From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #247 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, July 13 1999 Volume 08 : Number 247 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Cult of Ray (some interview spoilers) [Vivien Lyon ] Re: Re: Distinction [Michael R Godwin ] Re: Kinky Kubrik [Richard Plumb at NTAC ] my e-mail's finally working again [Natalie Jacobs ] Re: Re: Distinction [Christopher Gross ] Re: Re: Re: Distinction [Paul Christian Glenn ] Re: Re: Re: Distinction [Aaron Mandel ] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distinction [Christopher Gross ] Conneticut Public Television [Plpalmer@ix.netcom.com] The Official CLOSE LOBSTERS Home Page! ["Todd E. Jones" ] Re: Vic Chesnutt (0% RH) [Terrence M Marks ] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ad infinitum ["JH3" ] Re: Distinction ["D B" ] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distinction [Ken Ostrander ] That rabbit's dynamite! [Eric Loehr ] RE: Vic Chesnutt (0% RH) ["Thomas, Ferris" ] RE: Robyn @ Rhino ["Colaw, Jeffrey L" ] did our own ultraconformist write this? [DDerosa5@aol.com] Re: Robyn @ Rhino [Joel Mullins ] as promised, pictures of California [lj lindhurst ] blair witch vs. bell witch [Miles Goosens ] Re: Distinction [Joel Mullins ] RE: Distinction ["Chaney, Dolph L" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 07:07:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Vivien Lyon Subject: Cult of Ray (some interview spoilers) - --- DDerosa5@aol.com wrote: > I can't pretend to you that his books are gonna fill > your various needs for > Jacob Lurch, but it's so obvious to me that Ray told > Robyn tons of bedtime > stories, and so it's interesting to look through > these looking for roots and > correlations. Now, I wasn't going to open my yap until I got the interview transcribed, but I can't stand it anymore. I asked Robyn about this- if his dad told him any stories when he was a kid (and if this was a possible origination of his story-telling habits). He said something to the effect that his dad didn't tell stories as such, it was more that he had a running story about their life (a direct quote- "He mythologized our lives"). It seems that he made things up, whimsical explanations of things and so on, but not actual sit-you-down-and-tell-a-story. But he said, as though he was just realizing it, that he thought he probably got his story-telling tendencies from his dad. It was an interesting moment. He also said some things about Christianity, which would be apropos of another topic du jour, but I can't remember the specifics, and my damned co-worker hasn't shown up with the micro-cassette transcriber yet. I should have the whole thing done in a few days. I only got to ask him a few questions (even though it was a half-hour interview) because the fellow couldn't seem to answer a question in less than five minutes. Damn him! Damn him all to hell! Vivien _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:19:33 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Re: Distinction On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Paul Christian Glenn wrote: > I see nothing wrong with picking apart belief systems (in fact, I *like* > doing that), but to trash *people* is just inexcusable for anybody with > half a brain. ;) Hmm. Nice photo of Charlie Watts! (-: - - MRG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 08:02:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Richard Plumb at NTAC Subject: Re: Kinky Kubrik In one of the writeups regarding this it said that Kubrik himself made the changes. I'm almost certain the changes were contractually necessary. I would be very surprised if the financiers did not require that the movie come in as an R. I also don't think whether or not you'll see some guys genitals will make or break the movie. Also I'm almost certain that Clockwork Orange was X rated when it was released. I was about 13 or 14 at the time and I couldn't go see it although I'd read the book. I remember when I did see it for the first time in 1975 I was 17 and was wondering if I'd be proofed. It was re-released then as part of a double feature with Deliverance. Boy was that a fun night at the movies. Has anybody seen the Producer's cut of Brazil? I've always wondered how good it is. I'm one who thinks this movie is rather overrated, mostly because it moves a little too slow. rich _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:14:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: my e-mail's finally working again I thought I could resist temptation until July 20, but when a promotional copy of JfS was thrust under my nose at the latest record review meeting, my willpower crumbled. Only a few songs (Viva! Sea-Tac, I Feel Beautiful, Antwoman, Elizabeth Jade) stand out for me so far, but Robyn's albums generally take a while to grow on me. An agonizing track-by-track analysis is forthcoming. All in all, though, nicer production and more interesting arrangements than on Moss Elixir, though Deni Bonet is sadly missed. And yeah, it does rock out a little more, though in a genteel sort of way. Cover art - dunno if anyone's posted about this yet: purple background, big curly yellow and black star designed by Michele Noach. I would assume this is the final, official art. n. (headed for another job interview this pm... is employment around the corner??) p.s. "Lal" is, I believe, short for "Lalage." There is a character in "The French Lieutenant's Woman" by that name, and it's explained that it comes from a Greek word meaning "to babble like a brook." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:24:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Re: Distinction On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Paul Christian Glenn wrote: > I see nothing wrong with picking apart belief systems (in fact, I *like* > doing that), but to trash *people* is just inexcusable for anybody with > half a brain. ;) Then it's a good thing no one here has trashed people. There were some folks who didn't appreciate having their belief system trashed, though. - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:29:49 -0600 From: Paul Christian Glenn Subject: Re: Re: Re: Distinction At 7/13/99 11:24:00 AM, you wrote: >Then it's a good thing no one here has trashed people. There were some >folks who didn't appreciate having their belief system trashed, though. That depends entirely on how you view things. To the Christian (and many others who are not "Christians"), God is very much a person, and calling him/her a "homophobic, racist prick" certainly qualifies as "trashing". I *do* understand that in the writer's mind this was not the case (assuming, of course, that the writer doesn't believe in God), but regardless of that, such abusive and inflammatory language is not only unneccessary, but also counter-productive to "healthy discussion", which is apparently the goal here. Paul Christian Glenn | "Besides being complicated, trance@radiks.net | reality, in my experience, http://x-real.firinn.org | is usually odd." -C.S. Lewis Currently Reading: "The Complete Stories" by Flannery O'Connor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:10:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Re: Re: Distinction On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Paul Christian Glenn wrote: > That depends entirely on how you view things. To the Christian (and > many others who are not "Christians"), God is very much a person, and > calling him/her a "homophobic, racist prick" certainly qualifies as > "trashing". if the christian God exists and is a person but is not a "homophobic racist prick", he has displayed complete indifference toward the unquestionably existent creeps who've been portraying him that way for... well, quite a while now. much as politicans are, it is understood, opening themselves up to public criticism by entering public life, it seems to me that the usual rules of civility do not all apply when talking about the actions of the most powerful being in existence. it is uncommon to encounter someone, faithful or not, who believes that when God has had nothing nice to say, he has refrained from saying anything at all. anyway, blasphemy doesn't denote a godless atmosphere -- quite the opposite. countries dominated by one particular religion have much more anti-god obscenity in the common lexicon. the worst you get in america, usually, is what the obscenity laws like to call "imprecations of divine vengeance", not an abjuration of faith at all! a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:36:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distinction On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, Paul Christian Glenn wrote: > That depends entirely on how you view things. To the Christian (and many > others who are not "Christians"), God is very much a person, and calling > him/her a "homophobic, racist prick" certainly qualifies as "trashing". But by asking that no one insult God because insulting people is bad netiquette, you are asking that everyone accept your belief that God is a person. I hope you agree that you can't require all Fegs to be believers! I > *do* understand that in the writer's mind this was not the case (assuming, of > course, that the writer doesn't believe in God), but regardless of that, such > abusive and inflammatory language is not only unneccessary, but also > counter-productive to "healthy discussion", which is apparently the goal here. Okay, here you have a good point. - --Chris ps: Fuck the Easter Bunny! ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 11:41:17 -0600 From: Paul Christian Glenn Subject: Re: Distinction At 7/13/99 12:36:00 PM, you wrote: >> That depends entirely on how you view things. To the Christian (and many >> others who are not "Christians"), God is very much a person, and calling >> him/her a "homophobic, racist prick" certainly qualifies as "trashing". > >But by asking that no one insult God because insulting people is bad >netiquette, you are asking that everyone accept your belief that God is a >person. I hope you agree that you can't require all Fegs to be believers! No, of course not. But we *can* hope for the best out of one another. >ps: Fuck the Easter Bunny! LOL!!! :D Paul Christian Glenn | "Besides being complicated, trance@radiks.net | reality, in my experience, http://x-real.firinn.org | is usually odd." -C.S. Lewis Currently Reading: "The Complete Stories" by Flannery O'Connor ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 09:42:40 -0700 From: Plpalmer@ix.netcom.com Subject: Conneticut Public Television Are there any Conneticut Fegs out there who could tape a program called Hot Summer Nights off of Public Televsion on Saturday, July 24th. A band called the Nields are featured and I'd like a copy. I have plenty of Robyn stuff to trade. Peter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:53:11 -0400 From: "Todd E. Jones" Subject: The Official CLOSE LOBSTERS Home Page! Check out the Official CLOSE LOBSTERS Home Page at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2111/lobsters.html or http://closelobsters.areCool.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 17:56:20 -0400 From: Scary Mary Subject: Vic Chesnutt (0% RH) MD-DC-VA area fegsters - Vic Chesnutt will be at Iota in Arlington, VA, on Monday July 19th. Anyone going? I'll be there with some friends. S. Mary ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:03:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: Vic Chesnutt (0% RH) Is _anyone_ touring Florida this year? Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 12:04:47 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ad infinitum >ps: Fuck the Easter Bunny! I just wanted to point out that if anyone decides to actually do this, PLEASE don't do it here in rural Illinois, OK? We've got waaay too many bunnies as it is. Apparently the devaluation of the Russian rouble has completely eliminated the local trade in raccoon and rabbit pelts, so nobody around here is hunting them. The resulting explosion in the 'coon and bunny population is creating a serious ecological problem, 'cuz the little critters are so hard-up for food (due to there being so many of them) that they're starting to starting to attack barns, trash cans, and cute little kitty-cats at an almost unheard-of rate. So if you'd been thinking that local US economies aren't affected by the greed-driven actions of corrupt bankers and politicians in the former Soviet Union, think again! Meanwhile, I'll be scooping some more coon-poop off my back deck. John "time for my medication again" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:24:49 PDT From: "D B" Subject: Re: Distinction Snore...... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:19:28 -0400 From: Ken Ostrander Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Distinction >>So what do you think, Fegs? Shall we all refrain from writing anything >>that might hurt someone's feelings from now on? I think that would make >>for a lot of healthy discussion. > >I see nothing wrong with picking apart belief systems (in fact, I *like* >doing that), but to trash *people* is just inexcusable for anybody with >half a brain. ;) well, abomination is basically hatred. god hates gays. period. i don't know if these views are shares by anyone on this list; but they were spelled out, and that opens up the discussion in my mind. i've spent my entire life dealing with fundamentalist christians and have found them to be pretty narrow-minded about a great many things. my primary act of rebellion was to be open-minded. so i laughed hysterically at joel's insightful satire. i am against censorship of all kinds. sometimes people aren't very tactful; but sometimes people are hypersensitive. blasphemy always pisses someone off; but god can take care of him/herself. >>ps: I thought Joel's comment was an obvious satire on the offensiveness of >>that minority of Christians who hate gays, not on all Christians; but what >>do I know? > >Didn't bother *me* much (and I am very much a Christian), but it clearly was >offensive to some people, and isn't that the standard (for better or worse) >that our post-modern and politically correct culture holds as holy? holy himalayas it's a religious war batman! well, a war of words anyway. those are the only good wars. political correctness is basically bullshit. sure, words can hurt; but real repression lies elsewhere. i don't want to offend anyone; but c'mon, let's call something what it is and not try to gloss over it. KEN "killing in the name of..." THE KENSTER "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:34:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Loehr Subject: That rabbit's dynamite! On Tue, 13 Jul 1999, JH3 wrote: > is creating a serious ecological problem, 'cuz the little critters > are so hard-up for food (due to there being so many of them) > that they're starting to starting to attack barns, trash cans, and > cute little kitty-cats at an almost unheard-of rate. Perhaps it would help to confuse the rabbits if you ran away more? ;-} Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:46:43 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: Vic Chesnutt (0% RH) He's playing NYC soon, too. > -----Original Message----- > From: Scary Mary [mailto:mad@loona.net] > Sent: Monday, July 12, 1999 5:56 PM > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: Vic Chesnutt (0% RH) > > > MD-DC-VA area fegsters - Vic Chesnutt will be at Iota in > Arlington, VA, on Monday July 19th. Anyone going? I'll be > there with some friends. > > S. Mary > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:48:56 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: eb all over the world never heard of it! i'll ask, though. come to think of it, i don't think i've heard of *any* hindu/urdu names of fewer than two syllables. well, they will in seattle. but i thought they were everywhere. granted, this was a special case, it being verhoeven and all. as i recall, the plan was, Showgirls was going to be a huge box office smash, thereby breaking the NC-17 taboo into little, itsy bits. didn't quite work out that way, though... <2. Theaters don't check ID and an NC-17 film would force them to patrol more vigorously (thus disuading that ever-important teen demo.> when i went to see South Park, there was a big ol' sign stating that they would be checking id for all r-rated movies. <"Girl in My Soup" would have to be late 60s, because it was made into a movie starring Peter Sellers in (I think) '69 or '70.> wonder if that's why robyn mentions peter sellers with such frequency? not that one needs an *excuse* to mention peter sellers, of course. yes. it's included on the criterion laserdisc. they call it the "love conquers all" version. it's hard to say how good it is, as, if you've seen the other versions a bajillion times like i have, it's not too difficult to mentally fill in the gaps. (i've heard the same is true of the butchered version of Once Upon A Time In America.) one interesting thing about it is that they use some footage that gilliam shot, but didn't include in his own cuts of the movie. Reply-To: "Todd E. Jones" To: fegmaniax-digest@ecto.org, fegmaniax@ecto.org, Hedblade@aol.com Subject: The Official CLOSE LOBSTERS Home Page! Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:53:11 -0400> he sent it to the fucking *ecto* address, and we still got it! how can this be? anything with hedblade's name on it automatically winds up here? hey, debora and/or vincent. woj, cynthia and myself are going to see chris chandler tonight on tacoma, but we don't know your e-mail addie. get in touch y'all wanna come along. and any portland fegs want to drive up to meet the almighty listmaster, the show doesn't start until 8. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:46:59 -0400 From: "Colaw, Jeffrey L" Subject: RE: Robyn @ Rhino For all of us outside of listening distance of LA: Doesn't the KCRW show "Morning Becomes Eclectic" cybercast it's shows? Or at least record them and make them available for listening over the net? jeff >Since he will be in the Los Angeles area, rumour has >it that he will also be performing on KCRW ("Morning >Becomes Eclectic" or "The Open Road") around that time >as well. Once I have more info, of course I will pass >it on.... >griffith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:21:24 EDT From: DDerosa5@aol.com Subject: did our own ultraconformist write this? I think it was HG Wells who said, "When I see an adult on a bike, it gives me hope for humanity"--I guess nowadays to cheer up you must look for a teenager on one. dave Children's Bicycles Are Built For Few BY SUSAN DODGE SUBURBAN REPORTER Cruising around on a bicycle, long a symbol of summer freedom for kids, is becoming a rarity as more parents chauffeur their kids everywhere from swim practice to soccer. Many parents say they are keeping their kids from riding bikes because they are worried about the volume of traffic in their neighborhoods and about their kids being preyed on by strangers. "When I was growing up, we rode our bikes everywhere, but now I don't like my kids biking by themselves because of `stranger danger,' " said Faith Behr, a Naperville resident who grew up in Highland Park and often rode on the bike paths there. Instead of biking around their neighborhood of cul-de-sacs for fun, Behr's kids, Katherine, 9, and Madeleine, 5, keep busy with swim meets and in-line skating. "It's also the fact that these are the baby boomers' kids, who are [busy with activities]," Behr said. The number of biking and walking trips made by children ages 5 to 15 fell by 63 percent from 1977 to 1995, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. The CDC is studying patterns of biking and walking to try and reduce health risks of a sedentary lifestyle. "As a nation, we've become more sedentary, with 30 percent of the population doing no physical activity beyond things like driving," said Richard Killingsworth, a CDC health scientist. One look at Chicago's lakefront path, crowded with bikers, walkers and runners, may leave the impression that biking is on the upswing. But the CDC found that the number of people biking and walking here fell to 6.4 percent in 1995, down from 10.9 percent in 1977. Behr's kids occasionally ride their bikes, but usually just on their street or when Behr and her husband, Mike, drive them several miles to a forest preserve bike path, where the family rides together. As biking by children declined, in-line skating soared, according to the National Sporting Goods Association. Biking among kids ages 7 to 11 declined 15 percent from 1990 to 1998, while in-line skating jumped 616 percent during the same time, the association found. Part of the decline in biking can be blamed on cities and suburbs without bike paths, forcing people to drive to forest preserve paths, Killingsworth said. The CDC is working with communities to encourage more town paths. "There are a lot of communities now that are being built even without sidewalks, and there are no bikeways or trails nearby," Killingsworth said. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 13:31:20 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: Robyn @ Rhino Colaw, Jeffrey L wrote: > > For all of us outside of listening distance of LA: > > Doesn't the KCRW show "Morning Becomes Eclectic" cybercast it's > shows? Or at least record them and make them available for > listening over the net? Yes, they have many shows archived at and I assume if Robyn is on the show, it will end up there at some point. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:02:55 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: as promised, pictures of California Well, we finally got our pictures back... If anyone wants to see goofy pictures from our trip to San Francisco, go to: http://www.w-rabbit.com/california You will also have to suffer through some pictures of us and our NON-feg friends, but there are a number of photos from Nick's barbecue. (sorry, but they came out kind of dark for some reason...) lj * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * LJ Lindhurst White Rabbit Graphic Design http://www.w-rabbit.com Brooklyn, NYC ljl@w-rabbit.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "...This back gate was the place when Mr. Minamigawa, Korean descendant, said one word 'JitenshaKase' as in 'let me borrow your bicycle' and ripped off my Bicycle. And Bicycle was in Black Color. And we performed our Brass Band Play. Due to such fact, Ms. Tasha B. and I labeled price tags on Battery packages together and she was 16..." -Yukio Murakami ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:06:59 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: blair witch vs. bell witch At 12:42 AM 7/13/99 -0600, ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com wrote: >What they haven't been upfront about is the fact that they didn't exactly >create the story out of whole cloth. If you don't know what I'm referring >to, do a net search on "bell witch". Not only a local Middle Tennessee paranormal activity, but the subject of the fine 1988 debut EP of the late great local group the Shakers, LIVING IN THE SHADOW OF A SPIRIT... BTW, gotta go with Eddie on THE ADJUSTER, which I don't think Egoyan surpassed until the masterful THE SWEET HEREAFTER. I didn't find it willfully oblique, more like a puzzle written in a private language so fascinating that you can't help but keep trying to unravel it... later, Miles ====================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 14:13:16 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: Distinction Knaurr wrote: > I think this message was deliberately hurtful, and I hope that in the > future you will refrain from such scathing comments on-list. I don't mind > if you flame me, but did you have to let everyone know how cruel you can > be? First of all, I was not making a comment about Christians. I was simply making a comment about the Christian God, if he actually exists, which I don't believe. If I offended those of you who are Christians, I apologize. My statement was not meant to be hurtful. However, I do think people are way too sensitive these days. You shouldn't get upset when people "trash" your beliefs. According to the Bible, you're supposed to accept persecution and love everyone, even those people who God supposedly hates (i.e. gays). Secondly, in my previous statement, I was simply stating my opinion about the God that is presented in the Bible. If you believe every word of the Bible to be true, then you also believe that Hindus, Muslims, and basically everyone who wasn't born in America or Western Europe are going to hell. Well, that's pretty damn racist, if you ask me. It's not that Christians themselves are racist. They actually send missionaries to these places to try and convert people. But asking a Muslim to accept Christ is just as insane as asking a Christian to accept Allah. Most people believe what their parents tell them to be true. If you're born in a Christian home, then you're way more likely to become a Christian than a Hindu, and therefore, way more likely to go to heaven. Doesn't seem fair, does it? I, myself, was born in a southern Baptist home and went to church every Sunday morning and night until I was 18. I've read the Bible several times and it just doesn't make any sense to me. All it is is a bunch of guys trying to explain things they don't understand, which is a good definition of religion in general. Basically, I don't like any organized religion and I'd like to reserve the right to publicy attack those religions, especially considering the fact that religious people have no problem attacking my lifestyle and the lifestyles of others. If the Christians want to publicy declare that homosexuality, rock music, drugs, alcohol, and sex are evil, then I should be allowed to publicy declare that Christianity is wrong. Now, I do realize that not all Christians are the same. But there are still some fundamental beliefs that all Christians share. But maybe you guys are like my friend Brandon, who believes in the "once a Christian, always a Christian" rule where you can accept Christ and then do whatever the hell you want from then on. I'll quit now. Later Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:07:58 -0400 From: "Chaney, Dolph L" Subject: RE: Distinction I want to stop talking about this, but there isn't anything more personal or important to me than this, so I have to. (and really, if I weren't a little upset about someone publicly ridiculing my God, would my God really be my *God*?) I apologize to the uninterested. Joel says: and basically everyone who wasn't born in America or Western Europe are going to hell. I was raised Southern Baptist too, so I sympathize because you probably weren't told this very often either, but Jesus was Jewish. Paul was a Jew of Roman citizenship, etc., etc. There are no Western Europeans and a few Eastern Europeans in the Bible who profess belief in Christ (a few Roman guards here and there, some Macedonians, etc.), and of course the Bible doesn't say much about America since no one knew it was over here at the time. (You should ask the next Mormon missionary you meet about that, though.) As far as the Bible being racist, that is clearly refuted, among other places, by Paul in Galatians 3:28 -- "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." It is not the Bible that is racist; racism is a sin that breeds in certain very misguided people, many of whom are only "Christian" in the sense that that's the faux-Kevlar vest they hide behind and the checkbox they mark on the census form. and: I'd like to reserve the right to publicy attack those religions I'm not sure who gave you this right. But if you're claiming the right to publicly spew the same sort of hatred that the Religious Wrong spew, then that's OK -- legally you do have that right. However, you should be prepared to be shunned, just as they are. Equal rights, equal responsibilities. I'm going to resist thinking that you're making insinuations about Rebecca's (or my) integrity in your last major paragraph. Just to make it clearer, while I don't happen to believe that any sin can undo the forgiveness of God (because that would make us somehow more powerful than God in that sense), "doing whatever the hell you want" is something Jesus spoke against over and over, and some of us really try to remember that and implement it in our life daily. But all of us screw up. Some of us know it, some of us don't acknowledge it, but we all do. You can choose to live in that hatred if you want to. I hope you don't, because that's a very painful and self-destructive way to live. be well. Dolph ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #247 *******************************