From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #138 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, April 14 1999 Volume 08 : Number 138 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Linda Thompson/Robert Carlyle Question [Eric Loehr ] and one thing more ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: fucking idiots! [Bayard ] Revenge! [Michael Wolfe ] Fontmania! ["JH3" ] A fun game to play... ["Michael R. Runion" ] Dark end of the street...?? ["Chris!" ] Mechanical royalties... ["Chris!" ] Re: Dark end of the street...?? ["Chris!" ] Re: cats and Hamish [digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)] Re: RH compilation + bounus text... [Briannupp@aol.com] Re: fucking idiots! [amadain ] Re: celeb news, hot off the presses, scooping evenEb again... [Stewart Ru] Re: Linda Thompson/Robert Carlyle Question [Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_] Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind [Zloduska ] dark end, linda thompson et al [J Branscombe ] travelogue, 90% sex content ($.02) ["she.rex" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:59:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Loehr Subject: Re: Linda Thompson/Robert Carlyle Question On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 MARKEEFE@aol.com wrote: > A friend of mine who's on a lidt for the actor Robert Carlyle (of > Trainspotting and Full Monty) asked me if I knew whether or not Carlyle and > Linda Thompson were siblings. Someone on the list had remembered reading an > interview with Linda a few years back wherein she'd mentioned her actor > brother and how he'd played Hamish MacBeth on BBC (I think this is right), > which is a role that Carlyle has also played. Coincidence? I don't know. > RT fans? Trainspotting fans? BBC fans? Factoid sponges? Trivia whores? > Whaddya know? > Don't really know, but she was Linda Peters before marrying RT, if that helps any. Eric ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 12:07:45 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Linda Thompson/Robert Carlyle Question In a message dated 4/13/99 7:59:36 AM, loehr@javanet.com writes: << Don't really know, but she was Linda Peters before marrying RT, if that helps any. >> Yeah, thanks, Eric -- my friend mentioned that she also thought they had last names, too. Ya never know, though! Maybe they're only *half*-siblings! - -----Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:29:53 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: fucking idiots! spell "robyn" as "robin" TWO times in their little upcoming dates of importance section. personally, i blame eb. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 11:37:54 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: and one thing more . rem aren't *really* playing bumbershoot, even though it sez here that they are. it's on the thursday before, and you gotta pay $28 to see it. bogus. although, it *does* say that the opening act has not yet been scheduled. and if it *were* robyn, well, then it would not be quite so bogus. 'specially if robyn had his own gig during bumbershoot proper as well. but this is all probably just wishful, wishful thinking... _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 15:41:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: fucking idiots! speaking of the WB site, did anyone save the chronology robyn wrote (that has been replaced by the demme thing?) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:09:47 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Wolfe Subject: Revenge! >> Have a care, Bayard- I may beat you yet. > >I may beat him, too. Senseless. Knucklehead. >... oh... wait. BAYARD... right. I thought you meant somebody >else. >J. ExcELLenT! My personality de-stabilizer is ALReaDY having an effect! Soon Capuchin will be nothing but a gibbering mass of nerves and well-tailored trousers, and veNGeance will be mINE! (cue diabolical laughter) The shadowy and sinister (but happy) Mr. Wolfe Wait. Did I think all that, or did I type it? Shit. Uh, please, kindly forget what you've read here. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 17:55:06 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Fontmania! I guess this is as good a time as any to announce the completion of what may be the most weenie-ish Robyn-related project ever conceived: ROBYN HITCHCOCK: THE TYPEFACE Yes, that's right, now you can make your business memos, annual stockholder reports, performance reviews, and diatribes against fascist oppressors look just like they were hand-printed by Robyn Hitchcock! Say goodbye to those boring, conservative TrueType fonts you've been using and modify all your word processing, desktop publishing, and other templates to use "Fegmania Caps," the latest, and in fact only, font available exclusively - until somebody pirates it - at my rather doltishly-named (and hideously-designed) "Robynware" site: URL: It's available for PC's and Macintoshes and, like everything I do it seems, it's absolutely free. (Of course, as always I can't be held responsible for damage to your system blah blah blah, not that you can do much damage with just a font. Or... can you?) Good luck. John "Uh-oh, I've forgotten Guildford already" Hedges PS. For a Thoth symbol, just type "@". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:02:18 -0700 From: "Michael R. Runion" Subject: A fun game to play... For those of you kind hearted fegs sitting around tonight with nothing much to do but make Robyn fonts (already loaded on my work and home PCs!) or crude tinfoil headless Liams, stop by this site. Its really cool and designed by our friend Dr. Fane...or could it be Quail? Whoops! There goes Brooklyn!!! http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/bomb/sfeature/mapablast.html Mike "Bad-Taste" Runion (who lands in Paris on the 18th, missing Robyn The European by a day and many hundreds of French/Spanish miles...crap!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:43:03 -0700 From: "Chris!" Subject: Dark end of the street...?? A quick question here. Was listening to Fresh Aire today and there was a cover of "Dark end of the street" originally written by Oldham and penn. I was wondering if anyone caught this and knew who did that cover. Gram Parsons-ly, .chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 19:57:07 -0700 From: "Chris!" Subject: Mechanical royalties... I ask about royalties on another list full of musicians and the like and got a varied bunch of responses back. Of most use was this URL written by a real life lawyer for a web-zine thing. It has the best information on a topic that has no absolutes. http://www.musicuniverse.com/garage/finebusiness/fineprint7.html dark end of the street-ly, .chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 20:14:19 -0700 From: "Chris!" Subject: Re: Dark end of the street...?? > >I was wondering if anyone caught this and knew who did that > >cover. Just to be highly self-indulgent and comment on my own post... Looking around the web a bit, this song has been covered by more people than your ASCAP lawyer can list in one legal brief. .chris ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:06:31 +1200 From: digja611@student.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: cats and Hamish >> After the show, we retired to his pied-a-terre downtown and >> were mightily annoyed by his cat who remains nameless. > >My cat, in fact, does have a name. Screw you guys. that's perhaps the best name I've heard for a cat in weeks! It sums up many cats' attitudes perfectly! James PS - I've forwarded the Robert Carlyle question to an ex-girlfriend of mine who helps run a Robert Carlyle Website. If anyone knows, she should. PPS - oh, and if you've never seen Hamish Macbeth, and get the chance, do so! 'twould be in my list of favourite 10 TV series of all time... (um... probably the Avengers, the Prisoner, the Goodies, Sapphire and Steel, Barney Miller, Taxi, Hamish Macbeth, Northern Exposure, Alan Plater's three "Beiderbecke" miniseries, and Dr Who, off the top of my head, and not in that order) James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 00:30:23 EDT From: Briannupp@aol.com Subject: Re: RH compilation + bounus text... Yeah- gotta love that Moss Elixer album. I was thinkin its pretty much the closest thing to Black Snake Diamond Role since then, just because of the way all the artists are assorted on the different songs... sorta randomly placed, the cast varies... Brian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 01:19:41 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: fucking idiots! >speaking of the WB site, did anyone save the chronology robyn wrote (that >has been replaced by the demme thing?) If you're talking about the handwritten biography thingy, I have them. I can send them as attachments. It's seven gifs in all so it'd take two mails. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:39:11 +0100 (BST) From: Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer Subject: Re: celeb news, hot off the presses, scooping evenEb again... >>>>> "Mark" == Mark Gloster writes: Mark> Boxcar Willie Not so much a singer, more of a urological complaint. He will be missed. Stewart - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 08:40:37 +0100 (BST) From: Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer Subject: Re: Linda Thompson/Robert Carlyle Question >>>>> "MARKEEFE" == MARKEEFE writes: MARKEEFE> A friend of mine who's on a lidt for the actor MARKEEFE> Robert Carlyle (of Trainspotting and Full Monty) asked MARKEEFE> me if I knew whether or not Carlyle and Linda Thompson MARKEEFE> were siblings. Is Linda from Glasgow? I'm 95% sure that RC is (he lives just next door to one of my colleagues). - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:20:59 -0500 From: Zloduska Subject: Close Encounter of the Fourth Kind WARNING: Most of you may not care for the contents of this at all, but I don't care for your carelessness, so there. Tonight I went to a Rock-a-teens/Lonesome Organist/Man...Or Astroman? show at a local club. Here are the observations and empirical data I collected: Phase One: Alterna-teens I was in a bad mood to begin with as I arrived at the venue, because I unexpectedly had to walk over an hour to get there, and had power-walked. The walk itself wasn't bad, but I was irked because originally M.O.A? were scheduled to play on my campus the same date (which is right near where I live) but then it changed from a totally free show close by into something I had to buy a ticket and travel for. So I had to miss Spanish class and find somewhere I've never been that was far, far away. Anyway, I arrived at the 'Inferno', and waded through a sea of 'punks' and assorted 'hipsters' to discover that the show had not yet begun. I ended up starting almost an hour late. The "Rock-a-teens" took the stage, with about four people up front cheering. Their much too loud, unremarkable set droned on and on, along with the singers punk-Tom-Waits-imitation vocals that I couldn't distinguish a word of. Afterwards they plugged their t-shirts and album from the Kill Rock Stars label and took off, leaving me half-deaf and grumpy. But enough about them; they sucked. At least I let my mind wander and had an epiphany while they were playing. Phase Two: Caterwauling Miniature Organ Virtuoso Don't mistake the normal-looking older guy in dark clothes setting up the cymbals; that's really The Lonesome Organist. It was a brief set, but it immediately lifted my spirits and set the wacky mood for the rest of the night. Did anyone else who has seen TLO have a hard time keeping a straight face? I swear, I stood there and cracked up, laughing like a pothead the entire length of his performance. It didn't help that he was looking right at me and making funny faces half the time, otherwise putting on a freakish grimace for the man that was constantly taking photos the whole time (all the while still playing, nonetheless!). Interesting style of singing: it's not singing at all, but unlike the awful RocketTeens, he had the amazing ability to shout out a variety of "Yowwww!"s, "EEecccchhh"s, and especially "Ooooooooh"s (operatic castrado voice) and sound like a speed freak gone ballistic in tune to the music, while simultaneously playing a small organ with his left hand and a tiny drum set with his right, in between belting out noise on a harmonica at his lips. Occasionally he stood up to play guitar and sing. He had his drumsticks firmly attached to his wrists and they looked like toy numbchucks, or dangling popsicle sticks. The words were unleashed while the organ grindage was happening and they were nonsensical, although I did decipher the lyrics "Some daaay I'm gonna get you a dragon/ to put in your hair" during a slow number in which he was standing up and playing the guitar. I have to again claim that TLO sounds like part-Residents and sings like Jon Spencer, because he did live as well. In between numbers he would look at us and scream "Yow!" "Hell yeah!" and "Come on!" and then resume playing. Surprisingly, he did an encore for us because of the enthusiastic crowd, which applauded every time he erupted into 'carnival music' during the show. This encore involved him untangling his micro-harmonic-phone, taking up his guitar, donning some type of ankle bracelet with bells all over it, and then doing a tap dance while strumming his guitar to some hardcore "surf" tune, and then settling into a mutilated-yodel chorus (he actually did yodel, in that faux opera voice of his) before lapsing back into the surf riff. I should also note that like Mr. Rogers, The Lonesome Organist (Jeremy Jacobsen) changed his shoes before and after performing. I don't know why. He was a bit aloof as well. Phase Three: Pee-wee's Playhouse on Mars/Devo reincarnate The stage was transformed into a mad scientist's lab in space before Man...Or Astro-man? began their set. There were robots and dials galore, green television sets, a film projector showing odd 50's era video shots, and loads of spiral glow-in-the-dark tubing was strewn everywhere it possibly could be. All members wore identical red outfits (a la Devo) and various goggles and helmets. Giant machines were unveiled, an electronic voice introduced the band over some odd indescribable music, and the band jumped around like crack fiends, kicking and flailing, but in a precise and robotic fashion. It was something to behold. The kind of band whose "show" you never forget. I should use the Spanish word "espectaculo" for show because it was pretty spectacular. It's interactive like a giant video game, or virtual reality. However, it got off to a disturbing start for me. I was lucky enough to have a metal pole right behind me, guarding me from the pushy crowd and maintaining my position directly in front of the stage- but- I had one of *those* guys next to me. You know, the Uber Fan geek guy, the one who is always short, stout, pudgy, and has very hairy arms. They wear a black wristwatch and framed spectacles on their melonesque head. Most annoyingly though, is their persistence in being the CLOSEST to the stage, and station themselves directly in front the microphone and look upwards the whole time, about two inches away from the lead singer's face and in general being a parasite. Worst of all, they always seem to be in the way somehow and blocking your view. And they are gross. Anyway. I couldn't help but notice how cute the drummer is. I mistook him for a local "indie guy" when I saw him walking around, but noted his good looks. (Sorry, don't blame me, you would too.) It's too bad that he SPIT on me right at the start of the show. I don't mean spit; I got slimed. At first I thought they were throwing fake slime or something at the audience, but no, a flying goober hit my wrist. I didn't know he was the culprit then; I was rather grossed out and perplexed as to where it came from for a long period. Then the bassist in the very front, who spoke in between all the songs in a high-pitched and rapid voice, kept chastising me throughout the whole set, thinking I was unenthused (he mocked the way I had my arms folded across my chest) when in fact I was only shielding myself from the onslaught of bodily fluids. During one of his many interludes which I only half-understood, he kept teasing and said "You're not buying this, are you?" (He was talking about super-robots at the time, or something like that) and then later on made a remark directed at me and said "YOU!" but that's all I heard. Not being the overtly "fanatic" type, I was embarrassed, but then again, he and the drummer kept making absurd faces, so I spent most of the time doubled over in laughter and smiling. So I started to loosen up as they continued rocking out (oops, I mean "RAWK"). All the band members were leaping out at the people standing in front, swinging their instruments perilously close to our faces, and the drummer was quite expressive and psychotic- very similar to the lunatic drummer for The Legendary Pink Dots. Lots of energy all around. The only track I could name would be "Man Made CO2", which was also a standout among their set. "Well I know water won't affect them, but I'm making myself into a fire extinguisher...let's see now they like this dose of- CARBON DIOXIDE!" Well, their bassist certainly makes a good fire extinguisher; he was spitting all over my face. Other antics included the bassist setting his helmet on fire and running around (scaring me once again), the use of a computer keyboard for effects, the interesting way I had never seen a double-necked guitar played before (the other guitarist stood close and up against the bassist's back, in a sort of erotic posture, as they both played that guitar at the SAME time on different necks, and it was very well-timed and a lot of fun to listen/watch), and their grand finale (frightened again as the band members accosted us and made us stand further back, then formed a human shield between us and the stage) was this huge metal contraption in the center of the stage that shot purple lightening out in every direction and we all went "Oooooh." Then I was grossed out yet again, when 'Coco', the bassist, was playing with this wire gadget with his finger, which made a neat noise when he touched the pointed top, and began pressing it into the forehead of that chubby jerk standing next to me, much to his awe and delight, I'm sure. I thought, "Phew, I'm glad he's not going to do that to me, probably because I'm a girl" and I was relieved. Next thing I know, much to my own confusion and slight embarrassment from being singled out again, the lead guy was practically forehead-fucking me with that damn toy, and kept jabbing it into my head. It didn't hurt, but everyone was staring at me like I was one of their experiments. And *then*, for some odd reason, he then swabbed his forehead where the instrument had been, then rubbed the forehead of Nerd Fan Boy, and for good measure wiped his sweat all over *my* forehead. I had the typical "Ewww!" reaction, but by this time I was beginning to become accustomed to the sweat and spit sharing habits of Man...Or Astro-man? and felt baptized. Mission accomplished: Starfucking After that zany act finally ended, I was not looking forward to the looooong walk home, and the last bus back to downtown had already left an hour ago. So, I stuck around, figuring I would nab the bassist and ask him what the hell he had slimed me with, and say "I want your music, not your mucous". Which I did, and he said that it was actually the attractive drummer which had spitooned me, and offered, "At least it was you! He's always spitting on the back of my neck during shows!" The guys in M.O.A? are really nice and funny. They love talking with fans. So I ended up being there for almost two additional hours, chatting them up and hanging out. 'Coco' was the bassist who I talked to first, and then Brian (the drummer) introduced himself and asked my name, and then apologized profusely when I told him about the incident at the beginning of the show. He and Coco told me that if my forehead is infected by their strain of space malaria, I should sent it in, and they will replace it with a new one for me, but they thought it looked fine. Various odd topics were discussed, including lots of different music and bands, robots and outer space (of course), diseases, the female gestation period, their space names (I offered them the name "Zloduska" so that I could fit in and they obliged, otherwise they were calling me "Kristy" the whole time.), and their inevitable disappointment as I told them the Residents were touring the same area right now, but a bit ahead of them I went to find Brian after I was talking to "Q-Beam" for awhile (who gave me some free M.O.A? stickers), and thinking it a 'backstage' area, I unintentionally went through the door next to the stage into the dressing room, to discover him changing out of his stage outfit. Oops! Tee hee. Well, I stuck around talking to Richie, a guitarist, while the others changed and stuff. I found out that they are touring Europe this summer and fall, and they want to go to Prague as well! So, I told them I would be there in October, and we agreed that if they do indeed play Prague, we'll all meet up in some pub and hang out drinking pivo, and I could be their translator. ;-) They said to keep in touch via email. Although content, I was half-dreading the walk home in the middle of the night in a secluded area in an unfamiliar part of the city, but then as luck would have it, I encountered the guy from The Onion (AV Club editor) who was interviewing M.O.A? for the paper [No, I asked and it wasn't the guy who interviewed Robyn before], and who is also really nice, and he gave me a quick ride home. All in all, it was worth it. But I need to be disinfected. I bet Even Eb thinks all this was WAY MORE THAN YOU NEEDED TO KNOW. Too bad. ~kjs ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 07:48:52 -0400 From: J Branscombe Subject: dark end, linda thompson et al .chris, My favourite Dark End Of The Street is on an album by mad opera renegade, Diamanda Galas. It's called The Sporting Life and is produced by ex-Zep man, John Paul Jones. It's one of her more accessible albums: rocky, frightening, amusing. Also if you get the chance to see her live don't pass it up. I'm deeply doubtful that Linda is Robert's brother. She has an English accent (though that isn't a clincher) and she is quite a bit older (ditto). I sat next to her on one evening at David Thomas's Mini-Meltdown festival at the South Bank last year. She was v.nice. Next night she was on stage performing with, amongst others, David Thomas, Jackie Leven, Peter Hammill, the poet Bob Holman, the Kidney brothers (from The Numbers Band) Chris Cutler and Daved Hild. The live album has just come out on Cooking Vinyll. It's called Mirror Man, and it's fantastic. Spooky raps and songs about travelling (mutant Kerouac style-ee) through America; over a backing that contrives to be trad and experimental at the same time. Other outings last week included Ian Dury and The Blockheads and Wreckless Eric, and the very next night, David Thomas (again) and Kevin Coyne. All were magnificent. For someone who is supposedly dying of cancer Dury 'rawked' (one for our American cousins). Wreckless Eric did too, though apparently he doesn't want to be called Wreckless any more and is experimenting with dance-related music (!). David Thomas was his usual wonderful self, but it was Coyne who was the most fascinating. He's in his mid-fifties with white hair and is almost spherical (a bit strange as in the early 70s he was asked to be Jim Morrison's replacement in The Doors). He wanders around like a wind-up toy singing strange little songs in voice that encompasses Van Morrison Captain Beefheart and George Formby. Bloody excellent combination if you ask me. His new album, Sugar Candy Taxi on Ruf Records captures these eccentricities very well. He's also a painter and writer - Ring any bells..... Next week I'm seeing John Spencer backed by Sleater Kinney and, the one I'm really excited about, SCOTTY MOORE (Elvis's first guitarist for any youngsters or ignoramuses out there) I'm not expecting very much, he had a heart attack not that long ago, but I'm taking lots of things to be signed. King Elvis (jmbc) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 12:53:31 From: "she.rex" Subject: travelogue, 90% sex content ($.02) Hi! Wow! Turn my back for a minute... Caught up on three days' worth of email last night. Enjoyed the travelogue, Viv! And Jeme's additional comments. Waiting for Eddie & M. W. to chime in. Sounds like you had a great time! I guess the sexism thread is over, so I won't say much beyond this: I was Daddy's girl, and I LOVE men - I think they're the greatest invention ever. I understand them and we relate pretty well, mainly because I know the differences (Vive la difference!!) and take them into account while dealing with each one on an individual level. Jeme - exactly how many long-standing relationships have you had with a member of the opposite sex, anyway? In view of Viv's comments, I guess you're all right, but one could wonder what planet you were on when you wrote that. There are definite and fascinationg differences between the sexes and the best thing is for us (the sexes) to spend as much time together as possible so we get to know each other very well. Knowledge brings affection and understanding. Susan you're right about one thing - Men are from Mars, etc. *is* bullocks - that's why the guy was divorced soon after his book hit the fan. We don't get to know and love each other by reading idiotic books like that. But that is not in the same solar system as Joel's paper. And as someone pointed out, this *is* an assignment. One of many stupid papers he'll have to do in his life as a student. Not a good enough reason to jump on the guy and call him a sexist! Joel - sounds like an interesting idea. As for narrowing it down, what about the role *culture* has in the socialization, and hence in the different communication styles, of men and women? There are huge variations there, and though you probably have to do this based on songs in English, still America has all these pockets of different cultures that the songwriters and singers are from. What about the differences in how men from say a WASP or German background would express themselves, as opposed to those from a Mediterranean background like Italian or Greek? Grown Greek men will talk to each other and openly cry, yet they consider themselves some of the most macho dudes around. And is the culture role bigger or smaller for women than the sex role, since women's issues are so brought to the fore of late, whereas no one really talks about *men's* issues as if they have to be separated out in the same way. In a majority (read Caucasian) group is sex more important than what part of Europe one's ancestors came from? In a minority (e.g. black or Hispanic) group, is race more important than sex? These are intersting questions and can be used to determine the effect of the current socialization pattern of different groups of people in just this one country, let alone the world. I also think it's worth mentioning that 1) Fegs are not really a representative group of the population, but rather a fairly small subgroup with certain special characteristics and 2) as someone also pointed out, singers/songwriters aren't a representative group, either. It does take an extra something for a person to express themselves in some art form. In my experience, creative people, and people who will get up and perform in front of others, tend to be those that buck the trends more than usual (or maybe that's just the ones *I* listen to?). I'm sure this paper takes that into consideration and the fact that this is a subgroup is rhetorical. We should not fear knowledge, or asking questions. Knowledge brings responsibility and power for change. But let's not attach such lofty and grandiose goals to this paper. I don't think anyone seriously does, least of all Joel and his liguistics teacher. Just my 2 cents. She.Rex (no time for a lyric - I gotta split - it's a quaint old fashioned way...) ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #138 *******************************