From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #255 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, July 17 1999 Volume 08 : Number 255 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: various spewage [Christopher Gross ] more mp3 [Bayard ] Re: speaking of foul spew... [Joel Mullins ] Re: speaking of foul spew... [Eb ] gone almost as long as eb [dmw ] summertime, dogs, Wavendon ["jbranscombe@compuserve.com" ] Do mind if I smoke? No, do you mind if I fart? [Eric Loehr ] Re: speaking of foul spew... ["John B. Jones" ] I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [Eric Loe] Re: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy [Eric] Re: speaking of foul spew... [Joel Mullins ] RIP?? [Eb ] Re: RIP?? [Miles Goosens ] re: smoking ["Russ Reynolds" ] Re: RIP?? [Eb ] Re: speaking of foul spew... [steve ] Re: speaking of foul spew... ["Capitalism Blows" ] RE: RIP?? ["Thomas, Ferris" ] Re: RIP?? [S Dwarf ] Re: speaking of foul spew... [Joel Mullins ] Re: speaking of foul spew... [Joel Mullins ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 02:44:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: various spewage On Fri, 16 Jul 1999, Eb wrote: > Over the weekend, I'll probably return to a local theater to see both Eyes > Wide Shut and The Blair Witch Project. The latter looks scarier than shit, > mannn. I've just returned from a midnight showing of The Blair Witch Project, and yes, it is scarier than shit. Yes, indeedy.... But I can't say any of the things I want to say about this movie without venturing into spoiler territory, so I'll leave it at that. Oh, one thing -- if you're one of those people who gets motion sickness from hand-held camera work, you'd better take some Dramamine first. - --Chris (still creeped out, but also glad to hear he isn't the only one on the list who hasn't heard JfS yet) ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 03:11:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: more mp3 hi everyone, you don't realize how lucky you are. there is a whole pile of fegband mp3's at the glass hotel, just waiting for you! http://158.72.105.122/gh/fish_gloss.htm Big tremendous thanks to the excellent and talented bands who sent me songs for the compilation, and likewise to Terrence for the vision. If you note any problem with the mp3's or the links, let me know. If you can help in an mp3 "beat the robyn boots" campaign, let me know. And if you know ANY way I can get some mp3.com stock when they IPO next week, I'll give you free robyn stuff for life. =b ps. Joel, I saw Bill Maher on larry king tonight and he said almost exactly what you did. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 03:08:56 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... Eb wrote: > Well, at the very least, it reflects your inability to keep your brain/body > properly occupied. Maybe you could just carry around some tiddlywinks or > jacks, instead? Or simply suck your thumb? After all, smoking is basically > just an extension of the latter, eh? A simple suggestion from a non-smoker. Since you don't smoke, you can't possibly understand. Jacks would not make a good substitute. And what do you mean about "my inability to keep [my] brain/body occupied?" I don't smoke because I'm bored or because I have nothing on my mind. In fact, I keep myself very occupied. > We're talking about lifestyle choices here, not occasional drinks/puffs. > Anyway, my drinking volume is notoriously negligible. I'm not sure if I've > had a drink yet this year...mayyybe. I just don't remember. That's too bad. > I > can even come home from clubs not smelling so horrible that I'm compelled > to wash my clothes the next morning. Hell, everyone has to make sacrifices. I don't think the fact that you smell bad when you get home from a club is a very good reason to outlaw smoking in a club. Deal with it and quit complaining. Having to wash your clothes is not the end of the world. > >Smoking is taboo in public. > > "Taboo" is overstating the case. I don't think that's an overstatement at all. Your reaction to smokers is proof that it is taboo to some people. > Nice criteria you have. Do you measure everything by how compatible with > smoking it is? No. I measure everything by comfort. I like to be comfortable. And having the freedom to smoke is a part of being comfortable for me. So is being able to drink beer, cross my legs, yawn, curse, and many other things. > Which Hitchcock album makes the best background music for > smoking, anyway? I couldn't guess. You and Oblivion. - --Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 01:32:53 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... The face-forker returned: >A simple suggestion from a non-smoker. Since you don't smoke, you can't >possibly understand. Grooooooan! ...must not compare smoking with Christianity...must not compare smoking with Christianity....) >Jacks would not make a good substitute. And what >do you mean about "my inability to keep [my] brain/body occupied?" I >don't smoke because I'm bored or because I have nothing on my mind. Yeah, yeah. How many times I've heard smokers say one reason they smoke is because they feel uncomfortable without something to keep their hands busy...and the oral-fixation angle is too obvious to require any elaboration. I even know the feeling, to a degree. When I'm in a club/party with no drink or cigarette in my hand, I do feel a bit conspicuous. But it's just not worrisome enough to me, to warrant adopting some feeble social talisman. >> >Smoking is taboo in public. >> >> "Taboo" is overstating the case. > >I don't think that's an overstatement at all. Your reaction to smokers >is proof that it is taboo to some people. I don't think it's "taboo." I just think it's the ultimate in pointless, self-destructive idiocy. And yes, I do have some smoking friends, despite these feelings. >> Nice criteria you have. Do you measure everything by how compatible with >> smoking it is? > >No. I measure everything by comfort. That's just as silly, practically. Eb (now aren't you guys glad I didn't enter the religion thread? ;)) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 08:27:55 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: gone almost as long as eb Livia on books: > and how the fuck could they do best novels of all > time and leave out jane austen? i think i'll go throw > up now or something. *swoon* livia, wilt thou marry me? ...seems to me i heard that list was more-or-less a hoax, anyhow. Mystery Flat q'd: > PPS Remember how Mike Douglas used to say "Good NIGHT!" when he was > surprised/amazed? I just never figured that colloquialism out. Have you > ever heard anyone else say that? i remember this as a notable feature of the _Tom Swift_ books that i grew up on. perhaps it's meant as a stand in for "goddamn?" ...wow, y'all had a whole religion thread. scary. and no mention of "sleeping knights!?" odd. ...ok, i skimmed most of it. weirdest thing to me was the use of "person" to refer to a deity. different definition of person from mine, that's for sure. auster's* _timbuktu_ was indeed more-or-less written from the point of view of a dog. so were chunks of matt ruff's (arf, arf!) _fool on the hill_ which i also recently read. didn't richard adams (he of _watership down_) write a book from a dog's perspective? and also kidpseudofic classic _the incredible journey_ dept. of disgusting self-promotion: anyone geographically co-located or sufficiently motivated is strongly encouraged to come see feckless beast (that'd be my musical ensemble) thursday 5 august at washington dc's velvet lounge. we've got mess of new material and a few months of woodshedding have, i think you'll find, improved us dramatically. and in just a couple hours i'm going back into the studio to do final mixes on the first two songs from our upcoming e.p. release thingy; thursday night's sessions were a blast. i'm finally going to have a recording of some of our tunes that i've got no need to embarrassed about. yours in austen always, - -- d. n.p. chainsuck _kindly stop for me_ n.r. doyle _valley of fear_ * i'd say i started reading paul auster because his name looks a lot like jane austen, but that'd be a lie. - - "seventeen!" cried the humbug, always first with the wrong answer. - - oh no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net dmw@mwmw.com - - get yr pathos:www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:56:07 -0400 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: summertime, dogs, Wavendon Thanks for all the Summertime stuff, people. Richard Adams' canine creation is called The Plague Dogs. About a couple of pooches on the run from a research establishment (I think. I read it about 20 years ago). Olaf Stapledon's novel Sirius is about a man in a dog's body. Very good, though again I read it ages ago. My vote for best impersonation of a dog on record goes to George 'Bongo Joe' Coleman on his track Innocent Little Doggy. His only album is exraordinary. A must for any Wildman Fischer fans. I see there are a few about. He play's a customized oil drum (not as tuneful as a Caribbean steel drum but idiosyncratic to the max) and he whistles. I'm a big fan of whistling. And he can't really sing. In fact one of his tracks is called I Wish I Could Sing. He used to busk in Houston in much they same way that Fischer did in L.A. Wavendon is, or was connected to Johnny Dankworth and Cleo Laine. The venue is in converted stables on their land. They have a mini jazz festival every year and run music camps. I was in production of As You Like It there, because I went to school with the Dankworths' daughter. jmbc ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:10:34 -0600 From: "Edward Doxtator" Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #254 Oh, boy. I've been back on the list for four days and already there's a discussion about religion, and Eb and Joel are fighting about smoking. For what little differmints it makes: I grew up in a very small town in western Nebraska, where there were some thirty churches (for a community of 5,000). When it came out that my parents didn't go to church, everyone in town would bristle. Even worse, my mom, a PK (preacher's kid), didn't go to church... well, what WAS the world coming to? Adults used to stop me in the street when I was little and ask me, "How come your parents don't go to church?" I always told them I didn't know. Because I didn't. Eventually, I asked my mom enough times why we didn't go to church, and she said there wasn't a Presbyterian church in town which was untrue. But this sat reasonably well with the prying eyes, and I got no more quizzing in the street, or in school, or at the supermarket. it wasn't until I got into High School that she actually told me why she wasn't interested. My grandfather was a Presbyterian (I don't even know if that's spelled right, so you know how much the church means to me) minister, and because of that, my mom was press-ganged into all the required church activities-- cleaning the church, setting up for sermons, funerals, bake sales, going to people's houses for dinner, etc. She hated it and swore she'd never enter a church again as soon as she got out of the house. Sure enough, she ended up ditching her faith about the time she got married to my dad when she was 17. And true to her word, my sister and I had no religious enforcement whatsoever. When it came to religious instruction, she said, "I figure you and your sister would figure it out eventually." I think the one thing I've gotten from the whole lack of religious training thing is a healthy dose of religious tolerance. I'm sorry, but to me, the majority of the religions say pretty much the same thing. My real problem is the whole "If you don't do it our way you're going to end up in a cauldron of your own entrails," thing. Wotta load of hooey. Entrails indeed. Religious leaders want to frighten people, treat them like children, go right ahead. People who swallow that sort of egregious lie, please go right ahead. However, don't expect me to follow you. I have been to church a couple of times in my life, just to see what the story was. I saw a lot of bad things-- spite, disrespect, ignorance, willful stupidity. But I also saw a great number of folks got some benefit out of it. And I really don't think it had a whole lot to do with listening to the sermon and singing number 392. I think it had to do with the sense of community. Now this is an observation based on growing up in a town of 5,000 and that town being the biggest around for some sixty miles, but I do believe that a lot of people who attened the services were expressing not just their faith, but their community. I do believe that for some people, the social aspect of worship, the ability to express community, and say I BELONG HERE, may be more important than a lot of mouldy old blood 'n' guts Bible stories. So, for me, religion is a social, not a spiritual thing. And there's nothing wrong with that. But if I don't belong to your social club, and don't wish to belong to your social club, get off my back. The smoking thing... I have to say this. I hate smoking. Fucking hate hate hate it. My mom's been a smoker for 40-odd years, and it hasn't done her a bit of good. My grandfather was a heavy smoker. Four packs a day sometimes. He had emphysema so bad that when he stood, he got winded. He had an oxygen bottle everywhere he went. He died when I was very young, and all I can remember of him is his deep rumbling voice that was tinged with smoker's cough and phlegm. I think it's self-destructive, I think it's stupid. I'll never smoke. I caught a lot of second-hand smoke when I was a kid, being locked in the back of the car with my sister during long drives to New York state during winter, when it's too cold out to open the windows. But I'm on Joel's side. It's his business. He should be allowed to smoke whereever he wants (within reason). I've been out with a group of people, and I've been the only non-smoker in the bunch. But I found that smoke smell washes out of clothes, skin, hair. I don't allow anyone to smoke in the house because it DOES get into everything. I don't like the lingering odor. While it's true that there's a health hazard from second-hand smoke, well, unless you're spending all of your time in smoke-filled environments, your lungs DO clean themselves out. And if you find the smoke noxious, don't go where people smoke. How hard is that? If you gotta go where people smoke for whatever reason, be cool about it. Get in, do the business, and get out. Quit complaining. We all have to put up with problems in the world. Sometimes respecting other people's rights means NOT doing something, rather than saying "You can't do that." And I'm sorry Eb, but you live in LA. The air quality there is still among the worst in the nation. I'm not sure if your monoxide levels would be worse for being in a smoke-filled club for an evening, or simply walking around the block. We're all so oftensensitive in this country. No wonder the rest of the world has a good laugh at us. (And sticking a fork in one's face is allowed. It's actually a form of single-tine poking, called body piercing. And best of all, you get to leave the fork in for everyone to see.) But that's me. Anyway, gotta get cookin' on Napoleon Et Chicken, my contribution to tonight's feggy dinner. It's nice to be back. - -Doc, who misses the shoegazer bands ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:15:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Loehr Subject: Do mind if I smoke? No, do you mind if I fart? I had to do it... Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 03:08:56 -0700 From: Joel Mullins To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... Eb wrote: > Well, at the very least, it reflects your inability to keep your brain/body > properly occupied. Maybe you could just carry around some tiddlywinks or > jacks, instead? Or simply suck your thumb? After all, farting is basically > just an extension of the latter, eh? A simple suggestion from a non-farter. Since you don't fart, you can't possibly understand. Jacks would not make a good substitute. And what do you mean about "my inability to keep [my] brain/body occupied?" I don't fart because I'm bored or because I have nothing on my mind. In fact, I keep myself very occupied. > We're talking about lifestyle choices here, not occasional drinks/puffs. > Anyway, my drinking volume is notoriously negligible. I'm not sure if I've > had a drink yet this year...mayyybe. I just don't remember. That's too bad. > I > can even come home from clubs not smelling so horrible that I'm compelled > to wash my clothes the next morning. Hell, everyone has to make sacrifices. I don't think the fact that you smell bad when you get home from a club is a very good reason to outlaw farting in a club. Deal with it and quit complaining. Having to wash your clothes is not the end of the world. > >farting is taboo in public. > > "Taboo" is overstating the case. I don't think that's an overstatement at all. Your reaction to farters is proof that it is taboo to some people. > Nice criteria you have. Do you measure everything by how compatible with > farting it is? No. I measure everything by comfort. I like to be comfortable. And having the freedom to fart is a part of being comfortable for me. So is being able to drink beer, cross my legs, yawn, curse, and many other things. > Which Hitchcock album makes the best background music for > farting, anyway? I couldn't guess. You and Oblivion. - --Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:13:32 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... Eb wrote: > and the oral-fixation angle is too obvious to require any > elaboration. Well, I won't argue with this. I'm sure there's some oral-fixation involved. But I don't see the point in analysing it to death. > >No. I measure everything by comfort. > > That's just as silly, practically. So you don't measure things by comfort? Isn't the whole reason you dislike smoking in public because it makes you uncomfortable for a variety of reasons? Smoke in your face makes you uncomfortable. Fine. And we're getting off the real issue here. You definitely have the right to your opinion that smoking is idiotic. But that doesn't mean you or the government has the right to tell me what I can and can't do. I don't have a problem with these new no-smoking laws in restaurants and malls and schools, etc. I understand that smoke bothers some people and I respect that. If you and I were driving around in my truck, I wouldn't smoke as I drive like I usually do because I know it bothers you. But you said you were in favor of *any* anti-smoking legislation, short of the death penalty. And that's one of the most selfish things I've heard in a long time. If I smoke in my own home, it has no effect on you. If I smoke on a street corner and it's bothering you, move. And no-smoking laws in bars is just ridiculous. Sounds like comfort is extremely important to Eb. Joel ------------------------------ Date: 17 Jul 1999 10:37:32 -0700 From: "John B. Jones" Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... >Sounds like comfort is extremely important to Eb. This coming from a guy who is obsessing about being able to sneak a flask into his local venue. =jbj= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:40:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Loehr Subject: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy No, this message isn't me blowing more smoke or passing gas; I found the Waits on Mike Douglas message in the Raindogs archives. Here's the URL (it's pretty long and I'm having trouble cutting and pasting it into an e-mail without lots of re-formatting): http://listserv.hea.ie/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9907&L=raindogs&P=R10932 Eric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:43:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Loehr Subject: Re: I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy On Sat, 17 Jul 1999, Eric Loehr wrote: > Here's the URL (it's pretty long and I'm having trouble cutting and > pasting it into an e-mail without lots of re-formatting): Uh, the message is too long, that is, not the URL.... E-gas ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:35:43 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... John B. Jones wrote: > > >Sounds like comfort is extremely important to Eb. > > This coming from a guy who is obsessing about being able to sneak a flask > into his local venue. Hey, I never said that comfort wasn't important to me. It is. But I'm not trying to change the laws so I can legally take my flask into the local venue. I'll work around it. Or I won't. But you won't hear me complain about either way. And "obsessing" is a rather strong word. I asked a friend a simple question. And that's obsessesion? Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:15:27 -0800 From: Eb Subject: RIP?? JFK Jr.? Wow.... Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 13:30:36 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: RIP?? At 11:15 AM 7/17/99 -0800, Eb wrote: >JFK Jr.? Wow.... Today has been one long WTF? moment for me. I mean, live national coverage? For the probable death of the idiot son of a former president? You can bet that if Lucy Johnson fell off a yacht or Amy Carter disappeared in the rainforest, it'd be in the last segment of the regular newscasts and on p. 17 of the newspapers the next day. Damn, I sound like Nixon, blathering on about how the media loves those damn Kennedys. later, Miles, who expects to see a Lady Di/JFK Jr. assassination conspiracy theory pop up any second now ====================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:36:09 -0700 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: re: smoking >Why not just walk around all day, determinedly >poking yourself in the face with a fork? To me, that's no more >ludicrous/idiotic than smoking oddly enough that's what me 'n' the wife do after we've had a round in the bedroom. We keep a stash of forks in the night stand. - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:40:26 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: RIP?? >Miles, >who expects to see >a Lady Di/JFK Jr. >assassination conspiracy >theory pop up any second now Naaah...but I bet it was the same guy who drowned Jeff Buckley and shot Brandon Lee. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:10:56 -0500 From: steve Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... Joel Mullins: >I don't have a problem with these new no-smoking laws in restaurants and >malls and schools, etc. What are the smoking laws in Austin? And is Stubb's considered a restaurant? Zelda? - - Steve _______________ We're all Jesus, Buddha, and the Wizard of Oz! - Andy Partridge ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:47:18 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... still trying to get over eb's dismissal of South Park (*nothing* in the "back half" to like? not even the "what is this, tv kiddie hour, where we all sit around and like barney the dinosaur's fucking pussy? this is real life, with consequences you take to the grave!" mole?) and being besieged by the terminal next to me here in the library blaring out, "thanks for checking me out on britney-dot-com!" every minute or so, as this little girl navigates around her site. yeah, i'm *still* listening to South Park. over and over. it's a mania! haven't even listened to JEWELS since probably monday. there are a coupla problems here. one is the hypocrisy/moralising. 99% (literally) of all drug deaths are caused by cigarettes and alcohol. yet they're the two that are legal. (along with the prescription drugs, of course.) why? money. politics. another is the cig manufacturers' *intentional* (it's in their internal documents) holding back of information regarding the health effects of smoking. another is all the toxic (literally) shit added to cigarettes. it's not even the tobacco that's so bad for you. it's the fucking additives. here again, manufacturers have been much less than forthright. another is marketing specifically to children. another is using the u.s. government (here we go with the corporate welfare again) to pry open overseas markets. at the same time that it bleats on and on about the horros of "hard" drugs, the government threatens a trade war with china if it doesn't accept cigarette sales and advertising. (or, if we wanted to go back a ways, governments engage in *incendiary* wars to force other countries to open their markets to our poison.) i'm not saying that any form of regualtion short of the death penalty would be appropriate. but i am saying that if tobacco and alcohol are legal, so should be any other drug. and that they shouldn't be subsidised up the cornhole. and that *all* "ingredients" must be listed. and that if other countries don't want our crap, it's their business. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 16:26:15 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: RIP?? It's just that Faustian bargain 'ole Joe Patrick struck back in the 20's coming due. - -f. > -----Original Message----- > From: Eb [mailto:gondola@deltanet.com] > Sent: Saturday, July 17, 1999 3:40 PM > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: Re: RIP?? > > > >Miles, > >who expects to see > >a Lady Di/JFK Jr. > >assassination conspiracy > >theory pop up any second now > > Naaah...but I bet it was the same guy who drowned Jeff > Buckley and shot > Brandon Lee. > > Eb > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:22:34 -0400 (EDT) From: S Dwarf Subject: Re: RIP?? Eb wrote: >Miles: >>who expects to see a Lady Di/JFK Jr. >>assassination conspiracy theory pop up any second >>now > > Naaah...but I bet it was the same guy who drowned > Jeff Buckley and shot Brandon Lee. no. it was courtney love.... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:14:17 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... steve wrote: > What are the smoking laws in Austin? And is Stubb's considered a > restaurant? In Austin, there is a city ordinance against smoking in restaurants. But you can smoke in the bars in restaurants. And lots of places have patios which in Texas can be used almost year round. Stubb's is a Bar-B-Q place but I'm sure there are sections where you can smoke. I've never been there, but I think that the bands play in some outside courtyard. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:34:55 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: speaking of foul spew... Capitalism Blows wrote: > 99% (literally) of all drug deaths are > caused by cigarettes and alcohol. This is not a good reason to make cigarettes illegal. If I want to kill myself by smoking, I should have the right to do that. > another is the cig manufacturers' *intentional* (it's in their internal > documents) holding back of information regarding the health effects of > smoking. Oh, come on. I don't care what they hold back. Anyone who is not aware of the dangers of smoking has either been in a coma for the last twenty years or is too stupid to even light a cigarette in the first place. You can't go one day in this country without hearing about the evils of cigarettes, alcohol, and other drugs. > another is all the toxic (literally) shit added to cigarettes. it's not > even the tobacco that's so bad for you. it's the fucking additives. Again, everyone already knows this and it's not a good reason to outlaw cigarettes. > another is marketing specifically to children. So I assume you think that a 16 year old kid is too immature to make a decision about whether or not to smoke. If that's truly the case, then why the fuck are we giving them driver's licenses? A shitload of children don't even live long enough to die from smoking because of some immature 16 year old's reckless driving. In fact, auto accidents is the leading cause of death among teenagers. > another is using the u.s. government (here we go with the corporate welfare > again) to pry open overseas markets. I don't know anything about this. > but i am saying that if tobacco and alcohol are legal, so > should be any other drug. I definitely agree with this, especially as far as marijuana is concerned. I'm not sure about crack and things like that. That seems a little excessive, but I'm willing to listen to arguments and consider it. Also, I don't think you can lump alcohol and cigarettes in the same category. My smoking doesn't put anyone at risk except me. But if I down a bottle of scotch and then drive home, I'm putting all kinds of people in danger. > and that they shouldn't be subsidised up the > cornhole. and that *all* "ingredients" must be listed. and that if other > countries don't want our crap, it's their business. This all seems reasonable. - --Joel ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #255 *******************************