From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V8 #42 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, February 8 1999 Volume 08 : Number 042 Today's Subjects: ----------------- A mollusk speaks [The Great Quail ] Where's Marion? [Griffith Davies ] A mollusk PS [The Great Quail ] Banjo! [Natalie Jacobs ] Internet navigation [Terrence M Marks ] Re: Banjo! [Joel Mullins ] Re: Banjo! [Capuchin ] Re: Internet navigation [amadain ] Re: Banjo! ["E. Pluribus Uber" ] Re: A mollusk Proposal [Bayard ] tomatoes and radio wires ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: Banjo! [Joel Mullins ] Re: Banjo! [Capuchin ] currently snowing in the jet city ["Capitalism Blows" ] you gotta love these guys! ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: you gotta love these guys! [Capuchin ] Re: you gotta love these guys! ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: you gotta love these guys! [Capuchin ] Re: you gotta love these guys! [VIV LYON ] PS re: these guys we are being urged to love [VIV LYON ] Re: you gotta love these guys! [Capuchin ] Links-a-go-go [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Feb 99 12:13:24 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: A mollusk speaks >Besides, the surreal posse appears to be more or less dead, so much of the >interest inthe list has gone for me , I mean, now even the Quail can't finish >his stories Dave . . . First of all, welcome back, and please stay! For all of you Fegs out there, the Quail would LOVE to finish his stories, but the Quail's life has been very very very hectic lately and he really doesn't have time to post virtually anything to the Feg List, which actually makes him sad. . . . Please understand, you are all my friends in a very real sense, but this last month has seen a lot of job anxiety, a very weird holiday, a trip to Amsterdam, job anxiety, a birthday celebration, occasional bouts with the flu, job anxiety, and the creation of a whole new Web site that I designed for my Libyrinth project. Oh yeah, and did I mention job anxiety? I, for one, love the Feg List to death -- it is one very bright cheerful spot in my life, and it has brought me a wealth of friends with diversity ranging from Eb to Dave Lang, from Bayard to Roger Jackson. It has also brought me one LJ Lindhurst, who is the center of my life's happiness. But I also have to say -- and I say this for many of you who have privately wondered where I've been -- like everyone, even Eb, we all go through cycles of hecticness (Hect? perhaps?) and productivity, activity and dormancy. To be honest, I have not had any time to finish my "Fegmas Carol" tale . . . not only does each "installment" take many hours to write (Heh heh -- believe it or not!) but I figured a few weeks after New Year's, who really cared anymore? (By the way, Natalie was the Ghost of Fegmas Past, Bayard Present, and Capuchin Future. . . . ) (And actually, I would still love to finish it one of these days!)(Maybe for Saint Patrick's Day) And as for the "Surreeal Posse," I don't really think it exists, so it can't be active or inactive. Rather I see it as a free-floating state of being that descends on occasional postings and replies, whether the sender intended to be deputized or not. So, oh, yes. Oh, yes, the Sureeal Posse is still there, ladies and gentleman. We have seen the Posse and the Posse is us. So I hope this will stand as something between an apology and a defense - -- things have been very busy and very stressful, but reading my Fegmail, even if I don't have the time to really wade in and participate much right now, is one of those little things that (um, paradoxically?) keeps me sane. ESPECIALLY reading Dave and Jon's always sanity-producing letters. . . . - --Quailie PS: That new site I was creating is another Joyce site, and deals exclusively with music. I would never ever plug a site of my own so shamelessly, so I will not mention that the URL is Please don't drop by and certainly don't offer me any comments, suggestions, or candy. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The Great Quail, Keeper of the Libyrinth: http://www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth "Countlessness of livestories have netherfallen by this plage, flick as flowflakes, litters from aloft, like a waast wizzard all of whirlworlds. Now are all tombed to the mound, isges to isges, erde from erde . . . (Stoop) if you are abcedminded, to this claybook, what curious of signs (please stoop) in this allaphbed! Can you rede (since We and Thou had it out already) its world? . . . Speak to us of Emailia!" --James Joyce, Finnegans Wake ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 09:35:00 -0800 (PST) From: Griffith Davies Subject: Where's Marion? Eb asked where I had spotted Marion Ross. At first I thought that I would just reply to Eb, but I'ved decided to share the boring location with the group. I saw Marion Ross (and several of her friends) in an Italian restaurant, San Remo, in Van Nuys on Saturday night. My boring life has been revealed for all to see.... griffith np - "Sometimes God Smiles: The Young Persons Guide to Discipline Volume 2" given to me by my proggy/fusion enthusiast friend. ps - I forgot to mention that a few weeks ago that I saw the one and only (thank god) Corey Feldman at an Encino restaurant, Bucca di Beppo. The restaurant is incredible. However, it has the horrible distinction of being the restaurant that Phil Hartman's wife ate at before she killed him and herself. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 99 12:38:46 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: A mollusk PS PS: That was Eddie, by the way, not Bayard Kratchitt, who was to be the Ghost of Fegmas Present. . . . ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 13:10:20 -0500 From: Natalie Jacobs Subject: Banjo! >Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:15:42 -0800 >From: Eb >Subject: Scariest thing I've seen on the Web lately > >http://enigma.adsl.net.cmu.edu/~ad3q/pictures/jim.jpg No, this is scarier, trust me: http://www.algonet.se/~giljotin/explan.html Sort of Robynesque, though, in a very bizarre, twisted way... maybe he could write a song about this person. >If I'd known you were going to see him I'd have got you to ask whether he >ever listened to my tape (probably once, then taped over, but never mind). I'm afraid there wasn't much opportunity for conversation, because a) I was completely starstruck and b) there were about a hundred people behind me in line. But next time I'll be sure to pass the message along. :) >> XTC To Appear On Space Ghost > >Yes! Andy Partridge vs. Moltar? My money's on Andy! Yeah! Ever since Space Ghost started, I thought Andy would be a great guest. I'm going to be spending months now coming up with likely Partridgean replies to "Do you like my pants?" Oh, and last night I saw XTC on VH-1's "Where Are They Now" - I guess they have now officially been relegated to the status of has-beens. The segment was uninformative, Andy made very little sense, and Colin, as usual, was mute. Well, what can you expect... > While researching I found that the Kinks have actually >written more songs about toast than Hitchcock has, but unfortunately >one morning I put butter on the report and ate it by mistaked. I >don't mind on account of never having much liked the Kinks anyway. You know, Tracy, I think I joined the list after you had already left. I realize now what I was missing. >Related question: Is there a computer-games software company called "EB"? There's an Eddie Bauer line of outerwear called "EBTEK." Every time I see it on someone's coat, I start giggling. n. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:02:39 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Internet navigation I'm wondering what sort of tools and devices you-all use to find out about new web sites, apart from recommendations from friends and standard links. And I think that the Travels of Sir John Mandeville ought to be on the feg readlist. It's....well, a medieval travelogue of Asia that's quite accurate in regards to most areas, and then goes on to include a great deal of information about places that don't exist. He's got a very good understanding of Muslim theology, especially considering the time and place he's writing from (14th C. England), and a lot of what he writes about China or the assassins seems reasonable, but he's also got a lot of material about giants, dwarfs, griffons, Prester Jon, and various other things that don't quite fit into a standard-issue map. The accepted explanation was that he actually did travel to those countries, but he (or those who copied his manuscripts) also interpolated a number of other, less reliable sources. It's rather perplexing. Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 12:55:55 -0800 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: Banjo! > No, this is scarier, trust me: http://www.algonet.se/~giljotin/explan.html > > Sort of Robynesque, though, in a very bizarre, twisted way... maybe he > could write a song about this person. The scariest thing to me about that website was the following sentence: "The question I know most people would like to know, why and what it is about Guillotines that makes me to LOVE them. I'll try to explain it here, and make analyzes." I can't stand reading stuff like this. I'm an English major, by the way. Later Joel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:20:09 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Banjo! On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > > No, this is scarier, trust me: http://www.algonet.se/~giljotin/explan.html > > Sort of Robynesque, though, in a very bizarre, twisted way... maybe he > > could write a song about this person. > The scariest thing to me about that website was the following sentence: > "The question I know most people would like to know, why and what it is > about Guillotines that > makes me to LOVE them. I'll try to explain it here, and make analyzes." > I can't stand reading stuff like this. I'm an English major, by the > way. I'd like to see you do better in Swedish, her native tongue. The thing that disturbs me most about this site is... well, all of it. I don't think it's odd that someone digs the guillotine. It's a pretty fucked up old machine, but it's kinda weird and cool if you're all goth and stuff. But engaged to an inanimate object? This woman has some reality issues. I get truly creeped when I stop to consider whether she's simply chemically loopy or whether she's had some undue influence in her formative years. It sends shivers. Is it pity or is it disgust? Are they really different? Je. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:01:34 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: Internet navigation >I'm wondering what sort of tools and devices you-all use to find out about >new web sites, apart from recommendations from friends and standard links. Well, er, I guess I never thought about it, but it's the same way I get a lot of other information. As The Fixx so sagely opined, "one thing leads to another yeah yeah yeah". I find a page I'm interested in, read their links page, surf around, get to another page, they have a couple links I might be interested in......etc. For music links, try the Ultimate Band List. Basically, you look up an artist and it gives you all the links to webpages related to them. It's not always completely up to date but it's a good starting point. Also, I get a lot of links from usenet groups, tho most of 'em probably wouldn't interest Fegs at large, unless they also count fighting net abuse among their hobbies. Anyone wanna go to a page where they can hear Real Audio of spammers getting prank called, let me know :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 11:39:09 -0800 (PST) From: "E. Pluribus Uber" Subject: Re: Banjo! On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Natalie Jacobs wrote: > Sort of Robynesque, though, in a very bizarre, twisted way... maybe he > could write a song about this person. Either that or she could be a character in David Lynch's next movie. I mean, he's already exhausted that log-fetish idea, right? > >Related question: Is there a computer-games software company called "EB"? > > There's an Eddie Bauer line of outerwear called "EBTEK." Every time I see > it on someone's coat, I start giggling. > I guess he's Eb-iquitous, eh? Cheers! - -Glen- "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to see it, do the other trees make fun of it?" --source unknown )+()+()+()+()+( Glen Uber uberg@sonic.net )+()+()+()+()+( ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:42:24 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re: A mollusk Proposal On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, The Great Quail wrote: > PS: That was Eddie, by the way, not Bayard Kratchitt, who was to be the > Ghost of Fegmas Present. . . . that's BAYRD Kratchitt to you... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 11:56:55 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: tomatoes and radio wires sleater-kinney is below elliot??? sleater-kinney is below *anybody*??? eb, eb, eb, eb, eb. eeeeeeeeeeeb, eb, eb, eb, eb. i've actually only seen them once --despite the fact that they play around town fairly frequently-- and it's really pissing me off. you heard THE HOT ROCK yet, eb? assuming you're not just spewing goofily, why? why must they be reprising their roles? "i think you have me confused with fred flinstone." -- homer simpson (or, even more germane: "i'm going to go over here and beat off the band." -- lawrence welk) WELCOME BACK TRACY AND GLEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! np, IN THE AEROPLANE OVER THE SEA http://leb.net/iac/ "As we often see in US foreign policy, other nations' attempts to defend themselves from US attacks are defined as aggression." --Jake Sexton ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 14:29:13 -0800 From: Joel Mullins Subject: Re: Banjo! Capuchin wrote: > > On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > > > No, this is scarier, trust me: http://www.algonet.se/~giljotin/explan.html > > > Sort of Robynesque, though, in a very bizarre, twisted way... maybe he > > > could write a song about this person. > > The scariest thing to me about that website was the following sentence: > > "The question I know most people would like to know, why and what it is > > about Guillotines that > > makes me to LOVE them. I'll try to explain it here, and make analyzes." > > I can't stand reading stuff like this. I'm an English major, by the > > way. > > I'd like to see you do better in Swedish, her native tongue. I knew someone would say something like that. I was aware that English is not her first language. But that doesn't make it any less annoying to read. - --Joel ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 12:53:40 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Banjo! On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Joel Mullins wrote: > Capuchin wrote: > > I'd like to see you do better in Swedish, her native tongue. > I knew someone would say something like that. I was aware that English > is not her first language. But that doesn't make it any less annoying > to read. And that's absolutely fair. J. PS. [Folder "INBOX" opened with 19,479 messages] -- EEP! ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 13:05:25 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: currently snowing in the jet city oh yeah, that's my fault. sorry about that, dewd. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 14:06:06 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: you gotta love these guys! some of the lovelier "policy recommendations" of the New Mexico Farm And Labor Bureau for 1999: "The child labor provisions of the Fair Labor Standards Act are outmoded and should be modernized. Young people, 10-12 years of age should be able, with parental consent, to do certain kinds of safe work on farms during non-school days and those aged 12 to 13 should be allowed more latitude in working on farms with parental consent." "We oppose legislation that would give animal rights organizations or any public agency the right to establish standards for the raising, handling, feeding, housing, or transportation of livestock, poultry, aquaculture, and fur-bearing animals ... We oppose the legislation which would prohibit or unduly restrict the use of animals in research." "...Many predators such as the grizzly bear and some wolf species are contributing very little tangible benefit to the American people, and the extinction of the dinosaur, brontosaurus, pterodactyl, sabertooth tiger, and countless other species is not hindering the occupation of Earth by the human race, and Therefore we strongly urge that the Endangered Species Act be reworded..." "Be it resolved that all agricultural activities, including cultivation of land for the production of agricultural crops, poultry, productions of eggs, production of milk, production of fruit, or other horticultural crops, grazing or the production of livestock, and spraying and harvesting, be exempt from Right To Know." "We strongly support the rights of those who speak out against homosexuality. We believe ... the hiring of homosexual teachers ... would create an emotional and mental health hazard for children. We also oppose legislation providing for the Gay Bill of Rights." "Chemicals are a necessary tool used today in all phases of agriculture. Field Re-entry Regulations for re-entry into agricultural fields after chemical spraying are imposed beyond what is reasonable. We oppose these regulations." "law enforcement agencies (should) give full protection under the law to NM farmers and ranchers wherein labor unions may come onto private property in an effort to disrupt and to cause a labor strike." "continue working to keep agriculture exempt from workers compensation administration regulations." "We urge repeal of the enacted Collective Bargaining Law." http://leb.net/iac/ "As we often see in US foreign policy, other nations' attempts to defend themselves from US attacks are defined as aggression." --Jake Sexton ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 14:36:24 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: you gotta love these guys! On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Capitalism Blows wrote: > some of the lovelier "policy recommendations" of the New Mexico Farm And > Labor Bureau for 1999: eddie... could you site a source for these? I can't find a single web page containing "New Mexico Farm and Labor Bureau" anywhere. Including the list of groups with active lobbyists in the state of New Mexico at http://web.state.nm.us/LOBBY/ORG.htm So what's up with this? I thought it was POSSIBLY an extremist agriculture group until I ran across this in your post: > "We strongly support the rights of those who speak out against > homosexuality. We believe ... the hiring of homosexual teachers ... > would create an emotional and mental health hazard for children. We also > oppose legislation providing for the Gay Bill of Rights." That seems to me to be so far outside the scope (even further than that awfully worded "Right To Know" paragraph) of the subject at hand that I had to take a closer look. Where did you get this? It seems like it's purposely inflamatory. Je. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 14:57:18 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: you gotta love these guys! i think i see it...yes, it's coming into view... just...over...the...horizon... okay, okay. i shouldn't be slagging people for their piss-poor grammar. especially since i'd made an error myself. it's the New Mexico Farm And *Livestock* Bureau. sorry for any palpitations my slip of the fingers may or may not have caused. all the items i passed on were quoted in cockburn & silverstein's EXCELLENT newsletter, Counterpunch. their (nmf&lb, not Counterpunch) website seems to be under construction. "Our top priority is YOU!" . apparently it's one of the more powerful lobbying organizations in the country. http://leb.net/iac/ "As we often see in US foreign policy, other nations' attempts to defend themselves from US attacks are defined as aggression." --Jake Sexton ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:17:41 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: you gotta love these guys! On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, Capitalism Blows wrote: > > i think i see it...yes, it's coming into view... > just...over...the...horizon... > okay, okay. i shouldn't be slagging people for their piss-poor grammar. > especially since i'd made an error myself. it's the New Mexico Farm And > *Livestock* Bureau. sorry for any palpitations my slip of the fingers > may or may not have caused. Now now... while "site" for "cite" can be considered a typo (by my admittedly fucked-up definition), "Labor" for "Livestock" is rather confusing indeed! > all the items i passed on were quoted in cockburn & silverstein's > EXCELLENT newsletter, Counterpunch. So it's from a biased source... and what do they cite as the source? > their (nmf&lb, not Counterpunch) website seems to be under construction. > "Our top priority is YOU!" > . Yeah... I found this right after I sent my previous post and was going to post and apologize... when I found no content whatsoever. > apparently it's one of the more powerful lobbying organizations in the > country. But I find almost no other reference to the organization. I found a few people who claim to have been on the board of said organization and they seemed somewhat right-wing and agritypes, but nothing so blatantly hateful as what you posted. Don't you think it's the tiniest bit odd that the NMFLB would have a web site with its name in flames? I guess that's just a matter of taste. It just looks altogether too goth to be run by a bunch of fascist redneck hatemongers, don'tcha think? Babbling and wondering... perfectly willing to be wrong again, if duty calls. Je. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:30:59 -0800 (PST) From: VIV LYON Subject: Re: you gotta love these guys! Capuchin criticised Eddie handiwork thusly- > > all the items i passed on were quoted in cockburn & silverstein's > > EXCELLENT newsletter, Counterpunch. > > So it's from a biased source... and what do they cite as the source? All sources are biased. All of them. Some people trust one kind of bias, ie: biased towards monied interests. Some people trust another, ie: biased towards information that normally gets suppressed by the monied interests. But there are no unbiased sources. Not even government documents, not even health records. Just what kind of documents must Eddie produce in order to verfiy to your satisfaciton that this organization exists? Vivien And why do I need to believe so much that it does? Does it bring me happiness to contemplate the existence of people as evil as the ones who believe this shit and as influential as Counterpunch would have us believe? I don't know. Blah blah. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 15:33:44 -0800 (PST) From: VIV LYON Subject: PS re: these guys we are being urged to love You wanna see something that really seems designed to raise some hackles? www.moraldefense.com wow. Send 'em some mean email- I know I did. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 17:47:06 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Jordan: The Musical With King Hussein's passing, I am pleased to announce that my long-pending collaboration with Mr. Gordon Sumner, a musical depicting the life of the late monarch, can now become a reality. The first act ends with the conflicted young Hussein finally putting away his childhood hopes and dreams, accepting the path that Allah has chosen for him, as he belts out "It is my destiny / to the be the King Hussein." Still working on "Don't Stand So Close To Rabin," Miles ================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website, now with sound! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal page, all silent all the time: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles Join the Wire Mailing List: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/wire ================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 16:39:47 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: you gotta love these guys! On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, VIV LYON wrote: > All sources are biased. All of them. Some people trust one kind of > bias, ie: biased towards monied interests. Some people trust another, > ie: biased towards information that normally gets suppressed by the > monied interests. But there are no unbiased sources. Not even > government documents, not even health records. Just what kind of > documents must Eddie produce in order to verfiy to your satisfaciton > that this organization exists? I really want to see a release from the organization that states the exerpts reported (or is that reportedly reported?) in Counterpunch and full context. Preferably this document will contain the names of the individuals on said committee. I think such a document (along with ANY kind of verification that these people MIGHT exist) would do it for me. Doesn't anyone think that a powerful lobbying organization would take a slightly less inflamatory tone? You can't get too far appealing only to the extremists. You have to speak softly and appeal to the moderates if you want any kind of broad support. That's the insidious and deceitful nature of democracy. > Vivien > And why do I need to believe so much that it does? Does it bring me > happiness to contemplate the existence of people as evil as the ones > who believe this shit and as influential as Counterpunch would have us > believe? I don't know. Blah blah. I do wonder about that. I'm all for alternative news sources. I'm into guerilla reporting and shouting to the world those things that the powerful do not want people to hear. That's the way you keep big guys in check. But irresponsible reporting is a mess for any side of a story and publishing an unsubstantiated citation or a fraudulent document is as stupid and dangerous as citing a corporate press release as a source for factual information (which happens all day every day and simply must stop, if you ask me). Je. On the same note, I heard a reporter on television yesterday say that Microsoft's revenue was up because their stock just split. Who writes this shit? A company with the amount of stock and cash-on-hand as Microsoft can control their stock price on a whim. It has nothing whatsoever to do with market performance. Bah. That's news? ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 17:16:54 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Links-a-go-go On Mon, 8 Feb 1999, VIV LYON wrote: > You wanna see something that really seems designed to raise some > hackles? > www.moraldefense.com Personally, I'd rather read . > wow. Send 'em some mean email- I know I did. You can't argue with those objectivists. It's a religion for those guys. They have a very tight logical argument that's based on a very cruel, cold premise. Personally, I think the world they would construct would lead to quick tyranny. But I can't argue with them. The best you can make is an emtional appeal, which, as anyone can tell you, is no argument at all. I may have a sticker on my Xterm that says "MY WORLD IS COLD AND WITHOUT HOPE" (something of an award from my friend Tom for a conversation we had on Romeo & Juliet [yes, it's coming, Viv]), but I personally believe that most people WANT to live in a world with more happy people. Just to share a 100% personal and irrelevant stand: I will fight with most of my strength to stop someone from forcing me to how and when to help other people. I will fight as vigorously for the right to help those I can and share what I have with others. I guess I feel it's the only fair thing. Objectivists are greedy, self-involved pigs. I love that they have the choice to be greedy, self-involved pigs. You'll get further enlightening generations than you will repressing viewpoints. I'm just off on an idealistic rant again (as usual), but I have a few more generalized and unsubstantiated statements left to type. Although eddie and several others will disagree, I think things are better now for more people than they were a hundred years ago. I think more people are coming around to a more open and compassionate point of view. I think it's a very slow process, but we're always going to be moving forward and there's no turning back. If you don't believe that, you're bound to be miserable because you cannot unlearn what has been learned and you cannot ever be in the past again. I think it's a practical, if a bit necessarily myopic, view. Oh... and Tom got the sticker at Unamerican Activities "anarchy's ad agency" . This is one of my favorite things in the world. eddie, your wage=slave t-shirt is on the way. J. Gads... don't think those last two paragraphs are contradictory. I think the status quo is shit and needs some serious subversion on a daily basis. I think we have similar goals, all of us (even the objectivists... even eb [not to call him a Randian]). I think there's such a thing as a Good Idea. I think there's a basis of reason, evident in all rational discourse produced by the world thus far, that we all share. In the end, the better ideas will constantly win out. But you can't force anyone. And everyone must always be allowed to choose any path they like because maybe, just maybe, that path will be better than the ones we've been following for centuries. Every great idea was someone's misbegotten notion. I'm done and hated by all. Bye bye. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V8 #42 ******************************