From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #151 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, April 24 1999 Volume 08 : Number 151 Today's Subjects: ----------------- pop culture [dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)] Fegdreams #176 and #177 [Natalie Jacobs ] where oh where did i put the...? [dmw ] the great escape ["Russ Reynolds" ] re: I Do The Rock ["Russ Reynolds" ] Re: Fegdreams #176 and #177 [Aaron Mandel ] Re: every bloody thing (Fahey) [MAustin802@aol.com] Re: Books [MAustin802@aol.com] Re: Books [Ethyl Ketone ] Re: the great escape [Joel Mullins ] Re: pop culture [Miles Goosens ] game theory ["Russ Reynolds" ] Re: Fegdreams #176 and #177 [Eb ] Re: every bloody thing [Ethyl Ketone ] fegbooks, etc. ["she.rex" ] Re: the great escape [S Dwarf ] Re: pop culture [S Dwarf ] Littleton [hal brandt ] Colorado [dsaunder@islandnet.com (Daniel Saunders)] RE: Colorado [tanter ] Re: the great escape [MARKEEFE@aol.com] High School shooting [Joel Mullins ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:14:01 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich) Subject: pop culture On Sat, 24 Apr 1999 04:26:25 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: > > >Nah, the best thing ever to hit Comedy Central was the original MST3K (with Joel >Hodgeson). That show was, IMO, the 2nd best television show in history (first >place going to, of course, "The Wonder Years") No, "Northern Exposure!" I know a LOT of us looked at Chris Stevens and said "wow! i wanna be like him- smart AND cool!" ....though the last season was a disaster... . The first time I ever stumbled >across Comedy Central was in the middle of a "Turkey Day Marathon" - something >like 24 hours of MST3K. My brother and I laughed so hard I practically pissed the >couch. Them were the days. Ah yes, the original MST3K...the current Mike run is 'ok', but Joel and the bots vs. "Manos- the hands of fate" or any "gamera" film makes them pale in comparison...btw, this current run on Sci-Fi is the last run period. After a decade, Best Brains is apparently getting tired of it. -luther ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 09:39:48 -0400 (EDT) From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: Fegdreams #176 and #177 Eddie likes hearing about our dreams, so... 1. I dreamed I was a character in Jonathan Carroll's novel "Sleeping in Flame" (q.v. - a fine fegbook, as someone mentioned). The vengeful father character was threatening Randi, and I begged him to spare her because of her Crohn's - "Hasn't she suffered enough?" But he refused. :( (Don't worry, Rand, it was just a dream...) 2. I got in an argument with Eb and a couple of other Fegs because I was dissing Sebadoh (I hate 'em in real life, too). I think the argument eventually ended up turning into a fistfight. Incidentally, I am another feg who has no time for Elliott Smith. I heard him a few times and thought, "Ehhh." I might give him another chance some time, but probably not. The fact that he is butt-ugly has nothing to do with it, before you ask... I forgot to mention earlier, in my conversation with the local E6 expert (the guy spreading rumors of NMH's demise), that he played me a 7-inch by one of Robert Schneider's side-projects, the Marbles. Ugh! It was so disgustingly twee that I made the guy turn it off before I went into insulin shock. He said, "You wouldn't like Of Montreal, then." Are Of Montreal really cutesy, too? I sorta got that impression... n. was playing: Julie Doiron, "Will You Still Love Me?" woj would like this, I think. Dunno whether that's good or bad. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:52:18 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: where oh where did i put the...? On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, VIV LYON wrote: > So, on a dream note, I had a dream last night about Doug Mayo-Wells. He > was busking in the subway, playing the saxophone. He was quite good, > but his 'presentation' was odd. He'd keep moving around, never wanting easier to pick pockets that way? i'm glad i was competent, anyway. dave (you don't know dave) brought his old trumpet to rehearsal t'other night; this was less successful. i probably should wait to trumpet this to all and sundry until we're, y'know, closer to having actual *product* but we the feckless spent most of last weekend holed up in a studio. we were only going to do 3 or 4 songs, but after we got set up and found a groove, we just kept rolling, until, unfortunately, the mixing board failed catastrophically during one of the very best takes. (it was weird and spooky -- we had finally got used to playing with phones on in our separate little booths, and when the phones all went dead it was kinda like time had stopped or something) so our engineer has to get the board fixed before we can finish it, but we all felt pretty good about the session. i'd never sung into such a nice microphone before; it was a real thrill. you'll probably all be kept more posted than you wannabe on further developments... and gggnat: >> n. was playing: Julie Doiron, "Will You Still Love Me?" woj would like this, I think. Dunno whether that's good or bad. << have you heard _loneliest in the morning_? how does this compare? and ell-jay: >> "It's the time of the season, for Eb and Flow." > >if Eb doesn't marry a gal named Flo, I'll be disappointed. If Doug doesn't name his band that, *I'll* be disappointed! << uh, what zactly is the band name, there? sounds more like an album to me. i'll be at the creatures show tonight if i get out of work in time; see summayouse there, mayhap? thanks for the dollar, viv! - -- d. ...oh...*there* it is!... "pictures of perfection make me sick and wicked." -- miss jane austen - - oh no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net dmw@mwmw.com - - get yr pathos:www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:53:06 -0700 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: the great escape >/hal >(living in Littleton, Co - creepiest place on Earth right now) I find it somewhat odd that for four days since the event not one person on this list has mentioned the tragedy in Hal's town until now. We've touched on EVERYTHING here, from Clinton & Monica to DiMaggio to Kosovo...Many of us are parents, some of us are kids, and yet this subject--which since Tuesday has been all over the newspapers, TV and yes the internet--gets not a single mention for four full days on fegmaniax. Come to think of it I don't think I've seen a mention on Chalkhills yet either, though there is some lag time on their digests. Chalkhills, however, isn't nearly the open forum this list is. Am I the only one who finds this odd? - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:58:46 -0700 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: re: I Do The Rock >I Do the Rock by Tim Curry (annotated by Linda Fletcher) > >The Rock-Idols Verse > >John and Yoko, farming beef >Raising protein quota >Sometimes they make love and art >Inside the Dakota I wonder if the Lennons had any objections to this, seein' as how they were farming dairy, not beef. Raising lactose quota. While we're on the subject, anyone have the lyrics to "Cows" by the Suburbs handy? - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 11:24:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Fegdreams #176 and #177 On Sat, 24 Apr 1999, Natalie Jacobs wrote: > Ugh! It was so disgustingly twee that I made the guy turn it off > before I went into insulin shock. He said, "You wouldn't like Of > Montreal, then." Are Of Montreal really cutesy, too? I sorta got > that impression... oh yes. almost unbelievably so. take someone whose music resembles every negative review Robyn's ever gotten accusing him of being wacky for the sake of wackiness, take out the imagination and edge, and sing it all in a mush-mouthed "cute" voice. the guy on Talk Soup has just made a joke that turns on comparing a black guy to a gorilla. ha ha. a ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:34:05 EDT From: MAustin802@aol.com Subject: Re: every bloody thing (Fahey) In a message dated 4/23/99 1:52:09 PM Central Daylight Time, MARKEEFE@aol.com writes: << And, because I'm a stickler for details, I should mention that that album was actually released in 1965; you might've been thinking of just plain ol' "Blind Joe Death" (the not-yet-transfigured, I guess), which came out in 1959 on John's own Takoma label. The version one can now find on CD is called "The Legend of Blind Joe Death" and this features two different early 60's re-recordings of the whole album, plus maybe one or two songs from the original 1959 edition. This is great stuff! A little more traditionally folk-bluesy than his only slightly later albums, which started to incorporate aspects of Indian raga, classical (one piece on "America" is Dvorak), and whatever else. Fantasy is gradually re-releasing a lot of his older (60's) material. Check 'im out! >> he's had alot of stuff released, i discovered this by checking out the GEMM site. newer stuff is of the Musique Concrete variety, still intersperced with his slide guitar. also recommended is the disc he did with a band called Cul De Sac, which is less tradional also, but very good. actually I enjoyed the liner note telling the woe of these musicians working with an extremely difficult "legend". I had the good fortune to find his Xmas album at a Big Lots store and subjected everyone to in. xmas standards done with one slide guitar, either you loved it or hated it, beats the shit out of the mall Muzak that get pumped out that time of year! Michael the stone And here, all dreams have to be dreamed by oneself! When I am dead, a stone will dream my dreams. >From Hengitys yössä Translated by Anselm Hollo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 07:43:06 EDT From: MAustin802@aol.com Subject: Re: Books In a message dated 4/24/99 3:28:07 AM Central Daylight Time, librik@jaka.ece.uiuc.edu writes: << Very much the sort of book Robyn Hitchcock would enjoy, if the other titles I've seen him recommend are any indication of his tastes. >> I just finshed a book that i thought would be worth mentioning, to people of this lists discriminating tastes. it called Zod Wallop, by william Spencer Browning. kind of dark contempory mind fuck fantasy. plus it has a monkey named Lord Arbus. has to do with a Childrens book of most dark accountabilty and the merry band of mental patiants who believe the book to be fact not fiction. order it from you favorite book depository, it was a disturbingly enjoyable read. reminds me a bit of Johnathan Carrols Bones of the Moon, a bit, or even Gaimans Neverworld. Michael the Stone And here, all dreams have to be dreamed by oneself! When I am dead, a stone will dream my dreams. >From Hengitys yössä Translated by Anselm Hollo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:04:23 -0700 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: Re: Books At 1.29 AM -0700 4/24/99, David Librik wrote: Pullman engages in >a staggeringly unique creation, an alternate version of our own world >painted in strangely reflective colors. Unlike Narnia, but like Gormenghast, >the author takes his world very seriously While were talking fiction worlds and alternate realities, I'd like to recomend a marvelous book for any serious "other world fiction" readers library: "The Dictionary of Imaginary Places" Alberto Manguel & Gianni Guadalupi Harvest/HBJ Book 1990 Serious entries about most fiction worlds with the book and author cited at the end of the entry. Entires span writings from several centuries. Wonderful reading in itself and a great book to point one to more books. I highly recomend it! Be Seeing You, - - Carrie "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** M.E.Ketone/C.Galbraith meketone@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:08:35 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: the great escape Russ Reynolds wrote: > I find it somewhat odd that for four days since the event not one person on > this list has mentioned the tragedy in Hal's town until now. We've touched > on EVERYTHING here, from Clinton & Monica to DiMaggio to Kosovo...Many of us > are parents, some of us are kids, and yet this subject--which since Tuesday > has been all over the newspapers, TV and yes the internet--gets not a single > mention for four full days on fegmaniax. Well, I was going to mention it, but I got the feeling no one else wanted to talk about it. I decided to just wait until someone else brought it up. Maybe that's what everyone was doing. I can easily see how a discussion of the Colorado shooting could turn ugly. I'm sure everyone has opinions on gun control, Marilyn Manson, the state of the world in general. This just seems to be one of those topics that could get nasty. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:21:31 -0500 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: pop culture At 01:14 PM 4/24/99 +0000, David W. Dudich wrote: >No, "Northern Exposure!" I know a LOT of us looked at Chris Stevens >and said "wow! i wanna be like him- smart AND cool!" Chris -- both the real Chris and the character -- is a fellow West Virginian, though he's from Wheeling, i.e., the part of the state they might as well have given to Pennsylvania. > ....though the last season was a disaster... Much agreed. Falsey & Brand, the creators of the show, did the same thing with their previous great show, ST. ELSEWHERE -- create all of these interesting characters, then leave the final season(s) in the hands of other folks who reduce the characters to caricatures. If they ever do another TV series, I'm probably going to pass on it rather than fall for it and then get crushed when they let the show go to pot. My favorite TV shows ever, in no particular order because I never can decide between them: HILL STREET BLUES, TWIN PEAKS, SCTV, THE SIMPSONS, NEWHART (with the latter, particularly the surreal, ruthlessly funny last few seasons, highlights including Michael's breakdown and Joanna becoming *one of them*)... Not even touching the Mike vs. Joel thread, Miles ================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website, now with sound! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal page, all silent all the time: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles Join the Wire Mailing List: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/wire ================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 10:51:15 -0700 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: game theory Can anyone offer a second opinion on this album? Is it worth owning? Please e-mail me off list. >With Two Steps from the Middle Ages, it seems Scott Miller was having >second thoughts about the band's direction. Where Lolita Nation jumped >wildly through experimental territory, this time out, they opted for a more >radio-ready approach -- unfortunately though, not college radio where their >real support was. And while there is no shortage of good pop music here, >overall the results are somewhat bland compared to previous efforts. -- >Chris Woodstra, All-Music Guide - -rUss rreynolds@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 13:15:38 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: Fegdreams #176 and #177 Gnat: >The vengeful father >character was threatening Randi, and I begged him to spare her because of >her Crohn's Has ANYONE heard from Randi lately? :( >2. I got in an argument with Eb and a couple of other Fegs because I was >dissing Sebadoh (I hate 'em in real life, too). I think the argument >eventually ended up turning into a fistfight. Did I kick your ass? (Hey, lookie, lookie, Aaron -- here's another chance for you to sneer at an indie-rock hero.) >I forgot to mention earlier, in my conversation with the local E6 expert >(the guy spreading rumors of NMH's demise), that he played me a 7-inch by >one of Robert Schneider's side-projects, the Marbles. Ugh! It was so >disgustingly twee that I made the guy turn it off before I went into >insulin shock. He said, "You wouldn't like Of Montreal, then." Are Of >Montreal really cutesy, too? I sorta got that impression... Yes, they are. But I dig 'em. However, I do like the previous Bar/None album better than the new one. Not so much because the new one is too "twee," but because the songs are so overstuffed with chord changes and moodswings and mini-sections and vocal overdubs and extra instruments, etc. etc. that none of the tracks really sink in. As I think I said before, the album sounds like a tribute to attention-deficit syndrome. (That's my hook line, and I'm sticking with it.) However, I sold off a Marbles disc. Blah. Oh, and regarding the new Apples in Stereo EP: I didn't quite like this either. Interesting, though...it sounds like they're trying to be more "conceptual" like the Olivia Tremor Control now. It includes 15 tracks in 27 minutes, because half the tracks are artsy little "segues" that only last about a minute. MAustin: >also recommended is the disc he did with a band called Cul De Sac, which is >less tradional also, but very good. actually I enjoyed the liner note >telling the woe of these musicians working with an extremely difficult >"legend". Oh, man. I heard that one. There was this one mostly spoken-word track, in which Fahey describes his guitar to someone in Cul de Sac as if it's an unknown object, that's one of the most unlistenably pretentious things I've *ever* heard. You think that part in 2112 where Geddy "discovers" a guitar is stupid, precious and hard to take? Wait until you hear THIS. Sheer torture. I wasn't crazy about the rest of the album either -- just dull. I haven't heard much solo Fahey, actually, but I'd probably like it. Particularly if he doesn't open his mouth? ;P Someone: >I find it somewhat odd that for four days since the event not one person on >this list has mentioned the tragedy in Hal's town until now. Frankly, I've been hoping it wouldn't come up. Doug: >thanks for the dollar, viv! Man, she never sends me ANYTHING. Eb PS The Residents show last night was *awesome*. Anyone else see this tour? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:01:20 -0700 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: Re: every bloody thing At 12.32 AM -0700 4/23/99, tclark@apple.com wrote: >> From: "jbranscombe@compuserve.com" >> Finally, at the risk of appearing controversial, can I also nominate >myself as the only person on the list who has very little time for NMH, >Elliott Smith and Rufus Wainwright... >> >no, you cannot. I'm in that club too. Ah, count me in that club as well. I could never hear the NMH attraction. - - carrie "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** M.E.Ketone/C.Galbraith meketone@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 18:05:05 From: "she.rex" Subject: fegbooks, etc. Due to recent suggestions and additions, the fegbooks page has again been updated (through digest 150), and book titles (but not usually poem or short story unless I didn't know what they were) italicized for the sake of proper English. :) fred is ted: >Couldn't we have two seperate feg music lists? The >first would be like She.Rex's neato list, which >presents >the broad gamut of feg faves w/annotation, and the >second list would collate the faves with no >annotation. Thanks! And Mark of Gloster - loved the sitcoms/band/comic strip names! ROTFL! Good thing I wasn't eating - the keyboard would've been a mess! She.Rex - ------------ I Do the Rock by Tim Curry (annotated by Linda Fletcher) The Thinkers Verse I'm a keen student! Solzhenitzin, feels exposed Built a barbed wire prison Nietzsche's six feet under But his baby's still got rhythm Einstein's celebrating ten decades But I'm afraid philosophy is just too much Responsibility for me I do the Rock I do the Rock Rock - --Solzhenitsyn (1918-) wrote The Gulag Archipelago - --about the concentration camps in Siberia, Russia. - --Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm, 1844-1900 wrote - --stuff like "Twilight of the idols, or, How to - --philosophize with a hammer" and "Also sprach Zarathustra". - --His 'baby' is his philosophy which still has a huge - --influence on post-modernism. - --(Nietzsche is dead--he was famous for saying 'God is dead,' - --but his thinking continues to reverberate.) - --I assume you know of Einstein! - --I believe he had some interesting things to say about - --the responsibility of scientists. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:25:34 -0700 (PDT) From: S Dwarf Subject: Re: the great escape Joel Mullins wrote: > Russ Reynolds wrote: >> I find it somewhat odd that for four days since >> the event not one person on this list has mentioned >> the tragedy in Hal's town until now. We've touched >> on EVERYTHING here, from Clinton & Monica to >> DiMaggio to Kosovo...Many of us are parents, some >> of us are kids, and yet this subject--which since >> Tuesday has been all over the newspapers, TV and >> yes the internet--gets not a single mention for >> four full days on fegmaniax. > > Well, I was going to mention it, but I got the > feeling no one else wanted to talk about it. I > decided to just wait until someone else brought > it up. Maybe that's what everyone was doing. > > I can easily see how a discussion of the Colorado > shooting could turn ugly. I'm sure everyone has > opinions on gun control, Marilyn Manson, the state > of the world in general. This just seems to be one > of those topics that could get nasty. yes, but since when does that stop us. i kinda think it's that since it's a discussion that has (it seems like) been going on EVERYWHERE else, that maybe no one's felt like bringing it up; that fegworld has kinda been a respite from it. i will throw out the related theories that: if KMFDM and Rammstein were, say, Japanese (pseudo?-)nihilistic noise merchants, no one would have the audacity of automatically labelling them fascist (or nazi) and would at least take a couple seconds to pause before blaming them; that yuppie parents who had children in the 1980's as accesories are a scourge; republican commentators all seem to have very poor math skills since they seem think these kids were all born in the early 70's to dirty hippies and whatnot; that if schools would enforce codes of conduct relating to treating people you don't like with respect or else (and that parents would support them in that) it certainly couldn't hurt; and anyone else notice that all these school shootings seem to take place in very socially conservative burgs? feel free to set me on fire for any of that. i won't even get into the irony that marilyn manson (as boring and untalented as i find him) strangely enough SHOULD have been the guy these kids tried to model themselves after. well, maybe later. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 15:29:33 -0700 (PDT) From: S Dwarf Subject: Re: pop culture Miles Goosens wrote: > My favorite TV shows ever, ... NEWHART (with > the latter, particularly the surreal, ruthlessly > funny last few seasons, highlights including > Michael's breakdown and Joanna becoming *one of > them*)... and one of THE greatest closing moments ever. [and i didn't even really like the suzanne pleshette series.] _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 16:54:04 -0600 From: hal brandt Subject: Littleton > > > I find it somewhat odd that for four days since the event not one person on > > this list has mentioned the tragedy in Hal's town until now. > Well, I was going to mention it, but I got the feeling no one else > wanted to talk about it. > I can easily see how a discussion of the Colorado shooting could turn > ugly. Since the shootings, there has been an endless procession of teens leaving messages and other things at a makeshift shrine at Clement Park behind the school. Even creepier then the killers themselves is the media vultures accosting these kids for live interviews or incessently "shooting" them with cameras for their broadcasts. I say leave them alone, pack up your satellite dishes and leave this town ASAP. Tomorrow, Al Gore and Amy Grant come to town for their photo op's. Maybe it helps somehow, but I don't know... Disgusted with the endless coverage, /hal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 04:16:59 -0700 From: dsaunder@islandnet.com (Daniel Saunders) Subject: Colorado My new goal in life is to not learn a single thing more about the Colorado shooting, but I am thwarted at every turn. I was first unwillingly exposed to it at the home electronics department, waiting for a friend. Every TV in a whole wall of TVs was tuned to the news, with closed captioning on. Since then, four friends have brought it up in casual conversation, the radio and television have become virtual minefields, and there just seems to be no escape. Another friend said that he was out in the middle of a campground, with no TV and no electricity, and he still couldn't avoid hearing about it (some guy in a trailer home came by and told them about it). Is this a sick society or what? Please, for the love of god, let's not start discussing it here. - -- Daniel Saunders Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away. - Philip K. Dick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 19:33:03 -0500 From: tanter Subject: RE: Colorado >===== Original Message From Daniel Saunders ===== >My new goal in life is to not learn a single thing more about the >Colorado shooting, Is this a sick society or >what? Please, for the love of god, let's not start discussing it here. I don't know why you feel this way and I don't need to learn every graphic detail, but I think that trying to deny it or ignore it is wrong. It's exactly because people haven't learned from previous incidents that this one occurred. I don't want to see a 4 month thread on the issue, but I think we should talk about it, if people are inclined to. It's all too easy in our society to lable someone as weird or an outcast and to then ignore them--such as happened in CO--and then when they commit a heinous act, people say "how could this happen?" I have no problem with us discussing it, especially since we have a listmember who's right there, trying to deal with it. Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:28:04 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: the great escape In a message dated 99-04-24 10:55:43 EDT, you write: << I find it somewhat odd that for four days since the event not one person on this list has mentioned the tragedy in Hal's town until now. >> Well, I think you're subject header says it all . . . at least for myself. I found the Littleton murders so overwhelmingly sad that it was kind of nice to crawl into Fegmania here and get some brief escapes in our own little La-La Land. I don't even know what else to say. The whole thing just fucking sucks . . . for those personally connected, for humanity as a whole. Okay, I'm going to go read about baseball now. Baseball's usually not too sad (well, depending on who you root for). - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 20:04:31 -0700 From: Joel Mullins Subject: High School shooting Well, now that someone broke the ice and the Littleton high school shooting is okay to talk about here in FegLand, I'm gonna say a few words. Obviously, the media and everyone else is trying to discover why something like this would happen. So, they start blaming everything from video games to bad parenting to music. The problem is that you can't blame something like this on just one thing. The tragedy was not caused by Marilyn Manson or sickness or a decline in moral values. But it might have been caused by all of that combined. As far as the music and video game issue goes, I do believe that that had an effect on those kids. But not everyone who listens to MM or KMFDM goes around killing people. The media shouldn't even be bringing up the issue of censorship. Marilyn Manson has the right to play whatever crap he wants. What's always scared me the most is that people actually like it. The first time I saw a MM video, I was appalled. I knew we were in for trouble. The fact that so many people like his music just shows me that the world is getting really fucked up. His music is so fucking negative. There is absolutely nothing positive about it and I think it's really sad that he's a big star. He fucking sucks! I don't think he directly causes violence. But in the case of many of these kid-killers, I do think that listening to Marilyn Manson and playing ultra-violent video games is like throwing more fuel on a fire. Obviously, these kids already had some issues before they were ever introduced to this music or those video games. My point is that in my opinion, anyone who really likes that shit has got some problems. Why would any happy, stable, respectful person listen to Marilyn Manson? I don't think they would. Basically, the music breeds negativity and the fact that it's popular just alludes to bigger, deeper problems in our society. But I don't think it should be banned or anything. Anyway, that's my 78 cents worth and I'm sure you will have your opinions about what I've said. I hope I'm not starting another battle like I did a few weeks ago. fuck negativity, Joel ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #151 *******************************