From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #252 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Monday, July 6 1998 Volume 07 : Number 252 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Grant Lee Buffalo [dsaunder@islandnet.com (Daniel Saunders)] from rand - sticking to the evil\writing thread with _tons_ of RH content [Tim Fuller ] Re: 2, 4, 6, 8, now I must consolidate [amadain ] Re: jane brody [amadain ] Re: from rand - sticking to the evil\writing thread with _tons_ of RH content [normal@grove.u] Y & O [dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)] Re: 2, 4, 6, 8, now I must consolidate [Lorelei D Laird Subject: from rand - sticking to the evil\writing thread with _tons_ of RH content Okay, first off - I wrote: I think that the only way to be a good writer is to explore one's dark side. I spoke to Robyn about this once upon a time, and he said he had to explore the feelings within himself, as opposed to being afraid of them. > then the lovely and insightful susan replied: > And that he does. > Athough I think you may not be -entirely- right about one thing. > Although I do agree that a definite change came about somewhere around > the time of "Eye", which is painful in its honesty, I would argue that > GD is this kind of darkside exploration too. > I always thought that one reason RH might have hated it, aside from the > making of it being a horrible memory, is that it really seems to dredge > up some inner ugly that he doesn't necessarily want to revisit. As I listen to "Groovy Decay" in my walkman...I have to concede that I have always wondered about this album - or the songs - in their various incarnations. I feel a bit dumb, because I figure everyone on the list knows this except for me - and I've never asked Robyn because I was afraid to - but does anyone know if GD was recorded during his divorce? I'm so out of the loop I don't even know who RH was married to - the woman whom I guess to be Maisie's mom - I always wondered if it was Rosalind Kunath... I shouldn't say this, but I know there was a lot of drinking and depression going on at this time, and now that I *really* listen to the album, and __ignore__ the production, there are some great songs on the album. "St. Petersburg" gives me goosebumps, and if we are talking about lyrical and artistical honesty, listening to "Night Ride To Trinidad," "Fifty-Two Stations," "The Rain," and "It Was The Night" makes me feel very sad... In fact, I've always loved "52 Stations," "America," "The Rain," and "It Was The Night." It is really easy for me to separate the song from the production - so maybe that's way this album does not make me cringe - well - unless I think about the production values. Robyn told me from "now on I'm going to use my demos for albums...because they always seem to turn out better." Guess we'll find out soon enough with the new material... > And thank you Susan for saying: > I think you are an extraordinarily brave person. Making this choice > {choosing to be alive} says a lot about you, of which all is good :). I have more to write - but luckily for ya'll - my connection is about to run out... Two quick things, Susan, I'll find out about Timothy Findley for you and tell you which book *I* would start with... And Dave - I see how I am over-generalizing with an absolute __statement__ like "I think the only way to be a good writer is to explore one's dark side." That, and other things...must be left for another post :} fading back into yesterday before tomorrow comes, Randi *what scares you most will set you free* - Robyn Hitchcock ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 13:57:22 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: Read this post.........or don't. >>>Surprisingly when I began to come to grips with my S/M orientation, >that was one of the key steps on my personal road to wellness. > >Too much information. I repeat, too much information! It's such a commonplace fact of my life that I kind of forget that other people might be bothered knowing about it, so in a way I apologize (i.e., I'm sorry you were made uncomfortable, but not sorry I mentioned it). Besides, it's not like I went and described in detail what I do or anything, it was just a passing mention of a fact I thought relevant. Incidentally, I feel compelled to say that it's not all what you (probably) think it is with whip-wielding spike-heeled crazy people. Most people have some ideas about what it is that doesn't really fit actual practice, which is often a good deal more functional than the silly fiction (most of which incidentally, isn't written for or by actual players, but for or by very weird "straight" people :)). I know of one well-known S/M activist couple who were interviewed for the Springer show and rejected as "too sane"- there are a lot of nonkinky people who can't claim this distinction. Can't promise it'll never come up again at all, but only when relevant to the discussion, as it kinda was there (dark sides and all that). I'll note those posts in the title if you like. >My last roomate went schizo on me, it was creepy. He had foiled his >room and was recieving messages. What is it with psychos and foil!? I >ended up calling his parents to come and get him. He's not the same >anymore. I'm not quite sure where we jumped from perversion to schizophrenia. Do I want to know? Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:26:01 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: Revelling in evil >I do think that all of us have the potential to do considerable evil, >given the right circumstances, the human species is capable of the most >wonderful and most depraved acts. So yes you are right that it is better >to try to deal with your potential to be evil, I think I was disturbed >that you used the word "revel" because that implies some enjoyment in >committing or contemplating evil acts, which is a worry to me. I actually was using this word because it appeared in someone else's comments. It had occurred to me that what some might perceive as revelling others might perceive as a multi-faceted exploration of one's own imaginative capacity, which would include imagining how something horribly evil would be enjoyable. I don't believe that this was J. Katherine's view (the original poster) at all, she seemed to be more upset over people who were gleefully vicariously enjoying a double pleasure of really digging evil and also digging being a moral finger-pointer at the very same time. But it did occur to me that there were writers such as Burroughs (Ballard is in some ways an even better example), who came immediately to mind, who did appear to be revelling in the evils they described, and I felt that in his case there was some kind of defense called for, as I believe his aims to have been valid and honest. As far as I know no one has gone and found a whole bunch of oddly mutilated corpses and slime-covered insect shrines near his home, now have they? :) >you just used a n inappropriate term , you don't seem to be a person >who would get satisfaction in being evil (and by evil I mean >committing an act which would grossly injure another creature >physically , mentally or otherwise , without their consenting to that >act) Me, no. I'm an exceedingly polite pacifist vegetarian who can't even bring herself to kill irritating household bugs. When I lived in an apartment with mice, I just let them be until I was convinced they were a health hazard, and then had a fit trying to get ahold of humane traps. They have as much right to live as I do, just not in the same domicile :). Anyway, I do, however, have some cruelty in my personality. EVERYONE does to some extent. Mostly we manage to satisfy/cathart this side of ourselves via artistic outlets, I think, which is why it's vital that they exist in the culture. I was just thinking about this last night when watching all those Twilight Zone reruns- Rod Serling actually had a pretty cruel sense of humor. I hadn't noticed it until last night. But think about those ironic endings for a minute- many of them are like DOUBLE knife-twistings, really nasty nasty ironies, and not always to people who are necessarily "bad" either (though being as he has a big thing about justice, the bad ones are usually the people who get the worst, e.g., "A Nice Place To Visit"- Sebastian Cabot's laughter at the end is unbelievably chilling too). >However, I still stand by my statement that it is not a good thing >to dwell too much on the dark side of ones nature, to the extent that >one becomes obsessed , I don't think anyone was advocating becoming obsessed. It was more (at least for me) about coming to grips with it rather than pretending it isn't there. >violent fantasies and eventually acted it out. The other two were >involved in a killing of a male as part of gang fight, but their >attitude to evil certainly would have predicated them towards committing >the act, they "revelled " in evil to great extent. Yeah, but did "Scream" do this work? H.P. Lovecraft? Alfred Hitchcock? No. That was there and would have been there had these kids not seen or read ANY horror fiction. They would have "revelled" no matter what, given their particular internal make up, and not exactly in the sort of way I had in mind when I was using it about writers. This word "revelled", how problematic it has become. I suppose it could be said that Ted Bundy and J.G. Ballard both revelled in evil, but oh, what a difference there is! :) >by the artificial creation of countries by the colonists etc, etc, then >even the Bundy's and Dahmers of this world pale in insignificance. Agree with this part (snipped for brevity). The thing is, when you're talking about this kind of evil, it's a good deal less -startling- and done with motives in mind that a lot of people (unfortunately) instinctively vibe with, e.g., greed. I think some people even are really INTO this and admire it, this "nothing personal to you rainforest dwellers, but I must needs make a million bucks" thing. They seem to be less into it when it's persons of their own race, but let's not go there! >stuff to great extremes if you are for instance , writing comedy , or >possibly science fiction. Eh? I always thought those were really excellent genres for dark-side explorations. Most of the world's darkest writing can be placed loosely (or firmly) in the SciFi genre. Comedy too, -can- be excellent for this, as it is often the place where people deal with issues that if presented seriously would perhaps cause riots or be too much to handle, generally (anyone seen "Brother from Another Planet"?, "The Ruling Class"?, "Hollywood Shuffle"? :)). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:52:45 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: 2, 4, 6, 8, now I must consolidate >> Dr. Laura Schlessinger >I have not a *clue* who this person is. Do I need to know? More Ameri-centric conversation, I'm afraid :). She is not actually a doctor in the sense that is being implied by her using the title in conjunction with a call-in advice show- she does have a doctorate, in PHYSIOLOGY. Which is one of the many irritating and dangerous things about her, but that's already been covered :). She has a highly rated syndicated call-in advice show where she supposedly is giving therapy but actually is dishing out bad advice and verbal abuse. On rare occasions her advice is sensible, but then, there's that old adage about a stopped clock being right twice a day. >Lorelei (I *must* actually know the song, someone give me a lyric and >jog my memory) said: There is a Gershwin song: "She had a most immoral eye/ They called her 'Lorelei'/ She created quite a stir/And I wanna be like her" :). That may or may not be the one you're thinking of. >Who're you calling obscure? I'll have you know they made number one on >the singles chart down here in 1989! ;) I thought the Chills used to be >relatively big on US college radio? Or was that just propaganda from >Flying Nun? Sometime around 1989-90, when I was heavily involved with the head of the rock format at the university station (where I now work as a jazz DJ :)), New Zealand pop was very very big, and the Chills were indeed big at the college stations I knew of, as well as the Verlaines and The Bats. >I'd call them 'boppy dark', if there was such a genre. Though perhaps I >wouldn't call them 'self-consciously Bauhausian-modernist' - I think >only Numan could live up to that particularly inspired label. :) Ok everyone, just admit it! I am QUEEN OF THE AWKWARD NEOLOGISMS! No one else can even TOUCH me! :) >NP Apollo: Atmospheres & Soundtracks, by Mr Eeeeeeno... hey, wasn't that >an indigestion medicine once upon a time? Can you still get that stuff? Yes. We've had this come up a couple times. I mentioned once finding some in an Indian grocery store, and others have mentioned that it is available where they live, or at least was. I believe Ross Overbury was even able to come up with lyrics for one of their jingles. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 16:52:25 -0400 From: tanter Subject: Re: from rand - sticking to the evil\writing thread with _tons_ of RH content At 02:11 PM 7/5/1998 -0400, Tim Fuller wrote: >And Dave - I see how I am over-generalizing with an absolute __statement__ >like "I think the only way to be a good writer is to explore one's dark >side." > If you're talking from your own personal experience, it's OK to make an absolute statement--the best writers are those who write from their own experiences (not necessarily autobiographical things) and for you, your dark side is the experience that works. :) Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:40:59 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: jane brody Loopy after a Twilight Zone overdose, Susan mentioned Sebastian Cabot: Just happened to find this boffo link last night: http://findagrave.com/pictures/cabots.html Then Woj wrote: >i can't comment, but a friend who has has this to say: >>However, I wasn't all that impressed with Jane. I thought she was the >>most carefree and fun on-stage, the best of the three able to improvise >>her way into the others songs, and had a brash and entertaining stage >>presence. I already loved the subtle lyricism of Lisa's songs and was >>impressed with the VPK's voice, but Jane's stuff didn't do much for me. In other words, she wasn't the standard trembling-lipped, sisterhood-of-women, narcissistic, self-consciously "sensitive," marketplace-molded Lilith Fair schlock. Jeez Woj, you really gotta stop hangin' around with these folks. Somebody call a deprogrammer! Which was all to the good since today, in the twenty-three to twenty-five age bracket, they have good teeth and 20/20 vision. Eb, still having trouble coming to terms with his bright side ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 18:09:49 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: jane brody >Loopy after a Twilight Zone overdose, Susan mentioned Sebastian Cabot: I'm pretty loopy, generally. >Just happened to find this boffo link last night: >http://findagrave.com/pictures/cabots.html Eb, this is awesome. I only hope I don't sit here for five hours looking around the site. Everybody go check this out! :) Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 20:45:38 -0400 (EDT) From: normal@grove.ufl.edu Subject: Re: from rand - sticking to the evil\writing thread with _tons_ of RH content > I feel a bit dumb, because I figure everyone on the list knows this > except for me - and I've never asked Robyn because I was afraid to - but > does anyone know if GD was recorded during his divorce? > > I'm so out of the loop I don't even know who RH was married to - the > woman whom I guess to be Maisie's mom - I always wondered if it was > Rosalind Kunath... Well, was Robyn ever married? I recall some article saying that he hadn't had any wives (dead or otherwise), but then, there are articles claiming that Morris Windsor's real name is Otis Fagg. (Could someone ask Robyn for the truth behind that?) I've heard rumblings that Rosalind Kunath was Maisie's mother, but no-one seems to know for sure. (Responses tend to be along the lines of "I think it's Rosalind Kunath, but it's not really any of our business.") What year was Maisie born in, anyhow? > I shouldn't say this, but I know there was a lot of drinking and > depression going on at this time, and now that I *really* listen to the > album, and __ignore__ the production, there are some great songs on the > album. I get the impression from the liner notes that Robyn was an alcoholic who hit rock bottom at about that point. The songs and his disappearance tend to support this. I haven't listened to GD in a while, but I don't recall the production really bothering me. I'm sure some of you will infer some things about my taste in productions from this. And is Gloss Fish getting out to any of you-all? Jeremy Underwood, myself and The Modern Lizard Quartet have requested evaluations/descriptions of our sounds, if anyone would be as kind. Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 01:06:11 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich) Subject: Y & O >Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 00:41:32 -0400 (EDT) >From: Tim Fuller >Subject: from randi - re: capacity for evil - 44% RH content > >And it could be the reason I find some of the songs on "Moss Elixir" the >most honest and personal Robyn has ever recorded...it kills me every time >I hear the last song on that album... > >He's had aspects of honesty in his lyrics ever since he met Cynthia and >recorded "Eye." >And it always freaks me out when Robyn sings "You and Oblivion" - >especially the way he looks {live} when he sings "just like the death >train got my pa." Ii walked into the 9:30 club in DC just as Robyn started into this song...My lasting impression of that night was of Robyn singing those lines...His expression was indescribable...Anyone else notice how it sometimes sounds like he is choking on those words when he does it live, sometimes? Also, did he ever do it electrically with the Egyptians? -luther ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 22:50:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Lorelei D Laird Subject: Re: 2, 4, 6, 8, now I must consolidate Excerpts from mail: 6-Jul-98 2, 4, 6, 8, now I must cons.. by Danielle@sinesurf.co.nz > > Lorelei (I *must* actually know the song, someone give me a lyric and > jog my memory) Ah, my field of expertise! I collect these. Paul Simon: "Her name was Lorelei/She was his only girl/She called him 'Skidoo'/But his Christian name was Mr. Earl." Pogues: "and no one knows but Lorelei/river, river have mercy, take me down to the sea..." Tom Tom Club: "Lorelei Lorelei/What is happening?/I'm not sure" Styx: "Lorelei let's live together/brighter than the stars forever" Forgot the lyrics to the Cocteau Twins' Lorelei song, but it's floating out there too. > > an obscure New > > Zealand band called The Chills > Who're you calling obscure? I'll have you know they made number one on > the singles chart down here in 1989! ;) I thought the Chills used to be > relatively big on US college radio? Or was that just propaganda from > Flying Nun? Heh. Well, you must remember that I was ten in 1989. :} I wouldn't be surprised if they were rather big on college radio, as they're quite good and radio friendly. At any rate, I'd never heard of them before, and neither had most other people I consulted. I only discovered them because the guy who trained me to be a DJ (incidentally, another feghead) had me play "Pink Frost" once, then "House With A Hundred Rooms"; then I was hooked. - -Lorelei ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:20:58 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: none worth mentioning just wanted to say that I am currently listening to "Cars" by the one and only Gary Numan, and speaking of Numan (but a different one) - go Holland! (and yes, Beckham is a wanker) James ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 00:47:49 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: 2, 4, 6, 8, now I must consolidate >Heh. Well, you must remember that I was ten in 1989. :} I wouldn't be >surprised if they were rather big on college radio, as they're quite >good and radio friendly. At any rate, I'd never heard of them before, >and neither had most other people I consulted. I only discovered them >because the guy who trained me to be a DJ (incidentally, another >feghead) had me play "Pink Frost" once, then "House With A Hundred >Rooms"; then I was hooked. > >-Lorelei I was twelve in 1989, and I have a Chills album, too! I think it's called "Submarine Bells"? P.S. what is "college radio"? :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:45:16 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Fred Ketchup >also, i guess it was last year, beggar's banquet put out a 2-cd tribute >album to gary. most of it is laughable -- basically bands trying to >out-numan him -- and it would have been nice if songs weren't, uh, >replicated -- there are a two covers of "we are so fragile" and three "are >'friends' electric?". however, an pierle's cover of the latter comes really >close to capturing the essence of the original -- and she does it on a >piano! yow. oh, and there is a curious album by a band simply called "Replicants", which consists entirely of odd covers, one of which is a not too bad version of "Are 'friends' electric?". Not a patch on a couple of the other covers on there, though - a great "Cinnamon Girl" and an evil, lurking, twisted version of "Silly love songs" BTW - what do you Numan fans think of the work he did with (shudder) Robert Palmer[1] ("Clues" and "Maybe it's live")? >P.S. "Glass Flesh" and the Monday's Lunch CD arrived yesterday. Thanks >thanks thanks to Mark Gloster. I am listening to GF now, and so far I like >the Kevin Slick, Mark Gloster, and James Dignan tracks the bestest, but >everything is good! :) love on ya, Susan! >> (i don't like sounding like i think i'm british, but "apartmentmate" is >> long and clunky, and "roommate" and "housemate" are inaccurate. any >> suggestions would be welcome.) here, they're called flatmates, irrespective of whether they live in a student flat, an apartment, or a house. If you say room-mate, you mean just that. Someone who shares your room. I've never heard the other two terms. FWIW >Oh James, we disagree! well, *I* liked it (miffed expression) >>Wookie Conscious wrote: >> i have come to the conclusion that i really enjoy listening to >> annoying music and i enjoy making the lives of people i don't like or >> people i'm angry with listen to annoying music too. actually, i don't >> find the music annoying at all. here's some examples: for you, I'd recommend King Crimson, who either you love or hate, Shonen Knife, Nina Hagen, and (if you can find it) anything by Australian band Scattered Order. SO are like a cross between Throbbing Gristle and Severed Heads, woth song lyrics and titles that even Frank Zappa would be confused by ("1,000 Gene Autrys", "No matresses in Heaven", "The entire combine/Capital of Sweden"???) >A short list of musical obsessions (aside from Robyn): early REM, >Talking Heads, Soul Coughing, the Cure, Paul Simon, an obscure New >Zealand band called The Chills, new wave/eighties/intelligent synthpop, >some ska. Things I've been meaning to become obsessed with: goth music, >sixties folk-rock, New Order & Joy Division, the Byrds, Syd Barrett, >trip-hop, early King Crimson. I remember and forget more on a regular >basis. Welcome Lorelei! Dammit you've got good musical taste! as to other obsessions, try XTC, and the Church (no... they're bands... stop writing your own stories here...) I'd recommend trying their (respective) albums "Skylarking" and "The Blurred Crusade" James (in the land of the Chills[2], Dunedin, NZ) [1] no, wait, I said ROBERT, that is.... oh sheesh [2] 40 Fahrenheit at the moment PS - at the risk of opening a very very old thread, I suspect that Eb's middle name is Welsh... James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 23:46:01 -0700 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: Re: annoying music (catchup on a few threads) At 12.28 AM -0700 7/4/98, Wookie Conscious wrote: >ok, that's long enough. i've forgotten some obvious ones i'm sure. i >know these are all 'annoying' for different reasons, but i'm >wondering if any of you could recommend anywhere else i should look. >does this even make sense? > Well, I actually listen to quite a few of the "annoying" ones on your list but for a different reason I suspect. How 'bout a few others, like the wonderfully annoying and thoroughly enjoyable (IMHO) Nick Cave? And of course I was once a big Skinny Puppy fan. And what about the incredibly annoying voice of Jello Biafra and his various bands. And Psychic TV. Laibach (still into the Slovenian thang). Negativeland. And more recently, on the synthetic side, anyone listened to Loop Guru? I am completely seduced by them. Asian Dub Foundation? Welcome Lorelei! Nice folks here. You'll feel at home. > On the Knights Templar: I'm sure they weren't druids, but they certainly > weren't MoR churchgoers. Didn't the King of France convict them of > witchcraft? Or was he just trying to get his hands on their assets? To my > mind, all those military monks are a bit sinister. Well, not to bring up a big ol' huge possible thread, but the Templars were "Soldiersof Christ" and only answered to the Pope, no matter where they lodged. They established a banking system, complete with lines of credit and checks. They really got up Philip, the King of Frances' nose with their "untouchability. Also, Philips' treasurer was a Templar. They controlled the money of most of Europe. And they tithed to no one (except the Pope). Of course they had vast landholdings. And they were VERY protected (big backing from Bernard - St. Bernard), so of couse Philip used the Papal schism to find a way to get the Templars money and lands without being reprimanded. I mean the chaos of the time during the schism was intense. Whole villages would be excommunicated. And lastly, the crusades were over and the Europeans lost, so these Templars had nothing to do. Their entire order was founded on the mission of being warriors of the Holy Land and protecting pilgims in their goings to and from the Holy Land. Now they just hung around Europe. What King wouldn't be a little miffed at warrior knights with nothing to do and lots of money that the King couldn't touch??? But we all have our obsessions - just 'cuz the first 1200 years of christian history is one of mine... Re: GD and the dark side: I have always held this one as one of my personal favorites (and now Moss Elixir) due just to the painful and honest lyrics. And I did not notice the production end, actually feeling a certain amount of "raw" to that particular session. Glad to hear others like it as well. Re: Maisie. Hmmm, not knowing much about Robyn's personal life, I wonder about the origin of the name. I mean, well, I happen to have read much (can't say most 'cuz he was SO prolific) of Kipling and Maisie is the female protagonist (no, read that antagonist) of one of his novels "The Light That Failed". She's a painter. > I think Card is one of the best writers of this century. He's been more > depressing lately and has been writing tomes, so I havent' been reading > him, which shouldn't decrease the level of my endorsement. I can't think > of anyone who understands people and culture and interconnectedness of > ideas and events as he. I just thought I would say that. I'm on the > outside again. Geez. Well, I've read some of Card and liked most of what I read. Can't get into his "Mormon" novels but I was raised in that retched religion so it's understandable. But I very much think that "Enders Game" is one of the greatest SF novels. Go ahead and laugh, but there is a fair amount about managing people that I think of often from that novel (since that is what I do for a living). Human insight is absolutely correct. And I also think highly of "The Worthing Saga" Can't say the same for "Hyperion" but I can say that for "The Man ion the High Castle" by PKD. I am also a fan of Elizabeth Hand, particularily her novel "Winterlong". Highly recommended. Yes, and a Gibson fan. Sorry. Enough. - - Carrie "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** M.E.Ketone/C.Galbraith meketone@ix.netcom.com cgalbraith@psygnosis.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #252 *******************************