From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #156 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, April 27 1999 Volume 08 : Number 156 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Shall we discuss John Elway now? Yes, please. ["Chris!" ] Mountain Stage [Plpalmer@ix.netcom.com] you don't want to know what i think [dmw ] Re: Long Ryder sighting [Michael R Godwin ] Re: Guns and Beer [Michael R Godwin ] Re: Dan Bern song [hal brandt ] Re: you don't want to know what i think [Christopher Gross ] heathers, the movie [Eleanore Adams ] recantation of my errors [Christopher Gross ] Re: heathers, the movie [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Re: "I have a gub" ("Woo-hoo! I wanna be John Elway!") [MARKEEFE@aol.com] You have to see this [The Great Quail ] Re: You have to see this [lj lindhurst ] Re: recantation of my errors [dmw ] Re: heathers, the movie [Aaron Mandel ] Re: If you think they're fun at feg parties, wait 'til you try them at home. [The Great Quail ] Re: wow! too much synchronicity! (fwd) [Capuchin ] Re: you don't want to know... ["JH3" ] Re: recantation of my errors ["Capitalism Blows" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:20:28 -0700 From: "Chris!" Subject: Shall we discuss John Elway now? Yes, please. Eb wrote: > > http://users.powernet.co.uk/higgs/fz_mosaic.html > > These things amaze me. I just don't understand how they do 'em. Anyone? > > Eb It is really not that complex. There is a book out titled, wait for it, "Photomosaics." Or to that effect. It goes through the basics of the process. The trick is pick images that mean something to the larger whole, i.e. not just picking smaller images based on their tonality. The process was all the rage a few years ago when a couple big names were recognized for some works they had done. The idea it not that different from creating a bitmapped image. A cell represents a certain value; look up close you only see pixels, ect.... I myself am not fond of the things. They just don't float my boat. I do prefer the polaroid mosaics done by various people. Much more of an interesting perspective of a single scene. Regardless, there is more info here... http://photomosaic.com/info.htm .chris (really tired of the mutant variations of the "kids-done-got-shot" thread) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:15:16 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: "I have a gub" Is from the movie _Take the Money and Run_. To improve the general quality of life for DotChris, who has recently drastically improved his geographical location, here's some requested information: John Elway's retirement means a couple of important things. Bad news: 1) Bubby Brister is the near-term starter. Good news: 2) Now John will live a happy life as Bronky, the team mascot. John Elway wasn't the Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky of his sport, but he was about the most athletic QB ever. I used to wonder how many of his receivers' arms shattered from the force he used on the ball in the cold up there. - --- If you ever go to jail, be sure to say "with," as your final word before you sign out, they just hate it when you end your sentence that way. happies, - -Sharkboy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 21:23:58 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: Suckin' Satan's pecker Umm, didn't Satan say that there was no improper relationship? Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 23:20:32 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: "I have a gub" Mark_Gloster@3com.com wrote: > > Is from the movie _Take the Money and Run_. And here's another line: "When I was a kid, my rabbi asked me if I thought sex was dirty. I replied that if you're doing it right, it is." ....or something close to that. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 01:34:30 -0700 From: Plpalmer@ix.netcom.com Subject: Mountain Stage Is there anyone on this list who is DAT and can tape Mountain Stage? Peter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:36:32 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: you don't want to know what i think warning: i bet this bit'll offend almost everyone: but i can't help thinking what a smaller splash this whole thing would've made, had it been in *my* neighborhood. yeah, a "death trap" school would've the made the national news, fer sure, but kids die here every week and it doesn't. when middleclass white kids go apeshit, why, then it's a societal outrage. here it's just "drug and/or gang-related violence." and something about _that_ strikes me as sick. i'm not trying to trivialize it, mind you, but the inconsistency of the weight the media gives to tragic events really bothers me. like how genocide in western europe is an abomination, but genocide in africa or asia is jake with (the) u s (unless it happens to be a communist regime perpetrating the genocide). anyway. sorry. had to get that off my chest, it's been festering for a while. (now i've got wee bits of formerly festering gunk stuck in my chest hairs. ewww.) ...sorry, took that metaphor a little too far... in other news: ...i had a long depressing talk with a very smart friend about our genetic imperative, or lack thereof, toward genocidal behaviour. he was disturbingly convincing. ...i don't see how playing quake or whatever is going to teach anyone to value and cherish human life, but anybody blaming doom, or marilyn manson, ought to consider that people have been slaughtering other since well before there *was* a doom, or a marilyn manson -- or any other inflammatory work or person you care to cite. incidentally, while it seems common to think that, with one famous historical exception, the serial killer is a 20th century ailment of society, it seems far likelier to me that it's only very recent developments in forensics that have made it possible to identify them as such. and chris: rest easy, son -- for snl's "goth talk" have gi'en the world a far truer picture of those gloomiest of our society, far too languid to effect the actual deaths (of others). fz/eb: wuzzit me, or did the _jazz from hell_ montage have a startlingly high quantity of cheesy cheesecake? i was tempted to scroll through in search of, y'know, people actually, y'know, ballin'. also repeated images, which i thawt was a photomosaic no-no -- there're two identical "open" signs adjacent to each other, and then the same "open" image with reduced saturation, looks like, appears one column to the right near the very bottom. struck me as a wee bit sloppy. gratuitous terminal prepositions: over and out - -- d. p.s. anybody watched _heathers_ lately? maybe it's all christian slater's fault! i say we string the bastard up!! who's with me?? heh. "pictures of perfection make me sick and wicked." -- miss jane austen - - oh no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net dmw@mwmw.com - - get yr pathos:www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:26:51 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Long Ryder sighting On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer wrote: > It was highly likely that Bristol's own bluegrass banjo/guitar > sensation Joff Lowson was there, lurking, as he does. Not just lurking, but actually joining in and playing guitar on 'Ooh Las Vegas'. > I don't know how Sid manages to scrape by. His gigs are very > inexpensive, and always great. He certainly wasn't making much from the tour - he told me that the previous gig in Cheltenham had been cancelled because of lack of interest. He said that the Porter Butt crowd was one of the best so far, and there were no more than 140 people in the audience. However, I think he also does quite a bit of journalism for Mojo etc. But I don't understand why a country rock performer would want to move from California to London in the first place. - - MRG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 14:36:31 +0100 (BST) From: Michael R Godwin Subject: Re: Guns and Beer > >>>>> "Michael" == Michael R Godwin writes: > Michael> You can ride a motorbike and get married at 16 On Mon, 26 Apr 1999, Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer wrote: > It's 17 in Scotland for marriage; thought it was 18 in England? No, it's 16 provided you have parental approval and so forth. 18 is the date of majority when you can go ahead whether the parents approve or not. Sex is legal at 16, except for gay sex where the age is 18 (but this will also be brought down to 16 when the current legislation eventually goes through). > Michael> following an incident in Scotland where a mad bloke shot > Michael> up a youth club. Stewart> It was a primary school in Dunblane. Correct. I was confused because he had run a youth club in the past, and several families had taken their kids away from it because he was so weird. - - MRG ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:52:13 -0600 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: Dan Bern song Dave, This was posted on the fegmaniax! list (there are a lot of Dan Bern fans there as well) and I thought you might want to read it. /hal Mark Gloster wrote: > > Dan wrote this the last time there was a high school shooting. > A song about a media event has to be incredibly honest for me > to give it any attention. I saw Dan do this shortly after he'd > written it in a tiny radio station studio. There was not a > single dry eye in the room. Maybe it loses something as words > on a page, but not for me. Look, I hate the movie of the week > drama reenactments of terrible stories, I can't sit through > warbling foofooheads blubber for twenty hours about a ship > that took twenty minutes to sink.... But I digress. Digression > is a common thing for me.... > > Maybe you don't want to read on, but this still affects me. > This is different. I wouldn't even know how to write a song > like this. I think this is my last post on the subject. > > All the best, > -Markg > > KIDS PRAYER > > So sad, so sad, the news that come our way this morning > Like a bad, bad dream, a dream you never even talk about > In school, a school, a place where we send our precious children > And the only place of innocence the world might ever let them know > And barely aware of the odds against existence in the first place > Of love and fertility of risk of a baby being born > And of clothes and food and fear and maybe relocation > Of sickness, recovery, of music lessons, painting the bedroom > And lingering over eggs and thoughts and sleepy conversation > And plans for the weekend, one last pause to say goodbye > And glance at the clock and grabbing another sandwich and a notebook > Confident of nothing but the unbroken days that they've been granted > > But comes a child, a child so full of anger and hatred > Barely aware of the genesis coursing through his veins > With a gun, a gun, deaf and blind deliverer of madness > Skilled beyond his own unformulated brain > And with his hands in a fist, and his soul in a knot and his heart > racing > And mind sick with images, his slim shoulders finally feeling tall > And his fellow creatures, students in their crushes and their daydreams > Struggling to unwrap the ancient secrets of geometry > He pulls from his coat the instrument to shatter all forevers > In a random blaze of insides and blood and endless now > And noise and flash and more and not even when it's over > Can any so much as summon up the sanity to scream > And on the floor his classmates blown down, choking > As he lays his weapon on his desk, partly sure he isn't dreaming > > And all the world descends and offers up their condolence > And offers up their theories of what went wrong and who and why and when > and how > It's all the killing day and night on television > It's all the movies where violence is natural as breathing > It's guns and bullets as easily obtainable as candy > It's video games where you kill and begin to think it's real > It's people not having god in their lives anymore > Or it's all of it, or none of it, or some of it, in various combinations > And all those theories sound pretty reasonable I guess > Though I ain't no scientist, I ain't no figurer of statistics > I ain't no theologist, no psychologist or biologist > All I can do is offer up a prayer of my own > > Talk to your kids, play with your kids > Tell 'em your dreams, and your disappointments > Listen with your kids, and listen to your kids > Watch your kids, let your kids watch you > Tell your kids the truth, best as you can tell it > No use telling lies, your kids can always smell it > Cook for your kids, let your kids cook for you > Sing with your kids, teach your kids the blues > Learn their games, teach them yours > Touch your kids, find out what they know > Be sad with your kids, be stupid with your kids > Learn with your kids, cry with your kids > Be yourself with your kids , be real with your kids > Embarrass your kids, let them embarrass you > Be strong with your kids, be tough with your kids > Be firm with your kids, say no to your kids, > Say yes to your kids, take it easy on your kids > You were a kid not so long ago > There's things you know, your kids will never know > There's places they live where you will never go > So dance with your kids, paint with your kids > Walk with your kids, tell stories to your kids > Watch movies with your kids. eat popcorn with your kids > Tell secrets with your kids, stop for rainbows with your kids > One day your kids, won't be kids > Maybe they'll have kids of their own > Lets hope they talk to their kids > Play with their kids > Tell 'em their dreams > And their disappointments > > -Dan Bern ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:54:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Re: you don't want to know what i think On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, dmw wrote: > warning: i bet this bit'll offend almost everyone: > but i can't help thinking what a smaller splash this whole thing would've > made, had it been in *my* neighborhood. [snip] Well, I don't think that's offensive (I mean your statement, not the phenomenon you're talking about). I'd say you're, sadly, quite correct. > i'm not trying to trivialize it, mind you, but the inconsistency of the > weight the media gives to tragic events really bothers me. like how > genocide in western europe is an abomination, but genocide in africa or > asia is jake with (the) u s (unless it happens to be a communist regime > perpetrating the genocide). Here, though, you ruin a good point by exaggerating it. Genocide in Europe might get more coverage than genocide in Africa or Asia, but the latter is hardly treated as "a joke." At least, I don't remember much snickering on CNN when Rwanda was dominating the news. > and chris: rest easy, son -- for snl's "goth talk" have gi'en the world a > far truer picture of those gloomiest of our society, far too languid to > effect the actual deaths (of others). Hm, good point. I haven't seen Goth Talk myself (I last watched SNL in 1996; the last time before that was sometime in the Bush administration). However, Goth Talk does seem to be tremendously popular among real goths, who probably see more humor in it than the average SNL viewer. Someone even set up a web site with RealAudio bootlegs of all the episodes: But don't tell NBC! > p.s. anybody watched _heathers_ lately? maybe it's all christian slater's > fault! i say we string the bastard up!! who's with me?? heh. I've checked my video store at least three times in the past week, and _Heathers_ has been rented out each time. - --Chris np: Sisters of Mercy, _Some Girls Wander By Mistake_ ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:58:37 -0600 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: Dan Bern song hal brandt wrote: > > Dave, Sorry for the address mixup on that last post, but thanks to Markg for posting those lyrics. /hal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 08:33:08 +0000 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: heathers, the movie Has anyone mentioned Heathers here yet? It is about a click of school kids, and how Christian Slater and that girl who used to date Johnny Depp (whos name escapes me at the moment) plan and do kill the popular kids in school, and there is a bomb planed to blow the gym up etc.... I know current events are heart breaking, but I can't help but remember that movie.... eleanore ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:01:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: recantation of my errors Several helpful Fegs have pointed out that I misread "jake" as "joke" in Doug's last post. Sorry, Doug! (I might have caught my mistake if only I had been aware that "jake" is a slang term for "all right." Reckon I still ain't larned y'all's fancy city talk yet.) I still think it's an exaggeration to say that the US is completely indifferent to genocide in Asia and Africa. However, the difference between "completely indifferent" and "mostly indifferent" probably isn't worth arguing about.... - --Chris ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:02:36 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: heathers, the movie >Has anyone mentioned Heathers here yet? It is about a click of school >kids, and how Christian Slater and that girl who used to date Johnny >Depp (whos name escapes me at the moment) plan and do kill the popular >kids in school, and there is a bomb planed to blow the gym up etc.... Actually it just came up. BTW: her name is Wynona Ryder. (Mmmmmmmm.) There is a band around here called "The Wynona Ryders." Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:02:39 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: "I have a gub" ("Woo-hoo! I wanna be John Elway!") In a message dated 4/26/99 8:17:09 PM, Mark_Gloster@3com.com writes: << John Elway's retirement means a couple of important things. Bad news: 1) Bubby Brister is the near-term starter. >> Not *really* bad news. He rocked last year as a starter . . . but that's different from being the #1 QB for a team that's looking to "three-peat" (everybody: count your peat moss!) in the Super Bowl. So, it *could* be bad news, or it could be just fine news. In any case, it's Terrell Davis' team now. And I find *that* the most interesting. For 16 years, the Broncos were a QB-led team; now they're main focus is the running game (although it could definitely be argues that this has been the case for a couple of years now, anyway). << Good news: 2) Now John will live a happy life as Bronky, the team mascot. >> I always wondered, before, how he had the energy to go whinnying and cantering around the field after leading a scoring drive, especially with that flag-wavin' cowchick on his back! << John Elway wasn't the Michael Jordan or Wayne Gretzky of his sport >> I totally agree. Elway was great, but I wouldn't say that he was "probably the best who ever played the game," which is a sentiment easily applied to either Gretzky or Jordan. Elway would almost certainly be in the Top 5 QBs ever (another list! ;-)), and most likely the Top 15-20 overall players, though. That ain't bad. - -----MIchael K., happy to be getting back to talking about our usual stuff on this list, like sports and shit. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 99 12:11:30 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: You have to see this In the tradition of Eb's notorious URL postings: I . . . I just can't believe . . . mind locked . . . will fading . . . where's the turtle girl? I need to score some glint to get me through this . . . peeps . . . everywhere . . . . - --Quail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:18:56 -0400 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: You have to see this >In the tradition of Eb's notorious URL postings: > > > >I . . . I just can't believe . . . mind locked . . . will fading . . . >where's the turtle girl? I need to score some glint to get me through >this . . . peeps . . . everywhere . . . . quick, call Tammy Littlenut!! "the carpet matches the drapes," lj ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:26:02 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: recantation of my errors On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Christopher Gross wrote: > > Several helpful Fegs have pointed out that I misread "jake" as "joke" in > Doug's last post. Sorry, Doug! (I might have caught my mistake if only I > had been aware that "jake" is a slang term for "all right." Reckon I > still ain't larned y'all's fancy city talk yet.) n.p.! > I still think it's an exaggeration to say that the US is completely > indifferent to genocide in Asia and Africa. However, the difference > between "completely indifferent" and "mostly indifferent" probably isn't > worth arguing about.... you're right, i was exaggerating. sorry. i'll endeavor to be more reasonable henceforth. (or maybe more realistically, to not intertwine so closely that which i exaggerate and that which i don't). thanks for listening, anyway. - -- d. "pictures of perfection make me sick and wicked." -- miss jane austen - - oh no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net dmw@mwmw.com - - get yr pathos:www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:35:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: heathers, the movie On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Eleanore Adams wrote: > I know current events are heart breaking, but I can't help but > remember that movie.... may not have been mentioned here, but it's in the national news. they're blaming Heathers and The Matrix. some of the victims' parents supposedly made noises about a lawsuit. whatever. a ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 99 13:25:35 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: If you think they're fun at feg parties, wait 'til you try them at home. >A waiting room's Williams Sonoma catalog featured Crab, Hen, Prawn and >Lobster stainless steel cutters for vegetables, fruits & cookies (you can >ink-stamp wrapping paper with them as well). Catalog order only. >#64-223410. Um . . . ok, I gotta ask . . . is that four seperate implements? Or is that a stainless steel cutter that has a mix of crabs, hens, prawns, and lobsters on it? Because that would be just too damn weird, and even I would have to start believing Commander Lang's theories. . . . At the Court Street Market in Brooklyn you can get little home-made magnets -- prawns, lobsters, crabs, squid(!), cuttlefish, and hens. They are a dollar each. Sometimes I really think the world is a big coloring book. - --Quail Peeeeeeps. . . . . peeeeeeps. . . . . . I am starting to understand . . . . . +---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+---------+ The Great Quail, K.S.C. (riverrun Discordian Society, Kibroth-hattaavah Branch) For fun with postmodern literature, New York vampires, and Fegmania, visit Sarnath: http://www.rpg.net/quail "The people asked, and he brought quails, and satisfied them with the bread of heaven." --Psalms 105:40 (Also see Exodus 16:13 and Numbers 11:31-34 for more starry wisdom) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:47:18 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: serial killer >inflammatory work or person you care to cite. incidentally, while it >seems common to think that, with one famous historical exception, the >serial killer is a 20th century ailment of society, it seems far likelier >to me that it's only very recent developments in forensics that have made >it possible to identify them as such. The serial killer is not at all a 20th century ailment. I can think of several 19th century ones, and with a look around the net one could probably find a few more. H.H. Holmes springs to mind, because he was right here in Chicago, and he was a wealthy fellow who had a house specially built for the purpose with trap doors, secret torture rooms, etc.- he hired several sets of architects so no one would have complete plans. IIRC he also took in lodgers and ran it as a hotel! "Holmes' House of Horror" was torn down of course, and the corner was empty for a really long time. I think there is now a Walgreen's on that corner- I don't remember the exact location, but it was somewhere around what is now the deep south side, 63rd street or something. It's an absolutely fascinating story, and a part of Chicago's history that's been mostly (wilfully?) forgotten. Anyhoo.... The -term- is a 20th century invention. Before that they were just called "monster" or something similar. The particular pathology has only recently been given a name and characteristics. I -think-, but I'm not completely sure, that basically it was the invention of psychology and psychiatry that gave this a name. >p.s. anybody watched _heathers_ lately? maybe it's all christian slater's >fault! i say we string the bastard up!! who's with me?? heh. Man, I MENTIONED this last night at dinner. My companions were skeptical. But it's a whole lot closer to the situation than M----- M------ if you ask me. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 10:35:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: wow! too much synchronicity! (fwd) Reminder for tomorrow. Buzzzzzz. - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:26:10 -0800 From: Eb To: Capuchin Subject: Re: wow! too much synchronicity! >On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Eb wrote: >> Damn! I'm circling April 29th with a beeeeeg red circle on my calendar. > >400 hives. >Orange County. >April 28. > >The canary sings at midnight. REPEAT The canary sings at midnight. > >Watermelon is red and juicy. REPEAT Watermelon is red and juicy. You lost me, there. Hm? Eb - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:38:38 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: you don't want to know... >> p.s. anybody watched _heathers_ lately? maybe it's all christian slater's >> fault! i say we string the bastard up!! who's with me?? heh. >I've checked my video store at least three times in the past week, and >_Heathers_ has been rented out each time. With apologies to J. Partridge: Interviewer: "Mr. L.F. Dibley's latest film, "If." Mr. Dibley, some people have drawn comparisons between your film, "If," which ends with a gun battle at a public school, and Mr. Lindsay Anderson's film "If," which ends with a gun battle at a public school." Dibley: "Oh yes, well, there were some people who said my film, "2001: A Space Odyssey," was similar to Stanley Kubrick's. I mean, that's the sort of petty critical niggling that's dogged my career. It makes me sick. I mean, as soon as I'd made "Midnight Cowboy" with The Vicar as Ratzo Rizzo, John Schlesinger rushes out his version and gets it premiered while mine's still at chemist's." Trivia fact: The leader of the students in "If" who did the shooting at the end was the same guy who pulled the trigger on Capt. Kirk. JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 11:26:39 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: recantation of my errors first of all, the word "genocide" gets tossed around too casually. just for example, milosevic's actions in kosovo, horrible as they've been, are nothing even remotely resembling genocide. up until the bombing started, the level of killing in kosovo was about on par with that in atlanta. attempting to displace an entire population, while a major crime, is NOT the same thing as attempting to kill an entire population. as for the u.s., and its relation to brutal, murderous thugs: sometimes we're indifferent, sometimes we're horrified, sometimes we actively support them. all depends on our "interests." one good illustration of just how venal (probably not exactly the correct word, but, what the heck) we are is cambodia. when pol pot came in and started his programme, he was the worst murderer since hitler, etc. etc. it was a major scandal, all over the media, so on and so forth. lots of lies. faked photographs. the whole nine yards. not that it *needed* to be blown out of proportion. the facts were bad enough. but we weren't content with sticking to the facts. anyway, when vietnam invaded cambodia and put an *end* to the horrors, we *immediately* did an about-face and threw our allegiance behind pol pot. why? because, you know, those nasty gooks had kicked our asses, so, by definition, anything that they were up to was evil, and we had to oppose it. (the vietnamese invasion has been called one of the very few cases of a "humanitarian intervention." even chosmky calls it that. i'm not sure i'd go that far, but it *is* clear that the people of cambodia were a LOT better off after the invasion than before.) now, at *exactly* the same time as the pol pot brutalities, we not only *supported* the indonesian annexation of east timor (and this *was* genocidal, by the way. the largest mass slaughter since the holocaust), but supplied the vast majority of the weapons (and as the brutality increased, coverage dropped to, literally, *nothing*, in the american media). you can see more less the same thing today. turkey is repressing its ethnic kurds, while a few miles away, yugoslavia is repressing its ethnic albanians. one of them gets bombs dropped on them, one of them gets our support. one of them happens to be a loyal ally, one of them doesn't want to take orders from us. anyhow, sunny day real estate was AWESOME last night. it was one of those times when, the opening band (death cab for cutie) was so good that you were thinking, "well, they may just have upstaged the headliners, here." and then the headliner comes out and COMPLETELY blows the place to bits, and you're going, "oh, yeah! that's who i came here to see!" first time i've ever seen them, after years and years of near-misses. it was worth the wait. http://leb.net/iac/ "...the people who in most places in the world provide opposition leadership are, here in America, holed up in academic sinecures arguing about the ethics of lunch and whether or not to hire an immigrant maid. The two-party dictatorship is literally destroying the country and Clinton is the worst president we've ever had -- much worse than Nixon and Reagan combined on everything from the environment to social and economic policy, and where's the left? Sitting by the phone hoping to get on one of those Dead White Man TV talk panels....frankly, these days every time I even see a copy of The Nation, In These Times, or, worst of all, Mother Jones, I feel like punching the first pony tailed, nasal whinnying, Virtual Asseted, public-radioed, candy-assed, so-called leftist who comes through my door. Unfortunately, they come through my door all the time and I'm too old and physically decrepit to carry out a decent physical assault. It's all very frustrating." --Bruce Anderson, Anderson Valley Advertiser _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. 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