From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #289 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, August 4 1999 Volume 08 : Number 289 Today's Subjects: ----------------- I posit that I am in limbo [Vivien Lyon ] Blair Witch Ripoff? ["Jason R. Thornton" ] Re: I posit that you are a giant cantaloupe who has come to devour the earth [Capuchin ] Re: Largo & other stuff [Eb ] Re: responses [Ken Ostrander ] Re: I posit that you are a giant cantaloupe who has come to d [Michael Wo] Re: this year's Private Parts [Eb ] Re: this year's Private Parts [Joel Mullins ] Robyn in L.A. ["Marc Holden" ] my position on words like POSIT! [ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com] Re: my position on words like POSIT! [Capuchin ] Attention Cope fans [steve ] Re: DE-posit, posit-IVE, COM-positE, etc. [michelle wiener ] Re: this year's Private Parts ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: UK gigs ["Tony Blackman" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:59:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: I posit that I am in limbo - --- ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com wrote: > then I have to tell them the embarassing truth- that > I'm still technically > an undergrad at the ripe old age of 28 :). Hey, whenever someone asks me where I went to college, I get very defensive and tell them that the only reason I went to Illinois State was because the theater program was so good. And then I realize that once again I don't know which is the more embarrassing admission- Theater school or lame state school? Theater school or lame state school? So now I don't even mention the theater thing and stick with my major in philosophy. Yeah, I still look like a lightweight, but not a self-absorbed, nauseating actor lightweight. Vivien _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 14:10:01 -0700 From: "Jason R. Thornton" Subject: Blair Witch Ripoff? I don't remember which Feg was talking about seeing an indie movie that was supposed to be a LOT like "The Blair Witch Project" (this was awhile back), but I saw this blurb on the Internet Movie Database today: >DID BLAIR WITCH RIP OFF IDEAS FROM ANOTHER INDIE > FILM? > >Blair Witch Project, The (1999) has "haunting similarities" to Last >Broadcast, The (1998), another low-budget independent film, which was >completed in August, 1997, the New York Post observed today >(Tuesday). The newspaper quoted Broadcast's Lance Weiler and Stefan >Avalos as saying that the Blair Witch team had told them that they had >seen their movie "and that it was pretty wild, the similarities between the >two." Commented the Post: "Like the characters in their movie the Blair >Witch creators couldn't be reached for comment yesterday." Of course, the source for this story *is* the Post. - --Jason "just miles from the nearest Mexican God" Thornton ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:28:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: I posit that you are a giant cantaloupe who has come to devour the earth On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, michelle wiener wrote: > have i mentioned that i'm from minnesota, where complaining is considered healthy > exercise? It has been positted that I bitch in my sleep. > np. the donnas. really, really loud. Sounds fun. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 16:25:47 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: I posit that you are a giant cantaloupe who has come to devour the earth ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com wrote: > I have to tell them the embarassing truth- that I'm still technically > an undergrad at the ripe old age of 28 :). Damn! You've got me beat, Susan. I'm still an undergrad, but I'm only 25...soon to be 26. Most of my friends graduated years ago and some have already finished master's degrees and are now working on PhDs. But we are the truly dedicated people, the ones who will spend the greater part of a decade on one degree. But I guess I'm not as dedicated as you, Susan. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:44:04 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: promise me this -- take me tonight Andrew: >> I was so hoping that you would approve. >> OK, let's stick with the >> rimshot/titillation/soundbite ending, then. > >"Fellatio"? Huh? I don't see your point here. >Like perhaps the godawful pat way Dr. Bill and >Mrs. Dr. Bill wrapped it all up in a nice "here's >the moral of the story" package and, oh, by the way, >all this talk of infidelity is so kinky! It's got >me so hot! Let's run home and screw! You mean >*those* conventional details of the closing minutes? Heh heh. Well-put. But watch it...you may throw Hal into another indignant fit. You gotta love *every* aspect of the film, or he gets very upset. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:46:22 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Largo & other stuff >So, did any LA Feg make it to Largo, Rhino Records, or >the Palace? I've been wondering the same thing. Surprising, not to see any reviews. Eb, who would've gone to the Palace if not for...never mind ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:42:40 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: responses > personally, i think the best critics hate EVERYTHING with a >passion. i was never able to ingest people like siskel and ebert >because they were just so friendly. it's just the opposite for me. most of the time i couldn't stand siskel because he just picked the movies apart, while ebert would talk about what he liked about them. >And the reason it worked for me was *because* Nicolas Cage's character >was a "quirky joke"...a "symbol"...an "archetype." He was just plain >hilarious in that snake skin jacket (or whatever skin it was). "this snakeskin jacket symbolizes my individuality and belief in personal freedom." >Instead of >> empathizing with the characters, you're much more likely to lurk outside >> the film and marvel at the director's "vision." And of course, I haven't >> even brought up the brutal, cold-blooded violence yet. the difference comes with the acting. who can deny the power of dennis hopper's performance in blue velvet or john hurt's in elephant man? more times than not, the characters do get lost in the film. wild at heart is rife with memorable characters as well; but lost highway is pretty flacid in comparison. that said, if the violence punctuates such a limp triskit; it seems so much more gratuitous than if you are drawn into the character. >> An "interesting" film isn't necessarily the same thing as a "good" >> film, and Lynch hasn't been getting past "interesting" with me, lately. good point; but not very interesting. >I found it rather tame, myself (the sex, anyway). Maybe >on one level, Kubrick was trying to tell us something....like, >if all you really want to see is steamy sex, don't sit in a >theater - go home and f*ck. :) but... >"Horror movies turn chicks on faster than porno." the success of blair witch project is finally explained. EDDIE "everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey" TEWS np. GbV do the collapse ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 21:39:26 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: Re: I posit that you are a giant cantaloupe who has come to d >i'm just frustrated. i want whatever work i produce to be >accessible and i try to resist as much as possible using this >kind of language... Really? Wow... Personally, I feel just the opposite way. I feel no composition of mine is complete without invoking several Words of Power from the following list: dialectic, cachet, banal, polemic, motif, didactic, dichotomy, approbation, visceral, etc. It's so much easier to defend your ideas from dissenting opinions when you can simply accuse people of not being able to understand what you're saying. And furthermore, having words like these on your side carries so much wonderful intimidation value -- like walking into a room flanked by two big goons named "Vinnie" and "Nunzio". In addition to vocabulary, the skillful deployment of punctuation, footnotes, and obscure latin abbreviations ensure that your prose will be a tangled spiderweb from which your intellectual opponents will never emerge. And victory shall be yours. >...the use of which has recently struck me as nothing more than >academic dick-waving... Oh... Um, nevermind. - -Michael Wolfe np: Element of Light -- Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:13:08 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: this year's Private Parts Eddie: >eb, this is hogshit. you didn't like the movie. fine. but the movie has >NOT been reviewed as a "guilty pleasure," or a chance for critics to "'let >their hair down.'" go back and read the manifold favorable reviews. what >do they almost universally say? that the film is *surprisingly >intelligent*. Ex-actly! There's a big difference between "intelligent" and "surprisingly intelligent" -- the second comment factors in lowered expectations. Lots of reviewers praise it, because they're measuring it against the yardstick of other crass, sophomoric, vulgar, summer-type comedies. And if you're an older critic who knows little about South Park except that it once featured talking doody (you think that perspective is uncommon?), of *course* the film is "surprisingly intelligent." And compared to its peers in the above realm, it is a good film. "Surprisingly" good, and "surprisingly" intelligent. But take it *out* of the poopoo-humor genre, and it pales considerably. Even compared with The Simpsons, it's swill. Is *anything* with an air of giddy, subversive anarchy automatically brilliant, Eddie? (Mojo Nixon, even? Sheeesh.) Let's just see how many "Best of the Year" lists South Park ends up on. Let's see how many people are still renting the film, in five years. Let's see how many of these "brilliant" songs get Oscar nominations. Oughta be a lock, since animated films always grab the Best Song nods, right? Speaking of the songs, hit "STOP" after track#6 on the soundtrack album and you really won't miss much. >i know you're of the opinion that your opinion is the only one that could >possibly be valid when it comes to movies 'n' music. Nope, not at all. Don't be ridiculous. Those of you who say stuff like this can't possibly realize how many real-life differences of opinion I regularly encounter with other zealous, knowledgeable music fans. One of my very best local friends has only about 15% common taste with me...we good-naturedly needle each other all the time. He teases me for not liking enough hip-hop/dance stuff, I tease him for not liking enough songwriter-based music. We're still close friends. I courteously discuss differing views with others on the phone, practically every day. I know what I like, and I also know what I *should* like but just don't connect with on a personal level (a lot of classic soul/R&B stuff, for instance). And I'm sorry, but I just don't file South Park in the latter category. No guilt here. >but don't you think >the fact that so many people on this list love the movie so much, and have >made such eloquent assertions of same might, just might, indicate that >you're out of step on this one? No, in this particular case, I believe time will prove me right. I see it as a here-today, pop-culture novelty film, far better than Beavis & Butthead Do America, but no more likely to endure. All the topical references in the film (Conan, Saddam, Baldwins, Winona, etc.) will age very quickly. In particular, I think the undue stress on the Saddam plotline gravely dooms the film's lifespan. And I haven't really read too much "eloquence," in any case. Mostly, people just saying "I laughed my ass off," "I lost it when Saddam pulled out the second dildo" and things like that. People thought Ren & Stimpy was really hip and clever, a few years ago. Who gives a damn about it now? This sort of thing just doesn't have much shelflife. That's what makes The Simpsons so remarkable -- it HAS endured. It and The Flintstones stand almost unique, when it comes to half-hour cartoons. Do you think South Park will still be on in nine years? The buzz is that the show has *already* slipped, noticeably. People say this to me all the time, when the subject comes up. The clock is ticking. Hey, I never said that I hated the film. I said that I got several good laughs out of it, early on when the storyline was still confined to the town/school. If forced to make a binary choice, I might even vote a marginal "thumbs up" on it. But one of the best films of the DECADE, Eddie? Worth compiling a TRANSCRIPT of? Gawd, have some perspective. Final aside: I've only seen, oh, about 15 of the South Park television episodes (and yeah, I do watch it whenever I can), and I've seen at least three or four which I enjoyed a lot more than the film. So to me, the film was disappointing, even on its own terms. (My favorite South Park episodes, out of the ones I've seen? Probably the one where Cartman and a starving Ethopian boy changed places, and the one in which Mr. Mackey temporarily went hippie and had a "deflated head.") So, there you go. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 17:40:05 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: this year's Private Parts Eb wrote: > Let's just see how many "Best of the Year" lists South Park ends up on. > Let's see how many people are still renting the film, in five years. Let's > see how many of these "brilliant" songs get Oscar nominations. Oughta be a > lock, since animated films always grab the Best Song nods, right? Speaking > of the songs, hit "STOP" after track#6 on the soundtrack album and you > really won't miss much. I haven't seen South Park and probably won't until video. But Eb, your reasoning here is seriously flawed. Just because the movie may not end up on a lot of best of year lists or get any Oscar nominations does not mean that the movie isn't great. Hell, I could make a long list of hilarious movies that didn't get any of this recognition, but that doesn't make them any less funny. By the way, how many CDs has Rufus Wainwright sold? How many Grammys was he nominated for? One, right? And he didn't even win. How many best of year lists was his album on? Probably a few but I didn't see it on a lot. How many people have actually heard of Rufus Wainwright? Not too many. Well then, Rufus Wainwright must not be any good, right?...okay, so maybe your reasoning isn't flawed. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:14:21 -0700 From: "Marc Holden" Subject: Robyn in L.A. It was another great Robyn weekend in L.A. He did a very short = radio show from Starbucks on Melrose (4 songs--I Feel Beautiful, = Neitche's Way, Vegetation and Dimes, Viva Sea-Tac--if I recall = correctly) on Saturday at noon.=20 Later, he appeared at the Largo playing a short set before Grant = Lee Phillips' set. My memory of this is a bit sketchy (the drive from = Phoenix had me a bit groggy by the evening, and the Harps probably = didn't help), so I'll just say the evening went roughly like this: Short set by Robyn (with Tim Keegan joining him) including-- Ghost Ship a new song (something funny like "I Don't Really Like = You") Jewels For Sophia a Dylan song or two Sleeping With Your Devil Mask Oceanside=20 Later, during Grant Lee Phillips' set, Robyn joined him for "I = Feel Beautiful" and the set drifted into the usual improv/jam. They = created 5 songs about pigeons ( Haunted Pigeon, Haunted Carrier Pigeon, = Pigeon Lips, (?), Pigeon Pot Pie) Sunday started with the Rhino in-store (the best set of the weekend, I = think). Tim played on most of these also. Songs included: Mexican God Cheese Alarm (a "traditional song" about a knight meeting a young = boy) She Doesn't Exist Wind Cries Mary Jewels for Sophia Madonna of the Wasps Arms of Love Viva Sea-Tac Sleeping With Your Devil Mask Oceanside Then the final set of the weekend, the MABD show (with Tim on several = songs): Gene Hackman Cheese Alarm Viva Sea-Tac Madonna of the Wasps Queen Elvis I Feel Beautiful (with Grant Lee Phillips) Jewels for Sophia Freeze (solo, electric with some major guitar frenzy = going on) Robyn was very well-received by the MABD crowd. I thought that IQU = was okay (I liked the way they used the neck of the guitar to control = the theramin). I liked Sonic Boom, but then again I listen to Lou Reed's = "Metal Machine Music" more often than is probably healthy (I have it on = vinyl and CD). Sebadoh were alright, but didn't totally blow me away. = The Flaming Lips were really disappointing--they would have put me to = sleep if their set had been longer. =20 =20 Again, these set lists are off the top of my head, so they are not = really accurate, just kind of a sampling of the weekend. I can't wait = for the fall tour. Later, Marc np--You & Oblivion ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:15:24 -0600 From: ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com Subject: my position on words like POSIT! >i refuse to be reduced to the size of my...er, ego. and thanks for the >>offer, but i just ate. I only posited. I never said this position had no flaws :). >i didn't mean that these were difficult words to understand, although >going >back through my previous message, the context suggests as much. That's really what I was reacting to. Sorry I mistook your meaning. >i just think they're silly words. they both seem incomplete, like they >need >more letters. How many more letters would "posit" need? It would sound even more ridiculous if it were extended. I would "position" that Robyn Hitchcock lyrics are often profound? That sounds a lot worse. >and there are countless other perfectly good words to use that don't sound >>as pompous as "reify." Eye of the beholder, methinks. Though that's not one I'd use in conversation and expect people to understand, it does have a time and place. >i'm just frustrated. i want whatever work i produce to be accessible and >i >try to resist as much as possible using this kind of language, the use >of >which has recently struck me as nothing more than academic dick-waving >(ex: That's really not a goal of mine in writing. I don't mean that to sound arrogant. In fact, it's the opposite. I generally assume whoever's reading has a good grasp of the language (or owns a dictionary), and feel that it would sort of be the equivalent of "writing down" to not use a word or a cultural reference that some quotient of people might not be immediately familiar with. Obviously there are cases where you do want to watch your vocabulary, say, if you are writing to a child. And if I look at what's on the page and feel it isn't clear enough, then certainly, I rethink what I've -said-, but "something that repeatedly shows up throughout the novel in order to highlight one of the author's main points" IS less elegant and precise than "leitmotif". So I continue to use leitmotif, heuristic, weltschmerz, postmodern, bricolage, deconstruction, tax deduction, city inspectors, bill collectors mod clothes in demand, population out of hand, suicide, too many bills,hippies moving to the hills, people all over the world are shouting end the war. And I let the band play on. Love on ya, Susan 'Momus? That guy is sinister!' Marilyn Manson, as reported by Haig Bedrossian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:27:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: my position on words like POSIT! On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com wrote: > I don't mean that to sound arrogant. In fact, it's the opposite. I > generally assume whoever's reading has a good grasp of the language (or > owns a dictionary), and feel that it would sort of be the equivalent of > "writing down" to not use a word or a cultural reference that some quotient > of people might not be immediately familiar with. Obviously there are cases > where you do want to watch your vocabulary, say, if you are writing to a > child. And if I look at what's on the page and feel it isn't clear enough, > then certainly, I rethink what I've -said-, but "something that repeatedly > shows up throughout the novel in order to highlight one of the author's > main points" IS less elegant and precise than "leitmotif". > > So I continue to use leitmotif, heuristic, weltschmerz, postmodern, > bricolage, deconstruction, tax deduction, city inspectors, bill collectors > mod clothes in demand, population out of hand, suicide, too many > bills,hippies moving to the hills, people all over the world are shouting > end the war. And I let the band play on. I'm not quite with ya. Could ya dumb it down a little? - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:48:40 -0500 From: steve Subject: Attention Cope fans I bet the Arch Drude himself will be hanging out in Cornwall next Wednesday, August 11. I hope that the UK Fegs can give us a report. - - Steve _______________ We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! - Andy Partridge ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:06:12 -0400 From: michelle wiener Subject: Re: DE-posit, posit-IVE, COM-positE, etc. > I don't mean that to sound arrogant. In fact, it's the opposite. I > generally assume whoever's reading has a good grasp of the language (or > owns a dictionary), and feel that it would sort of be the equivalent of > "writing down" to not use a word or a cultural reference that some quotient > of people might not be immediately familiar with. Obviously there are cases > where you do want to watch your vocabulary, say, if you are writing to a > child. And if I look at what's on the page and feel it isn't clear enough, > then certainly, I rethink what I've -said-, but "something that repeatedly > shows up throughout the novel in order to highlight one of the author's > main points" IS less elegant and precise than "leitmotif". > i don't see "accessible" as the equivalent of "writing down." there is a difference between using "elegant and precise" language that the college-educated adult or equivalent will grasp, and bandying about words that sound really really good but are rather empty (yes, that's subjective). the words you listed are not empty words. in fact, out of that list, i SUBMIT (*grin*) that "bricolage" is the only one that would catch certain people off guard, which is not to say you should never use it, because it's nice when one's vocabulary is occasionally upgraded. i'm not trying to be language police. my original complaint originated out of a desire to not ever have to decode sentences like: "...positing the Other as a subterfugal antihegemonic entity thus reifies the methodological presupposition of the self-proximate subjugated individual Subject..." which i just made up and means nothing (maybe...hmmmm) other than you really can rearrange the words of gayatri spivak's "can the subaltern speak" and not really change that much. ok, that was a joke. i think spivak is great. and maybe we're all stupid over here, but that article counts as an entire work on dissertation reading lists. so i hear. it's not on mine. i'm also not trying to name drop. i was looking for material that would support my statements. for cryin' out loud, use the language that you're comfortable with. fun fact: "posit" appears exactly five times in my master's thesis. michelle np. "the abandoned brain"--honest! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:07:11 -0800 From: Eb Subject: reap SOUTH AFRICA'S MAHLATHINI DIES Simon Nkabinde, the South African vocalist known as Mahlathini, the Lion of Soweto, died Friday (July 27) in Soweto of complications from diabetes. Mahlathini, with the female trio the Mahotella Queens, and a band that included Kwela great West Nkosi as music director, producer, sax player, and penny whistle virtuoso, helped establish the pop version of tradition township call and response music. It set the style for the groaners and queens style of mbaqanga, popular in South Africa during the mid-'60s and early '70s. - ---- Awwww...I'm sure glad that I finally saw him live a couple of years ago. :( Whatta voice. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 22:55:33 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: this year's Private Parts no, you're incorrect. they're measuring it against the yardstick of whether they thought it was intelligent or not. and they did. because it is. that they were surprised by its intelligence doesn't in any way qualify its intelligence. or general effectiveness, for that matter. admittedly, i don't see very many movies these days. but it's been quite some time since i've been this smitten with a movie. in truth, all movies in recent memory pale in comparison to it. i'm going to see it again before i see either Eyes Wide Shut or Blair Witch Project a *first* time. all i can say is that i like what i like. i don't make conscious decisions to become enamored of certain types of art. i laughed my ass off in the theater. i bootlegged the movie and can't stop listening to the tape. i find myself singing the songs all the day long. (funny aside. i was singing the brian boitano song at work the other day, and of course belted out the line, "brian boitano doesn't take shit from anybody!" at the top of my lungs. it's now the cook's favorite saying. he was saying it to people at his other job, and they apparently thought he'd gone batty.) i will be interested to see, no doubt about it. if it doesn't get a screenplay nomination, as well as several song nominations, it will have been robbed. but i won't be too surprised. but of course, how many nominations did Barton Fink get, for example? two, if i remember right. and didn't win either. does that mean the movie sucked? i was just looking, longingly, at the soundtrack today. fuckin' $17.99! what is the world coming to? but they're not what makes the movie funny! you could throw anyone in those roles, and the movie's still hilarious. it probably has. but i don't think irreversibly. last week's episode, while admittedly not very funny, was one of the strangest half hours i've seen this side of Twin Peaks. i'm interested to see what they come up with over the next little while. at any rate, even if its glory days are behind it, i can't see how this proves that the movie isn't funny. do you think i'd have done it if it wasn't worth it to me? it took a fuck long time to do, and was a major pain in the ass. and it's gotten quite a positive response, if i may say. and, yes, i suspect that it will make my top ten for the decade. (by the way, did y'all see that Spin's top 90 of the '90's has IN THE AEROPLANE OVER THE SEA at #88? well, the kind of scary thing is that they quote mangum saying he might not make another record for a decade.) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:49:05 +0000 From: "Tony Blackman" Subject: Re: UK gigs Toby said: > Oh, and is anyone else going to the London or Cambridge Robyn gigs? Anyone > tried to get tickets yet? I'm currently planning on going to Wavendon, London, Winchester, Oxford and Birmingham. Cambridge is just that little bit too far for midweek. We've got tickets for London, they've been released already and I expect I'll buy tickets for Ronnie Scott's in advance but I expect to get into the others on the door on the night.... Tony. P.S. My copy of JfS arrived last week courtesy of Amazon, I like it but I wish he hadn't added that intro to 'Cheese Alarm'. Any news on whether the UK release will have the same track listing when it's eventually released? P.P.S. UK readers - I've got a spare CD copy of Queen Elvis, anyone want to do a swap for anything interesting? ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #289 *******************************