From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #233 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, July 5 1999 Volume 08 : Number 233 Today's Subjects: ----------------- intellectual property rights [tanter ] tour dates [four episode lesbian ] nyc mabd [four episode lesbian ] Texas Fegs [Joel Mullins ] Re: Dead Leppard [ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com] Re: It's the end of the world as we know it ... [ultraconformist@mail.web] Re: intellectual property rights [Terrence M Marks ] Quail-dog [digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)] Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #232 [digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)] Re: It's the end of the world as we know it ... ["Livia" ] Re: tour dates [Miles Goosens ] Re: mp3 not mtv [Capuchin ] Re: eb all over the world [Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 15:51:55 -0500 From: tanter Subject: intellectual property rights The easiest way for an artist to ensure his/her rights is to file for copyright. That way, whether they publish on the web or not, their works are theirs and no one can profit from them without their permission. Marcy L. Tanter Assistant Professor of English Tarleton State University Stephenville, TX 76401 254-968-9892 (9039 to leave a message) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 19:06:21 -0400 From: four episode lesbian Subject: tour dates fegs, i've put together some detailed listings about the music against brain degeneration revue on the fegsite at . while collecting on-line ticket purchasing info, i stumbled across some more shows: santa cruz on july 29, dallas on august 8, atlanta on august 11, and cleveland on august 22. here's the current list as i understand it: July 13 St. Louis Karma 7:00 $15.00 July 14 Cincinnati Bogart's 8:00 $17.50 July 15 Columbus Newport Music Hall 7:00 $13.50 July 16 Pontiac Clutch Cargos 8:00 $20.00 July 17 Chicago Club Metro 8:00 $20.00 July 18 Chicago Club Metro 7:00 $20.00 July 19 Minneapolis First Avenue 8:00 $12.00 July 20 Minneapolis First Avenue 4:00 $12.00 July 23 Seattle Showbox 9:00 $18.00 July 24 Seattle Showbox 9:00 $18.00 July 25 Portland Roseland Theater 9:00 $20.50 July 27 San Francisco The Fillmore 8:00 $21.50 July 28 San Francisco The Fillmore 8:00 $21.50 July 29 Santa Cruz Palookaville 9:00 $21.00 July 30 Las Vegas The Joint/Hard Rock 8:00 $18.00 August 1 Hollywood The Palace 8:00 $20.00 August 3 Denver Ogden Theatre 8:00 $18.50 August 6 Oklahoma City Will Rogers Theater August 7 Austin Stubb's Bar-B-Q August 8 Dallas Deep Ellum Live 8:00 August 11 Atlanta Masquerade 8:00 August 13 Washington, DC 9:30 8:00 $15.00 August 17 New York City Tramps 7:30 $18.00 August 18 New York City Tramps 7:30 $18.00 August 20 Boston The Roxy 8:00 $17.50 August 22 Cleveland Agora Theatre 8:00 $16.50 if anyone can find anything out about the will rogers theatre in oklahoma city, that would be appreciated! woj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 19:42:05 -0400 From: four episode lesbian Subject: nyc mabd so...which noo yawk fegs are planning on catching one or both of the mabd shows in august? i'll probably be swinging by tramps' box office sometime soon (perhaps even this week), so if you'd like to avoid ticketmaster disservice fees, let me know and i'll be happy to pick up tickets for anyone who needs them. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 20:56:57 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Texas Fegs Hey Texas Fegs, What's everyone's plans for the Texas MABD shows? I'll definitely be at the Aug. 7 show in Austin. Should we get together somewhere on 6th street for a few drinks before the show? I don't know if I'm gonna be able to make the Dallas show, but I'm gonna think about it for a couple of weeks. Gregory, are you planning on going? Are there any other Dallas area fegs? - --Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:24:08 -0600 From: ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com Subject: Re: Dead Leppard Terry: >I went to see Zetafest today. Featured Everclear, Def Leppard, Crease, >Pound, Orgy and a bunch of other similar bands. I already knew rock was >dead, but I hadn't realized just _how_ dead it was until today. I don't >think there's a point in listening to rock music any more. How do country >and jazz look these days? Too wiped out to say much, maybe more later, but I did have to say rock music is worth it. After suffering through some serious heat prostration that left me missing about 45 minutes of Poi Dog Pondering's set today at the Taste Of Chicago, I was determined that I was not going to let that stop me from staying to see Cheap Trick in front of a hometown crowd, and I made the right decision. Worth it worth it worth it. Excellent. Would not have been worth it for Def Leppard tho, which maybe is the reason you're so down right about now, Terry :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:31:45 -0600 From: ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com Subject: Re: It's the end of the world as we know it ... >You're all aware, of course, that today is the day that Nostradamus >predicted would be the end of the world. If he's wrong, I'm never >going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. If he's right, >I'm never going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. > >Somebody play the 2 of Frequencies; I'll eat it! Hey, you know, according to Nosty there was supposed to be an Antichrist and a WWIII and all that good stuff beforehand, and there hasn't been yet, so it seems unlikely. Someone just tell me when we get to the point when all of the immediate (i.e., the 2000-related ones) end of the world deadlines have finally been passed. For those keeping score, June 20th was the one for Our Lady of Fatima's prophecy. Oo bop sh-bam, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:05:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: intellectual property rights On Sun, 4 Jul 1999, tanter wrote: > The easiest way for an artist to ensure his/her rights is to file for > copyright. That way, whether they publish on the web or not, their works are > theirs and no one can profit from them without their permission. Umm, the problem here is that Yahoo is demanding a huge number of rights that they shouldn't from their users. Check out http://www.sitepowerup.com/boycottyahoo/boycottyahoo.htm for more into. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:43:55 +1200 From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Quail-dog >PPS: Speaking of, or rather just speaking, beagles -- yes, the world needs >more songs that feature talking dogs. I thank Mr Zappa and Mr Hitchcock for >recognizing this fact -- are there any other songs with talking dogs? not sure about that, but the last line of "Everything reminds me of my dog" by Jane Siberry has a dog which, apparently, wants to make a phone call... James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 16:52:28 +1200 From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #232 >You're all aware, of course, that today is the day that Nostradamus >predicted would be the end of the world. If he's wrong, I'm never >going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. If he's right, >I'm never going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. well, for what it's worth, he said sometime in the seventh month, rather than just the 4th. And also for what it's worth it can be translated as September (the old seventh month). So I'm going for 9/9/99 - the day those Y2K buggers forget to tell everyone about. James (wishing he'd bet on Alex Tudor beign the highest scorer in the test) PS - 4th of July... that's some kind of anniversary, isn't it? Oh, yes, that's right - the 121st anniversary of publication of Das Kapital! James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 22:57:07 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: It's the end of the world as we know it ... > From: ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: Re: It's the end of the world as we know it ... > Date: Sunday, July 04, 1999 8:31 PM > > >You're all aware, of course, that today is the day that Nostradamus > >predicted would be the end of the world. If he's wrong, I'm never > >going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. If he's right, > >I'm never going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. > > > >Somebody play the 2 of Frequencies; I'll eat it! and i might just eat a triple banana somewhere off stage > Hey, you know, according to Nosty there was supposed to be an Antichrist > and a WWIII and all that good stuff beforehand, and there hasn't been yet, > so it seems unlikely. precisely but the reverse-twister trick is to have a lot of personal plans and goals that can't happen before 2000, and so when you go on the toyah panto trapezoid star-ride [just ask to see the video on that one] you must concentrate on what you want and need as well as on everyone else. if we all do it, we draw the safety net ever tighter, because the world has so much momentum to make it through the loop. and if a few nasty acts of semi-random violence occur in the process, then we're sorry, but something has to let the steam out, and the kettle will catch most of the sprouts. and i mean this from the bottom of my heart, because i spent so much time trying to nudge the bloody world and save my unhappy friends that i missed all too many chances for myself. Someone just tell me when we get to the point when all of the immediate > (i.e., the 2000-related ones) end of the world deadlines have finally been > passed. For those keeping score, June 20th was the one for Our Lady of > Fatima's prophecy. er, what was that? i just improvise and skim. > Oo bop sh-bam, > Susan and an almond for the dane in the corner - ---------- - ---------- >Oh, and as Glen pointed out, those end lyrics of Eddie's are more >or less verbatim how Viva Sea-Tac ends on JfS. > >Overall, I love this album. I don't tend to associate albums >with years nearly to the extent that I do, say, movies, but JfS >definitely my favorite so far this year, with a healthy lead on >Black Foliage (2nd). The best thing that I can say about it: In >the past, I've had trouble "ranking" Robyn's albums >hierarchically. He just covers such a wide patch of ground for >me, it's ridiculous. It's like asking, do you like tomatoes or >peaches better? Well, I want both in my life, thank you very >much! So in that vein, I am pleased to report to you that Robyn >has put out yet another album that is completely incomparable to >the rest of his body of work. Put that in your pipe and smoke >it. > >-Michael Wolfe or maybe just a little pouncing spider here in the chili star corner and i prefer my apricots up the tree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:02:21 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: the devil and other quail relatives > From: ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: Re: the devil and other quail relatives > Date: Friday, July 02, 1999 7:34 PM > > >Melissa and I are now addicted to Momus, her even more so than me. We > >added THE ULTRACONFORMIST and the amazing PHILOSOPHY OF MOMUS to the > >collection while in New York, but WE MUST BUY MORE MOMUS IMPORTS. I blame > >Susan Dodge as much as I blame the media and the devil. are they anything like mariala? > I do have this way of sharing (read: pounding unfortunate people on the > head) when I make a musical discovery. ow! i felt that cerry conker. > I'm glad you like "Philosophy" so much. It's actually my least favorite, > which is still pretty good- I mean, this is like saying I like chocolate > ice cream less than french vanilla with cherries, ya know? It's a very > strong album (more so than LRS I think) but it doesn't grab me as much as > some others. > > I'd be interested to see what you think of "Hippopotomomus" when you get > the chance to hear it. I'm really fond of it, but that's because I love > Momus- "Hippopotomomus" is like Momus in a concentrated dose, everything > even his critics admit he does well and everything people object to most > about him are present in really high doses. It's sort of.... it's chock > full of MOMOSITY the way that say, "Tropical Flesh Mandala" and "Victorian > Squid" are totally full of ROBYNOSITY. tropical fish mandalas can spin in 4d when they're in the mood > I remember once that we had a discussion on the list about what songs were > most "Robyn-like", which is of course not to say, what songs talk about sea > creatures or insects the most, but rather, which have the highest > concentration of, er, Robynosity? Which are things that only one person in > the world could ever have come up with, that one person being RH? Any > thoughts? Is there a unit of measure for Robynosity? The thoth? plenty of thoughts, though some of them may be distorted by a strawberry screen. like [all i want to do is fall in love]." or, say, [pit of souls (country version)]. but sleeping with your devil mask has always brought out the anti-cynthia in me. <> > If we're talking albums, IMO probably "Globe of Frogs" rates highest. no way. invisible hitchcock + can of bees has been on my internal mixer all day. and eye all night. but raw cuts will always be my ultimate treat > Love on ya, > Susan and on yua => lyr / hlm n/p: good morning universe (ms. willcox yet again) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:11:34 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: eb all over > ultraSusan: > > > OK, question for the collector experts: any of you heard anything from GD > > live? Longtime fans: did you ever hear any of these live? Inquiring minds > > want to know. > > Assuming you don't mean "anything from the Grateful Dead," yes, he > has played some a fair bit. for example, aliara, sula, itania: a perfect sphere. slows. my crystal balls exploding. i am zora. aureala, for real this time. roshon ruion even agrees. [IEYA will always be the magic key for all-out language transformation. of the aramaic style, anyway.] > >St. Petersburg. Definitely. Yow. nah, not even close. i see babylonian ziggurats with my eyes inside out. [but just one jump to yuri's kitten, and there you go. mate in 1.5 or so.] but has he played my knife and my breadknife yet? i saw part of the video on m/2. +>>> ue allla! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 02:12:12 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: tour dates At 07:06 PM 7/4/99 -0400, four episode lesbian wrote: >August 8 Dallas Deep Ellum Live 8:00 >August 11 Atlanta Masquerade 8:00 If only they could schedule a Nashville stop in between... later, Miles, who's tired of going five years between RH and Richard Thompson shows ====================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal website http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles "If a million people say a stupid thing, it is still a stupid thing." -- Anatole France ====================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 01:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: mp3 not mtv Interesting subject line... the cover of the new Wired says "I Want My MP3". But of course, they fucked it up. Wired isn't about the promise of digital revolution anymore... it's about the profit of digital rehashing. Pisses me off. But we all know that freedom will win out. On Sat, 3 Jul 1999, Bayard wrote: > official feglist costello nay-sayer! I think my line of way back when stating that Elvis the Younger is full of "crappy sentimentality" alone should merit the prize. And I've said worse... and will again if that's what it takes. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:46:32 +0100 (BST) From: Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer Subject: Re: eb all over the world >>>>> "Terrence" == Terrence M Marks writes: >> (schulz is dead by now, isn't he?) Terrence> No. He's alive. If they're still making new Peanuts Terrence> cartoons, then it means he's alive. Hmm. I was pretty sure that CMS died several years ago, but can't find information on it. I sense a coverup. Being dead hasn't stopped Random House producing new Dr Seuss titles. At least the most recent (Hooray for Diffendoofer Day) makes no secret of being based on a few sketches by the good doctor. On Beyond Zebra! Stewart - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 10:53:35 +0100 (BST) From: Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer Subject: Re: UK Robyn >>>>> "jmbc" == jbranscombe@compuserve com writes: jmbc> There should be a medium-sized tour of the UK jmbc> in Sept/ Oct/Nov I believe. I can guarantee any Scottish date will be while I'll be in Guildford, CT. (I don't remember why I'm supposed to be there then.) jmbc> The last I heard for JFS release jmbc> on this sceptred isle was Sept 6th. I'm surprised that cdparadise.com aren't advertising it as '48 hour delivery' as they did with the Music Tapes CD I ordered three weeks ago . Any place that advertises 'Live at Cambridge Folk Festival' as "Folk/Gospel" must be missing something. jmbc> jmbc TMBG, I've heard of, but JMBC? 'Jhey might be cheesey'? Stewart (learning Welsh while Catherine learns Albanian, and we're both recovering from seeing "The Idiots".) - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 03:06:12 PDT From: Capitalism Blows Subject: Re: Artists' Intellectual Property "benefit" is a little broad. i mean, you could say that anyone who goes out and buys a record, if they like it, benefits from it. nevertheless, in my opinion, the answer is, yes they should be able to. if we disagree, that's fine. but as i said before, i'm of the opinion that once a work is released to the public, then it should be fair game for the public to do with it as it pleases. and remember, it doesn't *prevent* the originator from benefiting. yes, of course. i never said it was an ideal situation. but at least, if several uninvolved third parties partake of "stealing" for their own purposes, intellectual "property", it might serve to disempower the property-rights regime. which would be better than nothing. that said, upon reflection, i do think that this yahoo! thing is a horse of a different color. assuming that yahoo! would sue the pants off of any *other* third party attempting to reuse the original material --and, based upon users having signed the terms of agreement, would probably have a pretty decent case, legally speaking-- then, yeah, it is pretty fucked up. so i think that's the distinction: they're not attempting to "liberate" any "property", they're attempting to co-opt it and keep it locked up. so consider that a recantation. but i have to say, i still don't give a shit what they might choose to do with the material on my website. yeah, sure, it's evil for them to maybe profit from it. but saying a corporation does evil things is like saying that a bird has feathers, y'know? whoa. i never said the profits are a necessary evil. i think the profit system should be abolished, the sooner the better. i said that we all compromise our ideals, and that i'm not going to sit in judgement of others' compromises, while (though i might do so myself) wouldn't expect others to sit in judgement of mine own. but, again, this is just capitalism in a nutshell. so if you're going to argue that yahoo! should be stealing the labor of various webmasters, you ought also to be arguing that captains of industry shouldn't be stealing the labor of its workers. it's the *exact* same thing. yes, employees get paid. but we all know that capitalists don't do *anything*, and that laborers aren't paid for the full value of what they've created. and you could say that yahoo! partially compensates webmasters by offering free disk space. but how is it harming you? what do you care if somebody (that doesn't plan on retaining any rights) makes some money off of it? again, with the proviso that, in a perfect world, it wouldn't be necessary to try to make money at all. probably a little less abhorrent, because, at least they'd be up-front about their motives. when one creates and then sells a work of art, you have to wonder whether it was created for the art's sake, or for the sake of salability. jeez, that sounds awfully cynical, doesn't it? that was my first thought, too, naturally. but i still thought it was a damned funny article working for wages, period. look, if you're taking orders from somebody, you're not free. that is to say, if you have a god, you're a slave. if you have a boss, you're a slave. if you have a king, you're a slave. well, that's a bit different, because the pay would presumably have been for living expenses, leaving the artist with complete artistic freedom to create whatever he or she wanted. and this is totally different, because you're not paying for a work of art. you're paying for a service. just as some people are skilled at, i dunno, shucking corn, some others are good at drawing pictures. you didn't create the added value. your employee did, while you sat around on your fat ass all day long, and then maybe fired somebody at the end of the day. perhaps you're right. i can't really think of a reason why the commodification of art should be any more abhorrent than the commodification of any other area of human endeavour. but for some reason it just *seems* worse to hear david bowie's voice on a micro$schlong commercial than some professional pitchperson's. not so fast, buckeroo! think of ronald reagan. he went eight years and gave any number of "new" speeches, and issued "new" edicts and so on and so forth. didn't mean he was alive. but that's what i'm saying. *nobody* deserves *any* profits from it. but i think it's a step in the right direction if nobody has any rights to it. um, don't tell that to the capitalists! the whole history of capitalism has been in trying to make economies more like command economies, and less like free market economies. because free market capitalism is very, very bad for profits. the u.s. economy was, essentially, a command economy during world war ii, and it was a time of unprecedented prosperity for the bosses. then, after the war, the commands were relaxed, and we started slipping right back into the depression. we believed our own rhetoric, kinda-sorta, in other words. but, military keynesianism was quickly introduced, and capitalists haven't looked back since. also, if you want to see a good test-case comparing the effectiveness of command and free market economies, look at russia vs. brazil. russia was a very poor third world country in 1917. yes, the soviet union was a horribly tyranny, but it *did* industrialize very rapidly, and raised the standard of living of its citizens *immensely*. all the while, brazil, one of the most richest, bountiful countries in the world (in terms of resources) was used as a test-case, by the u.s., for its free market ideals. and it's now an absolute basket-case. um, how so? it was about as popular then as it is now. that is to say, it's was then and is now popular in the fantasies of certain intellectual hypocrites. it made and makes for good pr. but it's never been any way to run a successful (capitalist) economy. how did the united states industrialise? it wiped out the native population, and enslaved a *different* native population. cheap land. cheap labor. genocide and slavery. (not to mention massive state protection of national industries.) not exactly small market distortions. the chief liberal economic ideologues of the 1700's were the british. so, when india was industrialising ahead of britain. when british industries were complaining that they were unable to compete with indian, what happened? britain destroyed india's industrial capacity by force (and the did the same, on a smaller scale, to egypt). britain industrialised, india *de*-industrialised. another triumph of the "free" market. is this the general consensus, or is it just the *preferred* arrangement, because it helps to ensure profits by stifling competition? if you just think about it for ten seconds, doesn't what you say here sound completely illogical? and i'm done with this thread. so feel free to blast away with impunity. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. 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