From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #251 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, July 5 1998 Volume 07 : Number 251 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Gray Mooin (and gratuitous Kraftwerk) [fred is ted ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 [croebuck@juno.com (Christopher G. Roebuck)] Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 [amadain ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] gratuitous Kraftwerk (small snippet) [Ethyl Ketone ] Re: Revelling in evil [dlang ] jane brody ["mr. pointy" ] mmmmm, thread catchup... [Mark Gloster ] Read this post.........or don't. [Patrick Welker ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 17:30:37 -0700 (PDT) From: fred is ted Subject: Re: Gray Mooin (and gratuitous Kraftwerk) - ---amadain wrote: > > >Dance Music?!? Who the heck is doing the mashed potato to "Cars"? > >:). > > Well, it's kinda designed to be that, isn't it? >Otherwise all that wicked good drum attack is kind of >wasted :). >Incidentally, hip hop guys apparently think he's > >Godly and almost as good as George Clinton in terms of >stealable grooves. This according to the PP liner >notes. Um, I better beat a hasty retreat here! I'm guessing PPrin has more upbeat tempos than Replicas, tho "When Machines Rock," and "...Disconnect," always get me boppin'. > >Two words: Kraftwerk. > > Extremely different IMO. > > Firstly, Kraftwerk seems to me to come out of sort of > a (dare I say it?) proggie tradition. I mean, > "Autobahn" sounds inspired by the Pink Floyd of > "More", "Atom Heart Mother", &C. as much as by the > Futurists. KW may have been influenced from the prog/Can school, but they were not married to the long form. By the Man-Machine album, Kraftwerk had made a partial shift to the pop, four minute form. Computer World confirmed the trend away from the electro jams. > Important to note also the combination of analog bass > and drums, and the viola, along with the synthesizers > and electronic percussion. Kraftwerk was determinedly > all-machine, it was part and parcel of their whole > Futurist-style ethos. Important, huh?! They sound darn similar to me, violas be damned! :). Analog dots, loops and sweeps, frozen vocals. KW were better programmers, to be sure. And GM did lean on the guitar on Replicas. Still, the trademark Numan cuts remind me of KW more than anything else. That's just me, tho... > Secondly, Gary Numan seems to be interested in >crafting this sort of little sci-fi world and painting >portraits of isolation, paranoia, and alienation, >whereas Kraftwerk don't seem to be much interested in >this kind of thing. Both GM and KW are rooted in the examination of the impact of technology on modern life. They share a common thematic, musical and even visual language to express a different message. As with the music, you see the differences, I see the similarities. >Actually they strike me as for the most part >altogether sunnier. Roger that, Houston! Hey, and let's not forget the *image* thing! KW/GM = rail thin, pale, mascara, black Eurotrash outfits, moving little on stage. I would like to commemorate my FIRST EVER "snip and snipe" post (lobster-blushing, toeing the floor) as follows; (Something Brutus never said was) "De gustibus non est disputandum." Ted "yeah, we get high on music." Kim Deal n.p. on M2: PiL, "Rise." :) _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 20:25:39 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: Gray Mooin (and gratuitous Kraftwerk) >Um, I better beat a hasty retreat here! I'm guessing PPrin has more >upbeat tempos than Replicas, tho "When Machines Rock," and >"...Disconnect," always get me boppin'. It does. "Pleasure Principle" is pretty hook heavy. "Cars" is the obvious example here, but "Films" and "Metal" are also songs that hook in your head severely. If I were in the business of sampling kick ass bass and drum hooks I'd certainly be wanting to "steal creatively" from that album :). Interesting comment from Afrika Bambaataa (sp?) in the liner notes, actually- he comments that at the time he was a club DJ, and played "Cars" a lot, and that people were "ecstatic on the grooves" but completely weirded out by the vocals and lyrics. >KW may have been influenced from the prog/Can school, but they were >not married to the long form. By the Man-Machine album, Kraftwerk had >made a partial shift to the pop, four minute form. This is true. I was just trying to explain that I see their roots (and intentions) as being kinda different (though of course not directly opposed) from GN's. >Important, huh?! They sound darn similar to me, violas be damned! >:). Analog dots, loops and sweeps, frozen vocals. KW were better >programmers, to be sure. Similar but far from the same. I think the analog drums and bass/synthesized percussion textures give a very different feel. And I stick by my position that Kraftwerk's decision to be all-machine was part of a specific Futurist-style agenda as well as an effort to create a particular sound. >And GM did lean on the guitar on Replicas. Still, the trademark Numan >cuts remind me of KW more than anything else. That's just me, tho... "Replicas" was the first post-Tubeway Army record, and Tubeway Army used guitar. "Pleasure Principle" was a deliberate attempt to move away from relying on traditional rock band instrumentation and losing the guitar was a symbolic step in that sense. In some ways it reminds me of the way the original Nat King Cole Trio (not that orchestrated "Mona Lisa" business, but his jazz work) deliberately decided NOT to use drums for the rhythm section but instead rely on the bass and the rhythmic possibilities of the piano. >Both GM and KW are rooted in the examination of the impact of >technology on modern life. They share a common thematic, musical and >even visual language to express a different message. As with the >music, you see the differences, I see the similarities. This is totally true. At least as far as the visual and thematic language goes, I'd not disagree. I think though again, I know I'm being a broken record here, but the analog drums (and viola, very heavily present on "Pleasure Principle") make a big difference in the musical sound. >I would like to commemorate my FIRST EVER "snip and snipe" post You were sniping? I missed it. I thought you were respectfully disagreeing :). Though actually we don't seem to be disagreeing all that much when it comes down to it. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 19:54:10 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: annoying music >Wookie Conscious wrote: > i have come to the conclusion that i really enjoy listening to > annoying music and i enjoy making the lives of people i don't like or > people i'm angry with listen to annoying music too. actually, i don't > find the music annoying at all. here's some examples: > > the residents > ween > severed heads > all my moog stuff > tom waits > philip glass > harry partch > captain beefheart > zappa > tall dwarfs > einsturzende neubauten > negativland > throbbing gristle > aphex twin > eugene chadbourne > snow makes me sad > >...i'm wondering if any of you could recommend anywhere else i should look. Well, presumably you're looking for INTERESTING annoying music as opposed to say, Billy Idol and INXS. The annoyance factor in modern music has always fascinated me. I think that many, many groups owe a sizeable chunk of their success to their "annoying" qualities. Being annoying helps a band get under your skin, helps a band resonate and stand out. Whether it's an annoying voice, an annoying guitar solo, an annoying lyric or an annoying production texture. Etc. Agitating the audience is a key to rock music, and being "annoying" is often part of this. I dig it. It seems like kind of an either/or, off/on chromosome. Either you like being annoyed, or you listen to Whitney Houston. Some of you may still remember my "Singers I'd Rather Listen to Than Morrissey" list, which would be very relevant here, but I'll resist posting it again (yeah, I saved it -- could come in handy again sometime...heh heh). But as for annoying music, how about... Foetus/Wiseblood, Jandek, John Zorn/Painkiller/Naked City etc., Wild Man Fischer, Tiny Tim, Sleater-Kinney, Bruce Gilbert, Ornette Coleman, Brainiac, Ministry/Lard, Butthole Surfers/P/Jackofficers, Iggy Pop/Stooges, the Fugs, Jad Fair/Half Japanese, Killdozer, Silverfish, Nico, the Shaggs, Big Black, Mrs. Miller, Diamanda Galas, Old Skull, Primus/Sausage/Les Claypool, Yoko Ono, L7, Snakefinger, Sonic Youth/Dim Stars/Lee Ranaldo, Silver Apples, the Flaming Lips, Richard Harris, Pere Ubu/David Thomas, NIN, the Raincoats, Glenn Branca, Suicide, Bongwater, the Sex Pistols/PiL, the Dickies, the 3Ds, the Halo Benders, Cecil Taylor, Cop Shoot Cop, Medicine, Cibo Matto, Art Bears, the Fall, Portsmouth Sinfonia, Fripp & Eno, Dinosaur Jr, Lou Reed, Tater Totz, Nomeansno, Laibach, Swell Maps, Richard Hell & the Voidoids, Daniel Johnston, Spacemen 3, Mudhoney, Charles Wuorinen, Dome, the Birthday Party, Napoleon XIV, UT, Velvet Monkeys/B.A.L.L., Reptile, Blonde Redhead, Jesus & Mary Chain, the Cramps, Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit/Praxis, Tones on Tail, King Missile/Dogbowl and the Velvet Underground? Have fun.... And who is Snow Makes Me Sad, anyway? Named and nicknamed Bob, Dave, Tom, and Bernie, The Happenings were bottle fed on Howdy Doodie and Uncle Miltie. Eb np: Shonen Knife/Happy Hour ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 21:58:10 -0500 From: croebuck@juno.com (Christopher G. Roebuck) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 I'm fairly new to the fegmaniax list, and have seen refences to several RH songs that I am not familiar with(i.e. "St. Petersburg", "Gene Hackman"). I have most of his albums, with the exceptions of Gravy Deco and Gotta Let This Hen Out. I can only assume they are B-sides or something. If, however they are on any of the albums...please excuse me, Im from Mississippi(that's why I don't have the other two) Thanks, Chris _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:43:31 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 >I'm fairly new to the fegmaniax list, and have seen refences to several >RH songs that I am not familiar with(i.e. "St. Petersburg", "Gene >Hackman"). I have most of his albums, with the exceptions of Gravy Deco >and Gotta Let This Hen Out. I can only assume they are B-sides or >something. If, however they are on any of the albums...please excuse me, >Im from Mississippi(that's why I don't have the other two) > >Thanks, > >Chris Don't worry, I once read a post here where somebody who shall remain nameless (in more ways than one) didn't even know what "I Dream Of Antwoman" was! Hello? Anybody home McFly? Hehe!!! :) "St. Petersburg" is on Gravy Deco and "Gene Hackman" is so far unreleased. Robyn has been playing it live for a while, though. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 23:37:51 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 >Don't worry, I once read a post here where somebody who shall remain >nameless (in more ways than one) didn't even know what "I Dream Of >Antwoman" was! Hello? Anybody home McFly? Hehe!!! :) Gee, as if it is so -famous-. As if it has actually been officially released and is widely available to non-tape collectors and/or people who don't get to Robyn shows that often. If you want to take a knock on someone, there are better ways to do it than making a joke about their lack of knowledge concerning Hitch-obscurities. Love on ya, Susan now heading back to the SciFi Channel "Twilight Zone" marathon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 01:29:02 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #248 >Gee, as if it is so -famous-. As if it has actually been officially >released and is widely available to non-tape collectors and/or people who >don't get to Robyn shows that often. > >If you want to take a knock on someone, there are better ways to do it than >making a joke about their lack of knowledge concerning Hitch-obscurities. > >Love on ya, >Susan > >now heading back to the SciFi Channel "Twilight Zone" marathon Actually, I was just kidding. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 22:50:06 -0700 From: Ethyl Ketone Subject: gratuitous Kraftwerk (small snippet) At 7.25 PM -0700 7/4/98, amadain wrote: >And I stick by my position that Kraftwerk's decision to be all-machine was >part of a specific Futurist-style agenda as well as an effort to create a >particular sound. > Well, Having a deep interest in what I call "Electronica" going waaaaay back to early 'Floyd, I listened to a little KW back then. And I've always been a big "ambient" fan which lead me up to DCD and others. So "trance" music sorta fell easily onto my plate. Anyway, I recently was plowing through used trance cd's in some London record store and found this cd titled "Trans Slovenia Express". (Some of you know my preference for things Balkan...I just had to buy it!) And of couse, the whole "idea" behind KW hit me after the first listen to this cd. A whole cd of KW covers by Slovenian bands with heavy contribution from Laibach, among others. I think that "futurist-style agenda" is a spot-on way to describe Kraftwerk and what they were trying to do. OK, I'll go back to lurking. Haven't got the bandwith to get to know music as well as most of you. I'm lucky if I know names like Barret and Hitchcock and Gilmore and a couple others. And I can definately hear a couple of different calibers in my neighborhood tonight. Happy 4th indeed. - - Carrie "Questions are a burden for others. Answers are a prison for oneself." **************************************************************************** M.E.Ketone/C.Galbraith meketone@ix.netcom.com cgalbraith@psygnosis.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 16:39:59 +0800 From: Jon Fetter Subject: Lingam's House,The Cat of Siam Flowers, NMH Got back from a trip to Thailand a few days ago. Some points that may be of some interest to some listers: 1. My wife and I spent most of our time in Krabi, southern Thailand, where hulking limestone bluffs jut out of the sea and shoreline just like in "The Man With the Golden Gun" (filmed to the north). The bluffs are riddled with caves and every overhang is festooned with stalactites. One beach we spent a lot of time on had a shallow cave with a shrine to a "Sea Princess," and one day we went to this beach at high tide. We were the first ones on the beach, and the water had reached up to the shrine and swept several lingams into the surf. Lingams are long cylinders of wood carved into the likeness of a phallus and painted red on the tip, and they had been stacked in a pile below a shrine as an offering to the "Universal Womb." I walked into the surf and started retreiving the lingams, some of which were the size of a fireplace log. A breaker caught one and slammed it into my shin. A local Thai man came onto the beach and also started gathering lingams near the shrine. It was a bit embarrassing to walk over and hand him several phalli. "Your lingams are running away," I said to him, and he smiled quietly to himself. 2. A cat chose our bungalow-porch table for his own for a day. He wasn't Siamese, but he was a cat of Siam, so of course I called him "Lucifer Sam." He wouldn't stay by my side, though, he just slept on the table. 3. The illegal copy-tape business is still thriving in Bangkok. No copied Robyn, NMH, Gary Numan, Rubber Shark or Glass Flesh tapes were on sale, so no lost-royalty worries there... 4. I'll write about this one separately. I am now an owner of both NMH CDs, brought from the states by a friend. So whoever's keeping a tally of fegs who own a NMH CD(Eb?), chalk up another. Mangosteems and rambutans, Jon, 1945 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Jul 1998 00:07:23 -0700 From: Danielle Subject: 2, 4, 6, 8, now I must consolidate Oh James, we disagree! > apologies for the blatant NZ music plug here, but if Hitchcock has a > certain Lennon like qualitiy to his voice and sound, then those of you who > prefer the McCartney side of the L&McC combination NEED to hear the new > solo Neil Finn album "Try whistling this". No. No, they really don't. Because the album would disappoint them as it disappointed me, and you'd have made them fork out hard-earned cash for something which is pretty good, but not exactly great. There would be discontented mutterings in Fegland about Dignan's jingoism, general resentment would fester, and this happy little list would become even *more* of a hotbed of unnatural lusts, strange desires, and uneasy sideways glances... Ahem. ;) What I mean is, I adore Neil Finn in a truly pathetic fashion, but I'm not exactly jumping for joy over Try Whistling This. I think the boy was holed up in his Parnell basement for too long, and there's a certain 'dullness' to the whole endeavour, production and melody-wise. I want some *hooks*, dammit! > >In any case, you only have to sing that initial descending > >'ding ding ding!' in my direction to make me giggle, lately... > get it right... it's boooiiiing! ding ding ding dong! :) The boing! I had forgotten the boing! Now, how does the theme to Remington Steele go again? :) Oh Luther, we disagree! > If *I* were engaged to a spice girl (shouldn't the Warhol > Clock be running out on them about now?), I would seek Electrical > outlets. > Girl power my ass! I like the Spice Girls. I like Sporty. I like 'Wannabe' and 'Spice Up Your Life'. I liked the movie, which was patchy, but often pretty funny and self-aware. I like their shoes. I liked the way Sporty told Liam Gallagher to 'come and 'ave a go if ya think yer 'ard enough!' I like to dance. I am often shallow and pop-culturally vapid, and I do not care. I'll miss them when their fifteen minutes are up. > Dr. Laura Schlessinger I have not a *clue* who this person is. Do I need to know? Lorelei (I *must* actually know the song, someone give me a lyric and jog my memory) said: > an obscure New > Zealand band called The Chills Who're you calling obscure? I'll have you know they made number one on the singles chart down here in 1989! ;) I thought the Chills used to be relatively big on US college radio? Or was that just propaganda from Flying Nun? Oh Susan, we disagree! > >New Order > I hadn't thought of them at all > because they seem I dunno, generally "brighter" and missing for the most > part the dark, introverted, self-consciously Bauhausian-modernist quality > that I associate with Numan. I've *always* found New Order dark and introverted, in a danceable way. I'd call them 'boppy dark', if there was such a genre. Though perhaps I wouldn't call them 'self-consciously Bauhausian-modernist' - I think only Numan could live up to that particularly inspired label. :) I had an argument with a friend once over Sumner's voice; he maintained that he couldn't get into New Order because Bernard is so 'expressionless', and I said that I liked New Order partly because I felt that Bernard sounds far more *despairing* than expressionless (assuming that we ignore 'World in Motion'. Ha). What was someone saying about Marvin the Paranoid Android? Danielle NP Apollo: Atmospheres & Soundtracks, by Mr Eeeeeeno... hey, wasn't that an indigestion medicine once upon a time? Can you still get that stuff? I'm full of questions today... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 21:41:33 -1850 From: dlang Subject: Re: Revelling in evil Sue wrote This may reflect a different perception of human nature on your part, as >well. I personally believe that everyone has some evil, some selfishness, >some weakness, some ugliness in them. It is far better to try and deal with >it and understand it, and know where it comes from and what it is when you >see it, than it is to just blindly act out. I do think that all of us have the potential to do considerable evil, given the right circumstances, the human species is capable of the most wonderful and most depraved acts. So yes you are right that it is better to try to deal with your potential to be evil, I think I was disturbed that you used the word "revel" because that implies some enjoyment in committing or contemplating evil acts, which is a worry to me. From what you said Sue clarifying your original meaning , I think you just used a n inappropriate term , you don't seem to be a person who would get satisfaction in being evil (and by evil I mean committing an act which would grossly injure another creature physically , mentally or otherwise , without their consenting to that act) .However, I still stand by my statement that it is not a good thing to dwell too much on the dark side of ones nature, to the extent that one becomes obsessed , especially if one is of fairly low intelligence, has a dysfunctional or abused childhood and is male. As a media studies teacher , I've been running courses for senior students on "Violence in the media" , for a few years now. As research for this , I've read a lot of books on whether the media has any effect on peoples violent acts, so I have a good idea of the profile of potential serial killer. Over the years , I've taught three kids who have committed ultra violent acts, which led to a person dying and another just surviving . All three fitted the profile of deprived backgrounds, but the guy who tried to murder a lady at a train station was the one who obsessed over his violent fantasies and eventually acted it out. The other two were involved in a killing of a male as part of gang fight, but their attitude to evil certainly would have predicated them towards committing the act, they "revelled " in evil to great extent. However, when I really think about it, some of the most evil people on this planet are not the serial killers or even those who commit atrocities in Bosnia ,etc, although certainly they are evil bastards who must be fought at all levels and deserve punishment . No , its the folks who make the policies in governments ( colonisers , ex colonisers, empire builders , especially), financial institutions , multinationals and speculators. Perhaps they don't mean to be evil , but the end result of their policies is evil in many respects. Why? Well ,if we measure the suffering caused by the levelling of rain forests, the dispossession of indigenous people and the destruction of their cultures, the down sizing by companies causing the sacking of millions , (all in the name of furthering profit ), wars started because of economic pressure, massacres of tribes by rival tribe in Africa caused by the artificial creation of countries by the colonists etc, etc, then even the Bundy's and Dahmers of this world pale in insignificance. Randi , you sound an incredibly brave person, I hope all goes well for you, my brother in law had colitis and I know it is hell to live with. However,I must disagree with you on one point, as I think you are generalising a bit when you state "I think that the only way to be a good writer is to explore one's dark side" Like all absolute statements, its just too much of a generalisation . Its not the only way, its one way and it really depends on what genre one is writing in. Certainly on has to have an understanding of human nature to write well, but I don't think one has to take this inner self stuff to great extremes if you are for instance , writing comedy , or possibly science fiction. However, I must admit most of my fave writers were or are somewhat tortured souls ( Dick, Peake, Dylan Thomas, to name but a few), but I don't think its an absolute pre-requisite in order to create good art, it helps in some cases, and in others just leads to literary self indulgence. dave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 11:20:56 -0400 From: "mr. pointy" Subject: jane brody fegs, just heard about a woman named jane brody who covers "arms of love" on her album _grin_. don't know anything about her and haven't heard her, so i can't comment, but a friend who has has this to say: >I've seen Jane Brody and have a copy of her disc. She splits her time >between NYC and the DC area. She played a number of Lilly Fairies shows >with Lisa Cerbone and Vyktoria Pratt Keating. (Hey, how's VPK's tour >going? Anyone go see her?) I saw on of the Lilly Fairies shows here in >Baltimore, and thought it was a lot of fun. > >However, I wasn't all that impressed with Jane. I thought she was the >most carefree and fun on-stage, the best of the three able to improvise >her way into the others songs, and had a brash and entertaining stage >presence. I already loved the subtle lyricism of Lisa's songs and was >impressed with the VPK's voice, but Jane's stuff didn't do much for me. >She was a great addition to the show, but I wasn't too excited to listen >to the album. I did pick up a copy anyway, and gave it a quick listen or >two. It's still in my pile of things to get back to for 2nd and 3rd >chances, but on a first pass it didn't make much of an impression. > >Her album is called Grin, and is available from Levelhead Records, PO Box >3084, Baltimore MD 21229. (410) 455-9522. woj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 08:37:54 -0700 From: Mark Gloster Subject: mmmmm, thread catchup... RE: writing about the dark side: I have some thoughts about this (okay, roll your eyes ;-) ). First, as Norman Mailer puts it, "Don't think about what to write about, write about what you're thinking about." This is the place where most honesty in communication resides. To do otherwise is to possibly write outside your rhealm of concern. Then there's my opinion that, most of the time, the darkness within is more compelling than the light. Even if it is just a driving element of the beautiful, it is hard to remove it without making something full of saccarine. Even shiny happy people have their dark sides. Granted, sometimes its like sand on white bread, but it is pretty hard to separate. Speaking of sand on white bread, when my CD came out, a couple of people who knew me a little thought that I must be a miserable, unhappy person inside because there was some dark things on it. Maybe it's darker than the person whom I share with those around me. Instead, I think the ditties all posess humor, which keeps them from making people miserable unless they want to be miserable which I have no control over. I'm going to briefly contradict myself here, sort of, but: You cannot imagine how hard it is for most musicians to write a good piece of music with an extended chord structure and melody that maintains a major key flavor. It almost automatically becomes sing songy. Robyn can do this, but more and more (listen to ME, Respect, PI) he uses a melody and chord voicings that suggest a minor key while technically being major. I don't think there's a minor chord in "She Doesn't Exist" but it's not a major feeling song. Not to compare this, but it is the same slight of hand that Beethoven used in making us all think that his 5th is in a minor key. That's cool. - -- About drugs, etc. I wanted to clear up that I don't think that it "just takes some will-power to erase addictions." Addictions and self-destructive tendancies can be huge lumbering beasts to wrestle with, and having some help is almost always necessary. I also think that the singular positive entity which 12-step programs provide are a human support network. I think Susan stated this better than I could, so I'll save you the next half hour of another "sharkboy vs. the weevuls of drink and debauchery dissertation #31." - -- About Orson Scott Card I think Card is one of the best writers of this century. He's been more depressing lately and has been writing tomes, so I havent' been reading him, which shouldn't decrease the level of my endorsement. I can't think of anyone who understands people and culture and interconnectedness of ideas and events as he. I just thought I would say that. I'm on the outside again. Geez. - -- Gary Numan Gary Numan is really cool. I haven't heard his new stuff, but like the Talking Heads and Devo (etc.), he was involved it a real renaissance in music which collapsed some musical values that our culture had just been accepting without question. I suppose Eno had been trying to do this for years, but suddenly he had some help. Also, don't ignore those who appeared immediately after, like Wall of Voodoo/Stan Ridgway. - -- CDs I'm going to stop dolphing right now and send some money to Dolph Chaney for his new CD. Happies, - -markg ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 09:07:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Patrick Welker Subject: Read this post.........or don't. >I think that the only way to be a good writer is to explore one's dark side. > Ever read Micheal Gira's - The Consumer? Wonderful book, I read it to my 4 year old every night just before he goes to sleep. I have no children (at least none that I know of) but it sounded nice. >>Surprisingly when I began to come to grips with my S/M orientation, that was one of the key steps on my personal road to wellness. Too much information. I repeat, too much information! My last roomate went schizo on me, it was creepy. He had foiled his room and was recieving messages. What is it with psychos and foil!? I ended up calling his parents to come and get him. He's not the same anymore. An A student in college, full of life. I suppose this is why Schizophrenia is my biggest fear, and why I like Syd(oh no, not Syd again) so much. As for dipping into the dark side of the mind. I figure we all have the same sickness. We just have different ways of feeding it. Someone posted an artiicle about the decline of the music biz with Malcolm m awhile back(I've been busy). Thanx. It was an enjoyable read. If the big guys go down the pipe, who gives a shit. Skip the middle man, I never find what I want at one of those cheesey mall stores. And who the hell has time to record hunt anyhow!? I'm off for a few more wekks, a vacation(of sorts). 'Ta Boethius _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #251 *******************************