From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #92 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, March 11 1999 Volume 08 : Number 092 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Hyperboles and black-eyed dogs [Natalie Jacobs ] Re: Brighten my northern goddamn sky [Stephen Buckalew ] Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: 100% proggie content [Miles Goosens ] Re: 100% proggie content ["Paul Christian Glenn" ] Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. ["Paul Christian Glenn" ] Re: beatific cri de coeur [Miles Goosens ] Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. [Eb ] Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. ["Paul Christian Glenn" ] Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. ["sporty chad" ] Re: 100% Pink Floyd content [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. ["JH3" ] Re: Elliot Smith [Gregory Stuart Shell ] you want consolidation? I'll show you consolidation.... [Eb ] Re: you want consolidation? I'll show you consolidation.... [lj lindhurst] Re: you want consolidation? I'll show you consolidation.... [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:21:56 -0500 From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: Hyperboles and black-eyed dogs >> >I've only just heard my first ND while watching the BBC's documentary >> >'A Stranger Among Us'. A beautiful talent, but the man was not well. >> >> Well, people who commit suicide usually aren't... > >Actually, it's not really known if his overdose was accidental or intentional >Although the man's state would lead you think it was intentional, it can't >truly be said that he meant to kill himself. In the absence of a suicide note, no. But after extremely over-zealous perusal of the Drake bio, it seems pretty clear (at least to me) that it was intentional. (I can back up this conclusion at some length, but I don't want to bore anyone.) Of course, it really doesn't matter that much in the long run - dead is dead, after all; it makes no difference how you got that way. >"Far superior to 'All You Need Is Love', >'Tender' is a mantra, a beatific cri de coeur, and the best British >single since 'A Design For Life'". Heh - this reminds me of the rapturous British reviews that greeted the first Suede album - which one reviewer described as "the final fracture of a chrysalis, a lover's leap." I'm not making this up. n. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:21:50 -0500 From: Stephen Buckalew Subject: Re: Brighten my northern goddamn sky >>- --er, he utters the line, "ah, stand beck, dennis!" on STAND BACK, >>DENNIS!, but i can't remember which song! yikes! >Oooh... I think it's during the guitar solo in "I'm Only You," but I lent >my copy to an Ann Arbor Chalkhillian in an attempt to convert him to the >Dark Side of the Force, so I can't go and check. I'm pretty sure that he said this before the guitar solo on "Ugly Nora" from the living room recordings that are on the Soft Boys Compilation album (and elsewhere probably). He plays a short solo and then says "Now lets try it with the fork..." before playing the second half of the solo. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 20:32:23 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V8 #91 On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:48:04 -0500 (EST), you wrote: Look, what IS prog? The doors did some things that were prog "celebration of the lizard" early (syd and pre-darkside) floyd was prog "echoes" prog was cool before it became formulaic, like disco, or punk. was zappa prog? Ok if tolken references makes one prog, was zepplin? now, Eno have always been relevent , so has crimson, but what about the prog from the old country? Can, kraftwerk, amon dul,tangerine dream( before they decided to compete against yanni)? this isn't luther, it's his doppelganger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:50:15 EST From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Elliot Smith In a message dated 99-03-10 20:48:40 EST, you write: << We watched No.2, followed by Elliot Smith. Smith said the drummer, who also played with No.2, was from Sleater-Kinney, and the bass player he was using is also from S-K. >> Why did he say that? Or are you just joking around? In case you're not, Sleater-Kinney is all-chick band and doesn't have a bass player (2-guitar and drums). Strange, too, about No. 2. When I saw them here in Portland, they had a female bass player/back-up vocalist. Sounds confused/confusing. - -------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:57:12 +0000 From: "sporty chad" Subject: Re: More prog rock! Just what you wanted! > Anyone interested in Prog rock should check out the following site: > > http://www.progrock.net/ > > You can find oodles of information here. I went there, and found that XTC and Radiohead aren't considered prog. Pink Floyd, Syd Barrett, Adrian Belew, Jethro Tull, Captain Beefheart, Procol Harum and Kraftwerk are. I think I get it now -- if your classical influence is Stravinsky, and your synth is analogue, you're prog. If your classical influence is Prokofiev and you've got a sampling synth, you're not. No wait, Belew uses MIDI and samples in "The Guitar as Orchestra". I'm more confused than ever. - -- Chadbury ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:02:29 EST From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. I'm being totally serious when I ask, "There's an alt.music.fegmania?!" I mean, I guess it makes sense that there would be. But, in the 16 months or so that I've been on this list, I don't think anyone's ever mentioned it! Um, yeah, I guess it's safe to say that this is where all the action is :-) - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:02:46 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: 100% proggie content At 10:02 PM 3/10/99 -0800, Eb wrote: >Well, the thing is that Pink Floyd's position in "prog rock" is highly >debatable -- the jury is split right down the middle on that one. I've been >on the fence for years, but since observing more of the "prog community" >online, I'm starting to place Pink Floyd outside of prog. Nowadays, I think >of them more as a '60s psychedelic-rock band who matured into a stoner >FM-rock staple. If you look at the rec.music.progressive and >alt.fan.pink-floyd newsgroups, the difference in posts is startlingly >obvious. The rec.music.progressive folks have the typical overeducated, >pop-music-sucks, self-congratulatory arrogance of the diehard proggie, >while the a.m.p.f. folks are a bunch of immature, drunken, pot-riddled >airheads trading giggles and nerd jokes. Just the sort of dorks you see >waving lighters at arenas and showing off their neatly ironed tour shirts. >Clearly, there's a difference between the prog audience and Pink Floyd's. Um, so the group is defined by its audience rather than by its music? I have a lot of trouble with that notion. Think of the legions of Morrissey fans who take every word on his albums seriously, even though the Mozzer himself hasn't since at least 1986 (if not earlier). I guess that also makes "Every Breath You Take," "The One I Love," "Under the Milky Way," and "Something I Can Never Have" tender love ballads, just because millions of people believe they are... Actually, I think the Floyd debate points more to the ultimate vapidity of labelling than to any other meaningful conclusion. Perhaps the jury is split because Pink Floyd's music doesn't really fit any of these categories' archetypes. >As time goes by, I think Pink Floyd becomes less and less a peer of Genesis >and Yes, and more a peer of, well, I dunno, the melodic long-hair rock you >heard on FM album radio during the genre's '70s glory days. But to play the game you were playing in the first paragraph, where the a.m.p.f. regulars are "a bunch of immature, drunken, pot-riddled airheads," the Pink Floyd collection of these folks -- and the Floyd that was regularly heard on FM -- probably consists entirely of THE WALL and DARK SIDE OF THE MOON. Maybe some of them have ventured to WISH YOU WERE HERE. (The rec.music.progressive group's disdain for Floyd probably also stems from associating "Money" and "Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2" with the unwashed stoner throngs.) UMMAGUMMA and MEDDLE probably lie completely outside of their experience, much less the Syd-era albums. If you take the reductive, audience-driven view of Floyd, you may be right. But I have a hard time consigning them to Foghat World if I take into account the band's complete catalog. later, Mali ================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website, now with sound! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal page, all silent all the time: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles Join the Wire Mailing List: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/wire ================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:14:50 -0600 From: "Paul Christian Glenn" Subject: Re: 100% proggie content >Think of the legions of Morrissey >fans who take every word on his albums seriously, even though the Mozzer >himself hasn't since at least 1986 Mmmmmmmmmm...Morrissey... Paul Christian Glenn | "Besides being complicated, trance@radiks.net | reality, in my experience, is http://x-real.firinn.org | usually odd." - C.S. Lewis Now Reading: "The Robots of Dawn" by Isaac Asimov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:15:51 -0600 From: "Paul Christian Glenn" Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. > I'm being totally serious when I ask, "There's an alt.music.fegmania?!" >I mean, I guess it makes sense that there would be. But, in the 16 months or >so that I've been on this list, I don't think anyone's ever mentioned it! Yup, I heard about at the same place I heard about this list - Positive Vibrations. >yeah, I guess it's safe to say that this is where all the action is :-) So I've gathered. :) Paul Christian Glenn | "Besides being complicated, trance@radiks.net | reality, in my experience, is http://x-real.firinn.org | usually odd." - C.S. Lewis Now Reading: "The Robots of Dawn" by Isaac Asimov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:15:36 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: beatific cri de coeur At 12:28 PM 3/11/99 -0600, amadain wrote: > >>astounded by the quote: "Far superior to 'All You Need Is Love', >>'Tender' is a mantra, a beatific cri de coeur, and the best British >>single since 'A Design For Life'". For Tomorrow is even better than >>Waterloo Sunset! > >Oh fer chrissakes. > >Get back to us in a years' time and see if you still think so. Especially >if the album doesn't sell well. Ah, the British Music Press. Sad that they should tar "For Tomorrow" with a "Waterloo Sunset" comparison, because it's a fine song. In fact, I'd say that the best Blur album is easily the one on which "For Tomorrow" resides, MODERN LIFE IS RUBBISH, which suffers neither from the over-derivativeness (izzat a word?) of PARKLIFE (albeit loving derivativeness) nor from the spottiness of THE GREAT ESCAPE and BLUR. I too would consign most of LEISURE to the baggy-pants dustbin of music history. In fact, I skipped MODERN LIFE when it came out because I thought it'd be just another ride on the ol' Inspiral Carpet. I didn't become a fan until I heard "Girls and Boys" leading off an episode of 120 MINUTES -- when the song started, I looked at the TV and thought "wha, didn't the VJ say that this was Blur? But I LIKE THIS, it can't be?" And I haven't heard _13_ yet. "Tender" didn't do much for me, tho. later, Mali ================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website, now with sound! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal page, all silent all the time: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles Join the Wire Mailing List: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/wire ================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:19:41 -0800 From: Eb Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. > I'm being totally serious when I ask, "There's an alt.music.fegmania?!" >I mean, I guess it makes sense that there would be. But, in the 16 months or >so that I've been on this list, I don't think anyone's ever mentioned it! Yes, there is. I just checked there -- I'm now going to forward EVERY SINGLE ALT.MUSIC.FEGMANIA POST to the Feglist. Sit back, this could take awhile.... > From: quinnah@earthlink.net (Jeffrey Dreves) > Newsgroups: alt.music.fegmania > Subject: hi! > Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 21:45:48 GMT > > What's fegmania? Ehh, maybe it didn't take as long as I thought it would. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:28:29 -0600 From: "Paul Christian Glenn" Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. >> What's fegmania? > >Ehh, maybe it didn't take as long as I thought it would. :) I mailed this guy and explained to him about Hitchcock. Oddly enough, he responded by saying that he already knew about RH and the fegMANIA! album, but it had "slipped his mind" when he posted this. Weird. Words like fegMANIA and music like Hitchcock's tend to stick in my mind.... :P Paul Christian Glenn | "Besides being complicated, trance@radiks.net | reality, in my experience, is http://x-real.firinn.org | usually odd." - C.S. Lewis Now Reading: "The Robots of Dawn" by Isaac Asimov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:39:19 +0000 From: "sporty chad" Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Date sent: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:02:29 EST To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. Send reply to: MARKEEFE@aol.com > I'm being totally serious when I ask, "There's an alt.music.fegmania?!" > I mean, I guess it makes sense that there would be. But, in the 16 months or > so that I've been on this list, I don't think anyone's ever mentioned it! Um, > yeah, I guess it's safe to say that this is where all the action is :-) > > ------Michael K. I've been there a few times. When you don't get the "empty newsgroup" message, it's almost always because there's spam waiting for you there. I do check every now and then to see if there's someone I can direct to this list; that's happened maybe half a dozen times in the last year, tops. - -- Chadbury ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:42:34 EST From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: 100% Pink Floyd content In a message dated 99-03-11 08:51:45 EST, you write: << But how many hit singles did PF have during their 70's glory days? The only ones I can think of are "Money" and "Another Brick In The Wall". Their 4 albums between "DSOTM" and "The Wall" were all definite album long pieces, although individual tracks from all but "Animals" could be played as radio friendly tunes. I don't think they intended to create mainstream radio hits, though their popularity forced DJ's to play certain selections. Look at how uneven and pointless the "A Collection Of Great Songs" compilation is. As William Ruhlmann says (ok I'm quoting a rock critic... kill me damn it KILL ME!!! ;] ) PF are "arguably the quintessential album band." >> Yeah, only two singles that charted during the 70's: "Money" at #13 on the U.S. charts and "ABitW" at #1 in both the U.S. and the U.K. Yeah, definitely an "album band" (and one of the finest, at that!). - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:55:54 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. >I'm being totally serious when I ask, "There's an alt.music.fegmania?!" >I mean, I guess it makes sense that there would be. But, in the 16 months or >so that I've been on this list, I don't think anyone's ever mentioned it! I think the problem is that a lot of Usenet servers don't list it - I have access to two of them, and only one of them lists it, and I'm pretty sure *they* didn't three months ago. I don't know much about how Usenet works (thank gawd) so I don't know why it only appears on some servers and not others. (I don't think Deja News even lists it.) John H. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 15:55:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Gregory Stuart Shell Subject: Re: Elliot Smith On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 MARKEEFE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 99-03-10 20:48:40 EST, you write: > > << We watched No.2, followed by > Elliot Smith. Smith said the drummer, who also played with No.2, was > from Sleater-Kinney, and the bass player he was using is also from > S-K. >> > > Why did he say that? Or are you just joking around? In case you're Interesting. I thought I heard that S-K was all female, as I have never seen them, so after I heard Smith say the drummer and bass player he was using were both from S-K, I asked the guy next to me and he confirmed that is what he heard Smith say. Maybe Smith meant, 'they will be playing here on Wed., opening for S-K' or something, but that is definitely not how it sounded. The bass player for No.2, was a female, but the drummer they had, Tuesday night at 'The Trees' in Dallas, was the same drummer Smith used. He looked like a young Peter Buck and he wore an old Snoopy print t-shirt. Hope this helps to figure it all out. Regards, Gregory S. Shell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:55:20 -0800 From: Eb Subject: you want consolidation? I'll show you consolidation.... [posters' names deleted, to protect the innocent] >Thought you may be interested to hear of the typical UK "this is better >than the Beatles" reviews 13 seems to be getting over here. I picked up >MM & NME yesterday, which I haven't done in a *long* while, and was >astounded by the quote: "Far superior to 'All You Need Is Love', >'Tender' is a mantra, a beatific cri de coeur, and the best British >single since 'A Design For Life'". I'm completely unable to understand how anyone could rave about "Tender." It's a pallid bore. No WAY it will be a hit on American radio. Now, on the other hand, I was utterly ADDICTED to "Girls and Boys" when it was new. Wheee! I don't recall "For Tomorrow" -- I should pull out the disc and give that another spin. >Eb, I'd be interested in your thoughts of the new Suede and Catatonia >albums when you get to hear them. >I would venture to guess that he won't like Suede for the same reasons >he doesn't go overmuch for Pulp. 'Neo-Bowie posturing', I believe he >calls it. ;) Yeah, that's the ticket. I manage to dismiss a LOT of new UK bands that way. Bowie, good. His influence in the '90s, bad (usually). I've heard a few Suede albums -- NOT the ever-heralded debut, however. None of them really grabbed me, but I will admit that I haven't had the stomach to put Sci-Fi Lullabies up for sale yet -- there were a few pretty songs on there, and I want to give it another listen someday. But still, it's all one schtick, and too contrived and too monotonous for me to take seriously. I heard the first Catatonia album. Not too bad. Interesting, charismatic, post-Bjork singer. However, I didn't think the songs were anything noteworthy. That disc has left the building. >Look, what IS prog? >The doors did some things that were prog "celebration of the lizard" Just because a song is long, doesn't mean it's prog. >I think I'm still a proggie, but most >of the prog bands have stopped moving forward. It's just Crimso >now, whose releases to which I look forward. Right! I wish I had saved a post I made to Elephant Talk ages ago, in which I proved quite handily (or so I think ;)) that King Crimson is the only active prog band of any relevance today. I had about six specific reasons listed...I can't remember them all. Something about having a major-label contract, having crossover fans of various musical persuasions that AREN'T purely genre zealots, being able to consistently reinvent their sound, having fans always interested in hearing new music at concerts rather than just old favorites...dang, I wish I could remember the rest. It was good stuff. ;) >But how many hit singles did PF have during their 70's glory days? The only >ones I can think of are "Money" and "Another Brick In The Wall". They weren't really top 40 "hits," but there sure are a lot more Pink Floyd songs than that in regular classic-rock rotation. "Have a Cigar," "Comfortably Numb," "Time," "Brain Damage," "Pigs (Three Different Ones)," "Run Like Hell," "Young Lust".... >Um, so the group is defined by its audience rather than by its music? I >have a lot of trouble with that notion. No, I also discussed the lack of show-off virtuosity in Pink Floyd's music, the long-haired album-rock sound, the more common ground with the FM mainstream over other prog bands...but yes, I think the general appeal to "stoners" rather than "intellectuals" says something significant about the qualitative difference between Floyd and prog. >a.m.p.f. regulars are "a bunch of immature, drunken, pot-riddled airheads," >the Pink Floyd collection of these folks -- and the Floyd that was >regularly heard on FM -- probably consists entirely of THE WALL and DARK >SIDE OF THE MOON. Maybe some of them have ventured to WISH YOU WERE HERE. >UMMAGUMMA and MEDDLE probably lie completely >outside of their experience, much less the Syd-era albums. No, that's not true at all, actually. If you look at alt.music.pink-floyd, ALL the Floyd albums get discussed at some time or other, amidst the staggering onslaught of "Hey, I'm stoned right now -- here's my cutesy one-line response to your cutesy one-line response!" posts. In particular, Syd Barrett talk is QUITE common. Eb, who just found out Beulah will play in LA at the end of April...woo! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 16:55:51 -0500 From: Ben Subject: Re: More prog rock! Just what you wanted! The Great Quail wrote: > Well, ya'll know I am a pretty sizeable Prog rock fan, and I have to say > that I agree with, like, 99% of Eb's Big Post on the subject -- *very* > well stated, Eb. At the risk of sounding mushy or whatnot, you are one of > the List's biggest assets, and though *what* you say may be up for > disagreement, the *way* you word things is always very impressive. Phoooey! ;) > You > have all the ways of a good critic -- to get to the nut of something with > words, images, metaphors that sound perfect; to draw new connections, to > highlight things that might have remained nebulous. . . . > > All right, enough praise for Eb, before he asks me out on a date. On to > the letter at hand: > > Yes, King Crimson really is the only band from that era that escaped with > their dignity intact; good Lord I even hate to *look* at the Moddies or > ELP. Genesis is not what they were, and Yes fragmented far too much into > a Jekyll/Hyde thing. (Though I do have a fondness for any Yes that does > NOT have Rabin in it, including ABW&H. I think Trevor Rabin is the > Antichrist. No, I really mean it. He is.) And some groups, like Van der > Graaf Generator and Eloy just sort of vanished. . . . > > But we shouldn't overlook the many wonderful mutations and bastard sons > of Prog. Perhaps in its pure form it's pretty dead -- early Marillion was > the last hurrah, in my book -- but I like to think that I can enjoy > certain music knowing in my heart that without Prog, it wouldn't be the > same -- late Radiohead; the recent work of Peter Gabriel and Brian Eno; > Tori Amos, even Primus. . . . and Phish. > > Yes, this whole post is really a Phish-head's attempt to sneak another > bit of evangelizing on the List. I know that most folks think of Phish as > the "new Grateful Dead," but that is an oversimplification. There is > really a lot of the ol' prog aesthetic in their music, especially the > early stuff (Junta, Pictures of Nectar, and Rift.) In fact, the person > who got me into Phish was NOT a deadhead, but a Proggie, who saw Junta as > more Yes-like than Deadish. (And I still think there's a lot of Zappa in > there as well.) I always felt the same thing about Phish. They are a lot more "Hot Rats" era Frank Zappa, musically and especially lyrically. Probably why I don't like them as much as I should. ;) What's this? I notice small objects, such as ornaments, oscillating. I notice a vibration in my diaphragm. I hear a distant hissing in my ears. I feel dizzy. I feel the need to vomit. There's bleeding from orifices, an ache in the pelvic region. Haha!!! Arrrghhh!!!! The Great Quail has initiated a Sonic Attack on me!!!! I can help no one else... no one else... no one else. Oh wait, it's just the overactive subwoofers of my neighbor. Never mind. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:08:20 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: alt.music.fegmania, etc. On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, JH3 wrote: > I think the problem is that a lot of Usenet servers don't list it - I have > access to two of them, and only one of them lists it, and I'm pretty sure > *they* didn't three months ago. I don't know much about how Usenet works > (thank gawd) so I don't know why it only appears on some servers and not > others. (I don't think Deja News even lists it.) Well, I've recently become the news admin here. Painful, huh? And I don't rightly know, either. Different news servers accept or deny different groups based on different sets of criteria. It's all different. Different. (wait wait... one more time...) Different. Partly could be because of the low traffic, it gets regularly dropped from news servers. Partly could be because it's an alt group and many people will accept cancel or deletegroup messages from ANYONE regarding alt groups. Could be the opposite reason: the issuer of a newgroup to some news server may not match some rigidly defined parameter for the alt.music hierarchy. There's a thousand reasons. I think this is a little weird myself. But I've noticed that alt.music.fegmania pops up more often now than it did a few years ago. Hmm... maybe I'll look into it. but mostly, I'd say news admins don't care what alt groups they're carrying until their users complain. I know I don't add any groups that don't automatically generate unless I get a big user complaint. (Don't tell, but I even delete the failed and unparseable checkgroups stuff without even reading why it failed. Shhhh.) J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:17:10 -0500 From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: you want consolidation? I'll show you consolidation.... >No, that's not true at all, actually. If you look at alt.music.pink-floyd, >ALL the Floyd albums get discussed at some time or other, amidst the >staggering onslaught of "Hey, I'm stoned right now -- here's my cutesy >one-line response to your cutesy one-line response!" posts. In particular, >Syd Barrett talk is QUITE common. hang on a second-- that sounds like a description of THIS list! oh no, did I just give a cutesy one-line response? (duh, I guess this makes it a cutesy two line response...)(oh, now the line wrapped and I'm so confused!!) lj ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 14:20:43 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: you want consolidation? I'll show you consolidation.... On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, lj lindhurst wrote: > oh no, did I just give a cutesy one-line response? (duh, I guess this > makes it a cutesy two line response...)(oh, now the line wrapped and I'm so > confused!!) Yes, but only because you are stoned. J. - -- ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 17:17:56 -0500 From: Ben Subject: Welcome to the machine How did others get into the mighty Floyd? I didn't get into them until a friend started arriving to school every day with the cassette "A Nice Pair". I already had "The Wall" but I really didn't like it too much, I had only listened to it maybe twice. But instead of the early, weird Floyd, I felt I HAD to get Dark Side of the Moon. So that was the one that hooked me. However I them immediately got just about all their other albums and was definitely blown away by the more "difficult" material. And this was sooo long ago, the CD's came in long boxes! ;) Miles Goosens wrote: > At 10:02 PM 3/10/99 -0800, Eb wrote: > >Well, the thing is that Pink Floyd's position in "prog rock" is highly > >debatable -- the jury is split right down the middle on that one. I've been > >on the fence for years, but since observing more of the "prog community" > >online, I'm starting to place Pink Floyd outside of prog. Nowadays, I think > >of them more as a '60s psychedelic-rock band who matured into a stoner > >FM-rock staple. If you look at the rec.music.progressive and > >alt.fan.pink-floyd newsgroups, the difference in posts is startlingly > >obvious. The rec.music.progressive folks have the typical overeducated, > >pop-music-sucks, self-congratulatory arrogance of the diehard proggie, > >while the a.m.p.f. folks are a bunch of immature, drunken, pot-riddled > >airheads trading giggles and nerd jokes. Just the sort of dorks you see > >waving lighters at arenas and showing off their neatly ironed tour shirts. > >Clearly, there's a difference between the prog audience and Pink Floyd's. > > Um, so the group is defined by its audience rather than by its music? I > have a lot of trouble with that notion. Think of the legions of Morrissey > fans who take every word on his albums seriously, even though the Mozzer > himself hasn't since at least 1986 (if not earlier). I guess that also > makes "Every Breath You Take," "The One I Love," "Under the Milky Way," and > "Something I Can Never Have" tender love ballads, just because millions of > people believe they are... > > Actually, I think the Floyd debate points more to the ultimate vapidity of > labelling than to any other meaningful conclusion. Perhaps the jury is > split because Pink Floyd's music doesn't really fit any of these > categories' archetypes. > > >As time goes by, I think Pink Floyd becomes less and less a peer of Genesis > >and Yes, and more a peer of, well, I dunno, the melodic long-hair rock you > >heard on FM album radio during the genre's '70s glory days. > > But to play the game you were playing in the first paragraph, where the > a.m.p.f. regulars are "a bunch of immature, drunken, pot-riddled airheads," > the Pink Floyd collection of these folks -- and the Floyd that was > regularly heard on FM -- probably consists entirely of THE WALL and DARK > SIDE OF THE MOON. Maybe some of them have ventured to WISH YOU WERE HERE. > (The rec.music.progressive group's disdain for Floyd probably also stems > from associating "Money" and "Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2" with the > unwashed stoner throngs.) UMMAGUMMA and MEDDLE probably lie completely > outside of their experience, much less the Syd-era albums. If you take the > reductive, audience-driven view of Floyd, you may be right. But I have a > hard time consigning them to Foghat World if I take into account the band's > complete catalog. > > later, > > Mali > > ================================================== > Miles Goosens > > R. Stevie Moore website, now with sound! > http://www.rsteviemoore.com > > My personal page, all silent all the time: > http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles > > Join the Wire Mailing List: > http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/wire > ================================================== ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #92 ******************************