From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #121 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, April 2 1999 Volume 08 : Number 121 Today's Subjects: ----------------- beware the fools of april [Miles Goosens ] Re: Bob Dylan's take on Bulworth ["D B" ] Various Stuffs and Request for Info on Robyn's Mamagement in the US?? ["C] Re: cd's are too long [Joel Mullins ] Re: beware the fools of april [Joel Mullins ] Re: Greatest Hits ["JH3" ] RE: cd's are too long [dmw ] maybe eddie will like this one better? [dmw ] the boy who talked to homing beacons ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons [Mike Runion Subject: beware the fools of april I listen to albums straight through whenever possible. My CD players may as well not have the "shuffle" button. I hope it's "Cheese Alarm" and not "I Cheese You" that's going on the new album -- the former is a great improvement over the latter, IMO. Album lengths: as doug said, depends on the album! No special dispensations for SANDINISTA! needed in my case, since I love the whole thing and wouldn't label any of it filler. I do find myself gravitating toward more concise albums lately, though I don't know if it's a consequence of aging (as per Mike Runion's post), or if the shorter '98 releases were just better. Spoiler for my still-delayed 1998 wrap-up: in it, I try to figure out the difference between two relentlessly downbeat '98 albums, one I loved (Beck's MUTATIONS) and one I ehhhhh'd (my beloved REM's UP). My conclusion: the difference is about 20 minutes. :-) The JMBC: >Apocalypse Now has little to do with Heart Of Darkness. It clearly takes it as a starting point -- the journey up the river, Kurtz, etc. But IMO APOCALYPSE NOW easily surpasses "Heart of Darkness." The latter is the best thing Conrad ever wrote, but the film reaches a level of power and transcendence that I never got from Conrad's dense jungle of hypersymbolic verbiage. Eb sez: >MG: >>The 'long' CD is unlistenable > >Huh...I think Element of Light has one of the very best sets of bonus >tracks, out of the Rhino series. Forced to agree with Eb on this one -- the four original bonus tracks ("The Black Crow Knows," "The Leopard," "The Crawling," and "Tell Me About Your Drugs") are some of my all-time favorite Robyn songs. Of course, they aren't marked as bonus tracks on the Rhino version, so many listers may not know them as "bonus" babies. The Rhino edition adds six more tracks, which are nice enough, but not essential. I usually just put in another CD once "Tell Me About Your Drugs" goes off. Ben explains "rawk": >It's just another "I'm too sophisticated to like AC/DC-ish rock bands" Fegism. I love AC/DC. This is not a seasonal joke. In fact, one of my 1999 resolutions is to replace the AC/DC stuff that was stolen from me a few years ago by buying an AC/DC CD (remastered nowadays, hooray!) every month. This month's choice will be HIGHWAY TO HELL, which is as good as any record I have ever owned. Ben: >As a devoted Mariah Carey fan, I can testify that her most brilliant work >can be found on single B-sides and tracks exclusive to Japanese imports. The >"casual fans" will probably only be familiar with her "hits" they've seen on >MTV. Of course, "Ones" contains fantastic material, (after all it's Mariah) >but you owe it to yourself to dig deeper. This is the best April Fool's post I've seen today! Oh crap, Eb said that already... later, Miles ================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website, now with sound! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal page, all silent all the time: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles Join the Wire Mailing List: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/wire ================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 19:43:01 PST From: "D B" Subject: Re: Bob Dylan's take on Bulworth Saw Bulworth tonight and it made me real sad because I knew Beatty was right and he was now an anachronism and that Kosovo is merely a symbol of what he was trying to say, and perhaps did, but so what, because we’re all living in a house of cards, Robyn Hitchcock or not… So hug somebody now… Bob Dylan. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 20:16:12 -0800 From: "Chris!" Subject: Various Stuffs and Request for Info on Robyn's Mamagement in the US?? Howdy-- First off, Eb's recollection of the statement by Lou B. of certain KCRW programing as "Morning Becomes Pretentious" is beyond compare. It is *so* true. Don't believe? You can check the program out on real audio if your equipped for such things. The release date for the album and lack of foresight for publicity concerning it is a very typical Robyn-thing it seems to me. The A&M years were hyped but the last album did not get the push like the others. It seemed that the company knew that he was not going to sell more than a small amount at the end. This seems to be a realization that WBR might be coming to. For example, the Storefront concept was a cult success in marketing; did not get much beyond a certain crowd. Sort of makes me wonder why they bother? I mean Nick Lowe it not on a major label and he got more publicity for his last album than Robyn did and seems all the happier for it. Also, does anyone know who Robyn's current management in the US is?? E-mail me off list if you don't want such stuff spread around in public. Also, and you know but don't want to tell me without good reason, I can provide you with one. .chris (who has yet to take a nap and is walking to the post office box soon) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:15:41 -0800 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: cd's are too long Eb wrote: > The thing I wish I had > told Robyn was that he seems to forget that those classic 38-minute albums > he was talking about were released in an era when bands released new albums > every 8 months. It's a different story now -- albums aren't perceived in > that "here's the latest little helping of the Byrds" context anymore. > Albums are Big Definitive Statements, and more importantly, they only come > out every year and a half or so, at best. Eleven songs don't usually > stretch that far. I don't think I agree with this. The length of time between the release of new albums has little to do with the length of the albums and vice versa. I mean, I doubt it takes 10 months to add 12 minutes to an album. Also, I don't think artists put more songs on albums these days. It's the individual song length that has changed. A Hard Days Night had 13 songs and it's only 30 minutes long. Rubber Soul has 14 songs and it's 35 minutes. In those days, the average song length was under 3 minutes. That average has probably gone up at least a minute. Billy Joel explains this very well in The Entertainer: "If you're gonna have a hit, you gotta make it fit, so they cut it down to 3.05." Anyway, IMHO, songs, on the average, are about a minute longer today than they were back in the days of the 38 minute album. And if you put 12 songs on an album, well there's your extra 12 minutes. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:28:42 -0800 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: beware the fools of april Miles Goosens wrote: > > I listen to albums straight through whenever possible. My CD players may > as well not have the "shuffle" button. The "shuffle" button is to be used for parties. When you have keg of beer and a lot of people at your house, you pick out some people and ask them to pick one CD. You also pick one CD. Then you put the selection in and hit shuffle. Then it just becomes background music while you get really drunk, except for when you're taking a piss and then you start singing along to the Boston your friend picked, but after zipping up, you get another beer, go outside for a smoke, and forget there's music playing. At least, that's what it says in my owner's manual. > Forced to agree with Eb on this one -- the four original bonus tracks ("The > Black Crow Knows," "The Leopard," "The Crawling," and "Tell Me About Your > Drugs") are some of my all-time favorite Robyn songs. Of course, they > aren't marked as bonus tracks on the Rhino version, so many listers may not > know them as "bonus" babies. I don't know if I would consider them "bonus" tracks. I have the LP, which doesn't have those songs, the cassette, which also doesn't have those songs, and the CD on Glass Fish, which does have those songs and was released in 1986, the same year as the LP and cassette. So, as far as I know, EoL has never been released on CD without those songs. It sounds like just one of those times when the artist puts different track listings on the different formats. Kinda like he did on Storefront. A little different, but the same idea. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 23:16:02 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: Greatest Hits Ben writes: >As a devoted Mariah Carey fan, I can testify that her most brilliant work >can be found on single B-sides and tracks exclusive to Japanese imports. The >"casual fans" will probably only be familiar with her "hits" they've seen on >MTV. Of course, "Ones" contains fantastic material, (after all it's Mariah) >but you owe it to yourself to dig deeper. I guess a lot of you *thought* this was an April Fool's Day post, but then you've obviously never heard "Mariah: The '76 Stockholm Basement Tapes", "Praxis: The Carey/Cage/Coyne Sessions", or "Metal Machine Mariah Music." Get *with* it, people! - -JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:22:06 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: RE: cd's are too long On Thu, 1 Apr 1999, Aaron Mandel wrote: > On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 Mark_Gloster@3com.com wrote: > > > I agree. There is the little matter of _no_ major labels paying for > > more than 12 tracks (yes, this is true.) It can seem to fragment a CD > > there are some that go with 10, some 12; anyone know which are which? a > lot of people believe this is actually mandated by law, but ASCAP says > it's just written into most contracts. but this is mechanicals, not songwriting (publishing) royalties, right? "pictures of perfection make me sick and wicked." -- miss jane austen - - oh no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net dmw@mwmw.com - - get yr pathos:www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:29:15 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: maybe eddie will like this one better? i'm drunker than i want to be, and my hair is still bluer than i want it to be. we've had better shows. - -- d. "pictures of perfection make me sick and wicked." -- miss jane austen - - oh no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmw@radix.net dmw@mwmw.com - - get yr pathos:www.pathetic-caverns.com -- books, flicks, tunes, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 01:33:17 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: the boy who talked to homing beacons speaking of which, if anybody gets a chance to talk to him after one o' the gigs, could you please ask him when he's planning on touring the states? i would think that, with a record coming out in july (even though it'll probably be bumped back to august or september), that it could well be soon. it seemed fairly linear. left a few things out, sure. in your dreams, buddy! anyway, if you'd been equipped to tape the gig, you could've taped your conversation, too. <5) Songs Robyn says are certain to be on the album: "Jewels for Sophia," "Dark Princess," "Viva Seatac," "The Cheese is Alone" (I *think* that was the title), "I Feel Beautiful" (ditto) and "Time Will Destroy You Like a Mexican God." There's a chance he named one more -- throw me a few titles, and see if one rings a bell.> Elizabeth Jade???? Adoration Of The City??? (sorry, mike g., but i really love this song.) I Thought I Heard NASA Clapping?? 1974? (even though it's on STOREFRONT, i'd like to hear a studio version.) wonder if he's replaced tim's guitar part with piano? that would be kinda interesting. probably not, though. did you tell him you're the resident naysayer? one (at least *this* one) wonders why, if he was going to use a full band for this record, he couldn't have just used the egyptians? maybe they weren't availabe, i guess. and not that i have anything against the viva sea-tac boys (assuming that's principally who the band is comprised of), but the egyptians are *so* good, that it seems kind of a crime to make a full-band record without them. although kimberley's on it, right? is there a chance the egyptians could tour behind the record, do you think? oops! sorry, papa. i've changed it. it's called "artistic license", you dick. that's why i didn't put it in quotes. you don't *have* to claim it, it's just *known*. i figured it out. it's some fucking java bullshit that geocities is apparently now automatically adding to every new page you create unless you go in and manually removed it. which i have done. and it now loads lickety-splickety. but i'm still waitin' for y'all to send me some more of those outrageous links eb has procured. by the way, i had no idea anybody could go in and look at your markup tabs. not that i'm so opposed to it, i guess. it just seems kind of weird. i've never pressed you on this, because i figure all tastes are valid. but just what is it about tool that you don't like, eb? is it simply the genre (high voltage rock and/or roll)? or something else? ha! i'd forgotten that you are a closet dan bern fan. added a little bit about that, too. well, you'll have to take that up with commander lang. anyhow, yes, it's loading much more quickly now, so go have a look: . Cheese Alarm and Direct Me To The Cheese actually *were* written at roughly the same time, i think. but he never plays the latter anymore. it's not as good as Cheese Alarm, but it's still a good little song. this is all true, of course. but there's an exception here, as STOREFRONT was just released a few months ago. besides which, he'll probably be doing that cd/vinyl thing again. we hope so, anyway! as i mentioned last week, he was rocking out like a goddamned madman at the bologna show. i ain't kidding. Your Sign Language (if that's what it's called), Elizabeth Jade, NASA Clapping, maybe Viva Sea-Tac. that deserves "wow." i love them too. but not that much! i'd rate DIRTY DEEDS and BACK IN BLACK above HIGHWAY TO HELL. you know what's quite an underrated one, though? FLY ON THE WALL. really. http://leb.net/iac/ "As we often see in US foreign policy, other nations' attempts to defend themselves from US attacks are defined as aggression." --Jake Sexton Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 02:10:29 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons Eddie: ><5) Songs Robyn says are certain to be on the album: "Jewels for >Sophia," "Dark Princess," "Viva Seatac," "The Cheese is Alone" (I >*think* that was the title), "I Feel Beautiful" (ditto) and "Time Will >Destroy You Like a Mexican God." There's a chance he named one more -- >throw me a few titles, and see if one rings a bell.> > >Elizabeth Jade???? >Adoration Of The City??? (sorry, mike g., but i really love this song.) >I Thought I Heard NASA Clapping?? >1974? (even though it's on STOREFRONT, i'd like to hear a studio >version.) Hmmm, I don't really think so. Maybe I *did* name all the songs RH listed for me. I dunno. By the way, I wasn't sure if it was "I Feel Beautiful" or "I Feel SO Beautiful," but I guess that I got it right, since no one corrected me. > > >i've never pressed you on this, because i figure all tastes are valid. >but just what is it about tool that you don't like, eb? Hideous pretentiousness. Hideous padding of their albums, to make them seem "important" (talk about CD-length issues -- is there ANY album more padded than Aenima?) Hideous singing. Utter tunelessness. Unrelenting dreariness. Etc. Etc. Etc. > > >ha! i'd forgotten that you are a closet dan bern fan. added a little >bit about that, too. You probably should mention NMH, Rufus, brown mucus and the Grateful Dead too, eh? Those all seem to be part of the Eb Mythology. ;) >Cheese Alarm and Direct Me To The Cheese actually *were* written at >roughly the same time, i think. but he never plays the latter anymore. >it's not as good as Cheese Alarm, but it's still a good little song. He definitely didn't say either "Direct Me to the Cheese" or whatever that other cheese song was which someone else mentioned earlier today. It WAS probably "Cheese Alarm." After all, this was the song chosen to be on that Launch.com Christmas-card CD sampler which I mentioned receiving awhile back. By the way, I have been informed that my "Eat the Scoop" post somehow got forwarded in full to the Jon Brion mailing list. Irritating. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:01:12 -0500 From: Mike Runion Subject: Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons Capitalism Blows said concerning the new and wonderous Eb Shrine: > anyhow, yes, it's loading much more quickly now, so go have a look: > . Is that Eb building a miniature Mir spacestation out of Legos? Is sure as hell is!!! Jesus Christ, he's even got the solar array distribution for maximum energy absorbion dead damn on! God, an that evil smirk just reeks of an early 70's fascination with Soviet-style communism. Eddie indeed picks his subjects very carefully... Quail and Commander Lang, I think you need to dive on this quickly and surely in order to prevent further unspeakable horrors. Mike (now ripping up his engineering degree) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:36:52 -0500 From: J Branscombe Subject: to the white sea, various Soft Boy updates Miles Goosens wrote >Heart Of Darkness is the best thing Conrad ever wrote. Whoa Tiger! The most famous certainly, but only due to the Coppola connection.(Does anyone know if it's true that Brando didn't read it before filming?) I probably agree that Apocalypse now is better than its source material. However Conrad's biggies, IMO, are Under Western Eyes, The Secret Agent, Lord Jim and Nostromo. The last mentioned is one of the great 20th century novels, and David Lean's final, unrealised project. ('Lost film' thread? To The White Sea, perhaps?) Talking of literary giants, no sooner do I start mouthing off about Malcolm Lowry than Eb announces a new Robyn song called Time Will Destroy You Like A Mexican God. Lowry's Under The Volcano, set in the foothills of Popocatepetl (which is also mentioned in a Momus number, fact fans) is stuffed with Central American religious mythology. The new Rew album I mentioned is well on its way. It now includes contributions from ex-Waves Alex Cooper and Vince De La Cruz, as well as Mattacks on drums and some guitar and vox from RH, though I'm not quite sure how much. The band The Lonely with whom Kim guests (he's actually, practically speaking a permanent member) are playing at The World's End, Finsbury Park, north London on Wed. 8th, so get along and see the man himself. The Lonely's excellent Rarer Gifts CD is available from Greyhound Records www.greyhound-records.com. Kimberley and Andy Metcalfe also play on a soon to be released, Metcalfe produced album by a chap called Julian Dawson. Andy has apparently been doing some production work for Geffen in America - no further details on that. I'm off to the Queen Elizabeth Hall on the 8th to see a soul-mate of Robyn's: Kevin Coyne. He writes, paints, sings twisted, beautiful folk-rocky songs and is distinctly unfashionable - get the picture? He is co-headlining with David Thomas from Pere Ubu, another neglected maestro. Then the next night I'm going to see Ian Dury and The Blockheads with Wreckless Eric, yet another underrated blah, blah, blah. Supporting all these mavericks is such hard work... jmbc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 09:09:06 -0800 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons Capitalism Blows wrote: > > > i've never pressed you on this, because i figure all tastes are valid. > but just what is it about tool that you don't like, eb? is it simply > the genre (high voltage rock and/or roll)? or something else? I'll answer this. Tool sucks because the melodies suck and the guy can't sing. It's not very musical. Joel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 08:15:54 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: RE: cd's are too long DMW dixit: >> On Thu, 1 Apr 1999 Mark_Gloster@3com.com wrote: > >> > I agree. There is the little matter of _no_ major labels paying for >> > more than 12 tracks (yes, this is true.) It can seem to fragment a CD > >> there are some that go with 10, some 12; anyone know which are which? a >> lot of people believe this is actually mandated by law, but ASCAP says >> it's just written into most contracts. >but this is mechanicals, not songwriting (publishing) royalties, right? No, I think it is. The performance (radio airplay) mechanicals are untouched. The sales mechanical royalties are affected. I need to stare at that book again until my eyes cross and drool comes out of my mouth and my ears droop- I'm there already and I haven't even cracked the book. Not a good sign. The neat thing about being the only artist on your own label is that you almost never have to worry about things like having any money to distribute, collect, tape to your body parts etc. But at least I have the total artistic freedom to place a charicature of a shark barfing me up on the cover of my CD, and isn't that what expression is all about? More on the topic of CD's being too long.... My music-enviro-religion says that one shouldn't waste the resources that go into making CD's. One shouldn't make them if he/she has nothing to say. After wasting 99.9% of the time I have in screening rooms with recording industry professionals who were dying because the artist was saying absolutely nothing- anywhere from poorly to eloquently: I think that most people really need collaborators- especially lyrical ones. The bane of the artistic world is that many people who have the least to say have the greatest wherewithall to say it. I'm sure that this is offensive to some people, but dammit, I really believe this. Assuming the songs are good, the artist should try to provide maximum real entertainment to their own belief of what that is. It seems incredibly arbitrary to say (no offense Mr. Hitchcock) that there is an optimal time for an album. A good song is how long it needs to be- a good CD is the same. Fuck airplay, that's a crap shoot anyway (so to speak), though a lot of long songs _are_ just long. Don't waste the resources, and give as much as you can. They can skip the songs they don't like and it will be a long time before you will put out another one. - -- By the way, being a MacHead, I hate manuals, but my manual says the same thing that Joel's does about the use of the shuffle button. Mine does have an expanded section about getting a safe out-of- earshot distance away from the sound source, taking a piss through a small hole in the fence on the evil stupid horrible dog next door while the 23-minute Mariah Carey progressive heavy metal salsa medley about having wild and pornographic sex with dolphins and mafiosos while living on a spaceship made entirely of love drones on and on and on, but Joel kindly spared you that 17 pages. He and I must have the same model. - -- Oh. The _Shut Up Little Man_ transcription on one of Eddies links somehow reminds me of The Eddie Tews Blowsian Capitalist Repertory Theatre interpretation of _Waiting for Godoh_, but with all this deep heady stuff one can sometimes miss the deepest mine shafts of enlightenment while stumbling around in the dark looking for the outhouse of intellectual stimulation. Eddie, did I even get close? The "Cliff's Notes" on SULM was all sold out, so I don't know. Happy Friday! - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 08:30:48 +0000 From: Eleanore Adams Subject: Re: to the white sea, various Soft Boy updates J Branscombe wrote: > Miles Goosens wrote > > >Heart Of Darkness is the best thing Conrad ever wrote. A double Whoa Tiger! I have to say that Nostromo and Lord Jim are the best of Joseph Conrad. I did my final project for college on JC, and specialized in him the first year of grad school (before dropping out to switch to law) > Whoa Tiger! The most famous certainly, but only due to the Coppola > connection.(Does anyone know if it's true that Brando didn't read it before > filming?) I probably agree that Apocalypse now is better than its source > > I believe that is correct. He just frew in, rambled what he "felt" and flew out, for a million a day. She the documentary by Eleanor Coppola called Hearts of Darkness. Eleanore ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:43:40 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: to the white sea, various Soft Boy updates On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, J Branscombe wrote: > Talking of literary giants, no sooner do I start mouthing off about Malcolm > Lowry than Eb announces a new Robyn song called Time Will Destroy You Like > A Mexican God. Lowry's Under The Volcano, set in the foothills of > Popocatepetl (which is also mentioned in a Momus number, fact fans) is > stuffed with Central American religious mythology. syncronicity! i'd never heard of it before last night, but Under The Volcano plays a small part in the beautiful dream-comic The Book Of Jim, which i borrowed from a friend. it's -- well, i know how dangerous it is to claim there'd be a correlation between liking robyn and liking something else, but it engages the same part of my mind as some of robyn's more serious image-based lyrics. i am now curious whether the song is about time destroying you as it destroys mexican gods, or time destroying you as a mexican god would. a ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:50:39 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: the boy who talked to homing beacons On Fri, 2 Apr 1999, Eb wrote: > Hideous pretentiousness. Hideous padding of their albums, to make them seem > "important" (talk about CD-length issues -- is there ANY album more padded > than Aenima?) is Aenima the one with the Neubauten ripoff that turns out to be a recipe for "Satan's Omelet"? that was a pretty good joke the one time i heard it. a ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #121 *******************************