From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #357 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, September 21 1999 Volume 08 : Number 357 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 [Paul Christian Glenn ] Re: Effective Drum'n'Bass Technique 101 [Eb ] Re: Effective Drum'n'Bass Technique 101 [Tom Clark ] Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 ["JH3" ] Re: Lily (0% Munsters content) [Eb ] Re: Effective Drum'n'Bass Technique 101 ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 [Joel Mullins ] Effective Songwriting Techniques [Joel Mullins ] Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 [Capuchin ] Re: mecha-streisand (two Very Important Questions) [Capuchin ] Re: Effective Songwriting Techniques [Eb ] Re: mecha-streisand (two Very Important Questions) [Aaron Mandel ] More Songwriting [Joel Mullins ] Quasi-agreement [Natalie Jacobs ] Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 [dmw ] Mine usually begin in a shed just outside Duluth. [digja611@student.otago] Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 [Joel Mullins ] Re: More Songwriting [Ross Overbury ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:31:30 -0600 From: Paul Christian Glenn Subject: Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 At 9/20/99 2:34:00 PM, you wrote: >This is my own problem, at least in the last 10 years or so. Very >difficult to come up with good lyrics, but a lot of it is just a matter >of necessity. The lyrics I wrote when I was actually *finishing* my >own tunes were just as bad as the stuff I did after I stopped being >able to finish them, but because I *had* to finish them, I did, >warts and all. I hear ya. I've ended up changing lyrics post-studio, so that the version we play live is different than the studio version. I guess other bands do it, but it feels kinda wrong. ;) >>So what I'm asking is: when you write songs, where do >>they begin? How do you start? Do you hum melodies >>to yourself and then work them up into songs? Do you >>start with lyrics and add music? Do you start with >>chords or riffs or figures and improvise over them until >>you get something? > >For me, it was always both #1 and #3, but never #2. I never >knew anyone personally who wrote tunes over pre-existing lyrics. >(Elton John does that, I suppose, but I've never met the man.) That's the way my band has always done it. I write lyrics whenever I feel inspired, and then my brother writes the music around them. Trouble with that method is twofold: 1) A lot of my lyrics, including some of my favorites, go unused, and 2) My bro *always* has to write music according to *my* mood, and never the other way around. We've had some good results with this method (especially for softer songs), but for our upcoming recording sessions, we've decided to try to write the songs together, more spontaneously and less scientfically. So far, the results have been encouraging, so I guess what I'm saying is that there probably is no "right way" (insightful, eh?). >>Do you have any suggestions about >>how I could practice, and get the juices flowing, or >>refine the skills, or whatever angle you want to take? I can't write music worth crap, so I don't have any good suggestions for how to create both words and music simultaneously, but I've always found that nothing inspires me more than listening to good music (Robyn). ;) Paul Christian Glenn | "Besides being complicated, trance@radiks.net | reality, in my experience, http://x-real.firinn.org | is usually odd." -C.S. Lewis Currently Reading: "The Tempest" by William Shakespeare ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:37:04 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Storefront promo... >A friend of mine here at work was up in Northampton (MA) this past weekend >and was flipping through the offerings at a record shop when he came across >an album advance for Storefront and picked it up for me. > >Is there any difference between this and the regular release? It's the same, except the advance mentions Rufus Wainwright on the sleeve. ;) >>which reminds me - does anyone here know if Music for the Knee Plays has >>ever come out on CD? >How about the OST for True Stories - has that ever been on CD? I don't think so. I have both albums on cassette, myself. >I never >knew anyone personally who wrote tunes over pre-existing lyrics. >(Elton John does that, I suppose, but I've never met the man.) Don't forget "Mermaid Avenue"! Also, I believe that X's early music was often composed to fit Exene's journal scribblings.... Eb np: Quasi/Field Studies ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:43:24 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Effective Drum'n'Bass Technique 101 >> Jason, who owns a Roland R-70 drum machine but is still confused by >> the distinction between "drum'n'bass" and "jungle" Jungle is half-speed reggae basslines matched with pumping techno music, as far as I know. It's a interesting tension -- you can tap in time or in double-time, depending on which part of the music you favor. I believe that Goldie is the genre's standard-bearer. I'm a little hazy on "drum 'n' bass" too, but I think the general gist is that it has sparse, lean arrangements and all the melodic content is pretty much carried by the basslines (with a tinkling of keyboard here and there). Eb, relieved because he thought the "Cheesy '80s Synths" thread was going to be about Joy Electric ;) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:53:29 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: Effective Drum'n'Bass Technique 101 On 9/20/99 2:43 PM, Eb wrote: >I'm a little hazy on "drum 'n' bass" too, but I think the general gist is >that it has sparse, lean arrangements and all the melodic content is pretty >much carried by the basslines (with a tinkling of keyboard here and there). Check out the offerings from the Compost label in Germany for a good example. - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:09:59 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 >>I never >>knew anyone personally who wrote tunes over pre-existing lyrics. >>(Elton John does that, I suppose, but I've never met the man.) >...I believe that X's early music was often composed to fit Exene's >journal scribblings.... What I meant was that I never had a personal friend, acquaintance, or whatever with a person who did that. I actually met Exene Cervenka once at a college radio group interview, at the old Ontario Theater in DC - must've been back in 1983 or so - but I can hardly say that I knew her in any real sense of the word. (Though she did offer to give us all a hickey.) I wonder how the Lilys write songs? I've probably never heard a band whose songs were as convoluted and, I dunno, *all over the place* as on their last two albums. It almost seems like they're cutting and pasting them together almost randomly... I like them, but if I listen to them for more than 20 minutes at a time, I get this huge headache... P.C. Glenn writes: >...I've always found that nothing inspires me more than >listening to good music (Robyn). ;) It was just the opposite with me! When I'd hear something that really impressed me, I'd just think "what's the point? I'll never even come close to approaching this, so why bother trying?" And then when I heard something I thought was terrible, it was "hell, I could do this, so why the hell aren't I?" I still feel that way, to some extent. (I also hear a lot fewer things that impress me these days, but that's just because I'm getting really, really old.) JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:23:43 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Lily (0% Munsters content) >I wonder how the Lilys write songs? I've probably never heard a band >whose songs were as convoluted and, I dunno, *all over the place* as >on their last two albums. It almost seems like they're cutting and pasting >them together almost randomly... I like them, but if I listen to them for >more than 20 minutes at a time, I get this huge headache... Wow. I wrote a review of the last Lilys album four or five days ago, and it expresses this *exact* same sentiment, even down to calling it headache-inducing. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:31:04 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Re: Effective Drum'n'Bass Technique 101 >>I'm a little hazy on "drum 'n' bass" too, but I think the general gist is >>that it has sparse, lean arrangements and all the melodic content is pretty >>much carried by the basslines (with a tinkling of keyboard here and there). > >Check out the offerings from the Compost label in Germany for a good >example. I was just checking out the AMG All Music Guide online, and they don't differentiate at all between Jungle and Drum'n'Bass, saying that basically they are the same thing. They're not the definitive source on the subject, though, by any means. The DJ I was chatting with spoke as if they were two clearly distinct genres or styles. And, ya gotta go with what the kids are saying... ;) Eb's descriptions make sense too me. The most interesting Drum'n'Bass artist I've heard so far has been Squarepusher. In some cases, he even plays a real live bass. But some of his stuff might be categorized as some sort of techno/fusion hybrid. As far as the whole electronica/techno scene goes, I think I lean more toward trip-house and ambient house. - --Jason, a big fan of emo-dub and folk-hop "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:07:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: Let the west coast tremble! I have purchased tickets to Portland, Oregon. I will reside in that fair state from October 14 to October 19. If any of you west coast fegs feel a sudden chill and a sense of foreboding, or an urge to create models of the Space Needle out of tinfoil, then you'll know I've arrived. n. all over the world p.s. Yes, I know the Space Needle is in Seattle. Jeez. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:11:43 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 JH3 wrote: > I never > knew anyone personally who wrote tunes over pre-existing lyrics. I'm trying to do that right now with some lyrics a friend of mine wrote. I can't think of anything more difficult. I don't think I'll ever finish. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:08:52 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Effective Songwriting Techniques Andrew D. Simchik wrote: > Let me elaborate. Maybe you'll tell me that some level > of instrumental skill is going to make this much easier. > I'm hoping I can write first and improve as I go, because > I'm not *totally* pathetic now. But that still leaves my > compositional skills. I have no idea where to begin. You can definitely write now and then just improve as you go. As Bono once said, "all you need is three chords and the truth." A lot of my best material was written when I had no idea what I was doing. Now that I've become a much better guitarist, I have trouble writing really good songs. This could be because 1) I'm now more concerned with the guitar part than I used to be, 2) it's harder to write melody to a more intricate guitar part, or 3) I don't use drugs quite as often. > I have no > lyrics and can't begin to write any that I can accept. > When I try to put melodies over my chords and riffs, > nothing I come up with sounds natural or original or > interesting. Well, personally, I don't think lyrics are that important. IMHO, the most important part of the song is the melody. That's what people pay attention to, it's where you find the hook in a song. No matter how great the lyrics and guitar are, if the melody sucks, the song's gonna suck. Of course, it is important to write lyrics that you're comfortable singing. The only tip I can really give you is to try and be completely honest. Don't always try to write a song that's "about something." Just start singing. There doesn't have to be a profound statement or story or anything. Just make sure you're always honest, which is not the easiest thing to do, by the way. > So what I'm asking is: when you write songs, where do > they begin? How do you start? Do you hum melodies > to yourself and then work them up into songs? Do you > start with lyrics and add music? Do you start with > chords or riffs or figures and improvise over them until > you get something? Do you have any suggestions about > how I could practice, and get the juices flowing, or > refine the skills, or whatever angle you want to take? I do all of those things. But most of the time, I just pick up my guitar and start playing. I've never really played guitar without singing. The very first time I picked one up, I instantly started singing to it. So, I start playing and singing. I just make shit up. Usually, I set the guitar part first, and then the melody. The lyrics come last. There's a million ways to write a song. Just come up with the system that works best for you. Also, let me recommend a book for you and anyone else that may be interested. I read this book a few months ago called "Zen Guitar," by Philip Toshio Sudo. It's a really quick read. It doesn't get into any guitar techniques. It's just a book of guitar philosophy basically. I really enjoyed it and it helped me remember why I started doing this in the first place. I think I got off track a bit in the past few years. I started recording a lot and became more concerned with the quantity of finished product than the quality of the actual songs. And it really shows on my last CD, which is pretty dull and boring. Anyway, my point is that this book kind of helped me get back on track. Now I've stopped recording for awhile and am concentrating on my writing. Well, hope some of this helps. Later Joel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:45:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, JH3 wrote: > For me, it was always both #1 and #3, but never #2. I'm not sure what #3 is, but your lack of #2 might explain your writer's block. Sorry. > I never knew anyone personally who wrote tunes over pre-existing > lyrics. (Elton John does that, I suppose, but I've never met the man.) The two half-songs that Michael Keefe and I half-wrote were done this way. We worked really well that way. I have some of the music we wrote and it's really good and the moods were easier to set in music once we knew what the words said the moods should be. This might be a really good week. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:46:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: mecha-streisand (two Very Important Questions) On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Aaron Mandel wrote: > - early 90s Seattle-area pop. the Spinanes, for instance; emotional, even > heartwarming lyrics with spare arrangements. Please don't call Portland "Seattle-area". Thanks. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:48:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Let the west coast tremble! On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Natalie Jacobs wrote: > I have purchased tickets to Portland, Oregon. I will reside in that fair > state from October 14 to October 19. It's only fair if you're not heterosexuals cohabitating out of wedlock. It's fair for everybody else. Did you know you'll be here on my birthday? Exciting! I expect a gift. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:01:48 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Effective Songwriting Techniques >As Bono once said, "all you need is three chords and the truth." And he has never lived this down, either. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:03:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: mecha-streisand (two Very Important Questions) On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Capuchin wrote: > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Aaron Mandel wrote: > > - early 90s Seattle-area pop. the Spinanes, for instance; emotional, even > > heartwarming lyrics with spare arrangements. > > Please don't call Portland "Seattle-area". Thanks. please take any geographical information i give as being approximate. i was actually thinking of Olympia, where the Spinanes aren't from either, but maybe i should stop while i'm behind. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:11:15 -0800 From: Eb Subject: incidentally... Ed Doxtater *rocks*, and you guys will have to work pretty hard to beat his "birthday present." ;) (Thanks, Ed.) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:37:05 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: More Songwriting One more thing: I don't know if this is how it works for everyone, but for me, inspiration comes in waves. And in order to catch the wave, you have to be in the water. And since you don't ever know when a wave is gonna come, you have to stay in the water...forever. Ross is right about writing good songs being a lot of hard work. But I don't think the hard work is actually in the writing of the good songs, but instead in the writing of the bad ones. It's hard work to stay in the water all the time, and pretty discouraging too. It sucks when you spend 3 months writing 25 shitty songs. I always start to wonder if I'll ever write another good song. But then, all of a sudden, I'll catch a wave and write great stuff for a week. And then it's back to shit for another 2-4 months. Oh yeah, and time of day is very important for many people. I write best after midnight. Billy Corgan likes to get up at 6 a.m. and write. So, you should think about that too. Okay, that was more than one thing. - --Joel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:24:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: Quasi-agreement >...god DAMN! GET the new Quasi album, Field Studies. I was an >enthusiastic fan of the other three Quasi albums, but this one's easily >the best. Gee, for once I agree with Eb, sort of. I'm reviewing Field Studies right now (I'm about halfway through) and I'm digging it - good tunes, good lyrics, good arrangements. I haven't heard anything else by Quasi to compare it with, but even on its own merits I'd probably give this 4 out of 5 stars - or, on the Eb scale, maybe 14 or 15/20. This is just a first impression, of course, but it might just stick. n. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:27:20 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > JH3 wrote: > > > I never > > knew anyone personally who wrote tunes over pre-existing lyrics. > > I'm trying to do that right now with some lyrics a friend of mine wrote. > I can't think of anything more difficult. I don't think I'll ever > finish. the problem i've generally had with people trying to get me to write music to their lyrics, is that the lyrics they give me are generally crap. joel speak heap big sense, even if we're polar opposites on lyrics -- i endorse the "all of the above, the more often the better" approach wholeheartedly. i'll add three things, one of which i disapprove of: 1. don't be afraid to cannibalize bits of mediocre songs to make better ones. i've had a really good result or two with a "hey, what if i sang the melody from 'something' over the chord progression from 'other', turning a verse that went nowhere into a bridge for something else, etc. 2. re lyrics: i've gotten a couple of good ones by deliberately writing out of my own perspective. like, maybe i'll see a couple fighting on the bus, and eavesdrop shamelessly, and work some of the argument into a song. okay, there's another half-thing 2.5: steal, steal, steal from the environment, which is not copyrighted, and yours for the plundering. sometimes (often) people will utter a phrase that just has a cool rhythm, or a neat image. you can use other words with the same rhythm that might make more sense -- songs about putting toner in the copier are not likely to be very exciting. or you could be gbv -- have they done a song about toner yet? beat them to the punch! 3. what i disapprove of: one thing that gets done is to take someone else's song and change it -- modulate the chord progression somewhere, invert the melody, change the rhythm etc. this usually seems like cheating, if not stealing to me -- but sometimes your subconscious may do it for you, and i'm a bit more lenient about that. like you're noodling around, and you come up with something cool, then you realize it's just a little bit too much like some old paul westerberg song, so you push it in a very un-paul westerberg like direction, to take a not-completely-random example. (it wound up on the scrap heap anyhow; don't bother scouring the feckless catalog for it.) also, some legitimate jazz compositions came out of expanding a bar or two of one of charlie parker's solos into a whole new song, and back in the baroque days people used to do variations on each other's themes all the time, so there is some precedent. and one more wee bit 3.75: i've gotten two good songs -- including the one that was played on whfs -- by basically setting nightmares to music. (these were both "cannibalize other bits" tunes as it happens; i had bits of what would eventually become two finished songs in my practice set for over three years before they gelled -- they were too good to ditch, but to weak to bring to the band). if you have interesting bad dreams it might work for you. dunno if it's common practice. oh yah, and 3.99 write/tape everything. otherwise you'll lose stuff you swear you'd never forget, and you will almost certainly regret it. if you've got it written down or on tape, you can go back and say, "no, it was crap after all"...or not. - -- d., who wishes he still knew that fast thing in g - - oh no, you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net - get yr pathos - - www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. = reviews - - www.fecklessbeast.com -- angst, guilt, fear, betrayal! = guitar pop ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:56:21 +1200 From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Mine usually begin in a shed just outside Duluth. >>So what I'm asking is: when you write songs, where do >>they begin? How do you start? Do you hum melodies >>to yourself and then work them up into songs? Do you >>start with lyrics and add music? Do you start with >>chords or riffs or figures and improvise over them until >>you get something? > >For me, it was always both #1 and #3, but never #2. I never >knew anyone personally who wrote tunes over pre-existing lyrics. >(Elton John does that, I suppose, but I've never met the man.) agreed, although I have myselkf used another version. I've taken a song I've heard and like the tune of (by another artist), sung words over it that are completely unlike the original (it works best if you don't know the original words!), then changed the tempo, rhythm, chord structure and melody. Surprisingly, it works really well.Even more surprisingly, they rare rarely recognisable from the original (anyone with Partial Rapture Theory think that "Celia II" sounds anything like Van Morrison's "Into the Mystic"???). One of my best slyrics ever started off with the melody to Brian Eno's "Golden Hours". Songs come in many different forms. I tend to agree with Paul Simon's comments that really good songs either take ten minutes or ten weeks to write. If they take you a couple of days, they never sound too good. Good songs either flow out of you complete, or they take a lot of cogitation, conscious and sub-conscious. As to where to find your own lyrics... when I stop and TRY to write lyrics, they turn out the same sort of crap all the time. But I carry a notebook and write down any weird comments that people say or I think or overhear. The last two songs I've written were based on a sign in a shop window ("Agents for Momo" - I really must change the title of that one!) and a silly comment that my partner Alice made to make me laugh when I was feeling depressed ("Tiny frogs with sticky feet are walking on your back". Don't ask). Anyone who has read the liner notes on my cassette will know that one of the songs on that started as an exercise in creative writing (write a story or song containing the line "they had managed to get the Japanese girl horizontal"). Another of the songs on that album was made up entirely of titles from short stories and novels. And another came to me complete in a dream. Basically, what I'm saying is, don't try to force it. Be guided by odd phrases you hear, rather than sitting down and saying I WILL write lyrics NOW. >Do you have any suggestions about >how I could practice, and get the juices flowing, or >refine the skills, or whatever angle you want to take? FWIW, several songwriters simply play their melodies over and over, singing whatever comes into their heads. After the first ten or so times through, some phrases will stick and sound like they belong there. Then again, these songwriters are often ones like Brian Eno, who produces very surreal lyrics. James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:24:46 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: Effective Songwriting Technique 101 dmw wrote: > the problem i've generally had with people trying to get me to write music > to their lyrics, is that the lyrics they give me are generally crap. Actually, this one friend of mine gave me some great lyrics. The problem for me is that by using her lyrics, the melody is limited to a certain rhythm, or at least a certain number of syllables. You just don't have as much freedom by doing it this way. > joel speak heap big sense, even if we're polar opposites on lyrics -- i > endorse the "all of the above, the more often the better" approach > wholeheartedly. i'll add three things, one of which i disapprove of: I don't understand this. > 1. don't be afraid to cannibalize bits of mediocre songs to make better > ones. Yes, definitely! I do this quite a bit. Even when a song just doesn't work, you may be able to use a part of it in something else 5 years from now. > sometimes (often) people will utter a phrase that just has a cool rhythm, > or a neat image. I carry a small notebook and pen with me for this purpose. I hear all kinds of cool phrases, especially at parties. At a really good party, I'll write down enough ideas for an entire album's worth of songs. Very little of this actually gets used. But it's a good way to generate ideas and then pick out what you really like. > 3. what i disapprove of: one thing that gets done is to take someone > else's song and change it -- modulate the chord progression somewhere, > invert the melody, change the rhythm etc. this usually seems like > cheating, if not stealing to me I disapprove of this as well. If it's an accident, that's okay. But deliberately doing this is just lazy and uncreative. > -- but sometimes your subconscious may do > it for you, and i'm a bit more lenient about that. like you're noodling > around, and you come up with something cool, then you realize it's just a > little bit too much like some old paul westerberg song I was once writing a really great song...then I realized I was writing Radiohead's "Creep." Oh well. > oh yah, and 3.99 write/tape everything. otherwise you'll lose stuff you > swear you'd never forget, and you will almost certainly regret it. if > you've got it written down or on tape, you can go back and say, "no, it > was crap after all"...or not. This is extremely important. I've got Cakewalk Pro Audio on my PC and it's really easy to just open and record. So anytime I start writing something, I record a clip of it really quickly. I've probably got 50 "song pieces" recorded. I'm hoping that at least 4 or 5 songs will come out of all that. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:34:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Ross Overbury Subject: Re: More Songwriting Since Joel's quoted me already, I thought I should contribute. On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > One more thing: > > I don't know if this is how it works for everyone, but for me, > inspiration comes in waves. And in order to catch the wave, you have to > be in the water. And since you don't ever know when a wave is gonna > come, you have to stay in the water...forever. > > Ross is right about writing good songs being a lot of hard work. > But I > don't think the hard work is actually in the writing of the good songs, > but instead in the writing of the bad ones. Even though I didn't say that, it's not too far from my stock answer. Sometimes songs come to me like half-forgotten dreams. As I think about them, they "come back" to me. When I can't "remember" how it goes, I embellish and that never seems as good. Sometimes I'll be able to find the "real" part after embellishing awhile. "Remembering" is always easiest. I think I've said this before on this list, or maybe it was off-list, since I write about as much to individual fegs as I do to the list. Anyway. I'd say that lately I'm about 50/50 with songs that are built around letting my fingers wander on the guitar, and songs that are conceived in my head then worked out on guitar as close to the original concept as I can manage. The songs written in my head usually include chords, not just melody. It's up to me to learn how to play them. Near-hits - -- the stuff that gets close, but doesn't feel like I remember it -- can often be used as bridge material. I never start with words, but words or just vowel sounds seem to attach themselves to the melody sometimes, and I try to leave them in if I "remember" them enough. Words seem to be the hardest for me too. I think the problem is knowing just enough to recognise when the lyrics are bad, but not quite enough to make them good enough. If I were wiser than I am, I'd say that we should just crank them out and not worry as much. Robyn's got a distinct advantage because of the large number of songs he's written. Nobody's likely to define Robyn on a song or two anymore. Instead I stall, waiting for that song that's going to make you realise what I can do, all at once. That's stupid. It's also hard to overcome. > Oh yeah, and time of day is very important for many people. I write > best after midnight. Night person here, with a day job, 2 dogs and 3 kids, a wife who works the evening shift and not many songs lately. Having a band or (working) multitracking equipment has helped me a lot in the past. Sometimes I need to record ideas, then step back from them and approach them from some new angle. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #357 *******************************