From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #404 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, October 26 1998 Volume 07 : Number 404 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: from the BBC....(that cat fight you wanted, Eb) [Tom Clark ] "A Day in the Life" flexidisk [Gary Annable ] Re: CD-R or CD-RW: does it matter?? [Tom Clark ] Re: CD-R or CD-RW: does it matter?? [Gary Assassin ] Re: from the BBC....(that cat fight you wanted, Eb) [Gene Hopstetter ] Re: Covenant in DC, 10/27 (no RH content, I'm afraid) [Capuchin ] is that a 2x CD-R in your pocket or... [0% Robyn] [Miles Goosens Subject: Re: from the BBC....(that cat fight you wanted, Eb) Yadda, Yadda, Yadda... So, when did you pee your pants? On 10/26/98 1:14 PM, lj lindhurst wrote: >Susan writes: >>I guess I wouldn't care about them either way if they weren't such a >>fucking juggernaut. Actually I even have that one album, "What's The >>Story?" and enjoyed its recycled Beatle/Glam riffs for awhile, again, in a >>kind of postmodern way like "spot the steal!" and hey, I like the Beatles >>and TRex too. > >Okay, I finally can resist no more, and I will take the bait, although the >Oasis-is-shite argument has really gotten old at this point. > >Susan, I will say the same thing to you that I say to EVERYONE who claims >to hate Oasis because they are just "ripping off the Beatles": Please >point out to me, in specific detail, exactly WHERE on any one of their >albums they are ripping off the Beatles. > >I'm not saying they're NOT, I'm just saying that NO ONE up to this point >has been able to point out a single fucking example! All I have heard is >bitching and generalizing! I am not thoroughly familiar with the structure >and chords of all Beatles songs, and I am not arguing that it's not true-- >I simple have never been shown an example. This is all I ask. Please do >"spot the steals" for me. > >So yeah, it sounds like they are trying to sound like Sgt. Pepper in >places, and yeah, they DO make lyrical references to some Beatles songs >(they also refer to Dylan, but I haven't heard anyone claim that they are >"ripping off" him); they even do a cover of [gasp!] "I Am The Walrus"-- but >can you really substantiate this absurd claim that they are "ripping them >off"? What does that even mean? Maybe they have some similar chord >progressions or something? > >Perhaps I need someone to define "ripping off," because that suggests to >me that they are out-and-out STEALING music from the Beatles. Is this the >case? I am no Beatles expert, but I sure the hell haven't heard any >Beatles songs on any of their albums. And sheesh, don't you expect a >little bit more from the Beatles? John Lennon is probably turning over in >his grave at all of these insulting comparisons! > >Come on, hasn't pretty much all recent pop and rock music been in some way >derivative of or greatly influenced by the foundations the Bealtes laid >down? And the Beach Boys? And Dylan? And the Rolling Stones? Do I need >to trot out that tired old argument again? > >I have the Apples in Stereo album, which is much-favored by snooty >rock-crit types; now if you ask me, that is the biggest Beatles ripoff >album in the world, but they get PRAISED for copying the Beatles. Why is >that? Because they have credible highbrow indie-rock status, and Oasis >just wants to make some fucking money and snort cocaine and fuck some >groupies and be as obnoxious as they want? What does that have to do with >THE MUSIC? > >And even if they are assholes who make derivative music, does that make it >LESS enjoyable? Can't something be derivative AND enjoyable? > >lj > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:14:12 -0800 From: "John B. Jones" Subject: CD-R or CD-RW: does it matter?? hello high tech fegs-- so for $349 i can get a sony CD-R that will record at 4x, read at 8x. for 50 dollars more, i can get a CD-RW (not sure of brand) that will record CD-R 's at 2x and write to CD-RW's at 2x and read at 6x. my ? is: is it worth it? i guess the only thing i would be using the RW capability for is backing up files. i am thanking you, - -john ps. can that sony cd-r write at slower speeds than 4x if i need it to? (for example, my internal cd drive is only a 2x, so i probably would have to record at 1x to do a direct cd to cd copy) is that a standard feature, or a special, added feature?? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 05:13:21 -0600 From: Gary Annable Subject: "A Day in the Life" flexidisk Hi folks, I've just dropped in from the Richard Thompson list. (I think a few of you have dual citizenship on both lists.) I'm culling my music collection, and one of the items slated to be hauled down to my local used music emporium is the flexidisk given away with issue 42 of The Bob magazine. It has RH doing "A Day in the Life" (5/5/91, McCabe's, Santa Monica) plus The Sneetches doing the Byrds' "Lady Friend" and the Meat Puppets' doing Led Zeppelin's "Rock and Roll". It's in excellent condition. Before I let it go for half of what the shop expects to sell it for, is there anybody here who wants to add it to their collection? I don't collect live RH tapes, but I'd be interested in trading for a good audio recording of RH's October 1994 performance at the Spectrum Cabaret in Winnipeg, Canada. (I know a videotape of part of the show exists, but is there audio in fegmanialand?) I'd also be willing to sell the flexidisk, but I'm in Canada, so payment would need to be a money order in Canadian or U.S. dollars. Thanks, Gary ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 15:41:37 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: CD-R or CD-RW: does it matter?? On 10/26/98 3:14 PM, John B. Jones wrote: >so for $349 i can get a sony CD-R that will record at 4x, read at 8x. > >for 50 dollars more, i can get a CD-RW (not sure of brand) that will record >CD-R 's at 2x and write to CD-RW's at 2x and read at 6x. > >my ? is: is it worth it? i guess the only thing i would be using the RW >capability for is backing up files. > I'm thinking of doing the exact same thing. I believe the first generation of CD-RW drives couldn't do CD-R properly, but now they can. You could, of course, back up onto CD-R for about $2 per disc, as opposed to $20 per disc for CD-RW's - but you can use those over and over. I like the RW solution. > >ps. can that sony cd-r write at slower speeds than 4x if i need it to? (for >example, my internal cd drive is only a 2x, so i probably would have to >record at 1x to do a direct cd to cd copy) is that a standard feature, or >a special, added feature?? > Most CD-R software will let you set the record speed. This may or may not be an issue considering the amount of buffer space the SW and HW use. fun! - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 19:46:51 -0500 (EST) From: Gary Assassin Subject: Re: CD-R or CD-RW: does it matter?? Johnny B, my link to the Jill Sobule tapes. I would go for the CD-R. Much more stable and reliable. Here is a fact you can't ignore. As of last year, if you writer a CD-RW (and possible even a CD-R) with your CD-RW drive, only that drive can read them back. It's a fuck-up in the technology. I bought a CD-RW and couldn't even read my own discs. I returned it and got a CD-R. Excellent! ------------------------------------ If you have a condom and sunscreen SPF 15 or greater, than it's safe to look at http://www.panix.com/~gsa/index.html On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, John B. Jones wrote: > hello high tech fegs-- > > so for $349 i can get a sony CD-R that will record at 4x, read at 8x. > > for 50 dollars more, i can get a CD-RW (not sure of brand) that will record > CD-R 's at 2x and write to CD-RW's at 2x and read at 6x. > > my ? is: is it worth it? i guess the only thing i would be using the RW > capability for is backing up files. > > > i am thanking you, > -john > > ps. can that sony cd-r write at slower speeds than 4x if i need it to? (for > example, my internal cd drive is only a 2x, so i probably would have to > record at 1x to do a direct cd to cd copy) is that a standard feature, or > a special, added feature?? > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 18:58:24 -0600 From: Gene Hopstetter Subject: Re: from the BBC....(that cat fight you wanted, Eb) >From: lj lindhurst My problem with Oasis is not the Beatles Thing, but the Rawk Star Thing. >And even if they are assholes who make derivative music, does that make it >LESS enjoyable? Can't something be derivative AND enjoyable? Sure, it can be derivative AND enjoyable. Apples in Stereo are derivative of the 1910 Fruitgum Company, and Oasis are derivative of the Beatles. That's how popular music is, right? And art, too? And literature? Whatever's current is either a reaction to or a development of what was done before, and often it's both. There'd have been no Abstract Expressionists without Monet, and there'd prolly be no Oasis without the Beatles. That's all fine with me. But the difference, IMNSHO, is their attitude. Oasis are arch Rawk Stars. Robert Schneider, the leader of Apples in Stereo, is not. He's a dood. I'm sure he'd rather sit at home with his 4-track and some friends and listen to old 45s, whereas Liam would rather pull birds and drive Bentley's into his swimming pools. Schneider's a nice, humble guy. I met him, and he didn't even beat me up. He'd probably even have let me take a picture of him without any major litigation. I don't want to get within 100 yards of any of those Oasis people without a loaded gun handy; so why the fuck should I buy their records and reinforce that behavior? Fuck that, and fuck them. That behaviour should have all died with Keith Moon, but heck, Keith seemed like a fun guy to be around. Even John Lennon was personable up to the day he was murdered, right? I don't see much excuse not to be. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:00:14 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: CD-R or CD-RW: does it matter?? Very infoormative article with some good advice: http://macworld.zdnet.com/pages/september.98/Feature.4447.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:51:57 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: Covenant in DC, 10/27 (no RH content, I'm afraid) On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, Christopher Gross wrote: > The great Swedish techno-industrial dance (or EBM, as they prefer to call > it) band Covenant will be playing in Washington DC tomorrow, Oct. 27. > Opening act will be the Pygmy Children. The show is at Club Heaven, 2327 > 18th St. NW (in Adams Morgan), doors opening about 9:30-10, and admission > is $16 (a bit pricy, but not enough to keep me away). I'd encourage > everyone to attend, and not just because I'm friends with some of the > promoters; Covenant put on a great show when they were here last year. > As a special added attraction, Oct. 27 is also, ahem, my birthday. So > come on out and help me celebrate (or drown my sorrows)! Maybe we can get > the DJs to play some of _Storefront Hitchcock_ between sets. What?!? And miss CHiPs '99 on TNT? You're fuckin' crazy. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:54:53 -0800 From: "Partridge, John" Subject: CD-R and RH content (how'd that slip in) FWIW, I went through the same analysis and reached the same conclusion: go with CD-R. CD-RW makes more sense if you're doing frequent data backup and don't require long-term archival storage. CD-R makes sense for audio stuff. Plus, the CD-R blanks are a tenth the cost of CD-RW blanks (at least for now). So here's a not irrelevant techie question: when you buffer the source CD for recording, does the software do multiple reads to lower the overall error rate? A related question is: can the audio CD be read at these fancy (4x, 8x, 16x) speeds or does it trickle in at 1x? Also, I know there's a bunch of extra bits on a standard CD that various manufacturers use (e.g., Sony's 20-bit supersampling whatchumacallit, or HDCD's fancy sound enhancer). So do those bits make it over - is the copy an actual bit-image or just a kind of lowest-common-denominator extraction? And to wrap up: has anybody bought one of the new Philip CD recorders? They take optical digital inputs; it supports multiple sessions so you can add more and more songs until the CD is full; the high end one can cope with different sampling rates (for all you DAT folks); and of course they cope with analog inputs from cassette, turntable, etc. The bad news is they require some special CD blanks that allow them to add a "do not copy this copy" code but are otherwise 100% backward compatible with existing CD players. Re Storefront Hitchcock: My reaction was very similar to Eb's although his choice of soft-spot songs is a little different from mine. To step behind the ditto marks: intersong banter varied from poor to fair (with, IMHO, "excellent" best exemplified by the "Seek Ye The One Called Clint" monologue). A devout atheist, I felt the "I like cathedrals filled with carcasses / religion is perilously close to pornography" sermon to be a) unoriginally politcally correct (forgive the redundancy); and b)lacking the dazzle and vibrancy of Robyn's more typical verbal paintings. Song choice was good, not great, given the songs he was playing live at the time - left me in a why-couldn't-he-have-played-X-instead kind of mood. On the plus side: Finally some new RH songs! It's like finally coming up for air. Glass Hotel is such a favorite of mine and I really liked this performance of it. There are others I liked a lot too but my CD player ate my CD (no joke; i think it thinks it's a cassette player) so this is all drawn from a single listening. The anticipatory ache for his next studio album just went up another notch. John who tried not to say anything derisive about the dumb-ass self-centered off-topic threads that have choked the list like my bathtub drain is choked with hair and muckola, but in the end failed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:34:34 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: CD-R or CD-RW: does it matter?? On Mon, 26 Oct 1998, John B. Jones wrote: > for 50 dollars more, i can get a CD-RW (not sure of brand) that will record > CD-R 's at 2x and write to CD-RW's at 2x and read at 6x. being able to write CDs at quadruple speed would be very nice, and unless you're going to be recording over a given disc 8 ro 10 times, the RWs aren't even cost-effective (nor as portable, since they don't read in normal CD-ROM drives). i would definitely keep the $50 and buy the faster CDR-only drive. a ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:58:16 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: from the BBC....(that cat fight you wanted, Eb) >>From: lj lindhurst > >My problem with Oasis is not the Beatles Thing, but the Rawk Star Thing. Perhaps I should have made that clear, because I'm talking about much more than music. On purely musical grounds they're pretty much ignorable. It's what they stand for that causes my bile. May I point out, since it has been missed in the furor, that I said "Beatles/Glam" and Beatles/TRex". Probably if I were being wholly accurate I would have mentioned that they got more from Slade than anybody. Although you wouldn't know it from "She's Electric", which sounds like a Beatles C or D side. The problem isn't "derivative" really either. As Gene aptly says here: >That's how popular music is, right? And art, too? And literature? >Whatever's current is either a reaction to or a development of what was >done before, and often it's both. This is true. There really is no such thing as "wholly original music". But in Oasis I don't see ANY individual spin, no quirk of style, no new twists, nothing added. I don't see any spark. And yes, that's something I want. It's very snooty :). Fortunately for me there are LOTS of bands who are willing to provide such a thing. And they generally have much smaller followings than Oasis. So some people think Oasis is shite? Should you really care? They can fill arenas full of people who don't. They have millions in their bank accounts because of it. Perhaps with the most powerful microscope ever made you could spot my concern for the poor misunderstood Gallagher boys, but I think it may not be powerful enough. I might perhaps have more if they didn't think the world owed it to them to put up with their yobbish behavior. I'm not that into the swashbuckling romance of the oh-so-daring hotel-trashing wide boy wonder. Wow. Tantrums. Woo fuckin hoo. A three year old can throw a tantrum. >he didn't even beat me up. He'd probably even have let me take a picture >of him without any major litigation. Uh huh. I went up to Momus after the show on Saturday, and he was quite nice. Even seemed a little flattered. No sign of a snarl anywhere :). >Moon, but heck, Keith seemed like a fun guy to be around. Even John Lennon >was personable up to the day he was murdered, right? I don't see much >excuse not to be. Moon was by all accounts pretty charming. John Lennon, less consistently so, but still didn't treat people with arrogant disdain either. Love on ya, Susan oh and Ebby poo- wanna see a catfight, see if you can rent some mud-wrestling tapes, OK? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 21:33:38 EST From: Ross Overbury Subject: Re: CD-R and RH content (how'd that slip in) > > FWIW, I went through the same analysis and reached the same conclusion: > go with CD-R. CD-RW makes more sense if you're doing frequent > data backup and don't require long-term archival storage. CD-R makes > sense for audio stuff. Plus, the CD-R blanks are a tenth the cost of > CD-RW blanks (at least for now). meetoo. Besides, DVD-R is probably going to blow CD-R and CD-RW away for economical data backup mighty soon. Even for frequent b/u, CD-R is pretty good. You can do multi-session data disks, or just not close the disk until you've filled it up. > > So here's a not irrelevant techie question: when you buffer the source > CD for recording, does the software do multiple reads to lower the > overall error rate? A related question is: can the audio CD be read at > these fancy (4x, 8x, 16x) speeds or does it trickle in at 1x? Also, I > know there's a bunch of extra bits on a standard CD that various > manufacturers use (e.g., Sony's 20-bit supersampling whatchumacallit, > or HDCD's fancy sound enhancer). So do those bits make it over - is the > copy an actual bit-image or just a kind of lowest-common-denominator > extraction? Based on the proportion of "buffer underrun" horror stories I've read, I doubt there's any time spent on multiple reads. The biggest problem is not being able to get the data off the source disk quickly enough. > > And to wrap up: has anybody bought one of the new Philip CD recorders? > They take optical digital inputs; it supports multiple sessions so you > can add more and more songs until the CD is full; the high end one can > cope with different sampling rates (for all you DAT folks); and of > course > they cope with analog inputs from cassette, turntable, etc. The bad > news is they require some special CD blanks that allow them to add a > "do not copy this copy" code but are otherwise 100% backward compatible > with existing CD players. They cost a fair bit more, don't they? If you've already got a computer I think you're better off with a CD-R computer drive. They're much more versatile. Someone else (sorry, I'm using elm and can't read/write at the same time) wanted to know about read speeds. One player I've got reads audio at 1X only, but reads with no jitter correction necessary. The recorder reads at 2X, but the jitter correction makes the read take longer than the actual playing time! - -- Ross Overbury, apprentice fossil Montreal, Quebec, Canada email: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 15:47:23 +1300 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: D#/bzzz >Even though thiz mizzion againzt the Eb-Thing waz a failure, we zwear our >next will be zuccezzful. Even now, the our greatest bee-zcientizts are >working on a way to integrate our bee-time travel devizes with lollipop >technology, hzz hzz hzz. We will go back to the pazt and terminate your >enemy there as a young larvae, hzz hzz hzz. . . . . > >But now we zend the zwarm to New York Zity -- death to all who oppoze uz! >Bzz! Bzz! It's all part of the conspiracy, you see. On Ummagumma, you hear a bee being swatted by a flyswat (just before the improbably titled track involving an ancient Scot [1] reciting poetry. So what, apart from a yellow-striped [2] insect, is a Bee? B is a letter of the alphabet, and bees are famous for their sting. Who do we know who is best known as a letter forllowed by something, um, sharp? D#, perhaps? And doesn't Gordon Sumner fit into this conspiracy somewhere, too? James (perhaps she's just suffering dys-Pepsi-a) PS - welcome back, Miles! I wondered where you'd got to! And thanks for the nice comments! Oh, and it's Scithers. [1] yeah, I know technically the Picts and Scots were different races - my GF is of Pictish descent... [2] yellow stripes? don't we know someone who wears yellow stripes? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 98 21:41:11 EST From: Ross Overbury Subject: More CD-RW (short) BTW, you can read CD-RW disks on some CD-ROM and audio players, but it's iffy because the CD-RW disks are not as reflective. Or was that CD-R disks burned in a CD-RW writer? Anyway, the data format's the same. Someone had said (Gary?) that writers would only read their own disks, and that sounds like an (over-)extension of the above. They do seem to be more finicky. One more reason to think twice before going for CD-RW. - -- Ross Overbury Montreal, Quebec, Canada email: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:18:22 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: is that a 2x CD-R in your pocket or... [0% Robyn] Thanks to Susan, JH3, James (who got the spelling of "Scithers," yay! Wonder if there were smart-ass Jam fans in ASIMOV'S office who'd greet him with "Good morning, Scithers-Jones..."?), lj, Dolph, Hal, Natalie, and anyone I might have left out who's welcomed me "back" to Fegmaniax! Today's headlines: lj plays Gallaghers' Advocate: >Perhaps I need someone to define "ripping off," because that suggests to >me that they are out-and-out STEALING music from the Beatles. Is this the >case? I am no Beatles expert, but I sure the hell haven't heard any >Beatles songs on any of their albums. My beef with Oasis isn't because they steal so openly and gleefully from the Beatles and the Stones (and nicking some of Johnny Rotten's vocal swagger while they're at it). Rather, it's because they've begun ripping off themselves! Their first two albums were glorious examples of the forger's art, but almost every song on BE HERE NOW is a lazy retread of one of their earlier songs. C'mon boys, there's plenty that you've left untapped in the Lennon/McCartney and Jagger/Richards catalog! Try crossing "20,000 Light Years From Home" with "Nowhere Man!" Hook the rhythm of "Tumblin' Dice" to the vocal lines from "Revolution!" Why, that's half of your next album right there! John "Roger Jackson Suspect #3" Partridge signs off thusly: >who tried not to say anything derisive about the dumb-ass >self-centered off-topic threads that have choked the list like my >bathtub drain is choked with hair and muckola, but in the end failed Kudos! You *almost* made it through the entire message. Better luck next time! And watch out for the derisive wrath of that notorious anti-technical-jargon/hardware-specs crowd, who in their self-centered softheaded wrath might well take offense at the first 2.5k of your post and summarily exile you to "THE TOWER," where you'll be confined in solitary and fed nothing but Quailspew on toast. Or, list-Stalinists that they are, maybe they'll just forcibly relocate you to fegmaniax-announce. The horror. The horror. later, Miles ================================================== Miles Goosens R. Stevie Moore website, now with sound! http://www.rsteviemoore.com My personal page, all silent all the time: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles Join the Wire Mailing List: http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/wire ================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 19:33:54 -0800 From: "Chris!" Subject: Re: CD-R and RH content (no, I took it out, but stuck something else in...) Partridge, John wrote: > > FWIW, I went through the same analysis and reached the same conclusion: > go with CD-R. CD-RW makes more sense if you're doing frequent > data backup and don't require long-term archival storage. CD-R makes > sense for audio stuff. Plus, the CD-R blanks are a tenth the cost of > CD-RW blanks (at least for now). A large part of this is that none of it matters in two years because we'll all be putting such things on really cheap DVDs of some color. So, the CD-R is the way to go, as is mentioned above. Spending more for something that will become more obsolete is not up to the Tews standard of pecuniary consumption, no? Also, as many may have mentioned, the price of blanks is less than small third world children. .chris ObOasis footnote: the only real "rip-off" of the Beatles is (memory failing because I refuse to listen to the album anytime soon) "Don't Look Back in Anger" where Mr. G handily borrow the beginning to "Imagine" as far as the piano chords are concerned. He just reversed them and gave them a slightly different tempo. This is more than noticeable, but far from a copyright violation. Oh, yeah, speaking of pissing one's pants, Oasis and starfucking, I once shared a bathtub-style multi-man pisser with the younger Gallagher [sp?]. Overall, rather unimpressed with the "future of Rock and Roll" at that moment. I was not surprised, 'tho. I let you take what you will from that last comment. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 16:41:55 +1300 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: oasis >Susan, I will say the same thing to you that I say to EVERYONE who claims >to hate Oasis because they are just "ripping off the Beatles": Please >point out to me, in specific detail, exactly WHERE on any one of their >albums they are ripping off the Beatles. Well, the Beatles are probably my favourite ever group. If Robyn Hitchcock, Brian Eno, Andy Partridge, Richard and Danny Thompson all got up on stage together (Carl; Palmer on Drums???;), they still wouldn't quite equal it for me [1]. And I do think that Oasis recycle a lot of Beatlesisms. But having said that, they also produce very fine music. I mean, we don't say "Look at Flesh no. 1 - he's just ripping off the Beatles" about Robyn, do we? Yet that is as close as, say "She's electric" - possibly Oasis's most Beatlesque track. The point is that it's incredibly difficult NOT to be influenced by the Beatles if you grew up since the 60s, either directly or indirectly. Within the Britpop style, the Beatles are a prime influence, along with everyone from the Rolling Stones to the Moody Blues. You want British 60s influnce? Try Dodgy's "Free Peace Sweet". A good album, but it reeks 1966 UK. The fact is that, even disregarding the influence of the Beatles, some of what Oasis has done is very good and will stand the test of time. Other Oasis material sucks mightily. What gets me, though, is the Gallagher Brithers' insistence that what they do is not influenced by the Beatles, or that the Beatles are only still remembered because of them, or whatever other coprolalia they have emerged with. As for being as good as the Beatles... if Oasis puts out a dozen records as good as "What's the Story (Morning Glory)" within nine years - each expanding and evolving from previous work, abreast of or ahead of the latest trends in music - without also putting out any dogs like "Be here now", then I will concede that they can be considered alongside the scouse wonders. >Can't something be derivative AND enjoyable? Terry, you're our Monkees expert - what do you think? James (np - Eno's "Taking Tiger Mountain" - Velvetsisms galore!) [1] now THAT I'd like to see! James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 20:22:35 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: just like my da-addy, sellin his ba-aby... but can *anybody* --be honest, now-- possibly hear that song, any version (and i quite like moe tucker's version,) without thinking of Miller's Crossing? what channel? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #404 *******************************