From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #363 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, September 25 1999 Volume 08 : Number 363 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: OK, maybe San Diego *doesn't* suck (5% implied Radiohead slag) [Eb ] Re: NMH, You and Oblivion [Bayard ] decomposing composers ["Andrew D. Simchik" ] JfS review ["Kevin Mathews" ] re: more from the list's new Goth lobby [Eb ] Re: i feel zombified [Ethyl Ketone ] the pretentiousness of Keeping It Real ["Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: Re: OK, maybe San Diego *doesn't* suck (5% implied Radiohead slag) >SAN DIEGO (AP) - When Hootie & the Blowfish took to the stage at San Diego >State University this week, it wasn't >just to rock 'n' roll. >The musicians waxed scholarly, offering a free one-hour lecture titled, >``Careers in Rock Bands.'' >Despite winning two Grammy Awards and selling more than 18 million albums, >the group only attracted 40 students. Hilarious. :) Any thoughts on the new Stereolab? BOY, this one's a mouthful. There's more musical content within this disc than in many bands' CAREERS. ;) This is definitely going to take a few more listens. Eb PS Those of you who favor belabored, quavering, melodramatic vibrato over tunefulness may want to grab Muse's debut, on Maverick Records. The sad thing is that even I don't care for the album, it's STILL one of the better debuts I've heard this year. Sheesh. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:43:22 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: i feel zombified >From: The Great Quail >Subject: Re: i feel dutiful > >Hey!!!! You be careful or I'll send Nick Fiend to beat you up! Then >he'll beat up your puppy, trash your room, and take nude pictures >with your mom! (He'd do that kind of thing, you know.) That'd all be just fine if he'd draw one of his cool pictures on the wall, too. >- --Quail, perhaps the only ASF fan on the List? Heck no. I'm a longtime ASF fan. I even own both (or is it all three?) versions of the Acid Bath LP. I dabbled in goth for a while, but got real sick of the pretentiousness real fast. But I always loved ASF, mainly because they had a sense of humor. And members named Yaxi Highrise and Johnny HaHa. Loved those names. "Who is the man? Give us a clue! Living on thinner, choking on glue! And I said 'Heeeeee haawwww...'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:04:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: NMH, You and Oblivion Tobyhello@aol.com wrote: > I also got You And Oblivion, which is 2/3 great, in my opinion; but then > again, I'm a real sucker for simple Hitchcock acoustic songs. Thinking of > which, there must be quite a lot of unreleased examples; has anyone ever > tried to make a definitive collection of all of his unreleased songs? there are Way Too Many. there have been some great collections, though. back around the turn of the 90's Dan Poppe made a collection of mostly solo tracks from mostly bay-area gigs of that era and a few years before. This is called either "real live rarities" or "the Robyn springs forth". "Uncarved Pumpkins" is a compilation John B. Jones made in (i think) 1994, even before he joined the list. there are a couple versions floating around with slightly different songs - he cleaned it up with fresher versions after he found better quality live tapes. (fewer generations, etc) Robyn asked me if I did U.P. when I talked with him after the ram's head gig. I told him it was Lobsterman, but that I had done a multi-part compilation called- "Unhatched Crablings", which will have another one or two installments coming out as soon as I get a certain CDR from someone that has some songs I'd like to use. There have been some amazing songs uncovered recently. Also, Eddie, could you resend to me "vengeance is mine", Bob Dylan KGB, the really weird ghost ship, and whatever else? If you collect tapes and have a really interesting cover or unreleased song or improvised tune, let me know! i want to do an "unreleases" page at some point. for now, the glass hotel should be back up and running at glasshotel.net/gh - but that domain won't propagate for a while. use the ip address. http://158.72.85.207/gh =b ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:53:34 -0400 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: decomposing composers >From: Eb >Still not sure whether to call him Drew or Andrew: Only complete strangers call me Andrew (good way to weed out telemarketers). Drew is just fine. [Surfacing:] >>To me, the melodies are lackluster, and you know we >>disagree entirely about baroque excesses and whether >>it's okay to enjoy them. > >"Snappish." Sorry? >There is LOTS of "baroquely excessive" music I enjoy...I almost enjoy it to >a fault. See all my past musings about being a guilty sucker for ornate, >post-Beatles pop. But in Sarah's case, she tends to tart up really thin >songs with lots of window dressing which only underscores how weak the >underlying product is. That doesn't win me over. But it doesn't turn me off. In concert I quite like it. To me, whether it's "window dressing" or part of the "underlying product" is a tough call. [Rasputina's faults:] >>> utter tunelessness, >> >>That's just factually incorrect. > >Um, no, it's an opinion. I don't see how it can be. Maybe it would help if you explained what you mean by "tunelessness." To me, it suggests a lack of melody or a devotion to atonality. Though I cling in my old-fashioned way to tonality, I don't think this definition of "tunelessness" entails bad music. I just don't think it applies to Rasputina, whose songs are often irritatingly catchy to my ears. You have to give some of them a while, though, which you'd be perfectly justified in not doing if you hated them otherwise. >>A given. Goth, by definition, is a contrived image. > >Right. And screw that. "Bite me -- it's fun!" >>> oh yeah, and I saw them >>> live once, and >>> the singer opened the concert by complaining that she >>> needed to take a >>> dump. >> >>Perfect! You can't call *that* a contrived image. > >Of course it was. It was a calculated attempt to be shocking. Calculated to defuse the whole precious Victorian/cello/pretty/ dainty/gothchick contrived image. If she'd really wanted to be shocking (do I guess correctly that she was opening for M. Manson at the time?), she would have complained that she needed to take a dump on your head. >>Not that I doubt she really did have to take a dump. > >I believe the exact words ominously intoned were "I have the ferocious need >for a bowel movement." ;) No one is unique, but everyone is different from someone. To me -- and as a rule I hate toilet humor -- that's a scream. >From: Paul Christian Glenn >Why, though? I *love* the contrived images of Cure and >Morrissey and, heck, Robyn Hitchcock . >I don't see such images as phony or dishonest, but rather >as exaggerations or caricatures of who the artist really >is. Why should that be bothersome? Precisely. To me, contrived image is really inevitable if you're up on stage singing to an audience. Even if it's a contrived image of not having contrived an image. I'd prefer an honest, contrived image to a humorless attempt to seem Real any day of the week. More about which in the next message. >From: The Great Quail > >Drew simcheks: > >>But I digress. Rasputina aren't really very gothic or >>portentous, compared to, oh, I don't know, Alien Sex >>Fiend or someone. > >Hey!!!! You be careful or I'll send Nick Fiend to beat you up! Then >he'll beat up your puppy, trash your room, and take nude pictures >with your mom! (He'd do that kind of thing, you know.) Don't misunderstand me. Gothic and portentous can be a hell of a lot of fun. It's just that Rasputina strike me as neither compared to some *real* goth acts. So while I'm not a big fan of Alien Sex Fiend, neither am I a detractor, and I certainly wasn't citing them as a sucky band in comparison to Rasputina. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, wyrd@rochester.rr.com http://home.rochester.rr.com/wyrd/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:47:12 -0700 From: "Kevin Mathews" Subject: JfS review Here's the JfS review I did for the latest issue of BigO mag in Singapore << ROBYN HITCHCOCK - JEWELS FOR SOPHIA (WARNERS) Mexican God, The Cheese Alarm and ten more. Psychedelic acid folk rock blues! Hitchcock returns with possibly his strongest set since Perspex Island (1991). Backed by the likes of Buck, Brion, Philips, Keegan; name checking Hackman, Cobain, Stipe, Hendrix and evoking Lennon, Dylan, Lee and Barrett - Jewels for Sophia is visceral yet fragile and an indispensable acquisition for the discerning pop anarchist. >> cheers Kevin Mathews Touched by the Power of Pop home.pacific.net.sg/~popland www.mp3.com/artists/12/popland.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:07:31 -0800 From: Eb Subject: re: more from the list's new Goth lobby Drew: >>"Snappish." > >Sorry? Eh, never mind. I'm sure others understood the geeky allusion. ;) >I don't see how it can be. Maybe it would help if you explained what you >mean by "tunelessness." To me, it suggests a lack of melody. Tunelessness = melodies which are 100% unmemorable and uninteresting to me. In Rasputina's case, it almost seems like they're doing it intentionally. I still have Transylvanian Regurgitations and How We Quit the Forest amidst my discard section...maybe you can point out a couple of tunes which are pretty because of their *melodic structure*, not because of "Ooh...strings"? >Calculated to defuse the whole precious Victorian/cello/pretty/ >dainty/gothchick contrived image. Ehhh, I'm not buying that. If Sarah McLachlan told the audience she had to drop a battleship into the water, THAT would be defusing (actually, she adopts a similar strategy -- she delights in jolting her fans with profanity). But when Rasputina mentioned Das Feces, it seemed fairly typical to me. The words "precious" and "dainty" definitely don't come to mind, when I think of Rasputina. I find them fairly ghoulish. And...uhh...gothic, an impression which is somewhat validated by your own endorsement. Eb - ---- 37 worthwhile artists who make me want to wear eyeliner: This Mortal Coil, Cocteau Twins, Swallow, Pale Saints, Spoonfed Hybrid, The Hope Blister, Ultra Vivid Scene, The Birthday Party, Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds, Barry Adamson, Mick Harvey, Crime & The City Solution, Simon Bonney, The Jesus & Mary Chain, Love & Rockets, Tones on Tail, The Cranes (the headliner, the night I had to sit through Rasputina), Nico, Suicide, Julee Cruise, Rosa Mota, The Cramps, He Said, A.C. Marias, Einsturzende Neubauten, Foetus, Throbbing Gristle, My Bloody Valentine, Gavin Friday, Th' Faith Healers, P J Harvey, Diamanda Galas, Mazzy Star, Opal, Ultravox, Nine Inch Nails, Spacemen 3 (now, perhaps you can list 37 which make you want to *remove* it? ;)) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:00:32 -0400 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: Re: i feel zombified At 03:43 PM -0500 9/24/99, Gene Hopstetter, Jr. wrote: >I dabbled in goth for a while, but got real sick of the >pretentiousness real fast. But I always loved ASF, mainly because >they had a sense of humor. And members named Yaxi Highrise and >Johnny HaHa. Loved those names. I have a friend who has told me for several years that deep down inside me is a goth chick trying to get out. Hmmm...... Be Seeing You. "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** M.E.Ketone/C.Galbraith meketone@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:31:00 -0400 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: the pretentiousness of Keeping It Real >From: lj lindhurst >Subject: Re: i feel dutiful > >>Andrew D. Simchik: >>>I steer clear of many of the bands publicly exalted by >>>many fegs because, to me, they're horrifyingly pretentious. >> >>Don't be coy, tell tell tell! >> >>- Steve > >Yeah, geez, what a DIS!! Do tell. Your music sucks ass! Mine is friggin' awesome! That's all there is to it! I'm kidding, of course. Okay, so here are the problems: 1) I haven't listened to some of the bands I'd dis enough to have a well-informed opinion, even by my standards. (The reasons for this should be obvious: I don't like them, and I'm not going to force myself to study them in order to be able to argue with someone else about why I don't like them. Unless I'm getting paid, why endure the agony?) 2) Those of you not in love with confrontation (it's so difficult to type with a cat lying across your hands! damn!) would either be hurt or pissed off by the rude, unresearched things that I would say. That normally doesn't stop me, but because I hate the effect these sorts of slams have on me, I'm trying to cut down on inflicting them on others. 3) Those of you in love with confrontation would flame me back with much more ammunition, being devotees of these bands, and I would be unable to argue and would feel all stupid and silly and stuff. That would suck. 4) I've tried three times to put together some kind of explanation of what I mean and why I feel this way. I can't seem to do it. There's just...a curiously empty feeling I get from these bands, the ones making Quality 90s Music that I know I'm supposed to like. Maybe it's that the expectations I have for them are too high, that I hear they're profound lyricists and compositional virtuosos and they turn out to be third-rate poets and second-rate, bland composers. Maybe I find that bands who are entertaining and "theatrical" are more satisfying, more likely to meet their aims than bands who are trying very hard to be arty and substantial. Maybe it's that they seem three times as depressing to me as the goth bands who are supposed to cheer the fuck up, already! Really, what it seems to be is that these bands want to make extraordinary, baroque, extremely emotional music while affecting an authenticity, a reality, and a grittiness they can't possibly possess. If a band makes ridiculous, overblown, meaningless music within the parameters of a ridiculous, overblown, meaningless image, I can enjoy it. If the band tries to do the music without the image, I'm sickened. It seems more pretentious to me to disavow the theater, to pretend a sincerity they can't possibly deliver, than to be perfectly up front about the essential unreality of getting up on a stage, playing music and baring your soul to 10 - 10,000 perfect strangers. This explanation sucks too. Does anyone else have any idea what I'm trying to express here? Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, wyrd@rochester.rr.com http://home.rochester.rr.com/wyrd/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:34:12 -0400 From: "Andrew D. Simchik" Subject: pretension part II: cowboy fashion I've got it: a good analogy for the phenomenon I'm talking about. In the latest issue of that ridiculous rag OUT Magazine is a fashion spread entitled "COUNTRY." It features a lot of men and women, some who are plainly models, some who are but don't look like models, and they're all standing or sitting in fields wearing worn-out roughin'-it duds over clothing made by Armani, J. Crew, Banana Republic, Dockers, Diesel, and Gianfranco Ferre. In some ways the rustic setting is refreshing, but the whole affair is still just too fake to be bearable. It's as if they're trying for authenticity, or a mix of fashion with authenticity, and that seems admirable on paper but somehow the end product seems even colder than regular old New York or Milan fashion that never pretends to be anything other than overpriced, glitzy clothing that's beyond the pale for most normal humans. These bands that I'm supposed to like: that's how they come across to me. Drew - -- Andrew D. Simchik, wyrd@rochester.rr.com http://home.rochester.rr.com/wyrd/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:51:35 -0400 From: "**twofangs ... aka ... randi**" Subject: from randi - a gift for fegs Hi, I have so much email to write, and I have 30 minutes 'til Sarah takes her computer away. However, if you are a fan of Halloween, {i now think of *scary mary* and how she introduced me to "neutral milk hotel" and how grateful I still am for that and how she loves halloween as much as i do} I have made very pretty picture for the upcoming festivities - well, it is mostly robyn's, but the border is by randi ... Just in case I'm stuck in the hospital and miss my fave holiday of the year ... {gee - twofangs - wonder what I like dressing up as - I have this great recipe for blood from David Cronenberg - and it's fun fun fun} ... I will send my creation to all who wish it ... just an email away :-} I wanted to see Robyn this year - unless I can persuade him to come to T.O., I'd have to go to NYC, which is totally cool {lj & quail :-} and I'd spend Halloween with fegs ... *and* see Robyn with fegs. AaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh What could be better? Well, getting to the west coast {Portland perhaps} is also on my list ... but NYC I might be able to afford ... if I can get out of this place and work one job. Rambling - sorry - had a procedure and heavy drugs - someone should really be preventing me from writing this, let alone sending it. Miss you guys :-( Lots ... But thanks so much for the email and letters and phone-calls, just *one* of those makes my whole day better - really :-} really really ... Okay, I'll fade back into yesterday before the sleepppppppppppppppppppppppppppp Love Randi :-} ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #363 *******************************