From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #232 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, July 4 1999 Volume 08 : Number 232 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: terror . . . and deeper into jewels [MARKEEFE@aol.com] jewels pre-order [four episode lesbian ] Re: jewels pre-order [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: terror . . . and deeper into jewels [Joel Mullins ] Re: jewels pre-order [Ross Overbury ] Re: jewels pre-order ["Livia" ] Re: Artists' Intellectual Property ["Livia" ] Fwd: Re: eb all over the world [Capitalism Blows ] Re: mp3 not mtv [Capitalism Blows ] the face of death..... [S Dwarf ] mexican god lyrics [four episode lesbian ] Live? Yeah! [Ross Overbury ] It's the end of the world as we know it ... [Ross Overbury ] Re: Live? Yeah! ["Livia" ] Re: mexican god lyrics ["Livia" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 20:33:49 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: terror . . . and deeper into jewels In a message dated 7/3/99 3:52:05 PM Pacific Daylight Time, skmull@swbell.net writes: << So who here has the new Pavement album? >> Oh, I do! I do! << I bought it a few weeks ago, but I've been too busy listening to the OTC album to get into it much. Anyway, I've listened to it quite a bit this past week and I'm very impressed. I'd say it's my new #2 favorite. >> #2 favorite Pavement album or #2 fave of the year? I guess I'd have to say it'd be a tie for #3 on my Pavement list, after the tie for #1 with "Crooked Rain" and "Slanted," and with "Brighten the Corners." As far as its placement on whatever list I might scratch out for 1999's best, I'd guess maybe around #5 to #8 . . . somewhere in there. I'd guess at 7. One of many, many, many albums that I like quite a bit but not a ton (as I've mentioned probably twice already in recent posts). << It definitely hasn't the strongest ending of any album I've heard this year. It seems like there have been a lot of albums recently that started off great but then ended pretty weakly. But the last 5 songs are probably my favorite on the Pavement album. >> Did you mean "definitely *has* the strongest ending"? I'm guessing that's what Joel meant here. Hmmm. I think the songs I like are pretty evenly scattered throughout the album, although the last two ("The Hexx" and "Carrot Rope") are a couple of my favorites, along with "You Are a Light" and maybe "Spit on a Stranger" (or maybe that song is just generally likeable, but really nothing special -- hard to tell). Meanwhile, I've decided that I like "Jewels for Sophia" more than I thought I did just a couple of days ago. Rather than just listening to it in the store, I played in my car. Aided my appreciation a bit. Oh, and I played it for a customer (nearly the entire thing!) today, and she really loved it. Yay! So, somehow, sharing that experience made me enjoy it a little more, too. A few people have cited "Sally Was a Legend" as their favorite track, but I think it might be my least favorite. I don't dislike it at all; just sayin'. Or it could be "I Don't Remember Guildford," although I liked that lots better with the closer, whilst-drivin'-around listen. "Elizabeth Jade" and "Antwoman" have also gained my affections, which is cool, because my initial raction was that songs 7 through 10 kinda slumped a bit. But not so much so anymore! I'd have to say that "JfS" has rocketed up into my top 5 for the year and may well become a "2nd tier" Robyn album for me on down the line (was that Susan who had these clumped rankings based on tiers? I like that way of thinkin' 'bout albums). I can't wait for the album to come out! I want people to buy it and love it. I wanna see the artwork and (hopefully) read a weird little story in the liner notes. Ya-hoo! - ------Michael K. np, Built to Spill, "Keep it Like a Secret," which is maybe still just a notch above "JfS" for the year . . . and maybe just a notch below "Apple Venus" . . . but it's a close (and universally compelling, I'm sure!) race :-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 21:14:13 -0400 From: four episode lesbian Subject: jewels pre-order for those who wish to, _jewels for sophia_ can now be pre-ordered from cdnow for $12.99. since they have goofy urls, the easiest way to find it is to go to and do a search on robyn's name. it will be listed in the search results. woj / / / n.p. kila -- tog e go bog e ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:58:25 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: jewels pre-order In a message dated 7/3/99 6:26:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, woj@smoe.org writes: << for those who wish to, _jewels for sophia_ can now be pre-ordered from cdnow for $12.99. since they have goofy urls, the easiest way to find it is to go to and do a search on robyn's name. it will be listed in the search results. >> And, for those who possibly can, please shop your local independent retailer :-) - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 22:03:34 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: terror . . . and deeper into jewels MARKEEFE@aol.com wrote: > #2 favorite Pavement album or #2 fave of the year? #2 fave of the year. But the list seems to change daily. > Did you mean "definitely *has* the strongest ending"? I'm guessing > that's what Joel meant here. Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry for the confusion. I'll try to be more careful. - --Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 23:12:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Ross Overbury Subject: Re: jewels pre-order On Sat, 3 Jul 1999 MARKEEFE@aol.com wrote: > And, for those who possibly can, please shop your local independent > retailer :-) Or even one from another country. I did, and I probably will again if I'm ever going to hear the JFS LP! (note that I spelled LP correctly tonight even though my dad gave me a coupl'a'beers). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:13:21 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: jewels pre-order some of us don't have easy transportation to our local whatever but my pre-order is sitting in my CDN shoping cart right now >>kila -- tog e go bog e doggie already went boggie, thank you very much i'll just go on playing groovy decay until the need for phoenix becomes irresistible - ---------- > From: MARKEEFE@aol.com > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: Re: jewels pre-order > Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 6:58 PM > > In a message dated 7/3/99 6:26:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, woj@smoe.org > writes: > > << for those who wish to, _jewels for sophia_ can now be pre-ordered from > cdnow for $12.99. since they have goofy urls, the easiest way to find it is > to go to and do a search on robyn's name. it > will be listed in the search results. >> > > And, for those who possibly can, please shop your local independent > retailer :-) > > ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jul 1999 21:27:24 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: Artists' Intellectual Property > From: Knaurr > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: Artists' Intellectual Property >Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 5:12 PM > There was a "La" heard at Sat, 03 Jul 1999 02:17:41 PDT from the lips of > Captialism Blows: well, lucky old eddie. irvine and jordania can split that one right down > >> >>intellectual property.> > > >er, do my envelope decorations count? > As a long-time envelope artist, my answer is an empatic "you betcha". and while i don't even know which e-deco asked the question, i emphatically third the answer. my doodles seem to end up plastered all over the planet (if you like wacky fir cone fractal arrow thingies, that is), and i certainly have more than enough not to mind it obne nbit. [not a deliberate typo for e. nesbit, but i'dappreciate a reminder of her real name, since that "old men and new women" book is in a box somewhere in bel-red.] > >> >>requires a decent amount of labour. I think that there's something wrong > >>with cheating people out of their labour, be it physical or mental.> > >but speaking to this point, i think the question is, if somebody creates and > >developes intellectual "property", should they be profiting from it, at all? > See, the question isn't "should the person who created the art benefit > financially from it?" the question that the Yahoo issue has raised is: > "Should an uninvolved party be able to benefit from a creator's creation > without the creator's consent or involvement?" if enough people want to offer a valid proxy, sure, why not? and anything scribbled on a wall is free for the taking, as far as i'm concerned. > Yahoo is now saying that they do not OWN anything that is on their > websites, but it still claims the ability to reproduce the content in any > way for any purpose. Should this be agreed to and allowed? > Now, your point of view (as I have gathered it, please correct me if I'm > wrong) is that selling one's intellectual property is an "abhorrent > concept". As someone who is anti-capitalist, that's understandable. But > again, as an anti-capitalist, isn't it abhorrent to you that some third > party is claiming rights to the content of millions and millions of > websites and reserves the right to profit from that content if the third > party so desires? Just think of a creative base that huge. then warn anyone who cares about losing money or limited rights to be cautious around places like yahoo. {nb: i have at least five alters there, and all publicly profiled. but then i like playing name games and leaving tidbits for the half-blind chickies. and perhaps a cicer or two might slip through the crack...} > If we are to agree that profits are a necessary evil, should profits > result from some sort of labor? Shouldn't you DO something to EARN that > profit? Yahoo has this massive creative base and wanted to be able to > capitalize on that creative base without doing anything and without > compensating the people that did do something. I believe that is what the > original objection to Yahoo's actions was. > Now, I'm a poet, and one of considerable talent (so I've been told). I > choose to publish my poetry on the web instead of being published and > selling it. I used to display on Geocities. Should Yahoo be able to > profit from MY poetic ability? Should they, if they so desired, be able to > package my poetry and try to sell it, when I don't wish to charge for it > myself? What is the point of bootlegging something free? And is it not > more abhorrent than me publishing my own book of poetry? er, that's a bit too many double negative twisters for my broken glasses and current locale to decipher just now. but i like to sell my stories, if only because that's a mark of minor success and professional respect, in that a worthy peer considered them worth some small but genuine sum. so it's the respect that matters for me, because i can always earn money some other way, like programming or editing or playing with the mixers. > Granted, it's not likely to happen, but the fact that Yahoo reserves the > right to do it if they so desire. Something about that strikes me as > fundamentally wrong. agreed. > How many independent musicians, cartoonists, poets, authors, graphic > artists, performance artists, photographers, lyricists, and whatever other > kinds of "creators" you can think of...have a page on geocities where they > display their works of art? Some of them, yes, choose to distribute their > art in return for monetary compensation, and you don't agree with that. > But the point is that no matter what, some third party capitalists > shouldn't be able to swoop into a free market, swipe samples and sell them > for a profit. i signed up at geocities but never created any page at all, if only because of their crappy tools. and the account expired in april. but anticlimactic.org is a bvit more up my alley, if i ever get around to doing more than plastering my name and code on brent's (and matt's, err head's, richard's, cynbe ru taren's, etc) walls > > Gosh, and I didn't even belong to the debate team. i didn't really know there was one. well, until someone started whispering over my shoulder and/or through that little toy window over there. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 01:19:56 PDT From: Capitalism Blows Subject: Fwd: Re: eb all over the world terry sent this to me only, but it's clearly intended for the list. so i'm forwarding it (without even asking, too). and then i'll reply to it, um, someday. next week, perhaps. go out and burn a flag tomorrow, huh? From: Terrence M Marks To: Capitalism Blows Subject: Re: eb all over the world Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 02:17:14 -0400 (EDT) >From etews@hotmail.com Sat Jul 3 22:58:00 1999 Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 02:17:41 PDT From: Capitalism Blows To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: eb all over the world I went to see Zetafest today. Featured Everclear, Def Leppard, Crease, Pound, Orgy and a bunch of other similar bands. I already knew rock was dead, but I hadn't realized just _how_ dead it was until today. I don't think there's a point in listening to rock music any more. How do country and jazz look these days? >which terry, at least, oughta get a kick out of: > They describe the cover of Ummagumma (a main point of the article) entirely wrong. No mirrors were involved. With each recursion, the bandmembers switched positions (eg. In the second pic, Roger stands where Nick was standing in the first pic). It's impossible to do that with mirrors, as near as I can tell. There's no refraction and no mirrors. Just a recursive picture. I'm not much more impressed with the rest of the article. >>Now, I don't know if you've ever actually worked on creating unique >>intellectual property. >er, do my envelope decorations count? Yes, technically. Possibly. Depends on fair use. >just for the hell of it, let me ask if you consider wage-slavery cheating >workers out of their labour? Depends on what exactly you mean by wage-slavery. If you're talking about, say, actual wage slavery as per the British taxation of Africans during the imperial days, wherein poll taxes were employed to force Africans to work on British terms, then yes, that was cheating people out of their labour. If you're talking about factory shop systems, wherein workers must buy basic items from their employers and always wind up owing slightly more than they can earn, then that's cheating also. What precisely are you referring to? >but speaking to this point, i think the question is, if somebody creates >and developes intellectual "property", should they be profiting from it, >at all? If the property is a salable item, then they should. >let's just keep strictly to works of art (granting that this may be a >bit tricky to define.) should art and commerce mix? i would argue, no, >they should not. Why not? The best works of the Renaissance (poetry, painting and music) were commissioned, you know. If I happen to want (to make up a wildly outlandish example) 20 pictures drawn of a certain group of anthropomorphic animals in specific situations, why shouldn't I get someone who can draw well to do it and why shouldn't I pay said person for his or her troubles? >i would also argue that profits should be eradicated *entirely*, >*everywhere*. Ok. You're welcome to argue that. Unfortunately, we're dealing with a context in which that ain't gonna happen any time in the forseeable future. As we have a situation which we cannot change in any meaningful way, the problem should be approached in the context of that situation. You also seem to be going against just about every plausible theory of economics. If I have $5 worth of raw materials and process it into something else, what is the evil in me selling the processed goods for $6 per? >isn't the selling of one's creativity a rather abhorrent concept? or is >it just me? I think that it's just you. If you can create a product that people want, there is nothing morally worse about allowing them to buy it from you. If you have a marketable talent in a field, why shouldn't you be able to market it? I don't see anything at all wrong with it. >or, i should be able to sell my decorated envelopes >without paying off to the schulz estate. (schulz is dead by now, isn't >he?) No. He's alive. If they're still making new Peanuts cartoons, then it means he's alive. Whether you ought to pay Schulz depends on what precisely the limitations of fair use are in this case. >if you release a work to the public, you have released your rights to it. Ok. You're "kwazy". Can you explain how this would be an improvement over all other possible systems? Let's say I record a version of "Cold July Rain" and sell 5 copies to my friends. Let's also say that one of my friends duplicates this disc and sells 10 million copies. At a profit of $2 per disc, would you care to explain why my friend deserves $20 million, I deserve $10, and James Dignan deserves nothing? >the other side of this issue, which i've always found a bit (though just a >bit, because we know that capitalists/capitalist sympathisers are the >biggest hypocrites to ever come down the pike) baffling is: whatever >happened to the free market? Well, that depends on what you mean by "free market". Most capitalist folks use it in contrast to command economies. Capitalism has, thus far, been a better alternative to command economies. You use it to mean extreme laissez-faire capitalism. It's entirely possible to have a free market that includes copyrights, patents, legal restrictions, safety regulations, etc. I think that you're confusing capitalists and extreme libertarians. >but, as i say, one only has to take a most cursory look at the >history of state intervention into the economy on the behalf of private >property to know that capitalists have *never* believed in the "free >market". No, laissez-faire economics was quite popular in the 1700s if I recall. But this is all rather irrelevant to the central issue. The general consensus is that patents, copyrights and trademarks encourage new developments rather than retard them (yeah, maybe The Man is keeping Negativland down. Negativland is not the standard case.) The general consensus is that patents &c can be enforced without losing any significant amount of freedom in market operation. - -------------------- Knaurr said: > See, the question isn't "should the person who created the art benefit >financially from it?" the question that the Yahoo issue has raised is: >"Should an uninvolved party be able to benefit from a creator's creation >without the creator's consent or involvement?" One important note: Most publishers demand exclusive rights to things. Were Fred's Book on Geocities at one point, Yahoo could legally print up Fred's Book T-shirts, sequels and copies of the book. While this is bad, it's fairly likely that Yahoo won't go into the T-shirt business for the sake of ripping Fred off. What's bad is that Fred can't sell the Publishing Co. exclusive rights to the book or his characters, because Yahoo has rights to it also, hence the work is less valuable. Some people have objected to Yahoo's ability to edit pages. I don't see what's wrong with that. It's their house and their rules, and they have a right to exercise reasonable editorial control over their space. What gets me is that they're demanding publishing rights far in exess and on much worse terms of what they would plausibly need, that these rights supersede all other agreements and that they claim that this is just a standard thing as opposed to a massive loss of rights. np-Vervian "A Basketful of Razors", a Ft. Laud. local release. If anyone around here has heard it, I'd dig their opinions on it. I'd describe it as very experimental light metal, personally. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 01:22:49 PDT From: Capitalism Blows Subject: Re: mp3 not mtv and so here are all the arizona shows. man, i was way off with my guess! Sat 18 Mar 1989 Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians Arizona State University Tempe Arizona US Tue 22 May 1990 Robyn Hitchcock Anderson's 5th Estate Scottsdale Arizona US Tue 7 Jul 1992 Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians After The Gold Rush Tempe Arizona US Fri 23 Apr 1993 Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians Compton Phoenix Arizona US Sat 15 Jul 1995 Robyn Hitchcock Phoenix Festival Phoenix Arizona US _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 07:06:56 -0700 (PDT) From: S Dwarf Subject: the face of death..... /stolen from sfgate.com/ Lead singer of Boston rock group Morphine dies in Italy Sunday, July 4, 1999 (07-04) 06:00 PDT ROME (AP) -- The lead singer of the Boston rock band Morphine, Mark Sandman, has died of a heart attack at a concert outside Rome, police said Sunday. Sandman, 47, collapsed on stage in front of several thousand spectators just before midnight Saturday night. A doctor tried to revive him and failed, police said, and Sandman was pronounced dead en route to a nearby hospital. The ANSA news agency said he collapsed during the group's second number at a concert at a three-day music festival at the Giardini del Principe in Palestrina outside Rome. The festival endsSunday and ANSA said the final night will be dedicated to Sandman, who played bass, sang and wrote songs. Morphine is a guitar-less trio which includes Dana Colley on saxophone and Billy Conway on drums. The band started out playing loft parties and bars around Boston and Cambridge in the early 1990s and built a solid cult following. Morphine has released four albums: Good, Cure for Pain, yes, and Like Swimming. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 10:15:39 -0400 From: four episode lesbian Subject: mexican god lyrics oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop chip chip chipper up in the crow's nest upside down face but it's still sore a lot flaking off breaking off crumbled and cracking time will destroy you like a mexican god dreaming your eyes awake close to the future pray for amnesia to finish you off this is the evil i wished on so many time will destroy you like a mexican god moon in a cup crushed garlic and babies ??? sailors all stagnant and bloating and rough the horror of you floats so close by my window at least when i die your memory will too oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop cruel magnificent roasting your people i am secure at the end of your rod cut out my heart and it flies to the ceiling time will destroy you like a mexican god time will destroy you like a mexican god time will destroy you oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop oooooooo ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:30:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Ross Overbury Subject: Live? Yeah! OK, so Livvy's played the Queen of Surrealisms, and it looks like she's laid down about half of the Posting Frequency suit. Anybody want to swallow the 2 of Frequencies before she gets Control? - -- Mr. Jones ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 14:34:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Ross Overbury Subject: It's the end of the world as we know it ... You're all aware, of course, that today is the day that Nostradamus predicted would be the end of the world. If he's wrong, I'm never going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. If he's right, I'm never going to pay any attention to his prophesies again. Somebody play the 2 of Frequencies; I'll eat it! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:55:46 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: drum solos > From: dmw > To: Livia > Subject: Re: drum solos > Date: Sunday, July 04, 1999 8:48 AM > > On Sat, 3 Jul 1999, Livia wrote: > > > > penelope houston, i guess... > > > > any relation to odysseus? > > ha! ariadne, more likley. i'd rather stop spinning and catch something worthwhile in my web. > > > neutral milk hotel need to release another record or two before > > > > i'd like to hear something of theirs sometime. > > i'd recommend _in the aeroplane over the sea_ without hesitation where would i get it? > > i've got a message for you has been played at nearly every "gig" > > i've attended. [hmm. UW spring 1992 through summer 97, i think. > > dunno about *every* gig, but i've sure him do that a lot. i think woj > has taken to leaving the room when it is performed. silly woj. but then, maybe the messages aren't for him. > > > - "seventeen!" cried the humbug, always first with the wrong answer. > > > > ten points for silver milo! and -2 for poor little lonely fuschia. > > ...and a couple dozen bonus points for creating context where none was > before. apropos of nothing: read phillip pullman's _the golden compass_? > i was mightily impressed. haven't ventured the sequel yet. also recently > finally got 'round to ende's _neverrending story_; both leave you with > something that sticks besides the plot. and where do i find those? stories? novels? > -- d. > > n.p. van gogh's daughter _shove_ shove something into his big brown ear, why don't you? i like the x-rated bonus mix of toyah's "now and then" (phoenix) myself. it would mix nicely with, say, agony of pleasure. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 11:58:48 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: Live? Yeah! > From: Ross Overbury > To: fegmaniax@smoe.org > Subject: Live? Yeah! > Date: Sunday, July 04, 1999 8:30 AM > > OK, so Livvy's played the Queen of Surrealisms, and it looks like she's > laid down about half of the Posting Frequency suit. Anybody want to > swallow the 2 of Frequencies before she gets Control? please! maybe i can close my eyes and pick someone at !quite random i really want the other half. more than pretty much anything, in fact, aand certainly more than more moonlight wild goose chases and homemade surreal estate. > Mr. Jones janet, turn it around! don't leave us alone ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 12:17:39 -0700 From: "Livia" Subject: Re: mexican god lyrics > Subject: mexican god lyrics > Date: Sunday, July 04, 1999 7:15 AM > > oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop > oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop what's they key? i'm not very good at improvising without plenty of hints. > chip chip chipper up in the crow's nest > upside down face but it's still sore a lot > flaking off breaking off crumbled and cracking > time will destroy you like a mexican god what, like the aztec type gods whose priests cut people's hearts out and fed them to the alter? that's a bit harsh. he'd rather be eaten by his own dinner, i think. and after eight hours downside up in bellevue, the crow deserves a little chance to catch up {{now, if i'm not entirely crazy, this is the part of now and then where he whispers something like "let me write with lemon pen". she tried a banana and a yellow highlighter, but they didn't quite seem to do the trick.}} > dreaming your eyes awake close to the future > pray for amnesia to finish you off > this is the evil i wished on so many > time will destroy you like a mexican god when i close my eyes, i hear so many sweet somethings, but they never quite manage to materialize. or maybe her timing is just hopelessly off. > moon in a cup crushed garlic and babies ??? > sailors all stagnant and bloating and rough > the horror of you floats so close by my window > at least when i die your memory will too don't bet on it, baby. the moon will gobble them up. > oooooooo wop shoo wadda wop > oooooooo wop / shoo wadda wop oh babe / don't leave me alone > cruel magnificent roasting your people > i am secure at the end of your rod > cut out my heart and it flies to the ceiling a red balloon! or maybe just the chili lights in the corner. angling is something i can only do well in trigonometric terms > time will destroy you like a mexican god > time will destroy you like a mexican god > time will destroy you first they try and use him. i know what i heard. and he's plenty tired of her over-randomizing, i'm sure, but it's hard to stop spinning once you've started. just ask a dreidel. don't / you / leave me alone! janet is such a bloody gyroscope. but the center gets closer all the time. is that a shirt in my rowan tree, or am i just happy to look up? someone else play astarte for a while, hmm? or at least finish what she started. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #232 *******************************