From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #248 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, July 14 1999 Volume 08 : Number 248 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Kinky Kubrik [Ken Ostrander ] Bookfinder ["Sumiko Keay" ] Fwd: More Robyn Info [Griffith Davies ] read, stink, shun ["jbranscombe@compuserve.com" ] God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... [DDerosa5@aol.com] PS I hate Britts [DDerosa5@aol.com] Re: Kinky Kubrik [Capuchin ] Re: God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... [Tom Clark ] Re: Distinction [Joel Mullins ] Re: read, stink, shun [Joel Mullins ] Re: God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... [Joel Mullins ] Re: God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... ["Capitalism B] Re: blair witch vs. bell witch ["D B" ] Cater to Your Egoyan [was: blair witch vs. bell witch] [Miles Goosens ] Fwd: (yet) more US dates ["chris franz" ] Re: http://158.72.105.122/gh/ephemera/Default.htm [David Librik ] some future releases [Joel Mullins ] NYC fegs, DC fegs, out all night, chasing girl-ies... [lj lindhurst ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:57:34 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: Kinky Kubrik >Has anybody seen the Producer's cut of Brazil? >I've always wondered how good it is. I'm one who >thinks this movie is rather overrated, mostly because >it moves a little too slow. not sure. i seem to remember something about how the studio didn't like the original ending, so terry made another one. they didn't like that one, so he did a third. my guess would be that it was the lovey dovey ending; but terry didn't really like it much; so he threw the three endings together. i'm sure someone out there knows the whole story. ken "care for a little necrophilia?" the kenster np. the rushmore soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:01:51 -0500 From: "Sumiko Keay" Subject: Bookfinder Hello, I've been reading the digests for the past week and somebody (I don't remember who) mentioned that they were looking for Raymond Hitchcock books. A better way to go than Amazon.com is this site: http://www.bookfinder.com/ I only discovered it within the past couple of months and have had really good luck finding reading copies of out of print books. (Of course, you can also get the highly collectible, very expensive books too but I usually just want a reading copy. Sumiko Keay ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:15:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Griffith Davies Subject: Fwd: More Robyn Info > Subject: Robyn > > More Robyn info. > > Open your date books and add this -- Saturday, July > 31 from noon to 2pm, > join Mike Morrison and lots of KCRW folks at the > Starbucks Coffee on > Melrose (@ Stanley in West Hollywood) as he hosts > WBE live, with > performances by British psychedelic troubadour Robyn > Hitchcock & > sophisticated folk-rocker Jonathan Brooke. Our > previous three outings have > been a lot of fun, so save your coffee appetite and > hike over to Hollywood > for a great early afternoon of music..... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:26:32 -0400 From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" Subject: read, stink, shun The Force is a pantheistic heresy that must be fought wherever it is found...D'oh! That makes me Darth Vader... I was in a production of Aladdin once. On the first read-through another of the actors objected to some scene-setting guff about the Ancient Powers trapping the genie in the bottle thousands of years before. She thought it was 'dangerous' that young children should hear this sort of thing. (If she had objected on the grounds that the piece was badly written I'd have supported her). It quickly became apparent that she was a Christian. In the debate that followed she couldn't accept that some people thought that bible stories were similar myths. She wasn't a fundamentalist, but still seemed to take some of the points made about virgin births and floods as an attack on her very being. I've seen too many 'normal' Christians react similarly to think that bristling, irrational defensiveness is the preserve of a hateful minority of believers. I'm afraid IMHO Dolph has over-reacted in a related fashion during the past few exchanges. To paraphrase a famous blasphemous work of art, "Joel is not the Messiah, but neither is he a very naughty boy." jmbc ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Griffith Davies Subject: doh, forgot something.... Regarding 31 July 1999 You can listen to the show live on the internet at www.kcrw.org from 12pm to 2pm (pacific). I'll be taping it at home (with much less static this time). I'm not sure if I will make it to any of the free shows or the MABD show..... griffith ps If I do make it, I'm going to bring a camera. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:27:55 EDT From: DDerosa5@aol.com Subject: God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... Rich asked: Has anybody seen the Producer's cut of Brazil? I've always wondered how good it is. I'm one who thinks this movie is rather overrated, mostly because it moves a little too slow. Well, I just went to see the new film print of a director's cut at the Music Box last week. Prior to that, I had seen three versions I know of: the original release version (what I call the committee cut), the TV version (which must have been a producer's cut, as it had an inexplicable happy ending, as well as some unseen footage), and a video called the director's cut. This new version I saw was not tha same as any of those, those most similar to the latter as I remember it. This one was a little longer, the story line was clearer, and it had some fantastic new footage of a production line detailing payment options for the newly arrested detainee. I think I read about this onlist before, but am not sure. And, it's not slow, it just accretes. As for God? Eh. I ignore It, It ignores me. Perhaps sometimes I pretend it exists, and then it pretends my life has meaning. Gays, on the other hand, I know exist. And Christians. Of both groups, I feel comfortable opining: Some of them are very nice; Some of them suck. I can't imagine a heaven or hell that will include all of either self-professed group. All fegs go to Heaven, of course. Unless they don't like that song. by the way, since I'm the only person harping on this Ray Hitchcock thing, I'll point out the embarassing mistake in my message yesterday: Attack the Lusitania! was of course a Hitchcock novel not set during World War II, as it was about getting the US into World War I, the War to End all Wars, or as it's called today, the Prequel. Just an extra I, sorry, must have been third I blind. OK, back to genetic engineering and nuclear proliferation, dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:33:58 EDT From: DDerosa5@aol.com Subject: PS I hate Britts Eddie offered, in response to Susan: <"Girl in My Soup" would have to be late 60s, because it was made into a movie starring Peter Sellers in (I think) '69 or '70.> wonder if that's why robyn mentions peter sellers with such frequency? not that one needs an *excuse* to mention peter sellers, of course. - --well, "Percy" had Britt Ekland in it, and Robyn never mentions her... assuming that it wasn't just Sellers in disguise. (you all fell for that "Slim Pickens" character he did so brilliantly) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:51:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Kinky Kubrik On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Ken Ostrander wrote: > >Has anybody seen the Producer's cut of Brazil? > >I've always wondered how good it is. I'm one who > >thinks this movie is rather overrated, mostly because > >it moves a little too slow. > not sure. > i seem to remember something about how the studio didn't like the original ending, so terry made another one. they didn't like that one, so he did a third. my guess would be that it was the lovey dovey ending; but terry didn't really like it much; so he threw the three endings together. i'm sure someone out there knows the whole story. > ken "care for a little necrophilia?" the kenster Check out the recently reprinted Battle Of Brazil: Terry Gilliam V. Universal Pictures by Jack Matthews. http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=15-1557833478-0 J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:59:06 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... On 7/13/99 2:27 PM, DDerosa5@aol.com wrote: >All fegs go to Heaven, of course. Unless they don't like that song. uh oh, I'm in trouble... ------------------------------ Date: 13 Jul 1999 15:33:01 -0700 From: "John B. Jones" Subject: Re: eb all over the world >good it is. I'm one who thinks this movie is rather overrated, mostly >because it moves a little too slow.> My wife just bought me the Criterion Edition of it on DVD, when I told her I had never seen it!! Anyway, we got it yesterday, and the damn thing is on THREE DVD's!! I think one version is 142 minutes, and features Terry's commentary, and the 2nd DVD has documentaries and production notes, etc. And the third is 90min or so long and I have no idea how it differs from the first DVD. I've only seen the first 30 min so far, and already I love those little TV screens everywhere. =jbj= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:57:53 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: Distinction Chaney, Dolph L wrote: > I was raised Southern Baptist too, so I sympathize because you probably > weren't told this very often either, but Jesus was Jewish. Paul was a Jew > of Roman citizenship, etc., etc. There are no Western Europeans and a few > Eastern Europeans in the Bible who profess belief in Christ (a few Roman > guards here and there, some Macedonians, etc.), and of course the Bible > doesn't say much about America since no one knew it was over here at the > time. I think you're missing my point. I know that Jesus was Jewish. But Jews don't believe that He was the Messiah. My understanding of the Bible is that you MUST accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior if you intend on spending eternity in Heaven. That would rule out Jews, Muslims, Hindus, everyone except Christians. > As far as the Bible being racist, that is clearly refuted, among other > places, by Paul in Galatians 3:28 -- "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there > is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all > one in Christ Jesus." It is not the Bible that is racist; racism is a sin > that breeds in certain very misguided people, many of whom are only > "Christian" in the sense that that's the faux-Kevlar vest they hide behind > and the checkbox they mark on the census form. Let me clarify myself: Christianity is inherently racist because of just what I mentioned above. If your parents are Jewish, you probably won't believe that Jesus was the son of God no matter how many people tell you differently. That just seems very racist to me. Which God someone puts their faith in is very dependent on where in the world they're born. That's my point. I didn't choose what country and what family I was born into. And no one else gets to make that choice either. > I'm not sure who gave you this right. But if you're claiming the right to > publicly spew the same sort of hatred that the Religious Wrong spew, then > that's OK -- legally you do have that right. However, you should be > prepared to be shunned, just as they are. Equal rights, equal > responsibilities. I never intended to spew hatred. I'm completely against hatred of any kind. I was merely stating my opinion about the existence of some basic fallacies in the Christian faith. Someone mentioned that God considers homosexuality an abomination, so I felt it was my duty to speak up about what I thought about that. But I think that we can all live together happily and still have different views about things. I do respect your beliefs. But that doesn't mean we can't argue about our beliefs every once in awhile, as long as we do it in a mature manner. If things I said didn't sound mature, then I sincerely apologize. It was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings. > I'm going to resist thinking that you're making insinuations about Rebecca's > (or my) integrity in your last major paragraph. Just to make it clearer, > while I don't happen to believe that any sin can undo the forgiveness of God > (because that would make us somehow more powerful than God in that sense), > "doing whatever the hell you want" is something Jesus spoke against over and > over, and some of us really try to remember that and implement it in our > life daily. No, I wasn't making any insinuations about your integrity. I was merely using my friend Brandon as an example of someone who would never judge other people for the lifestyle they lead. Most Christians I've met do have that holier-than-thou attitude. I was implying that you guys are probably much cooler than that; that you probably wouldn't make judgements about me. > You can choose to live in that hatred if you want to. I > hope you don't, because that's a very painful and self-destructive way to > live. Well, I don't think I'm living in hatred. Actually, I'm very happy and almost always have been. I don't hate anyone. That would take up too much of my energy. But there are people and ideas that I'm indifferent to. I don't hate Christianity or Christians. I just don't believe in it. And because of my southern Baptist background, I'm very interested in religions. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:04:09 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: read, stink, shun jbranscombe@compuserve.com wrote: > To paraphrase a famous blasphemous work of art, "Joel is not the Messiah, > but neither is he a very naughty boy." I take offense at this. I AM a very naughty boy and anyone who says differently, obviously doesn't know me very well. If any of you want to make statements about my character in the future, please remember that I'm an alcoholic pervert from Texas who cusses like a fucking sailor! Thanks Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 18:07:47 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... DDerosa5@aol.com wrote: > All fegs go to Heaven, of course. Unless they don't like that song. Well, I love that song, so that counts me in! > by the way, since I'm the only person harping on this Ray Hitchcock thing, Well, I hope I can harp with you soon. I'm very interested in reading some of his novels. I found a used copy of Archangel 006 in hardback but it was a tad out of my price range. I think I'm more interested in the comedies anyway. By the way, thanks for posting the segments. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:25:41 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: God is still alive, and lives in a bunker in Brazil... the criterion collection edition is considered the definitive director's cut. by the director, anyway. back in print? woo hoo! by the way, the criterion collection laserdisc (and, now, dvd apparently) includes a video history of the brouhaha, hosted by jack matthews, also entitled "The Battle Of Brazil." it's pretty cool. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 17:49:47 PDT From: "D B" Subject: Re: blair witch vs. bell witch > >BTW, gotta go with Eddie on THE ADJUSTER, which I don't think Egoyan >surpassed until the masterful THE SWEET HEREAFTER. I didn't find it >willfully oblique, more like a puzzle written in a private language so >fascinating that you can't help but keep trying to unravel it... Did anybody like Egoyan's "Next of Kin" as much as I did? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:00:32 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Cater to Your Egoyan [was: blair witch vs. bell witch] At 05:49 PM 7/13/99 -0700, D B wrote: >Did anybody like Egoyan's "Next of Kin" as much as I did? Can't ever find it, I suspect in large measure because video stores might think that they have it already. And they do -- the Patrick Swayze movie of the same title, that is. I've seen all of Egoyan's features since FAMILY VIEWING (1987), including a very fortunate viewing of his brilliant TV movie GROSS MISCONDUCT that happened to line up with a visit to Detroit (and thus CBC over the airwaves!), and I've liked them all. Sometimes I've left the theatre with mixed feelings, but when I find myself still thinking about the film two weeks later, I realize that he's managed to haunt me again. Considering that with most movies, I've forgotten the character names and three-quarters of the situations by the time I've driven out of the parking lot, this is high praise. later, Miles ====================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 16:46:25 +1200 (NZST) From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: the G word >If you ask me, God's a homophobic, racist prick. But, of course, that's >just my humble opinion. nah... just some of his worshippers. As Mohammed said on the differences between people and their tastes [1]: "Every kind of flower grows in the garden of Allah"[2] James (who believes in a supreme being far more than he believes in religion) [1] it's a long time since I read the Qu'ran, and since I don't take shorthand I've only ever read it in translation. [2] yeh, same God - just a different name ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 22:12:14 -0700 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: Re: Cater to Your Egoyan [was: blair witch vs. bell witch] At 9.00 PM -0700 7/13/99, Miles Goosens wrote: >I've seen all of Egoyan's features since FAMILY VIEWING (1987), including a >very fortunate viewing of his brilliant TV movie GROSS MISCONDUCT that >happened to line up with a visit to Detroit (and thus CBC over the >airwaves!), and I've liked them all. Sometimes I've left the theatre with >mixed feelings, but when I find myself still thinking about the film two >weeks later, I realize that he's managed to haunt me again. Considering >that with most movies, I've forgotten the character names and >three-quarters of the situations by the time I've driven out of the parking >lot, this is high praise. I was an Egoyan fan until The Sweet Hereafter. But I think I already bitched about that movie on the list. Hated it. Cured me of any Egoyan films for the future. But I am really, really looking forward to this friday. - - c "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** M.E.Ketone/C.Galbraith meketone@ix.netcom.com carrieg@blueplanetsoftware.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 17:14:36 +1200 (NZST) From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #247 lj, you may want to skip this message... >>ps: Fuck the Easter Bunny! > >I just wanted to point out that if anyone decides to actually >do this, PLEASE don't do it here in rural Illinois, OK? We've got >waaay too many bunnies as it is. should I point out that until last year's introduction of RCD virus (which killed 97% of the rabbit population of the NZ South Island) there was a regular annual sporting event called "The Easter Bunny Shoot".Pairs of hunters had 48 hours to bag as many as possible around the hills of cCentral Otago. The winning pair usually ended up with 500 or more rabbits, and the whole contest usually temporarily lowered the rabbit population by some 20,000. As to 'fuck the Easter Bunny", well, the traditional reason for their being an easter bunny is their tendency to, erm 'go forth and multiply'... <"Girl in My Soup" would have to be late 60s, because it was made into a movie starring Peter Sellers in (I think) '69 or '70.> Peter Sellers and Goildie Hawn (her first big movie). 1969 *I think*. James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: S Dwarf Subject: Re: Distinction Joel Mullins wrote: > Knaurr wrote: >> But basically, yes, the big to-do is that >> homosexuality is a =lifestyle=, not just a one-time >> thing, and that by living that lifestyle, you are >> turning your back on God, since He sees it as an >> abomination. > If you ask me, God's a homophobic, racist prick. > But, of course, that's just my humble opinion. nah. it's just that jerry falwell, pat robertson, etc, wouldn't recognize God if He walked up and started giving them head...... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:52:54 PDT From: "chris franz" Subject: Fwd: (yet) more US dates Dunno if anyone has noticed this yet, but apparently Tim Keegan will join Robyn for the west coast portion of the MABD tour. Now, if only Grant and Jon were there too... >From: departurelounge@meekgiant.com >To: Recipient List Suppressed:; >Subject: (yet) more US dates >Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 01:58:52 +0100 > >Hello USA, > >The Departure Lounge *has* finished their tour in the US, *but* Tim has >ably 'ambled' his way to the west coast and is participating in some shows >which may be of interest to you, as we highly recommend the bands involved. >. . The Flaming Lips, Sebadoh, and Robyn Hitchcock - who Tim is >accompanying. Here we go. > >Fri, 23rd July Seattle, Wa Showbox >Sat, 24th July Seattle, Wa Showbox >Sun, 25th July Portland, OR Roseland Theatre >Mon, 26th July OFF (what, after 3 days??...haha) >Tue, 27th July San Francisco, CA Filmore >Wed, 28th July San Francisco, CA Filmore >Thur, 29th July Santa Cruz, CA Palookaville >Fri, 30th July Las Vegas, NV The Joint >Sat, 31st July Ventura, CA Ventura Theatre >Sun, 1st Aug LA/Hollywood The Palace > >May we always recommend that you check for departure times and availablity. > >Anyone having problems ordering "Out Of Here" via import, or otherwise.... >it will be available soon via mail ordernon the website. > >Thanks for all the great e-mails from the northeast. We know it's not the >same thing for the west coast, but at least one member has made it.,, enjoy > >The Lounge will be reconvening in th UK in the autumn... > >More departures announced shortly. > > > _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:25:23 -0500 From: David Librik Subject: Re: http://158.72.105.122/gh/ephemera/Default.htm Stewart wrote: > Ken> as for myself, i've never eaten weetabix > >At least 90% of my mornings on this planet have been started with >Weetabix. Guess I can thank Kettering for a good proportion of my body >mass. What you don't see in that picture -- what you don't see on the new boxes of Weetabix -- is the old Weetabix mascot from before 1990 or so. It -- he -- was a bundle of Weetabix with a face on it, a face with incredibly heavy eyebrows and a disturbing pasted-on grin. Tricky Dick the demonic shredded wheat. - - David Librik who hopes that you are dreaming too ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 12:27:14 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: the G word On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, James Dignan wrote: > As Mohammed said on the differences between people and their tastes [1]: > "Every kind of flower grows in the garden of Allah"[2] Some contributors appear to be under the impression that God is exclusively Christian. There are three peoples of the book, the Jews, the Christians and the Muslims, who all believe in the same God, but differ over the status of two of his prophets. And however, you look at it, he hates gays and isn't too keen on women either, assuming that Leviticus and co. report his views correctly. > James (who believes in a supreme being far more than he believes in religion) Played by Ralph Richardson, presumably (: - - Mike Godwin PS to bunnyphobics: watch out for 'Night of the Lepus' next time it's shown on TV. Those flesh-eating flopsies are really scary! [I am currently rewriting the tune of my epic ballad 'Invasion of the Giant Bunnies'] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 09:14:47 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: some future releases Just thought I'd pass along some rumors about upcoming releases. Of course, some of this is just rumor and speculation, but it's still good news. September '99: The Apples in Stereo (double album) Quasi -- Field Studies (Sept. 7) January 2000: (new albums from:) Radiohead The The Elliott Smith The turn of the century should be pretty nice musically speaking. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:38:24 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: NYC fegs, DC fegs, out all night, chasing girl-ies... I guess this is a big attempt on the part of Dean Wareham to get my attention, yet *once again*! First he was communicating with me through his songs (i.e., "fuzzy wuzzy"), and now THIS! Well, Mister Wareham, let me tell you-- it's not going to work. However... Luna is playing a free concert in Prospect Park on Friday night, July 23. The Prospect Park Bandshell hosts free "Celebrate Brooklyn" concerts and films every Thursday, Friday, and Saturday night throughout the summer. We usually pack a big picnic basket, lots of booze, etc. (I make killer fucking tuna sandwiches)(they taste even better after a coupla bottles of wine) They also have Brooklyn Lager on tap there... It's a very nice place to see music, lots of fun, very relaxing, and there are good restaurants and bars around there, if nothing else. Like I said, we go all summer long, and there will certainly be a big bunch of people attending this particular show... oh, and I do BELIEVE that this is when a certain Mr. Tom Clark will be in New York City. Maybe we can persuade him and Colleen (a.k.a., "the Most Tolerant Woman in the World") to join us? And what about you DC people? Chris, Bayard, Scary Mary? Want to come up? Our bed is AWFULLY BIG, you know! - -l "Deeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnn!" j ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 10:02:32 -0500 From: "chad leahy" Subject: Re: Distinction >Joel wrote: >I know that Jesus was Jewish. But >Jews don't believe that He was the Messiah. My understanding of the >Bible is that you MUST accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and >savior if you intend on spending eternity in Heaven. That would rule >out Jews, Muslims, Hindus, everyone except Christians. your point has, and most likey always will be, my main gripe with the christian religion. i was raised in an *extremely* religious and charismatic household. i've long since removed myself from that belief system for numerous reasons, some of which you've already illustrated. i am a christian but my views are hardly that of mainstream christianity today. some major differences? 1) i don't believe the acceptance of christ as "your personal lord and savior" to be the only road to heaven. if it was, why didn't jesus mention it? iirc, references used by mainstream christianity to back up this idea all stem from the book of john. the majority of theologians agree that the book of john is pretty much bunk for reasons to long to delve into in this email. 2) i don't believe that the bible is "the inerrant word of god." many christians believe this but there is no support for such a lofty claim. doctrine. pure and simple. 3) i believe most religous people worship the same god with a different name. i believe the largest difference to be cultural -- not spiritual. >And because of my southern Baptist background, I'm very interested >in religions. then allow me to make a book recommendation. Meeting Jesus Again for the First Time: The Historical Jesus & the Heart of Contemporary Faith by Marcus J. Borg it's a quick read and rather informative. chad m. leahy "art and dreaming are the windows of our race. close them and we suffocate." - robyn hitchcock np: new order, movement nr: voluntary simplicity, duane elgin ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #248 *******************************