries beauty, intelligence, blue eyes, and really good looking noses- kind of like ski jumps. The less positive side of the charm that is "gloster" is that the males tend to be alcoholic, workaholic, incommunicative, have sinus problems, optical imperfections, a tiny amount of male pattern baldness, impatience, and a desperate need to make up facts and/or be right all of the time. Oh, and blood that is very heavy in viscosity. I had thought that the migraine thing came from the other side, but now I wonder.... I trust you're fortunate to have avoided receiving the brilliance of the other side of my family, as its costs include manic behavior, bipolar nature, more cute little pieces of insanity like a certain early death wish. But, hey, I think I get my awesome hair from that side. I'm just guessing that you got your brilliance some other way. I seem to have skated by a number of the "family tendancies," due to obvious alien intervention at just the right time. >Erm... does this suggest perhaps that me and Mark the shark... erm... I >don't feel very well... Somehow, I believe that we would both feel more comforted if it was the other way around. At least we now know where you get your good looks. Jeme and I were discussing how like me that Kimberly Rew looks. I swear that if I wore a grey mop on my head and removed my glasses, I could perfectly match him until you handed me a guitar. You don't suppose that we are all three related and the really good guitar playing genes forked away from my part of the tree, do you? I will stop here before I type anything more disturbing. I know, there's nothing more disturbing that I could. Wait. "THE GREAT QUAIL!" Sorry, I understand that that is like reaching for the nuke button in polite conversation. It won't happen aga"THE GREAT QUAIL!"n. Sorry! Happies and I hope you can get to sleep tonight, - -M(sh)ark(boy)g, the source of James Dignan's nightmares ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 12:55:02 -0500 (EST) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Intel defines new standard for Europe, Middle East See it here: - --CHRIS "Mac users never make mistakes" THE CHRISTER ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:11:45 -0500 (EST) From: Eric Loehr Subject: Now you has jazz? On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Terrence M Marks wrote: > I've recently become moderately interested in the world of jazz music. > Unfortunately, I don't know from jazz subgenres. If I'm talking about > "jazz like John Coltrane", or "jazz like Enoch Light", or "jazz like Bill > Berry" or so-on, there's got to be some nice, easy terms I can pigeonhole > things with. I can generally identify dixieland and bebop. What else is > there that I can call things? > Kenny G. walks into an elevator: "Man, this place ROCKS!" * *(thanks to Richard Thompson) Eric, who doesn't consider Kenny G. jazz, but couldn't resist using it as an excuse to throw this at the list. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:46:40 PST From: "Ghost Surfer" Subject: farewell GLR and hello Robyn There's a vicious rumour that Robyn will be playing the 100 club in London on wednesday 24th November at the Save GLR gig. Haven't heard for sure yet, but it might just happen. Listen to GLR to find out i guess. Robyn will be on the station from 2 & 6 pm on Saturday when the station broadcasts its last from their present home in Marylebone High St before they move off for a while. They will carry on broadcasting, but the BBC bosses look set to impose their "less music" policy on them. As this is the only station to play RH his profile in his home town will be significantly reduced. Shame. Viva GLR - ----------------************************************************------------ "There are times when i can't think about the future, when all my days seem so dark and life seems cruel" - Mojave 3 & "Make a moment last forever, gaze across the ocean to the sun" - Unknown !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:48:30 -0800 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: chump rock At 08:20 PM 11/22/99 -0800, Anal Oil Leakage wrote: >11/20/99, The Troubadour, Los Angeles >-- astride the coolest doorman in history -- This fellow recognized me last night when I went to the Troubadour again to see OTC and Stereolab. And, as a Southern Californian, I *do* live to be recognized. You know, I was a little surprised that the Departure Lounge drummer recognized me in LA from the San Francisco show. This was probably because in SF I was up at the front of the stage, blocking his view of Eddie. Actually, I spied Chris and the drummer dude from the Departure Lounge across the crowd at the Stereolab concert, but after a song or so, they disappeared up into The Loft never to be seen again. I also saw two aluminum foil gNat-Thoths up on stage amongst the Olivia Tremor Control clutter; one of them not more than a couple of feet from my face atop a stand in front of Bill Doss, perched before some odd goldfish sculpture. This one fell over during the second to last OTC song. Another Thoth again sat up on a Roland amp next to the leader singer's water bottle and setlist during Stereolab. This one remained upright throughout the entire show. Earlier in our program, at 07:58 PM 11/21/99 -0800, our very own Eb wrote: >Stereolab: absolutely amazing. A serious bliss-out for me. Maybe the best >show I've seen this year, except for Tom Waits. I wouldn't give them *as* glowing a review as you did... hell, you lightheartedly used the term "godlike" to describe the show to me Saturday night... but, still, fuck yeah, they were terrific with a capital "rif." Demigodlike, perhaps? Titanlike, at least. Minor-deity-esque even. OK, "amazing" is a good word. I'll agree with that. I loved their grooves. And, as oftentimes happens, too much of my attention was spent focusing on the bass player. He was playing high up on the neck for most of the time, which is something I really get into. He even used a capo on a few songs, as high up as Eb on the lowest bass string (rather than de-tuning half a step) - that's the 11th fret if you're using the metric system. I was drooling like a dog during the Olivia Tremor, though. Now, these guys really were close to "godlike!" But, like "eee bee," I admit that I preferred the OTC show I saw earlier this year, up in Claremont. "I Have Been Floated" just wasn't the same without Julian Koster's saw. They played a longer set supposedly than the night before at the Palace, but still ended up cutting a couple of songs, including "California Demise," from their setlist to squeeze into the 45 minute limit. I had carpooled up with a member of the Elephant 6 mailing list, and she snagged a copy of the setlist, which was scrawled onto the back of a map of the Boston area. The funniest line of the night came from Bill Doss: "Can I get some more crab can in the monitor?" >While I was trotting down the street, some snotty teenage girl in >a car yelled out "RUN, Forrest...RUN!" at me. Heh heh. OK, she definitely >scored a point on me there. :) Hearing you tell this tale in person was definitely my favorite Eb-moment. Seeing Eddie's face light up like a virgin in a stripclub when I told him that Eb was in da house ("Eb's here!??!!? Where?!?!") was my favorite Tews-moment. Telling the Departure Lounge drummer that Eddie was their "own personal stalker" was my favorite Jason-moment. >Yes, it >was neat to see Robyn with a real lead guitarist again, and Rew's jittery >stage presence was fun, but I don't think he warrants all these extended >"Muppet" raves and the like. It just wasn't that notable -- OK, so he makes >faces and shakes his body. Fine. I told Eddie something very similar Friday night. I just didn't really see the muppet thing at all. If anything, Kimberly reminded me more of Dana Carvey's "Garth." I was more impressed by his playing in Frisco, however. He was on fire Friday night. Or maybe I was just more excited to finally see him...? - --Jason "elephant sexy" Thornton "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 13:21:17 -0600 From: ultraconformist@ets.cncdsl.com Subject: Re: Now you has jazz You want my honest opinion, Terry, you should probably try to find a book. There's more to learn than one can say in an email like this :). >On Tue, 23 Nov 1999, Terrence M Marks wrote: >> I've recently become moderately interested in the world of jazz music. >> Unfortunately, I don't know from jazz subgenres. If I'm talking about >> "jazz like John Coltrane", Are you talking about 'Ascension" or "Blue Train"? ;) >> there that I can call things? Lots. Mr. Godwin: >The bloke Steve Day who gave the course was heavily into 'Free Jazz', >which is Ornette Coleman and the like - minimal harmonic content. Some general terms that might help young Terrence are "straight ahead" and "outside". This music is outside. It's a less specific term than "free", which basically means, oh, I dunno, "amelodic". "Outside" is anything of an avant-garde or experimental kind. >'Bebop' is Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie and John Coltrane. This is straight ahead. That's the general catch-all that corresponds to "outside". It means anything that's not particularly experimental or out-there, I guess. These are difficult to explain. You kinda know when you hear them. And "bebop" does fit some early Coltrane, but if Terry picks up "Ascension" expecting bebop he will be confused. Coltrane went through a lot of changes. >'Mainstream' is Duke Ellington and related (Lester Young etc.). This I've never heard in my 8 years of being a jazz DJ. I've heard the word mainstream, to be sure, but not applied like that. This may present a communication hazard when speaking with UK jazzers :). Usually Duke Ellington, Basie, &c. are called by the literal term, "big-band". These bands are often grouped as "sweet" or "hot". Generally speaking, white bands played "sweet" and black bands played "hot", although it doesn't break down quite that neatly in all cases (the Charlie Barnet Orchestra was a "hot" band). This is a stylistic designation, mostly, and not a racial codeword, although there are people who use it that way. I'm running into trouble here, as you can see, because these things are really difficult to put into words, and very easy to illustrate by just playing some music. Anyway, the difference between "sweet" and "hot" is quite easily understood by playing Glenn Miller and then playing Basie. Soloists of the period right before bebop, like Lester Young, usually are referred to as "swing". >Also called "swing". OK, so commmunication may not be as difficult as I thought :). >'Dixieland' is I suspect what UK jazzers would call 'Trad jazz' - Louis >Armstrong, Jack Teagarden, Sidney Bechet, Bix Biederbecke. True, that's a difference. I've heard this called "early jazz" as well. >'Cool jazz' is Kenny Burrell, Stan Getz etc, and merges into 'Bossa Nova'. Why is this bothering me? OK, I think we refer to this differently here too. First off, "cool" had two schools, "west coast" and "east coast". Speaking generally again, the east coast stuff was more, hrm, driving, while the west coast stuff is more gentle. Much easier, again, if you can hear some examples. Take a Johnny Griffin and listen back to back with a Chet Baker, you hear the difference. The east coast cool stuff is often also referred to as "hard bop". Burrell, Getz, et al., are also "cool", but it's a bit later thing than what I'm talking about, which is maybe one step from bop or kind of concurrent. Then you also have "post-bop", which is the music that eventually evolves into "free", basically. It's a half-step. This would be some Wayne Shorter, Miles Davis in the era of "ESP" or so, and like that. >Django Reinhardt is more or less out on his own - some people call him >'Gypsy jazz'. I've heard him called "cafe jazz" also. Generally there isn't really a word for thim tho, he and his buddy Stephane are just kinda there :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #437 *******************************