From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #324 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, August 24 1999 Volume 08 : Number 324 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: les boys [Jeff Dwarf ] too rich ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: Re: Pet Sounds [Paul Christian Glenn ] RE: cream tangerine ["Bachman, Michael" ] Re: Les Boys [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: Rerun of the Depressed Gap Kids (contains no Y2K information). [delia] beatles vs. beach boys on pay per view [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Re: Les Boys [Eb ] Gap [Joel Mullins ] King Elvis [Joel Mullins ] Re: cream tangerine [Terrence M Marks ] Re: Les Boys [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: MMT ["JH3" ] more Pet Sounds [Eb ] Weird Al Tour Dates! [Tom Clark ] Re: MMT [Eb ] re: music geekdom 102A [Eb ] Re: King Elvis [Terrence M Marks ] Re: King Elvis [hal brandt ] Re: King Elvis [Joel Mullins ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:43:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Jeff Dwarf Subject: RE: les boys "Thomas, Ferris" wrote: > Marcy incited: >> I must protest this ridiculous attempt to suggest that >> the Beach Boys (excuse me while I cough) can, in any way, >> hold a candle to the Beatles. > > Amen, sister. now now. in terms of production and record craft, the beach boys (at least during the pet sounds heyday) could hold a candle to the beatles. can't say i have much use for it otherwise (i find Pet Sounds more admirably than enjoyable, but that's more than i can say for Dark Side of the Moon), but in terms of sound composition it's a grand achievement. === "America's greatest natural resource, still, to this day, is the moron" --Martin Mull __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:50:19 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: too rich i'm sitting here in the library trying to keep from busting a gut wide fucking open. channel 5 news is doing a spot about "should Playboy be allowed in public libraries?" just a cameraman and a reporter, but it's like they think they're making the next kubrick movie or something. changing locales. doing *multiple* retakes. choreographing each shot ("i want to get a shot of you walking around this corner." and then "i want you to appear when you say the word 'playboy'." "okay!") i think they've moved outside now. i sort of want to watch the news tonight, just to see the final mix. but (and laugh if you must, feggies) i don't think even *my* life is pathetic enough to warrant watching a local newscast. KEN "But some people would say this isn't a first amendment issue. It's about 'family values'." THE KENSTER [yes, this was actually in her script.] _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:53:31 -0600 From: Paul Christian Glenn Subject: Re: Re: Pet Sounds At 8/24/99 1:40:00 PM, you wrote: >hey, the cure have lots of happy songs. like "friday i'm in >love" and, errm, eh, well, the one on the last album that >sounded just like "Friday i'm in love" and ummmm the mariachi >pastiche one on the last album. "Doing the Unstuck" from _Wish_ is pretty damn happy. :) Paul Christian Glenn | "Besides being complicated, trance@radiks.net | reality, in my experience, http://x-real.firinn.org | is usually odd." -C.S. Lewis Currently Reading: "The Tempest" by William Shakespeare ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:52:59 -0400 From: "Bachman, Michael" Subject: RE: cream tangerine I can think of a few that would be at my most overrated list: Elton John Madonna The Rolling Stones One of my tests on music is, Is it timeless? Do you find yourself listening to it more than when you did 10 years ago? I know, we all change. I have Loves "Forever Changes" and it makes it on to my cd player once a year at best. I still listen to "Underwater Moonlight" on a continuing basis, but not "Crocodiles" by Echo and the Bunnyman which also came out in 1980 and was highly thought of when it first came out. The Go-Betweens are my perfect example of a band whose music doesn't age. The songs are timeless and I play them more now than I did in the late 80's. Michael - -----Original Message----- From: JH3 [mailto:jh3@alternatech.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 4:36 PM To: Feggo My Ego Subject: Re: cream tangerine >> what are we to make of a guy that calls the beatles >> the second-most "over-rated musicians of all times"? >but who are the first-most-overrated? Elvis Presley, according to this Scaruffi guy. Just don't tell J Branscombe, or he'll have a fit! Personally, I think it all just goes back to the pointlessness of making Top (whatever) lists, but don't get me started on THAT. - -JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:01:21 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: MMT Tom: >Last night I witnessed Phase II of the new GAP commercials. This time >they're all sitting around in grey shirts and corduroy pants singing >"Mellow Yellow". Fucking horrendous. Yeah, that one really *sucks*. And so many of the other Gap ads, I love. That one with the go-go dancing...oh man, I could watch that FOREVER. Totally fascinates me, for some reason. JH3: >Yeah, why IS that? Magical Mystery Tour is my favorite Beatles >album - maybe not a hands-down, nothing-comes-close favorite, >but definitely my favorite. I mean, it's got "I Am the Walrus," >"Blue Jay Way," "Your Mother Should Know"... but the critics >keep ranking it in the middle of the pack at best, sometimes >lower. Well... 1. It has "Blue Jay Way" and "Your Mother Should Know" on it. ;) Not to mention "Flying." "Blue Jay Way" and "Flying" would probably make my bottom dozen Beatles tracks. Pretty dismal. 2. The piecemeal nature of the album...it's a bunch of songs tossed together, which were recorded over several distinct sessions. And it wasn't even an album originally, but an EP. This sorta throws some conceptual dissonance into the package. 3. There's a certain faction of people (not including me) who trash "Hello Goodbye" as one of the ultimate examples of idiotic Paul lyrics. "Your Mother Should Know" is great fodder for McCartney-bashers, as well. 4. "Sgt. Pepper" and "Magical Mystery Tour" are sort of a matched set, and thus MMT is forever perceived as "Pepper's" runt little brother. Which seems apt enough. It's kinda hard for me to understand how someone could rank MMT over Sgt. Pepper, frankly. I can see someone ranking The White Album over Pepper, or Abbey Road, or Rubber Soul, or Revolver...but not MMT. I definitely rank "I Am the Walrus" as one of my tiptop favorite Beatles tracks, however. Eb, who really grimaces when people solemnly intone "Amen, sister"/"Amen, brother" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:09:39 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Les Boys In a message dated 8/24/99 10:00:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, tanter@tarleton.edu writes: << I love fegmaniax very much and I cherish the time we all spend together, but I must protest this ridiculous attempt to suggest that the Beach Boys (excuse me while I cough) can, in any way, hold a candle to the Beatles. It goes without saying that the Beatles have effected the world in ways the Beach Boys could only dream about. >> Well, I don't think very many people would say that the Beach Boys were as important to the course of music as the Beatles. But that's certainly a separate issue from saying that one of their albums ("Pet Sounds") is as good as, or better than, some Beatles albums. I mean, "Pet Sounds," "SMiLE," and "Endless Summer" (a greatest hits disc) are pretty much the only Beach Boys I own, whereas I have every regular Beatles CD (plus the red 2-CD 1962-66 collection). So, despite my love for "Pet Sounds," I wouldn't come close to saying that I even *like* the Beach Boys as much as the Beatles. But "Pet Sounds" easily ranks up there with the best of the Beatles albums. Marcy would not agree, and Joel could only accept this on faith. But I'd guess a bunch of other Fegs would agree, as would many (tens of thousands? more?!) music listeners and rock critics throughout the course of time. Oh, but you could also just ask Paul McCartney. He'd tell you that it's one of the greatest albums ever made and that it very much inspired the Beatles to strive that much further creatively whilst concocting "Sgt. Pepper's." So, in an indirect way, the Beach Boys *were* partly responsible for altering the path of music history. :-) I wouldn't want to try to change someone's opinions about which band they like better, but I'm happy to do what I can to at least facilitate a better understanding for someone else's appreciation for an album like "Pet Sounds." - -----Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:31:40 -0700 (PDT) From: delia winthorpe Subject: Re: Rerun of the Depressed Gap Kids (contains no Y2K information). > >oh yeah, and if you look closely, in the background there's a curly > >haired chick wearing nothing but a pair of oversized boxers! well, ok. but can somebody please explain to me the whole media war between old navy and gap to sell - vests! aren't they both owned by the same parent company???! i know, i know, it's postmodern infotainment stuff, but i'm just so sick of it. in fact, i'm really sick of it. d __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:36:02 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: beatles vs. beach boys on pay per view I just spent about four hours wrestling with my cat. While Dusty had me in the "hammerlock of death" and Mills Lane was just getting to "two," I asked her what she thought about comparing a band you have grown to like to one that, say, you thought were kind of stupid and grew to think were also lame. She loosened her grip on me and I threw my legs up over my head, an old trick a bulemic girl taught me, and managed a bit of a reversal, but we were both still battling for control. She said, "Oh, you probably mean the Go-go's vs. Debbie Gibson." She said as we both rose to our feet. "No." I lunged for her, but she jumped over me. "Oasis vs. Whitney Houston?" She spryly rebounded off the ropes and collided with me and we both went down. "Not this time." "Blue Oyster Cult vs. Quiet Riot?" We were both still a little dazed from our collision, but we were trying to find a good way to pin the other with the least amount of effort. I can sometimes read her mind, and I knew I had to be careful. Last time we did this, she hid a staple gun somewhere on her person (okay, cat) and used it to staple me to the tarp. "No, silly. I mean The Beatles vs. The Beach Boys." "Oh, man, I wouldn't touch that one with a thirty-foot pole if I were you." She grabbed my left leg and started chewing on it. "Whaddya mean?" She was quietly availing herself of my skeletal and muscular systems in that region of my body and not answering my queries. I gambled and attempted a 760 degree wham-o-matic toast wallaby ginseng fudpucker and took control. "Well, she said, "most of the recent global wars have been started with arguments about these two bands. You don't seriously think that Bosnia and Rwanda were caused by ethnic hatred alone, do you? Look, since the early sixties the spark that blew the powder keg has always been 'Brian Wilson can't tie his shoes because he is mentally incapable of doing so,' or 'John Lennon couldn't have gone to the bathroom without Paul McCartney holding his dick.' Or, something like that." I was going to argue the point, but she started repeatedly driving my head into one of the corner posts. She told me that wars were not caused by sports fans because sports fans were able to get out their agressions and had at least some compassion and understanding of people who could be in an unfortunate position of choosing a less godly team. With music fans, it is like religion. The taste issues are so unfathomable to others, that they create fear and hatred. "So," she said calmly, "which one of the bands did you think was lame?" "The Beach Boys." With that she grabbed me by the arm, spun me about six times and sent me flying into section 34 of the upper loge seats. You see, opinions are not just for having. They are for fighting about. Multiple asides: 1. I generally agree with Marcy, but I believe that most popular bands are overrated. We call everybody a genius who can sell a bazillion records. I much preferred the Who, and the Kinks during the sixties and would probably prefer hearing much of their catalogs. I really believe that songwriting and musicianship are are very separate skills, and many things which make the songs memorable have more to do with production than either. 2. I must respect the opinions of my pals on this list which seem undefendable and unfathomable, yet seem so absolute. It is difficult enough thing for me to do to listen to all of Pet Sounds, let alone understand how others have formed religions about it. It could truly be that, frightening as it may sound, Brian Wilson's music is just too deep for me. 3. I have a smart cat, but she cheats at wrestling. 4. For those of you who are 'doing blueberry jam,' are you shooting, snorting, or smoking it? Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:41:25 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Les Boys Michael K.: > Well, I don't think very many people would say that the Beach Boys were >as important to the course of music as the Beatles. But that's certainly a >separate issue from saying that one of their albums ("Pet Sounds") is as good >as, or better than, some Beatles albums. >...despite my love for "Pet Sounds," I wouldn't come close to >saying that I even *like* the Beach Boys as much as the Beatles. > But "Pet Sounds" easily ranks up there with the best of the Beatles >albums. *Exactly* my thoughts. And Marcy, I'm going to excuse your anti-Beach Boys rant because I figure you're loopy with estrogen. ;) > Oh, but you could also just ask Paul McCartney. He'd tell you that it's >one of the greatest albums ever made and that it very much inspired the >Beatles to strive that much further creatively whilst concocting "Sgt. >Pepper's." So, in an indirect way, the Beach Boys *were* partly responsible >for altering the path of music history. :-) Getting back to someone's question about WHY Pet Sounds is so musically unique, one of the things which is most unique is Brian Wilson's heavy use of non-tonic bass notes and inverted chords. This is one of the things which specifically influenced McCartney (see "Getting Better," "She's Leaving Home," etc.). As a matter of fact, I saw a TV interview with Elton John quite recently, and he cited the same thing (he played the intro to "Someone Saved My Life Tonight" on piano, and explained that he got the idea for using the fifth note as the bass from Brian Wilson, and how this added an extra layer of drama to the riff). Except for maybe certain baroque composers, there's no melodist in history who relies so heavily on non-tonic bass notes to communicate his musical ideas. For instance, instead of playing a C under a C major chord, Brian is likely to play a third (E), a fifth (G) or a seventh (Bb). (I must confess that I've observed an unexplainable,ferocious passion for the major/seventh combination in my own tastes, not only in Wilson's music but in various other artists who followed.) It's hard to do these tricks justice in words, but this extra harmonic vocabulary really opens up a whole new landscape. I mean, when I started figuring out Brian Wilson melodies on keyboard, it really changed how I perceived music in general. No exaggeration. It's like learning a second language. You can even "translate" other songs into Brian's language by changing around the chords and rhythm, and get lots of interesting results. You can do this *somewhat* with the Beatles (especially their early trick of resolving chord progressions with an augmented fifth, or their emphasis on seventh-chords in the later material), but not to nearly the same degree. Anyway...pardon my geekery. Eb7/Db ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:38:22 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Gap Eb wrote: > Yeah, that one really *sucks*. And so many of the other Gap ads, I love. > That one with the go-go dancing...oh man, I could watch that FOREVER. > Totally fascinates me, for some reason. It's the redhead. - --Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:34:45 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: King Elvis JH3 wrote: > Elvis Presley, according to this Scaruffi guy. Just don't tell > J Branscombe, or he'll have a fit! I agree that Elvis is pretty overrated. He was a great singer but he didn't write his own material and wasn't much of a guitarist. For me, Buddy Holly is the epitome of 50's rock. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:07:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: cream tangerine On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Livia Drusilla wrote: > but it's such a sweet little song. Yeah, but so are "Glasshouse Green, Splinter Red", "Tales of Flossie Fillet" and "Hi, It's Been a Long Time". Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:29:02 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Les Boys In a message dated 8/24/99 2:44:48 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gondola@deltanet.com writes: << Except for maybe certain baroque composers, there's no melodist in history who relies so heavily on non-tonic bass notes to communicate his musical ideas. For instance, instead of playing a C under a C major chord, Brian is likely to play a third (E), a fifth (G) or a seventh (Bb). (I must confess that I've observed an unexplainable,ferocious passion for the major/seventh combination in my own tastes, not only in Wilson's music but in various other artists who followed.) >> Who are some fo these various other artists? And what do you think it is about this that would be more engaging than if, say, the guitarist played a seventh chord to begin with, and the bass player just followed along on the tonic? - ------Michael K., prdon my geekiness and for further provoking same quality in Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:28:47 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: MMT Eb writes: >It's kinda hard for me to understand how someone could rank MMT over Sgt. >Pepper, frankly. I can see someone ranking The White Album over Pepper, or >Abbey Road, or Rubber Soul, or Revolver...but not MMT. I remember Frank Black, back when he was Black Francis, saying that the Pixies were a band that made "pizzas, not cookies." * Presumably he meant that he wanted their albums to be cohesive, maybe even conceptual, rather than just collections of songs. (Of course, in his case it was more of a convenient excuse to prevent Kim Deal from geting more lead vocals.) But you said it yourself, Eb, when you referred the "piecemeal nature" of MMT. My question is, what the hell is wrong with cookies? Don't you LIKE cookies? Personally, I loooove cookies. Especially those gooey chocolate chip ones with macadamia nuts. So maybe my problem isn't so much "why don't more people think MMT is the best Beatles album" as it is "why don't more people like cookies"? It's almost as though an album has to have some sort of unifying concept to be thought of as "great," and I just think that's wrong. I'm not saying concepts are inherently bad (though admittedly I couldn't care less about most of them); I just don't think they should be some sort of requirement for "greatness." And call me crazy if you want, but I can't think of a single tune on Sgt. Pepper that I like better than *any* of the songs on MMT (other than "Flying," which is more of a segue than anything else), except for "A Day in the Life" and "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds." (I also failed to note earlier that on nearly all CD versions they actually have added "Strawberry Fields" and "Penny Lane," two of the greatest non-XTC cookies ever baked!) >Eb, who really grimaces when people solemnly intone "Amen, sister"/ "Amen, brother" Amen to that! - -John H. * Sorry Joel, you probably thought I'd come up with that one myself. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:40:20 -0800 From: Eb Subject: more Pet Sounds Two other little points: 1. Of course, Brian Wilson also had (has?) a fantastic knack for arranging. And this is where the post-Pet Sounds albums come up short -- his talents in this area kinda fell apart, after Pet Sounds and Smile/Smiley Smile. Some of the later tracks are equally sophisticated in a harmonic/melodic way, but the production sounds half-finished and indifferent. For instance, he has a simply *gorgeous* flowing ballad called "My Sweet Love" (I forget which album, at the moment), which might've been almost as legendary as "God Only Knows." But the production is really shaky, so the track is missing that splashy, widescreen appeal. Similarly, I think his self-titled solo album from 1988 would've gone a lot farther, if he had used more real instruments and less stale '80s synthesizers. On a sheer melodic level, it was fantastic. (Can you BELIEVE that's out of print? Sheesh.) 2. Another Pet Sounds signature move: Wilson's use of drums. Rather than just use the drums to keep a steady beat, he uses drums more like orchestral timpani (indeed, he used actual timpani on numerous occasions). The drum parts have significant holes in their timekeeping, leaving the *keyboard* to keep the rhythm instead. The drums only punctuate the transitions between measures, on many of Wilson's more "baroque" compositions. It's a very different feel from most pop songs (though admittedly, Phil Spector previously used drums in a similar way). In other words.... The drum part might go like this: | QUARTER-NOTE, quarter-rest, eighth-rest, QUARTER-NOTE EIGHTH-NOTE | QUARTER-NOTE, quarter-rest, eighth-rest, QUARTER-NOTE, EIGHTH-NOTE | etc. Or in layman's terms, "BUM.....bum ba BUM.....bum ba BUM...." And notice that the second "bum" of each measure actually comes on the up beat, *between* the quarter notes played by the keyboard. So it's the keyboard which supplies the central pulse. Or, here's another one he likes: | QUARTER-NOTE, quarter-rest, eighth-rest, EIGHTH-NOTE, TRIPLET | QUARTER-NOTE, quarter-rest, eighth-rest, EIGHTH-NOTE, TRIPLET | etc. Or in layman's terms, "BUM.....ba da-da-da BUM.....ba da-da-da BUM...." Anyway, I think I'll take a drive over to the zoo now, and feed Livia. Eb7/Db, Ab/C, Abm/B, Eb/Bb (repeat if necessary) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:41:37 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Weird Al Tour Dates! Weird Al Yankovic Aug. 24 Sacramento, CA California State Fair Aug. 26 Boise, ID Western Idaho Fair Aug. 27 Lancaster, CA Antelope Valley Fair Aug. 28 Kellogg, ID Silver Mountain Amphitheatre Aug. 29 Salem, OR Oregon State Fair/Expo Center Aug. 30 Monroe, WA Evergreen State Fair Aug. 31 Kelseyville, CA Konocti Field Amphitheatre Well Goddamn if I haven't died and gone to Heaven! What could be better than a day of funnel cakes and pig manure topped off with a Weird Al concert! - -tom "another double macchiato, sir?" the tomster ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:00:52 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: MMT JH3: >So maybe my problem isn't so much "why don't more people think MMT is >the best Beatles album" as it is "why don't more people like cookies"? It's >almost as though an album has to have some sort of unifying concept to be >thought of as "great," and I just think that's wrong. I'm not saying concepts >are inherently bad (though admittedly I couldn't care less about most of >them); I just don't think they should be some sort of requirement for >"greatness." > >And call me crazy if you want, but I can't think of a single tune on Sgt. >Pepper that I like better than *any* of the songs on MMT (other than >"Flying," which is more of a segue than anything else), except for "A >Day in the Life" and "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds." You craaazy. ;) I will say this: I probably like "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "I Am the Walrus" better than any Sgt. Pepper track. However, MMT just comes up way short in the consistency/flow category. As for the "cookie" issue, hey, I was just defending The White Album, which is a box of cookies even more so than MMT. I just think the cookies taste better on The White Album (too much frosting and sprinkles used on the MMT batch), and because The White Album is a jumbo-size box, it doesn't matter as much that a few cookies are missing a raisin or two. Eb, calling your metaphor and raisin you PS My favorite solo Hitchcock album is I Often Dream of Trains, which is essentially a box of cookies as well, though in this case, at least the cookies are baked in the same oven (um...I think I'm ceasing to make sense at this point). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:01:09 -0800 From: Eb Subject: re: music geekdom 102A Michael: ><< Except for maybe certain baroque composers, there's no melodist in history > who relies so heavily on non-tonic bass notes to communicate his musical > ideas. For instance, instead of playing a C under a C major chord, Brian is > likely to play a third (E), a fifth (G) or a seventh (Bb). (I must confess > that I've observed an unexplainable,ferocious passion for the major/seventh > combination in my own tastes, not only in Wilson's music but in various > other artists who followed.) >> > > Who are some of these various other artists? Well, I can't think of any other artists who use it as a central motif. It usually comes down to individual songs. The much-discussed Odessey & Oracle uses this device a lot. That's a good example. (Cue the dainty-psychedelia fan from Florida.) Several months ago, I heard a Billy Joel song called "Leningrad" for the first time. I'm not a Joel fan, but something about that song got under my skin. After I rattled through it on the piano, I soon realized: oh jeez, more chords with bass-sevenths. Sucked in again. Sometimes, playing a song yourself takes the mystique out of it. Elvis Costello and Squeeze tinker around with this, certainly. Yep, Elton John. The Raspberries. "I Think I Love You" (heh). Genesis. Ziggy-era Bowie. Mott the Hoople. Middle-period Kinks. Pete Townshend. Burt Bacharach, though his biggest twists are more in the area of rhythm, phrasing and sheer *quantity* of chords. Procol Harum? Philip Glass? Yes? Paul Simon? Eric Matthews? Jason Falkner? XTC? Led Zeppelin? Traffic? John Cale? I suspect you might even find this in certain Marillion songs, if you dig beneath the Journey-borrowed synthesizers. ;) (Don't make me hunt for specific songs...too much work.) It's definitely not Robyn Hitchcock's realm. Not Dylan's, either. And you can't find it much in the Beatles/Lennon/McCartney catalog, though a few Lennon solo ballads ("Jealous Guy," for instance) dabble with it. >And what do you think it >is about this that would be more engaging than if, say, the guitarist played >a seventh chord to begin with, and the bass player just followed along on the >tonic? Well, like Elton John said, somehow there's more "drama." There's an inherent harmonic tension, because the bass is tugging the chord in a different direction, instead of just happily following the chord around on a leash. And it kinda sets up a whole baroque, "chromatic" approach to bass notes...like instead of just bouncing between C/C and F/F chords, you might go between C/Bb and F/A or F/C. The bass steps down (from Bb to A) or up (from Bb to C) a note, and the chord is dictated by some relationship to that new note. For whatever reason, I'm often turned on by music based around this sort of principle. I like that "descending/ascending" feel in chords. Think "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down," for instance. Eb np: "Born to Run," Brianwilsonized ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:13:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: King Elvis On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > For me, Buddy Holly is the epitome of 50's rock. Buddy Holly is just a wispy, emasculated imitation of Elvis. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:34:01 -0600 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: King Elvis Terrence M Marks wrote: > Buddy Holly is just a wispy, emasculated imitation of Elvis. At least Buddy wrote his own stuff. And going down in a plane crash is truly tragic as opposed to the pathetic 'E' dying on the toilet with a percodan buzz. /hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:31:11 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: King Elvis Terrence M Marks wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > > > For me, Buddy Holly is the epitome of 50's rock. > > Buddy Holly is just a wispy, emasculated imitation of Elvis. Exactly what did Elvis do that was so great? He could sing and shake his hips. Big fucking deal! Buddy Holly was a true musician. However, he wasn't really sexy like Elvis. Elvis was no different than Ricky Martin or any of these boy-groups around these days. Someone wrote a song and he sang it while all the young girls looked at his crotch. What a huge accomplishment! Joel ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #324 *******************************