From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #247 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 07 : Number 247 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #244 [candlabra@lewiston.com] Re: recommendations... [David Librik ] JWH; Hyperion ["J. Katherine Rossner" ] Oi Wiggy! [Tony.Blackman@sita.int] John Wesley Harding recommendations [Alex Stein ] Bambi [Tony.Blackman@sita.int] Re: Bambi [Eb ] Re: JWH [KarmaFuzzz@aol.com] University Challenge on drugs [Danielle ] Re: Bambi [tanter ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #244 [tanter ] Mr. Sean Lennon and Julian [mbrage@surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu (Michael Brag] little this, little that ["Partridge, John" ] MAD LIBS.... [Andyjames <9337381b@student.gla.ac.uk>] Re: OTC/NMH European tour (no Robyn) [Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Progra] NMH Dates [Mike Runion ] Hyperion (was Re: little this, little that) [Christopher Gross What does this mean? Addicted? Doing a lot recreationally? Under the >influence of a substance at that particular moment? >Well, according to this book (_Many Years from Now_ by Barry Miles), after >about 1962 or 63 (I can't remember exactly), John and Paul smoked pot >routinely on an almost daily basis and then John moved on to much harder >drugs. Pot? Har!! By the time the Beatles moved over to pot, they were already experienced amphetamine users. This fact has been played down, yet everyone remembers the stories of how the Beatles had to play for hours a night in Germany, and the only way for them to manage that was to pop pills (hmm...now that puts a whole new meaning to the term "pop music" ). One of the reasons they took to pot so avidly was that it helped them break away from their speed habit (check the cover of "Beatles for Sale" - dudes look like they are in serious crash-and-burn mode)! >There's no condemnation--maybe that's what disturbs me about it. The >drugs are discussed in a very matter-of-fact way and in the direct quo >from Paul, he does seem to be saying that the drugs were a big help. >(all of Sgt. Pepper is about drugs, for example) Yeah, well *I* always get ripping flashbacks whenever I hear "When I'm 64", for example.... ; ) Chas candlabra@lewiston.com "...a Line of dots illuminated ...for I have seen the Speed of things..." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 02:34:36 -0500 From: David Librik Subject: Re: recommendations... >So thanks to hundreds of fegs with great taste, I >finally listened to John Wesley Harding's _New Deal_. >On second listen, I think it's nothing short of >brilliant. What else by him do you recommend? _Here Comes The Groom_ _Why We Fight_ As the Saw Doctors would say, "Jayzus Gawd Almoighty, dayze are fine albums!" Why this guy isn't incredibly famous is beyond me. Did his label do him dirt? - - David Librik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:50:09 -0700 From: "J. Katherine Rossner" Subject: JWH; Hyperion >From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com >Subject: recommendations... > >So thanks to hundreds of fegs with great taste, I >finally listened to John Wesley Harding's _New Deal_. >On second listen, I think it's nothing short of >brilliant. What else by him do you recommend? Well, everything... :) (Except PETT LEVELS, which only has one interesting song, and David Lewis [see below] does a better version.) None of his other albums sound much like NEW DEAL. My next favorite is WHY WE FIGHT; also DYNABLOB, which used to be available through the fan club only but now can be bought through CDNow (or one of those, might be amazon.com or spree.com). (DYNABLOB II is still only available via fan club or concerts, alas.) His newest album, aWAKE, has some very good stuff but (a liability in my opinion, though likely not in yours) is more rock-y. Along similar lines, if you're able to find a copy of NO STRAIGHT LINE by David Lewis, it's recommended. Not terribly interesting sound, but great lyrics--some of them co-written by JWH, one sung as a duet--they're buddies, and I think former roommates during their Oxbridge stint.) *** More reading: HYPERION, by Dan Simmons (and probably the sequels, but I'm not done yet with the first). I mention it because--does anybody (Dave Librik? you've read this) know degrees of separation Simmons-Hitchcock? Probably just coincidence, but I was struck by the passage in which a major character is taking over an alien ship in battle (oh, yes, it's s.f. stuff). Our character's has looked at these alien ships and characterized them as looking like a certain marine animal... so you get a paragraph that begins, The squid began to break up. Overhead, the blister burned through and scattered liquid Perspex throughout the interior of the cockpit... **** Susan--thanks for all your comments on AA, etc.--very well put. My own guess, for what it's worth, would be that the insistence on complete abstinence is partly because there *are* so many recovering alcoholics who can't judge--e.g. who will drink far more than a non-alcoholic would and think they're being moderate--but also because they're still mired in black-and-white thinking: all or nothing. Katherine - -- Ye knowe ek, that in forme of speche is chaunge Withinne a thousand yere, and wordes tho That hadden pris, now wonder nyce and straunge Us thinketh hem, and yit they spake hem so. - Chaucer, "Troilus and Criseyde" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:13:19 +0100 From: Tony.Blackman@sita.int Subject: Oi Wiggy! >So I've been wondering since i heard this the first time-- is this Wiggy >the same Wiggy who taught Billy Bragg to play guitar? (are there any >other Wiggies we knoe of?) Dunno. At the time of the Soft Boys, both Wiggy and Bragg were knocking around in my home town when they were both in "Riff Raff". As that town is only about 35 miles at the most from Cambridge and a lot of us used to go to quite a few gigs in Cambridge, it's always possible that they would've met. Then again, I tend to call anyone with ill-fitting hair "Wiggy" regardless of whether or not they are wearing a toupee/wig......... but I'm just cruel. Tony P.S.To Nick W especially, I managed to find the Dan Bern CD in the big Tower Records..... and I like it!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 01:16:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Stein Subject: John Wesley Harding recommendations I've always been partial to THE NAME ABOVE THE TITLE... also, he had songs on several of the Warner Bros. JUST SAY... collections... always liked "When the Beatles Hit America" on one of them that seems to pop up in used record stores all the time. Alex _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:26:32 +0100 From: Tony.Blackman@sita.int Subject: Bambi James sed: >The funniest thing about the Young Ones episode, >which the yanks probably won't realise, is the wonderful take-off of >quizmaster Bamber Gascoigne ("Bambi"). I was wondering the other day what had become of him and then, lo and behold, a couple of weeks later he was standing in front of me in the queue to pay in the food section of Richmond Marks and Spencers. He's looking quite a bit older these days (but then again I bet I look a lot older than I did when UC was in it's heyday) and also a bit gaunt. Probably all the sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll or more likely he's just more than a bit miffed that he didn't get his old part back when they resurrected UC and gave it to someone completely arrogant (Jeremy Paxman) instead of just plain smug. Tony. Somehow I don't think that Bamber Gasgoigne counts in an Eb st*rf**kin' sort of way does it? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 01:42:47 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Bambi Tony.Blackman@sita.int wrote: > > Somehow I don't think that Bamber Gasgoigne counts in an Eb st*rf**kin' > sort of way does it? No, not really. ;) Speaking of starfucking, I'm really steamed over not being invited to the Streisand/Brolin wedding. Sheesh, I listened to her new album all the way through -- what more does she want from me? Haven't I sacrificed enough already? I mean, fer chrissake, I even listened to the Celine Dion duet. Segueing.... Never heard anything by John Wesley Harding which impressed me, though admittedly I haven't heard all his albums. I definitely did dump Why Don't We Fight, which someone listed as the best one. I mean, boy, you talk about Elvis Costello's songs being too busy and clunky.... For those interested: Dan Bern plays LA on the 8th, at the same club (Luna Park) where Fred Frith and Marc Ribot recently performed. That is to say: Does Mick Jagger get mash notes from Rosella? Eb np: Firewater/The Ponzi Scheme ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 05:26:01 EDT From: KarmaFuzzz@aol.com Subject: Re: JWH From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com >So thanks to hundreds of fegs with great taste, I >finally listened to John Wesley Harding's _New Deal_. >On second listen, I think it's nothing short of >brilliant. What else by him do you recommend? It Happened One Night The Name Above the Title (even though the production is a bit overdone) Awake also if you can find it, there "God Made Me Do It" Xmas EP which is impossible to find, that has his acoustic version of "Like a Prayer" on it, which is actually more good than funny despite how the idea sounds. the others are good to, but IMHO are a bit more hit & miss. Alex said: >also, he had >songs on several of the Warner Bros. JUST SAY... collections... always >liked "When the Beatles Hit America" on one of them that seems to pop >up in used record stores all the time. Just Say Da. he also did "Warning Parental Advisory" on Just Say Anything (which he did with Steve Wynn). "WTBHA" is kinda surreal, especially now. "WPA" is fucking hysterical. he also has a song on Just Say Roe, which is kinda dull, and does Roky Erickson's "If You Have Ghosts" on the Roky tribute Sire did in 1990. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:04:56 -0700 From: Danielle Subject: University Challenge on drugs I have two vinyl White Albums. Neither of them have numbers. Just thought I'd get that out in the open. Aaron said in response to Eb: > > np: Tricky/Angels With Dirty Faces (having more trouble warming up to > this > > one than the other two...anyone else?) > > yeah. can't put my finger on why, though. there are several songs on PMT i > just skip, whereas Angels is more homogenous in quality. and in sound, i > suppose. i just got around to buying Nearly God, and i've been reaching > for that a lot more. Am I the only person who *loves* Maxinquaye - more than Pre Millenium Tension, and way more than Nearly God? I haven't heard Angels yet, of course... but Maxinquaye will be tough to beat. It's very dear to me. > and why is "Broken Homes" the single? it's awful. I cordially disagree. :) I like hearing it on the radio very much. (Eb's theory is that it kills PJ's 'charisma', but I don't know if that's really the point.) > now, i got the new Massive Attack for the (past) Tricky connection and i > like it a lot. are the other two albums similar? I think someone's already said this, but no, not really. There are a lot of Protection/Maxinquaye crossovers, of course (two albums with the lyrics 'seduce me, dress me up in Stussy' - it could only be Tricky's influence), but I think Mezzanine is a lot darker than the other two (not that either are bundles of joy) - it has much less to recommend it in the way of 'groove', but more in the way of atmosphere... In any case, Horace Andy is obviously a god of some kind, and they were absosmurfing brilliant when I saw them on June 18, so bugger Richard Ashcroft (I don't care what you say Ebby, that's a *weird* double bill). Go and see 'em in a town near you. Susan said: > Again, I guess what I'm saying is- it's NOT THE DRUGS, nor is it the shoes > :). In the case of the Spice Girls, I'm pleased to say that it *is* the shoes. ;) And continued: > People who > speak of casual cocaine use or casual heroin use, however, are IMO always > self-deluded, as I can't think of a single instance where people were > actually -able- to do these drugs more than once or twice and not become > addicted. This is really rather irrelevant, but my friend Richard said he stopped using cocaine occasionally because it made him 'talk like Danielle does normally'. He recommended that I never try it. *Ever*. ;) Oh, and more generally on the drug discussion: um, yeah. What Susan said. The fact that James was on University Challenge in 1984 tickles me *no end*! I bet that - all unwittingly - I watched you win it, James! (Yeah, so I was nine. But I was a geeky child.) Funnily enough, a week or so ago I spent a great deal of time trying to remember the UC theme with some friends. We eventually came up with it, but not before a brief foray into Follyfoot ('grow, grow, the lightning tree...') and the Onedin Line. In any case, you only have to sing that initial descending 'ding ding ding!' in my direction to make me giggle, lately... Danielle, ever trivial in the face of serious discussion NP a comforting fan heater ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:02:40 -0400 From: tanter Subject: Re: Bambi At 01:42 AM 7/2/1998 -0700, Eb wrote: >For those interested: Dan Bern plays LA on the 8th, at the same club >(Luna Park) where Fred Frith and Marc Ribot recently performed. DB must be on tour--he played here last month (or was it May?) and he's coming again late this month or in August. Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 09:04:18 -0400 From: tanter Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #244 At 11:00 PM 7/1/1998 +0100, candlabra@lewiston.com wrote: >Pot? Har!! By the time the Beatles moved over to pot, they were already >experienced amphetamine users. This fact has been played down, yet >everyone remembers the stories of how the Beatles had to play for hours >a night in Germany, and the only way for them to manage that was to pop pills >(hmm...now that puts a whole new meaning to the term "pop music" ). >One of the reasons they took to pot so avidly was that it helped them break >away from their speed habit (check the cover of "Beatles for Sale" - dudes >look like they are in serious crash-and-burn mode)! That's a good point that I hadn't thought about--Miles does talk about speed but he glosses over it but emphasizes the pot and harder drugs. I suppose that's because the focus of the book is the later years. Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:27:26 -0500 From: mbrage@surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu (Michael Brage) Subject: Mr. Sean Lennon and Julian Terrence wrote: > >I've heard snippets of Sean Lennon's latest album and I don't know if I >should be buying it or making fun of it. >Could one of you-all make up my mind for me? > I can't answer the Sean question, but Julian's new record "Photograph Smile" is certainly his best effort, IMHO. Julian relies heavily on his father influences on this venture. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:25:11 -0700 From: "Partridge, John" Subject: little this, little that Three things: 1. Susan's signature 2. Dan Simmons' Hyperion 3. Mervyn Peake Numero uno: Many of the listmembers here use clever excerpts of Robyn's material for signatures. They're always evocative and oddly apropos and I've always enjoyed them for those qualities. Recently the spotlight focused on "Love on ya" and I can't resist comment: this is by far the most strikingly visual of the Robyn sigs and since Wafflehead is nearly literal in its imagery, every time I see this signature it recalls Jodie Foster's first (and last encounter) with the poor fellow one cell down from Hannibal Lecter. (No need to argue, kids! It's a carpet cleaner *and* a dessert topping!) Numero secundo: I just finished Hyperion and was really depressed. I used to be a voracious SF reader and friends of mine with similar tastes had talked Hyperion up quite a bit. Unfortunately the author is 1) an ignoramus (e.g., it's "Ride of the Valkyries" not "Flight of the Valkyries"; Templars are Christians and have *nothing* to do with tree-worshipping druids); 2) deriviative (e.g., multiple rip-offs of Orson Scott Card and the crummy hack who wrote Necromancer); and 3) a very weak writer (I apoligize for not giving more specific support to this point but I neglected to commit the cliches to memory). This is a clumsy Frankenstein of the detective genre, the spy-thriller genre, and the SF genre. Uno beero por favoro: This forum has seen discussion about Mervyn Peake in the past. Here follows a (lengthy I'm afraid) poem whose first half is amazingly robynesque (though the causal arrow really points the other way). The Hideous Root A plumber appeared by the light of the Moon And sang like the grinding of brakes To his wife, who made answer, which, though out of tune And aesthetically full of mistakes Was sweet in his ear, for he knew what it meant She was waiting for him in their wickerwork tent. The plumber, deploying the light of the Moon Permitted his body to spring Like a leaf in the wind, like a heifer in June, Like a fish, or a ball on a string - There was joy in his heart, and the prawns in his hair Felt the wind in their scales as he leapt through the air. The leap of a plumber in tropical climes Is a sight calculated to pluck At the heart-strings of those who, ahead of the times, Know skill, when they see it, from luck - O full of abandon and zest in the sight Of a plumber spread-eagled in amorous flight. When the plumber had landed, his echoes had died Through the forest, and he was alone With his shadow, his passion, his prawns and his pride And his suitcase from Marelybone. Above him the trees with their heliotrope fruit Reflected their sheen on his tropical suit. His tropical suit, that he made long ago In his bachelor days, 'neath a tree With his needle and cotton aglint in the glow Of a sunset that sat on the sea - The suit that enriched seven months of his life In the making thereof for the eye of a wife. And a wife soon enough had landed on the scene, She had watched him one evening with thrills, His suit in the starlight was purple and green And was garnished with tassels and frills. On his shimmering sleeves there were crescents and moons And his chest was embroidered with knives, forks and spoons. His collar was seaweed dragged out of the sea All golden and shiny and wet. His hat was an elephant's ear, that could be Twisted up like a fresh serviette That is perched on the table when very clean guests Are invited to dinner with studs in their vests. Now that the very same evening (the evening she saw Him appear in his tropical suit) She had stood silhouetted against the white shore, In her had was the Hideous Root - The Root, but for which he might never have known Anything could be worse than the face of his OWN. But O it WAS worse, it was worse than a dream Of a gargoyle coiled up in a fight With itself, whom it bites, and decides that each scream Is not its by some face in the night Far worse was this Hideous Root, that she carried At the side of her face, even thought she was married And O, to the plumber, as lovely she is As a rose on the brow of a fawm. Or a dewdrop that gurgles in aqueous bliss, In tremulous light of the dawn. How gorgeous she was, he remembered that day On the sands, when he wooed her and took her away. 'But the Root,' he had murmured, 'the Root, my most sweet! Must it SHARE in our marital life?' She had smirked like a fairy and wriggled her feet Then replied, 'You must know that a wife Has her secrets, my dear, and this Root is my friend - Be patient with me, though you can't understand.' The plumber remembered the pride he had known In taking her into his arms Though she still held the Root very close to the bone Which confused the deploy of his charms But O there was pride in his promise to never Refer to the Root, though he clutch it forever. He entered the glade with a bounce of such joy That the serviette hat on his head Was blown through the air though he'd fixewd it with gloy To his ears which were lilac and red. It stuck in a tree and a bird with thick legs Jumped inside with a bang and laid thirty-three eggs. When he came to the wickerwork tent he gave cry As before (like the grinding of brakes) And peered through the wickerwork door with one eye To observe the reaction that shakes The frame of a loving and sensitive spouse When the cry of a husband vibrates through the house. But O! the Black Horror! the Sharp Disillusion! The grim realistical Fact! She was there, it is true, but was coiled in confusion And foiled by lack of his tact. She had not been prepared for his speed, nor before Had beencaught unawares when he peered through the door. No! Never before since that day of all days When he watched her against the white shore. No! Never before, since the fire of his praise Had scalded her - never before In his life had he ever had reason to doubt (O where was the Root she was never without) That horrible, desperate Ghoul of a Root, That nightmare of twitches and twists, That riot of wrinkles from skull-piece to foot With its surfeit of ankles and fists, That coiling, incurable, knobbled and scarred Monstrosity measuring nearly a yard. As he looked through the wickerwood what should he spy But his wife in a whirlpool of speed When she stopped to draw breath he could see with one eye She was very distracted indeed - She had lost her Rediculous Root and he saw That without it her beauty was never no more The Root which she held in the grip of her paw As a foil to her negative charms The Root that would heave with her every snore As it lay through the night in her arms O the qualms that now racked him, the Root being gone Made hay of his pride in a beauty now flown. For ah, in her terrible moments of rest He could see she was frightful indeed The Terrible Root that had helped to invest Her face with the bloom of her breed Was missing! And she, being glad of a mate Was searching for it at a hideous rate. The plumber was mortified, hesitant, full Of deep terror, but suddenly saw The Root on the grass 'neat the bright tree and all His confidence flowered once more He grasped it and cried to his lady within: 'Your Root, my beloved, your Root's in my fire.' At the sound, like a meteor that streams through a cloud His mate had burst out of the tent As a knife runs through the butter, she sailed witha loud And shattering sound as she went Through the wickerwork wall of their dwelling, to land By her husband who held the Great Root in his hand. SHe snatched at the Hideous Root in a wild Unladylike manner, and squeezed The hideous thing in her arms like a child, Beside her the Root by the rule Of stark relativity lowered the wood O'er the eyes of the plumber, and she was once more An ornament made for his praise The Root with its mystical powers of yore Resolved his ineligant ways And a vision of all that her beauty had been Returned to enchant the connubial scene. But now, double padlocked, the jubilant wife Of the plumber has chained to her side The Hideous Root which she guards with her life. For what can more furnish a bride With tranquility, faith and a pride in her lot Than a foil of the kind that the lady has got. And from then until now the thrice halcyon days Flow by them, the lady be-charmed With the Root at her belt while he floods her with praise In a manner ornate and unharmed And yet - at the back of his mind sometimes tirs, A dislike of That Root and that secret of hers. by Mervyn Peake ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:49:43 +0000 From: Andyjames <9337381b@student.gla.ac.uk> Subject: MAD LIBS.... You said creativity counts, so I've only used one 'real' pop star name here.... Hi Alphonse, my name is Anaconda and I work at the Lobe-Stroking Emporium in the same mall as you. My friend Fedora Malmsteen and me (her real name is Fedora FRUITSTAIN but she spells it that way cos of Yngwie Malmsteen) always see you and we think you are TOTALLY CURRIED-BANANA-FLAVOURED!!!! I remembered your name from your Custard-Filled Viking Helmet and I looked you up on the Badger-Scratcher's Pages of the Stoat-Slapper's Gazette. That is a nicely carpeted picture of you. I don't know much about Wilting Tentacle's music 'cept for that song 'Oooh Yeah, Mah Funky Colostomy, Babeh', but Fedora Malmsteen and I are going to his Chiropody, Wart-Poking and Rock'n'Roll Extravaganza next week, cause you're going to keep his supports sufficiently oiled. Do you have a hot sardine for Fedora Malmsteen so she'll stop gibboning you? She thinks you're like Dr Spoontickler from 'Attack of the 100-Foot Cheesegraters from Basingstoke', but I think you're WAY lumpier than that. Dr Spoontickler was pretty handy with an orthopaedic condom, though. That's my favorite movie, cause I make my own earwax candles, too. Okay, so I'll see you at the de-greasing stall, and I hope you don't drop your badgers. xoxoxoxo' Anaconda I'ts awfully considerate of you to think of me here And I'm most obliged to you for making it clear That I'm not here.... Andy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 11:52:49 +0100 (BST) From: Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer Subject: Re: OTC/NMH European tour (no Robyn) >>>>> "Gene" == Gene Hopstetter, writes: Gene> From blue-rose, the Elephant 6 discussion list. where does one subscribe to this? cheers, Stewart - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 13:12:40 -0700 From: Mike Runion Subject: NMH Dates For anyone interested in catching Neutral Milk Hotel during a short jaunt up the East Coast, here are some dates that were recently posted to the main NMH site: 22 July Washington DC Black Cat 23 July Philadelphia PA Pontiac Grille 24 July Cambridge MA Middle East 25 July New York NY Bowery Ballroom 26 July Hoboken NJ Maxwell's 28 July Montreal, Quebec, Canada TBA 29 July Toronto, Ontario, Canada Horseshoe Tavern 30 July Rochester NY Bug Jar I just caught them on June 29 down here in Orlando and the show was superb (albeit short). Well recommended. A couple of new songs were performed as well...I also managed to snag the setlist and made a fair tape of the show. Ob-Robyn-Content: I wore my green upside-down RH duck shirt to the show, and while perusing the merch, the guy there selling stuff only saw the front (no words or name) and was like "Cool, Robyn Hitchcock". I was too oblivious to comment, but my wife remarked that it was the first time she'd been with me and someone had recognized the shirt/Robyn. - -- Mike Runion Cocoa, FL, USA /******************************************************************\ | VCM: http://www5.palmnet.net/~mrrunion/cones.htm | | Fegmaps: http://www5.palmnet.net/~mrrunion/fegmaps | | Spoken Word Tape: http://www5.palmnet.net/~mrrunion/wordtape.htm | \******************************************************************/ "Wait a minute. Time for a Planetary Sit-In!" - Julian Cope ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 14:10:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Gross Subject: Hyperion (was Re: little this, little that) On Thu, 2 Jul 1998, Partridge, John wrote: > Three things: > 1. Susan's signature > 2. Dan Simmons' Hyperion > 3. Mervyn Peake [snip] > Numero secundo: I just finished Hyperion and was really depressed. > I used to be a voracious SF reader and friends of mine with > similar tastes had talked Hyperion up quite a bit. Uh, oh.... You can see what's coming.... > Unfortunately > the author is 1) an ignoramus (e.g., it's "Ride of the Valkyries" > not "Flight of the Valkyries" True, but hardly enough to brand someone an ignoramus. (Oh, and speaking of branding things, you should have branded _Hyperion_ a "Frankenstein's monster," not a "Frankenstein.") > Templars are Christians and have > *nothing* to do with tree-worshipping druids) Yes, the real, historical Templars *were* Christians. Simmons's fictional Templars (who aren't really Druids, either, and the historical Druids weren't tree-worshippers, but let that pass) seem to be named that because their secretive, mystical brotherhood resembles the popular image of the Templars. In other words, Simmons probably just thought it was a nice evocative name. There is no textual evidence that Simmons thought the historical Templars worshipped trees. > 2) deriviative Say rather, employing deliberate homages to other writers and genres. (Though if you're hostile you can always label a literary homage a "rip-off," much as a band's change in direction can always be labelled a "sellout.") > (e.g., multiple rip-offs of Orson Scott Card I've never read Card, so I have to concede the possibility that you may be right on this point. > and the crummy hack who > wrote Necromancer) Oh, my GAWD.... > and 3) a very weak writer (I apoligize for > not giving more specific support to this point but I neglected > to commit the cliches to memory). The problem with calling him a "very weak writer" isn't just your lack of examples; the accusation itself is too vague. *How* is he a weak writer? (Other than being a derivative ignoramus, I mean.) Where do you think he's weak -- plot, prose, characterization, setting, etc. -- and why? I thought that _Hyperion_ was a tremendously inventive and entertaining book. Of course it's not to everyone's taste, but what is? BTW, this little thread inspired me to pull out my copy of _Hyperion_ to read over lunch. I opened it at random and found that I'd turned directly to the section J. Kat. quoted (p.160 of the paperback). Spooky, eh? Okay, maybe not.... - --Chris np: What, you don't think I'd write about music, do you? ______________________________________________________________________ Christopher Gross On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog. chrisg@gwu.edu ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #247 *******************************