From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #122 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, April 3 1999 Volume 08 : Number 122 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons [Chris Franz ] Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons [Terrence M Marks ] ignore ["Paul Christian Glenn" ] Elliott and Journey [Joel Mullins ] goddamn April Fools!!!!! [Joel Mullins ] Re: RIP: Jesse Stone.... [amadain ] Re: RIP: Jesse Stone.... [amadain ] 12 [Eb ] fegs with Web pages... [Glen Uber ] then again... [Eb ] Re: then again... [Ben ] Mac CD Burner advise needed [steve ] RE: cd's are too long ["Russ Reynolds" ] the readers doglist on the net ! [dlang ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #119 [dlang ] big star cd [dlang ] Re: 12 [Aaron Mandel ] Re: 12 ["JH3" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:12:26 -0800 From: Chris Franz Subject: Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons Tews mused: > one (at least *this* one) wonders why, if he was going to use a full > band for this record, he couldn't have just used the egyptians? maybe > they weren't availabe, i guess. and not that i have anything against > the viva sea-tac boys (assuming that's principally who the band is > comprised of), but the egyptians are *so* good, that it seems kind of a > crime to make a full-band record without them. although kimberley's on > it, right? I think he made a conscious decision to break up the Egyptians, and I really expect quite a hodgepodge of musicians to be assembled on this record. Does anybody have any speculation on which -sessions- will be included on JFS? IIRC, he's been in the studio with Homer (and maybe Kimberley) in the UK, with the Viva Sea-Tac Boys in Seattle, and a variety of people in LA (Grant Lee Phillips, Jon, Andy Metcalfe, some tabla player...). Jon Brion will no doubt play a bunch of instruments on the final product. > really can't be sure that's what he said. It's a logical conclusion, I > suppose...it seems unlikely that he would write two concurrent songs > with such similar titles, doesn't it?> > > Cheese Alarm and Direct Me To The Cheese actually *were* written at > roughly the same time, i think. but he never plays the latter anymore. > it's not as good as Cheese Alarm, but it's still a good little song. At the risk of being branded a weenie, The first reference to "Direct Me To The Cheese" that I'm aware of is an interview on 4/15/95, while I don't believe The Cheese Alarm was unveiled until the Princess Di gig, 8/31/97. Anyway, he and the Largo gang did a great arrangement of The Cheese Alarm at one of the earlier Largo shows (featuring a long instrumental intro) that would certainly be worthy of inclusion on the next album. Eb: > those classic 38-minute albums he was talking about were released in an > era when bands released new albums every 8 months. It's a different > story now -- albums aren't perceived in that "here's the latest little > helping of the Byrds" context anymore. Albums are Big Definitive > Statements, and more importantly, they only come out every year and a > half or so, at best.> I've been wondering about this for a while. I had always assumed that album length was determined in large part by what would reasonably fit onto a 12" piece of black vinyl, and that maintaining the same length was somewhat anachronistic with the advent of CDs. Probably half of Mossy Liquor could have been crammed on the end of Moss Elixir if he'd tried. Does it really come down to technicalities with regards to royalties? > work?> > > Your Sign Language (if that's what it's called), Elizabeth Jade, NASA > Clapping, maybe Viva Sea-Tac. We Are The Underneath, maybe. Am I the only person who really likes this song? Installing a new CD player in the car before the long drive today, - - Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:27:25 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Chris Franz wrote: > We Are The Underneath, maybe. Am I the only person who really likes > this song? No. I think it's great, esp. the backing vocals on the "what's left when you take away everything" part. Terrence Marks Unlike Minerva (a comic strip) http://grove.ufl.edu/~normal normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:26:06 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: RIP: Jesse Stone.... Old guy, one of the fathers of rock and/or roll. I don't think he was ever covered by the Egyptians. Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 12:53:48 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons Runion: >Is that Eb building a miniature Mir spacestation out of Legos? Is sure >as hell is!!! Jesus Christ, he's even got the solar array distribution >for maximum energy absorbion dead damn on! God, an that evil smirk >just reeks of an early 70's fascination with Soviet-style communism. >Eddie indeed picks his subjects very carefully... No, *I* picked that photo very carefully, and specifically BECAUSE it had an "evil smirk." ;) I scanned a selection of childhood photos quite awhile ago. There's a whole folder of them on my hard drive. Branscombe: >However Conrad's biggies, IMO, are Under Western Eyes, The Secret >Agent, Lord Jim and Nostromo. The last mentioned is one of the great 20th >century novels, and David Lean's final, unrealised project. There was a big production of "Nostromo" on PBS awhile back. I think it was four hours long. I taped it, but still haven't gotten around to watching the second half. Gloster: >Oh. The _Shut Up Little Man_ transcription on one of Eddies links >somehow reminds me of The Eddie Tews Blowsian Capitalist Repertory >Theatre interpretation of _Waiting for Godoh_ "Godoh"? Have you been hanging around with Quail, lately? Franz: >I think he made a conscious decision to break up the Egyptians, and I >really expect quite a hodgepodge of musicians to be assembled on this >record. Does anybody have any speculation on which -sessions- will be >included on JFS? IIRC, he's been in the studio with Homer (and maybe >Kimberley) in the UK, with the Viva Sea-Tac Boys in Seattle, and a >variety of people in LA (Grant Lee Phillips, Jon, Andy Metcalfe, some >tabla player...). Jon Brion will no doubt play a bunch of instruments >on the final product. I neglected to ask Robyn about the musicians playing on the record, but he did mention that he had recorded in a few different places. Starting out in Seattle, then doing more in L.A...seems like there was a third city mentioned as well, but I could be wrong. Maybe it was just more than one studio in L.A. He also was discussing Brion's old-fashioned keyboards (Chamberlin, etc.) with Rhett of the Old 97s, at one point. Ready for the final irony? I think I've come down with one of my classic post-crowded-nightclub colds today. Did Robyn infect me? ;P Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 15:37:29 -0600 From: "Paul Christian Glenn" Subject: ignore check ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:18:57 -0800 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Elliott and Journey Hey, did anyone else hear about Elliott Smith's new plans. He's now touring with the newly-reunited Journey. He'll be opening up and then playing with them as a back-up guitar player. For more info and tour dates, see: Later Joel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 16:21:32 -0800 From: Joel Mullins Subject: goddamn April Fools!!!!! Okay, so I'm a complete idiot! That last email I sent about Elliott Smith and Journey is not true. I was April Fooled!...a day late. Sorry Joel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:29:30 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: RIP: Jesse Stone.... >Old guy, one of the fathers of rock and/or roll. He was one fucking brilliant vocal arranger. Check out The Clovers' doo-wop goes be-bop "Nip Sip" if you don't know what I'm talking about. Classy stuff. Extremely influential guy. I'm very upset to hear this, because I feel he died without ever properly receiving his due. >I don't think he was ever covered by the Egyptians. I think his arrangements were probably too complex to be copied on the fly a la "Book of Love"- the majority of them would have taken more effort to learn than they probably wanted to put in for that sort of joke/tribute. But thanks for the OB Robyn thought :) Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 21:29:48 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: RIP: Jesse Stone.... >>Old guy, one of the fathers of rock and/or roll. > >He was one fucking brilliant vocal arranger. Check out The Clovers' doo-wop >goes be-bop "Nip Sip" if you don't know what I'm talking about. Classy >stuff. Oh yeah....sorry to follow up on myself..... But I got out my Clovers' CD (always glad for an excuse to do so!), which contains some fine arranging and writing from Mr. Stone, done under the pseudonym of Charles Calhoun. I noticed that on it there's one Charles Calhoun composition a fair amount of people are guaranteed to know- the marvelous "Your Cash Ain't Nothin' But Trash", which actually might indeed have made a good Soft Boys cover. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:26:07 -0800 From: Eb Subject: 12 Hmmm. I'm curious about this whole mechanical-royalties-for-no-more-than-12-tracks/album-length issue, so I did a bit of relevant "lab work." I quickly thumbed through the 1998 releases in my permanent collection, to see how many had more than 12 tracks, and how many had 12 or less. Get this: there were 102 releases to check, and it was split exactly 51 to 51! And of the 12-or-less discs, there WERE an awful lot that totalled 12 tracks, even. (I didn't bother with the "hidden track" factor -- I was just looking at the backs of the CDs, not putting them in the player. And yes, I don't own any vinyl records or cassettes from 1998.) So I don't know if this really proves anything, but I admit that I would've guessed more releases would have over 12 tracks. Well, anyway, it seems that if Robyn chose to release an album with more than 12 songs, he wouldn't exactly be making headlines. Now, regarding Joel's theory that albums are longer today only because individual tracks are longer, not because the number of tracks per album has risen, I dunno but I'm suspicious. I suppose the best test here would've been to find 12-or-less-track albums which were also fairly lengthy. But as I already implied, I wasn't motivated enough to drop all the CDs in the player to check their total times. I will say this: glancing at the printout, the only lengthy 12-or-less-track albums which jump out at me are Sonic Youth's A Thousand Leaves, the Lounge Lizards' Queen of All Ears and the most extreme example, Photek's Form & Function (12 tracks, almost 80 minutes long). Just three of them. So, I suspect that Joel's theory wouldn't quite hold up. Saying that the average track length today is over four minutes definitely sounds like an overestimation to me. Herb Cohen of Manifesto Records is a big music-biz lawyer, and posts on Usenet occasionally. I might email him and ask about these royalty issues. Numbercrunchily, Eb PS I counted Storefront Hitchcock as a 12-or-less item, because I didn't count all the spoken-word indexes. And I don't have the vinyl version, with the extra tracks. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:42:50 -0800 (PST) From: Glen Uber Subject: fegs with Web pages... Hey All, Many of us have web pages. And on these pages, many of us have a link to fegmania.org. And in our many web surfin safaris we have run across the "uber"quitous Netscape Now! buttons. Am I correct on all counts, feg-brethern and sisteren? I have created a little "fegMANIA NOW!" button that can be downloaded and added to your web pages and other net projects to link to fegmania.org. It's my way of saying thanks to woj for having such an awesome site and to all of you for making fegMANIAX! such an awesome mailing list. If you like the button and end up using it on your page, please acknowledge me as the creator somewhere on your page. Also, make sure it links only to fegmania.org. The button can be found at: http://www.sonic.net/~uberg/fegnow.gif To see it in action on my page, go to http://www.sonic.net/~uberg Have a great Easter weekend, Passover, feast of Oestris, Daylight Savings weekend, or whatever it is you happen to celebrate Cheers! - -Glen- )+()+()+()+()+( Glen Uber uberg@sonic.net )+()+()+()+()+( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 20:03:45 -0800 From: Eb Subject: then again... ...there's the chance that there really ARE a lot more >12-track albums, but I dump a lot higher percentage of those? In which case, that proves Robyn's postulate about good albums being short. Hm. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 00:13:04 -0500 From: Ben Subject: Re: then again... When you say "dump" albums, do you mean that you sell/trade them, or give them away? And are these albums ones that you were sent free? Eb wrote: > ...there's the chance that there really ARE a lot more >12-track albums, > but I dump a lot higher percentage of those? In which case, that proves > Robyn's postulate about good albums being short. Hm. > > Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 23:46:51 -0600 From: steve Subject: Mac CD Burner advise needed Bill Nelson may be releasing new songs via an MP3 subscription site, thus necessitating the purchase of a CD burner. I know that certain models are preferred, and I would welcome advise on which one to buy. I am using a PowerMac 7300/200 with 96MB RAM and running 8.5. I'm not exactly sure of the time frame, so I may be able to purchase a new G3 before the site goes up. Are there any USB CD burners that are worth recommending? I know that Toast comes with a lot of burners. Great name aside, is it the application of choice? Thanks - Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 23:13:15 -0800 From: "Russ Reynolds" Subject: RE: cd's are too long Ferris: >I don't know....when you shell out $18 for a retail priced cd--or more for >an import--I think it's nice to "get your money's worth" with a nice, full >disc. All fine and good if the disc is worth listening to all the way through. If half the disc is crap, or if you tire of it after 35 minutes, what's the point? What fun is an $18 disc if you have to put half of it in a doggie bag and finish it later? >Too often I catch myself saying "why'd they stick that track on there?" when >there's only 8 or 9 others to support it. When you've got a disc with, say, >17 tracks, it's a lot easier (in my mind) to forgive someone for a more weak >track. Sorry, I don't get this. Why not just lop off the weak track and have a stronger album? I don't enjoy weak songs spoiling an otherwise pleasurable listening experience. Doug: >incidentally, some of my very favorite albums of all time e.g. _london >calling_, game theory's _lolita nation_ are quite long, or were originally >double albums, so i've no intrinsic objection to long records, but i do >have an intrinsic objection to filler. "Me too." I thought the Smashing Pumpkins "Melon Collie..." was one of the best albums of the decade...partly because there was such a wide range of sonic textures on that album that even the weaker tracks contributed to the whole (a la Beatles White Album). I have no trouble listening to both discs in succession when I have the time. Their Latest offering, on the other hand, is pretty one dimensional and I can't listen to more than about 20 minutes of it at once without getting antsy for something more substantial. Less would definitely have been more in that case. Eb: >Regarding the CD-length issue, probably the most dismaying thing Robyn told >me was that the new album would only be 11 tracks and 40ish minutes. To me, >this is another symptom of him being too unwilling to enter a contemporary >mindset. I dunno...I find it ironic that in an era of media geared toward shorter and shorter attention spans the "contemporary mindset" calls for longer CD's. I think Robyn's got the right idea keeping his albums short and sweet. Always leave 'em hungry for more and you'll never wear out your welcome. >The thing I wish I had >told Robyn was that he seems to forget that those classic 38-minute albums >he was talking about were released in an era when bands released new albums >every 8 months. It's a different story now -- albums aren't perceived in >that "here's the latest little helping of the Byrds" context anymore. >Albums are Big Definitive Statements, and more importantly, they only come >out every year and a half or so, at best. Eleven songs don't usually >stretch that far. Nothing stretches that far. This is a whole 'nother topic, but a good deal of what's wrong with the music industry stems from the fact that the acts who capture our fancy while in their early 20's mature and write songs from a completely different point of view by the time we hear from them again. They go from point A to point C and we never get the chance to hear point B. Whereas the bands of the sixties were able to get four or five strong albums out before the creative juices waned, nowadays we're lucky if they can manage two. Enduring acts will be few and far between unless they are allowed to create on a continual basis. - -rUss ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:23:21 +0930 From: dlang Subject: the readers doglist on the net ! Fegs, an easter treat for you all ? as promised months ago, I said I would be installing the files of the Readers doglist on the web, a goodly portion of this muck is now viewable here http://freeweb.digiweb.com/music/mudfest/index.html the doglist link is at the bottom of the page under the heading , the silly files theres four foglas nunucq stories , plus one of mine, Biffo and fetish get their man, the site is probably worth viewing just to see the drawings of frank maustali, who is very good indeed. . feg x. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:26:26 +0930 From: dlang Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #119 well done oh gnat, I will add this to the posse page asap. feg x ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 00:32:03 +0930 From: dlang Subject: big star cd fegs, I will have a cd of the big star basement performance from the dat sbd in my sweaty palms by tuesday, I will report back as to its worthiness , I also have the means to acquire a ist gen copy of robyn at the bull and gate 8-3-94.Apparently this show was supposed to be electric, but the amps blew up the circuits, so they played acoustic, also Robyn asked at the end of the show if anyone had taped it or not , so the taper sent him a copy. The taper reckons it pretty good. anyone with more info ? Is this easily available or not ? feg x ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:21:39 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: 12 On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Eb wrote: > So I don't know if this really proves anything, but I admit that I > would've guessed more releases would have over 12 tracks. Well, > anyway, it seems that if Robyn chose to release an album with more > than 12 songs, he wouldn't exactly be making headlines. here's the scoop on my collection: 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 25 51 108 102 157 82 77 53 39 now, that's not sorted by year or anything, which may explain why 10- and 11-track albums share in the glory of profusion. as for how this applies to Robyn, i'd be all for shorter, more frequent albums. however, that's not going to happen. a ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 1999 11:57:10 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: 12 Soapbox time! I guess it's inevitable that I get involved in any thread that gives me a chance to criticize record companies, but it might just as easily be argued that the 12-song limit is imposed in the name of fairness. As has already been mentioned: There is no legal limit to the number of songs per disc/album that a record company can (or should) pay mechanical royalties on. That number is totally arbitrary; the major-label "standard contract" has traditionally contained a 12-song limit because the record companies have gotten away with that ever since the 1950's, but labels have also been known to reduce that number when forcing concessions from bands (XTC) or even increase it to keep artists on their rosters (Madonna). It's pretty simple, really: Because mechanicals get paid on a flat-rate, per-song basis, the labels imposed the limit to prevent artists from recording a large number of short throwaway songs - thereby taking more of the proceeds away from the labels, since mechanicals are paid to artists independently of sales royalties. The sales royalties are applied to the artist's account to pay off their recording advance and production/promotional costs until the artist "recoups", at which point the artist might actually start making some money. And it's well-known that those production/promotional cost figures are where most of the accounting deception and chicanery take place. It's more difficult to hide the number-of-units-sold figure, and it's usually not in the label's interests to do that anyway. Pro-rating artist payments based on the duration of their albums wouldn't work either from the label's perspective, because then the artist could simply extend some or all of their songs with lengthy Dead-esque instrumental jams, thus rendering them somewhat less commercial. (My Gaaad, it would be prog-rock all over again.) Blah, blah, blah. >I quickly thumbed through the 1998 releases in my permanent >collection, to see how many had more than 12 >tracks, and how many had 12 or less. Get this: there were >102 releases to check, and it was split exactly 51 to 51! I'll bet the 51 that were limited to 12 tracks or less were mostly on major labels, and the ones with 12+, especially those with, like, 18+, were mostly indie releases. John H. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #122 *******************************