From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #216 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, June 22 1999 Volume 08 : Number 216 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 ["chad leahy" ] Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 [Capuchin ] Question: Flaming Robyn Tour??? [The Great Quail ] Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 [ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com] RE: Teddy Thompson [Cynthia Peterson ] Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr." ] RE: Question: Flaming Robyn Tour??? ["Thomas, Ferris" ] Jewels for Paddling Sophia! [MARKEEFE@aol.com] jeme, don't read this either [Bayard ] Nor this (Re: Rules for Paddling Sophia!) [Bayard ] Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 [normal@grove.ufl.edu] Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 [Eb ] Re: jeme, don't read this either [Bayard ] Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 [Capuchin ] another URL for Eddie [Bayard ] Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 [Terrence M Marks ] Jeme, don't read this. [Bayard ] Re: i'm so damn sick of the subject line "chai tea" [Eb ] Re: Revenge of the Platform Wars (boring to non-geeks) [ultraconformist@m] Kabal para mi [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Re: Revenge of the Platform Wars (boring to non-geeks) [Capuchin Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 >recommend any other books on the subject, Apple Confidential:The Real Story of Apple Computer, Inc. by Owen W. Linzmayer chad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 11:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, West wrote: > I felt a tad let down. Not knowing much of anything about this story, I > followed it with great interest, but it seemed that just as things were > really going good, the movie just jumped ahead to its ending. There's gotta > be a whole bunch of stuff between the introduction of the Ridley Scott > commercial and Steve Jobs' final comeuppance at the hands of Bill Gates. If > anyone knows the name of the book upon which the movie is based, or can > recommend any other books on the subject, I think I'll get a more > comprehensive view of the tale that way. The film was based on Fire In The Valley, which isn't a very good book. You're better off with Robert X. Cringley's work including the documentary Triumph Of The Nerds which aired on PBS and is widely available on video. > I did enjoy the performances though. I don't know how accurate they are, > but I was fascinated by Noah Wyle's portrayal of Steve Jobs. Again, please > excuse my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Jobs was one of the > good guys, yet here he is being a giant asshole. It's funny how there are these archetypes associated with this mess. Jobs and Gates and Woz and Allen and all of those guys are real people. Gates is a megalomaniac and a sometimes quiet, nice guy who is greedy and mean. Jobs is a sociopath and a sometimes quiet, nice guy who is controlling and weird. People are complex. > I was also struck by the thought of how little people may know about > the men and women who have altered our lives, for both good and evil. > You'd think we would take more of an interest. There are HEAPS of good books on the subject. I'm sure Carole could point you to the more popular ones. I'd recommend (in addition to the above) Insanely Great (on the history of Apple), Steve Jobs And The Next Big Thing (shows about all the lying about revenue and the weird connections between Jobs, Gates and Ross Perot), and Big Blues: The Unmaking of IBM. There are dozens of others. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:14:07 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Question: Flaming Robyn Tour??? I thought that the Flaming Lips/Robyn show was playing NYC tonight . . . but LJ and I can't find it listed in any magazine, paper, or Web site. Does anyone know what's up? Was it cancelled? And why does the Lips site only start listing dates in July? Why is the sky blue? - --Quail, packing for California +---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:25:28 -0600 From: ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 >g wrote: > >> fegs, >> >> Any thoughts on TNT's "Pirates of Silicon Valley" that aired last night? Yeah. I thought I regretted having forgotten to watch it. Now that the reviews are coming in, I think I don't regret it so much. It sounds rather....tabloidish. >but I was fascinated by Noah Wyle's portrayal of Steve Jobs. Again, please >excuse my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Jobs was one of the >good guys, yet here he is being a giant asshole. Weeellll......as far as I'm concerned, the Macintosh is a good machine. From what I've heard, Steve Jobs IS a jerk, but he isn't trying to take over the world, and /rant/ AFAIK he doesn't try to pull the kind of shit that Gates tried to pull with Java, or for that matter, with that Explorer interface thingie that comes with Win 98. Howeeeee! Man! Can we spell "invasive"? Paying for Win '98 fixes that were previously available for free as patches on the Microsoft site? Can we spell "greedy"? And the planned obsolescence thing? Gimme an O, gimme a B, gimme an S-C-E-N-E! OBSCENE!/rant off/ The reason I'm an Apple zealot has to do with the machines and the business decisions that affect me as a user (such as that razzafraggin' win 98- that is OUTRAGEOUS). Quite frankly, I love this machine and I hate the Wintel Borg. That's really sorta it. It doesn't have much to do with Steve Jobs' sterling personal qualities. Actually, something we are talking about in this house is switching everybody to Linux. But it may just be talk. Oh, as to Gates being able to buy DOS so cheap- I'm surprised they didn't talk about this in the movie, but basically $50,000 was a lot of money back then, especially for an operating system- nobody thought there was any money to be made in them, they thought the major profits would always be in hardware. Really. Seems astounding, but it's true. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 12:29:17 -0700 From: Cynthia Peterson Subject: RE: Teddy Thompson This just in from my friend and RT expert in Atlanta, who was also fortunate to attend the show... > It was AMAZING. Tiny little venue. Teddy has a great voice and is a > respectable guitarist. 150 minutes of pure joy. 10 songs from the > upcoming "Mock Tudor"-- mostly very good, one truly astounding. > > PS, I researched the answer to the Teddy question for my friend > Christine who went to the show with me... > > Teddy is Richard and Linda's second child (of three), Richard's third > (of five). He was born Abu Dharr Thompson (during R&L's Sufi phase) > in 1975. After R&L split, the name was Anglicized to Adam. I don't > know how they got Teddy from there... - -----Original Message----- From: bibigellert@earthlink.net [mailto:bibigellert@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 6:04 PM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Teddy Thompson Once again I turn to the experts on the Fegmaniax list. Sunday night I was fortunate enough to see Richard Thompson play an extremely small club in Atlanta. It was a wonderful show, and featured his son Teddy. A friend who came with me, who is a big fan of Richard's, was curious about Teddy-is he Linda's son, or not? I told him I would ask the Fegs. Thanks in advance. Bibi G ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:36:11 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 >From: g (I think) > >Any thoughts on TNT's "Pirates of Silicon Valley" that aired last night? I absolutely loved it. I thought it was a real hoot. It made me proud that the ProtoGeeks (well, the Apple guys. I'm not too keen on the Microsofters, but hey, every action has its equal and opposite reaction) were there on the teevee being co-opted by the Hollywood machine. They've finally jumped out of the articles in computer magazines to the tv screen -- and it's about goddamned time. Sure, TNT fudged the facts a bit, but at least they thought enough of the subject to make a movie out if it, and I tip my hat at them for doing it. Come on, the work of Jobs and Gates (and Woz and Ballmer and Allen and so on) made possible what I do today (full-time web.geek) and informs one helluva lot of what comprises our current culture. It's time they got their props. (Sure, they'd get better props if Scorcese had made the movie, but whaddayagonnado?) And seeing the New Entrepreneurs stomp on the Old Blue guys rocked. We need more tv like that. I'm currently surprised (but then again, I'm not) by the moaning and gnashing of teeth regarding the general lack of truthfulness, but hello? this is a made-for-tv movie! Remember "temporary suspension of disbelief" anyone? And besides, there is no better poetic justice for Gates than to be portrayed by Michael "Farmer Ted" Anthony Hall faking some Travolta moves at a roller rink. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:39:40 -0400 From: "Thomas, Ferris" Subject: RE: Question: Flaming Robyn Tour??? I've been checking the Voice religiously and haven't seen anything. I'm under the impression that it's Coast/East Coast (i.e. sometime in August). - -f. - -----Original Message----- From: The Great Quail [mailto:quail@panix.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 3:14 PM To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Question: Flaming Robyn Tour??? I thought that the Flaming Lips/Robyn show was playing NYC tonight . . . but LJ and I can't find it listed in any magazine, paper, or Web site. Does anyone know what's up? Was it cancelled? And why does the Lips site only start listing dates in July? Why is the sky blue? - --Quail, packing for California +---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:02:07 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Question: Flaming Robyn Tour??? On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, The Great Quail wrote: > I thought that the Flaming Lips/Robyn show was playing NYC tonight . . . > but LJ and I can't find it listed in any magazine, paper, or Web site. Does > anyone know what's up? according to robyn's webmaestro: "Due to a delay in visa renewal the few American dates which had been slated for June are now cancelled. Robyn will still be part of the Flaming Lips tour, which begins July 13th and continues to late August. These tour dates will be posted soon." Maybe you'll get to see a big rubber gloster show soon, though > --Quail, packing for California pecking for cornophilia?!?!? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:11:44 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Jewels for Paddling Sophia! I got a promo for the new Robyn this morning! YAY!! I like it a lot, based on my first listen. Then again, it's hard to be objective :-) Let's see . . . it's got a slightly more "produced" feel than "Moss Elixir," but not by much. Actually, several of the songs have a very live-in-studio feel. I'd say that Robyn was right in describing it as more straightforwrdly rocking, although I still wouldn't call it anything near a "loud" or a "really rockin' out" record. Recent live staples like "Viva! Sea-Tac," "Nasa Clapping," and "Cheese Alarm" are nicely beefed up by a full-band sound. "You've Got a Sweet Mouth, Baby" is wonderfully unadorned (such a great "songwriter's song," ya know?). And the album ends just right with "Dark Princess" and the title track, both of which are great tunes. But, actually, the CD doesn't end there! There's some bonus material tagged onto the last track, the first half of which I can't identify and the latter half of which is a live version of "Gene Hackman," which will be a treat for those who don't have tapes of any recent shows, cuz it's a great song. So, overall, I'd say we have a winner here. I'd give it a solid 7/10. Probably even a 15/20 on the EbScale. Oh, right, the subject line: The promo package for "Jewels for Sophia" is a clear purple (anyone else seen a different color?) plastic case that's mostly shaped like a disc, but with protrusions along one edge (like one of those uniquely identifiable Eggo waffles) with which one might grip the thing and use it as a ping-pong paddle. Bonus fun! Michael K., np Pretenders "Viva el Amor," which is a darn solid album so far . . . mostly just cleansing the palate, though, before listen #2 to "Jewels" - -- John, Michael, Jeme, Carole: Come on down for a listen!! :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:27:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: jeme, don't read this either The recording industry is finally getting with the internet program: http://www.wired.com/news/news/culture/story/20317.html also, it's been decided in court that the Rio is not a recording device and the recording industry's suit has been defeated. there are many more riolike (portable mp3 player) devices on the way... And check out the latest fegculture item at the Glass Hotel! If you're a regular, you're probably featured here! ("capuchin" was sadly not in the kabalarian database, but some pretty surprising names were!) http://158.72.105.122/gh/fegnames.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:30:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Nor this (Re: Rules for Paddling Sophia!) On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 MARKEEFE@aol.com wrote: > is a live version of "Gene Hackman," which will be a treat Jeme! You CAN do the Elvis version! all RIGHT! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:09:06 -0400 (EDT) From: normal@grove.ufl.edu Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > switched over to the Brian Wilson Biography on A & E. Of course, I only > saw the first 15 minutes. I've seen at least three Brian Wilson/Beach Boys bios on TV. Not one mentioned Holland, Sail on Sailor, Blondie or Ricky. You'd figure they'd mention how they dragged Brian out of seclusion and forced him to collaborate with Van Dyke Parks to write his last hit for the Beach Boys, or interview Fataar or Chaplin, considering the number of touring Beach Boys they brought in. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 14:55:38 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 Terrence: >I've seen at least three Brian Wilson/Beach Boys bios on TV. Not one >mentioned Holland, Sail on Sailor, Blondie or Ricky. You'd figure they'd >mention how they dragged Brian out of seclusion and forced him to >collaborate with Van Dyke Parks to write his last hit for the Beach Boys, >or interview Fataar or Chaplin, considering the number of touring Beach >Boys they brought in. Most folks would judge those two as minor characters in the Beach Boys story, dude. Anyway, I was far more offended that they didn't interview Steven Roback. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:00:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: jeme, don't read this either i added a couple more names, and put the text in bold, which is a standard way of trying to make text more readable on my Funky Backgrounds (tm). > > http://158.72.105.122/gh/fegnames.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 15:10:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com wrote: > Yeah. I thought I regretted having forgotten to watch it. Now that the > reviews are coming in, I think I don't regret it so much. It sounds > rather....tabloidish. I suppose it WAS a bit tabloidish... it was a dramatization of stuff I'd seen before. There was some falsehood, some exaggeration, some dumbing down... but that was all expected. I am still impressed with the characterization. > >but I was fascinated by Noah Wyle's portrayal of Steve Jobs. Again, please > >excuse my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Jobs was one of the > >good guys, yet here he is being a giant asshole. > Weeellll......as far as I'm concerned, the Macintosh is a good machine. This has nothing at all to do with Steve Jobs. > >From what I've heard, Steve Jobs IS a jerk, but he isn't trying to take > over the world, That seems to imply that someone else DOES want to take over the world. Don't tell me that Steve Jobs would TURN DOWN a little monopoly of his own. He's a business man. He SELLS his software. He's not exactly a great humanitarian. > and /rant/ AFAIK he doesn't try to pull the kind of shit > that Gates tried to pull with Java, or for that matter, with that Explorer > interface thingie that comes with Win 98. Howeeeee! Man! Can we spell > "invasive"? Paying for Win '98 fixes that were previously available for > free as patches on the Microsoft site? Can we spell "greedy"? And the > planned obsolescence thing? Gimme an O, gimme a B, gimme an S-C-E-N-E! > OBSCENE!/rant off/ That's the folly of commercial software. > The reason I'm an Apple zealot has to do with the machines and the business > decisions that affect me as a user (such as that razzafraggin' win 98- that > is OUTRAGEOUS). Quite frankly, I love this machine and I hate the Wintel > Borg. That's really sorta it. It doesn't have much to do with Steve Jobs' > sterling personal qualities. So you're pro-Apple because you're anti-Microsoft? Come on... there are lots of other things you could be doing with your computers that wouldn't give a dime to either of them. > Actually, something we are talking about in this house is switching > everybody to Linux. But it may just be talk. That's a start. NetBSD is nice, too. It all depends on what you want to do with the machines. > Oh, as to Gates being able to buy DOS so cheap- I'm surprised they didn't > talk about this in the movie, but basically $50,000 was a lot of money back > then, especially for an operating system- nobody thought there was any > money to be made in them, they thought the major profits would always be in > hardware. Really. Seems astounding, but it's true. What's astounding is that people think there's STILL money in software. The money to be made on software has been made. With the exception of enterprise application support and licensing, the market's gone. Consumer software is dead. The gamers might have a word or two on the subject before it's truly over, but that's about it. Microsoft's entire strategy today is "make use of things you have" which really means "you're locked into our old stuff, so buy our new stuff, too". Apple's selling point is half anti-Microsoft and half "I don't want to know how to use a computer". Both prey on ignorance. Ah, hell.. you guys all know my rant. If someone is trying to sell you software, they're going to build in some method of getting you to pay for it later. Free Software is good for you. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:04:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: another URL for Eddie http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/8897/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:05:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Eb wrote: > Most folks would judge those two as minor characters in the Beach Boys > story, dude. Anyway, I was far more offended that they didn't interview > Steven Roback. They were on two studio albums and wrote some of their own material, which is more than a lot of the touring Beach Boys they interviewed could claim. They're as important as Daryl Dragon or most of the other folks interviewed were. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:13:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Jeme, don't read this. someone said: >I think ye need even more names: Dave, Doug, Gene, Joel, Glen, Carole, Karen, Stewart, Katherine, Luther and Dolph! Okay, why not just make it everyone who's ever posted and be done with it..< If anyone feels left out, visit Kabalarians.com and cut and paste your analysis and send it to me! Also feel free to comment on whose reading is most/least accurate. The illnesses are a little weird. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 16:23:40 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: i'm so damn sick of the subject line "chai tea" Terrence: >> Most folks would judge those two as minor characters in the Beach Boys >> story, dude. Anyway, I was far more offended that they didn't interview >> Steven Roback. > >They were on two studio albums and wrote some of their own material, which >is more than a lot of the touring Beach Boys they interviewed could claim. >They're as important as Daryl Dragon or most of the other folks >interviewed were. They were on two whole albums out of the Beach Boys' vast catalog, during a not-too-popular period. Wow. I'm surprised they didn't get top billing. Anyway, the rationale is easy to understand: Daryl Dragon is a recognized celebrity. Blondie Chaplin isn't. The ongoing underration of BC is really keeping you up nights, isn't it? Oh, and I thought PBS' "Triumph of the Nerds" was thoroughly entertaining/captivating/informative/whatever. Great stuff. New discovery of the week: a German synth trio called To Rococo Rot. New album "The Amateur View" is on Mute. Kinda along the lines of Mouse on Mars, I suppose...modest little instrumental vignettes which unfold and tantalize. Has that sense of composition, pacing and discipline which I require from music of the genre. Pure brain food. I dig it. Looked 'em up on the Web, and I guess they have a couple of previous import-only releases on City Slang. Huh...never heard of the group, before this. Eb PS "Sail On Sailor" WAS used as background music, during one point of the profile. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:29:14 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: Revenge of the Nerds '99 >Don't tell me that Steve Jobs would TURN DOWN a little monopoly of his >own. He's a business man. He SELLS his software. He's not exactly a >great humanitarian. I think they were trying to make the point that Jobs was more concerned about his corporate "family" then his real family, and that somehow this made him easy pickings for Bill Gates, who manipulated him into thinking that Microsoft (supposedly part of his big happy corporate family) wasn't a threat. Basically they just wanted to put the whole thing into terms that the "average American" could understand, sorta like the way soap opera plots always somehow hinge on whose baby it is. I'm surprised at how many people saw the movie, but I guess there wasn't much else on at the time. >The money to be made on software has been made. With the exception of >enterprise application support and licensing, the market's gone. Consumer >software is dead. We don't even have decent consumer-grade 3D and VR interfaces, or reliable voice/handwriting recognition, much less "wet-ware" or anthropomorphic robots, and you're already pronouncing consumer software dead? Eeek! I'll admit, things have slowed down, mainly because everyone's obsessed with Y2K (pure retrogression) and the Internet (too slow), and the hardware hasn't reached the level it has to be at to handle the next generation of fancy shit. But it will! It will! And on that day, the world... will... tremble... >Free Software is good for you. Agreed, up to a point. That point being that if nobody makes *big* money from applications development, there won't be many more big applications, will there? I'm hardly what you'd call a money-grubbing capitalist, but I do believe that incentive is one of the keys to progress. Of course, if you're happy with the way things are now, fine. I just hope most people aren't, because then things would get really boring for me personally. Damn, that reminds me, I still haven't finished the "Asking Tree" site... John "two chairs short of a dining-room combo" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:47:17 -0600 From: ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com Subject: Re: Revenge of the Platform Wars (boring to non-geeks) >> >but I was fascinated by Noah Wyle's portrayal of Steve Jobs. Again, please >> >excuse my ignorance, but I was under the impression that Jobs was one >>of the >> >good guys, yet here he is being a giant asshole. >> Weeellll......as far as I'm concerned, the Macintosh is a good machine. > >This has nothing at all to do with Steve Jobs. That was sort of my point. A) Fundamentally, I don't care if Steve Jobs is a jerk or not. I like Apples. B) The machine itself has a hell of a lot more to do with Woz than Jobs. >own. He's a business man. He SELLS his software. He's not exactly a >great humanitarian. Did I SAY he was, Mr. SlashDot Evangelist? Anyway, Apple's never tried to inflict any serious tracking shit on me, and Wintel does (and that chip would have affected anyone running -anything- on a PC that had that chip in it). I can buy software right this minute that will work with some very old Apple System Software. Win '95 is already being phased out. This isn't about buying software. Sheesh. I don't mind paying for software. It's the idea that every two years your operating system will effectively be useless that irritates me. >So you're pro-Apple because you're anti-Microsoft? That is a small part of it. The main part of it is.... I'm pro-Apple because I LIKE MY FRIGGIN' COMPUTER. I also liked the FRIGGIN' APPLE I had before this one. And when I buy another computer, it will be a FRIGGIN' APPLE. FRIGG FRIGG FRIGG! ODIN! >too". Apple's selling point is half anti-Microsoft and half "I don't want >to know how to use a computer". Both prey on ignorance. Frankly, that latter really irritates me too, if only because it doesn't exactly reflect the reality.....ok, here's one example. The isp I just signed on with- they had a little "setup.exe" program for Windows users. No information provided for anyone else to do a manual setup. I encounter this sort of thing on a regular basis. It's all set up for the Windoze people, and I not infrequently have to figure out how to do stuff myself. If I "didn't want to know how to use a computer", I would have given up on this OS a couple years ago. It's also worth pointing out that any given software package is not any easier to use with this OS than it is with Windows. You think we get some kind of "easy versions" of Quark or Photoshop or AutoCAD which have been simplified especially for Apple users? Nope, these are the same damn programs. I'm very tired of people assuming that because I'm on a Macintosh I must be at the Nintendo-user level of computing. My dad does this and he doesn't even know what fucking IP numbers are ferchrissakes. Quit witcher attitude already people! Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:01:07 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Kabal para mi About half of mine was completely right. About half was completely wrong. Very little gray. "Also, you are prone to suffer from weaknesses centering in the head." Could not be more correct in hundreds of ways. Is this Bayard's own addition? - -Markg just waiting for my heart and lungs to explode. < Mark The name of Mark gives you a very individual, reserved, serious nature. You stick stubbornly to your ideas or decisions, in spite of any appeals or advice; you are not willing to accept a compromise. You prefer to be alone with your own thoughts, rather than in the company of others. This name restricts spontaneity in association and the fluency of your verbal expression. When you are required to express yourself in personal matters requiring finesse and diplomacy, you feel awkward and embarrassed. Although you realize perfectly well what is expected of you, you are unable to find the right words, and hence you end up saying something inappropriate in a candid way. You can express your deeper thoughts and feelings best through writing. Your friendships and personal associations are rather restricted, being limited to those of a similar nature who can understand and accept your rather straightforward yet reserved manner. You are steadfast and loyal, and do not allow gossip or anything belittling to be said against those whom you accept in friendship. You find satisfaction in being outdoors or in getting out into nature, or in dealing with the products of the earth. There is originality and depth of thought contained in this name, particularly along practical and mathematical lines. This name can adversely affect the health of your respiratory organs, the heart and lungs. Also, you are prone to suffer from weaknesses centering in the head.> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:22:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Revenge of the Platform Wars (boring to non-geeks) On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 ultraconformist@mail.weboffices.com wrote: > >too". Apple's selling point is half anti-Microsoft and half "I don't want > >to know how to use a computer". Both prey on ignorance. > > I'm very tired of people assuming that because I'm on a Macintosh I must be > at the Nintendo-user level of computing. My dad does this and he doesn't > even know what fucking IP numbers are ferchrissakes. Quit witcher attitude > already people! Just a quick note: I was talking about their selling point, not the reality. Just as "Microsoft software works with what you have" is full of shit, the idea that a Mac is somehow magically easier is also full of shit. It's just what people perceive when going into the purchase. The fact is that every OS has its own idiosynchracies and obfuscated command structure and file structure that makes it weird and difficult and cumbersome. And that goes far beyond Windows and MacOS. J. PS. the chip ID thingie would have to exploited by software. If you're carefully watching every packet coming out of your machine, nobody's going to sneak an ID out of you. Besides, having a fixed IP address means you can be tracked anyway. Soon enough, static IP will be the norm... then you'll need something like Zero Knowledge Systems if you want to think you have privacy. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #216 *******************************