From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #237 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Wednesday, June 24 1998 Volume 07 : Number 237 Today's Subjects: ----------------- re: neat neat neat [tanter ] Re: folk music again(Carl Palmer content) [dlang ] Re: disgust-o-fic and Poppy Z. Brite (sub-zero RH content) [dlang ] Re: CD buying on the net [Viccicraig@aol.com] Film Oldies Quiz [M R Godwin ] re: Poppy Z. Brite (no RH content) [MCINTYRE@pa.msu.edu] Re: Homer's musical tastes [JH3 ] Re: Film Oldies Quiz [tanter ] Re: Film Oldies Quiz [Viccicraig@aol.com] Re: Film Oldies Quiz [tanter ] Nick Drake/Doris Troy/George Harrison [Tom Clark ] Who are you that is so wise in the ways of starfucking? ["Capitalism Blow] Fwd: Who are you that is so wise in the ways of starfucking? ["Gene Hopst] Re: Who are you that is so wise in the ways of starfucking? ["Bret" Subject: re: neat neat neat I for one would find it quicker to go to the store and buy a CD than have to wade through a web site to find the music to download, then wait for the thing to download and then transfer to a CD. It sounds like a lot of hassle. Of course, CDs will have to come down in price if this technology takes off, but I can't believe that downloading really will become more popular. I go to where the record stores are anyway, so that wouldn't be an issue. Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:21:21 -1850 From: dlang Subject: Re: folk music again(Carl Palmer content) The Quail crowed >"Robyn Sings .>Songs of the Bothy Band," available only in South Wales on Green Vinyl. . . >you all have *that* I assume. . . . Of course we do, its as common as muck, I have lots of spare copies if anyones interested .Carl Palmer played spoons and kazoo on most tracks.Now mention something we HAVEN"T heard.......... dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 23:08:02 -1850 From: dlang Subject: Re: disgust-o-fic and Poppy Z. Brite (sub-zero RH content) the grossman quotheth >Of course reading Poppy never meant you had to leave Storm Constantine in the first place.... The only reason i've left Storm is a can't find any more books of hers at the library and i'm too broke to go out buying any ( also she is a bit variable as well, so I only like some of her stuff). Regarding Poppy's more lurid output , you wrote >BUT, I can't agree with automatically labelling anything like that "sick." I think it's possible to write about anything, no matter how horrible, in a valid literary way. (Whether or not PZB succeeded at this is another question, of course.) Now if Brite wrote as though she got her sexual thrills, or expected her audience to get theirs, from graphic descriptions of torture and mutilation, then I would agree with the "sick" label. On the other hand, if she writes to evoke the horror of murder and make us understand and sympathize with the victims' plight, I wouldn't find that sick at all. I wouldn't automatically label descriptions of violence "sick " anymore than thee Grosser m'dear, its just that that was the feeling it gave me , that this description unnecessarily dwelt on the gross destruction of a human being, to such an extent that it produced a feeling of revulsion in me . What I sensed was that she was describing it just for the sake of it, as if piling on detail after sickening detail would somehow prove something and make her writing better . It felt like the written equivalent of one of those over the top horror movies where the blood and guts is so prolific that you almost have to laugh, because its so unreal, but this was *not* funny to me , it was just nasty although I don't know if the Z had a sexual intent or not, but it put the willies up me I can tell yer. I certainly didn't think that she really wanted me to sympathise with the victim either ,as she's not a writer ( at least for me anyhow) who makes you empathise with her characters. Anyhow, I don't think Poppy's work is Art .I think that a lot of writers now just write ultra gory stuff because there's an audience for it and because it gives them a certain notoriety. Ozzie Osbourne used to bite the heads off chickens , budgies or even ( shudder ) Quails and to me ,Poppy is the literary equivalent . However, I wouldn't ban this stuff, I'm opposed to censorship, but I don't like to think of the potential influence it can have some peoples personality and actions. Slightly off the point, but its amazing how these really violent images stay in my mind when I read them or accidentally see something gross. Last year a kid at school brought up from the net this awful picture of a girl strung up on meat hooks , i don't know whether it was real or not, and I only saw it for a very short time, but, it made me really depressed all weekend and in two minds about the validity of the internet if it was that easy to access this shit." That post " did much the same thing again ( in a more minor way) over the last few days too. Now if an old fart like me can be really distressed by something when i have 46 years of seeing various wars, famines, crashes and episodes of the gong show under my belt then what's it going to do to a young kid who can access it pretty much at will, although i know that its not that easy to access some of these hard core sites either and a kid might surf for a long time and come up with a nasty hardly ever. Still, its a worry, just a little one , but there nevertheless............. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:23:41 +0100 From: Tony.Blackman@sita.int Subject: Was Neat Neat Neat..... Marcy a dit: >I for one would find it quicker to go to the store and buy a CD than have >to wade through a web site to find the music to download, then wait for the >thing to download and then transfer to a CD. It sounds like a lot of >hassle. Of course, CDs will have to come down in price if this technology >takes off, but I can't believe that downloading really will become more >popular. I go to where the record stores are anyway, so that wouldn't be >an issue. I'll have to agree with Marcy here. For me, it's a mixture of convenience, collecting rarities and the thrill of picking up something you're looking for next to nothing in a second hand shop. If I've got to search the Web using a search engine for something I want to buy and have to wade through the extraneous rubbish that a search will throw up then I doubt if I'll bother, but then, of course, I am inherently lazy. If you want someone to know the URL of your download site without having to actively search for it then surely that's going to involve some kind of promotion exercise? If you think about this then music should be the last media industry to suffer? Surely magazines and book distribution should be hit more? It must be easier to "publish" on the Web where there's no significant outlay required other than that use to access the Web? What appears to be happening (in the U.K. at least) is the reverse, there are more and more magazines etc. being launched every month. Admittedly it is a cut-throat market and some don't last more than a couple of months but is growing.... Another thing to consider is that with countries other than the U.S. where you will have easy access to free local-rate telephone calls (unlike here where I only know one person who has free off-peak Internet access due to the fact that his local ISP has a limited number of line on the local cable company), the telecommunications costs of searching for a down-loadable title and the subsequent download will add immensely to the cost..... I've got a lot of time for Alan McGee (I'd have more if he wasn't involved with Oasis) as I think he's been right on the button more than once before but I think he's peaking too soon here. Sure, kids are getting more technologically advanced and perhaps they are the mass target for record companies (I suppose the Spice Girls go to prove that) but the demographics are changing.... Once upon a time people had a short youth and were soon involved in marriage and children and were old ahead of their time and had much more responsibility at an early age. Times have changed, nowadays it's not unusual to find people in their forties who still haven't grown up in the respect that they don't adhere to the stereotypes of the previous generation and who spent fortunes on their music collection. I have lots of friends of a similar age to myself who spend a lot of money on CDs (and let's face it, if they're not married with kids, their disposable income is greater than most 5-15 year olds) and I'd say that 75% can't even turn a PC on let alone download anything from the 'net and burn it onto a CD. Also, the way that the run of "best-of's" and compilations that have been so popular is also indicative of the fact that people keep buying music for a lot longer than was the case with previous generations. It was said that the world-wide recession was due to the upsurge in sales of compilations etc. but I think it also has a lot more to do with more people buying music who are younger and now older than ever and just wanting to hear the songs that they hear "promoted" on the radio. I think that the record shop's got much more life left in it yet..... Feel free to disagree at your will..... Obligatory Robyn content: If Robyn shunned traditional record deals to promote himself and "sell" on the 'net, how many people do we know that wouldn't have access to his products? They'd all be knocking on our doors asking us to download stuff and burn it onto CD for them....? Alan McGee's future seems a long way off to me. I personally think Alan McGee's an old baldy bloke who's recently got into computers and has just seen what they can do and got a bit carried away.... Tony np "Neat Neat Neat" through headphones at work trying not to work very hard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:28:39 EDT From: HSatterfld@aol.com Subject: Homer's musical tastes "JH3" exclaimed: >Homer's favorite song is "The Joker" by The Steve Miller Band When Moe throws Homer out of the bar in the "cris-atunity" episode, he also takes Homer's favorite song out of the jukebox, "It's Raining Men". (Although he also has a Starland Vocal Band tattoo.) "Why do you need new bands? Everyone knows rock attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." - Homer Simpson in 'Homerpalooza' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:43:09 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Re: folk music again > Amadain writes: > >I will admit tho, that I am not familiar with anything Robyn has done which > >could fairly be called a jig. On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, The Great Quail wrote: > Hmmm . . . "Muriel's Hoof/Route of the Clones" is the closest, I suppose. "Rout", I think. The "Sandra's been to nightmare school" interlude in SHHBO is a jig, I think, but only lasts a few lines. - - Mike Godwin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:09:49 EDT From: Viccicraig@aol.com Subject: Re: CD buying on the net In a message dated 98-06-24 02:12:46 EDT, gondola@deltanet.com writes: >It's worth noting (esp. to a NZer like you, James) that a recent CASSETTE >operation like this pretty much failed here, wherein there was a machine >(it looked a lot like a video game) in a corner of the record store and you >could program your own mix tapes drawing from an installed database of >songs. Didn't seem to catch on at all. I forget the name of the company >now...anyone remember more details? hmmm i havent seen one of those in like a decade, i think its failing point was twofold.......first cost, the songs were quite expensive, instead of a flat rate for each song, it depended on some rating system they developed.....two, the catalog to choose from was extremely poor.....thats all i remember really..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:32:31 +0100 (BST) From: M R Godwin Subject: Film Oldies Quiz After all this discussion of the latest Top 100 films, I opened up my tattered copy of "Halliwell's 100" and put together this quiz. All answers refer to really old movies. Each question quotes a line or two of dialogue from a film. "Title" asks for the name of the film. "Original Author" asks for the author of the original book, play, story etc on which the film was based. "Director" asks for the name of the director of the film. "Name of Character" asks for the _part_ being played (e.g. for John Wayne in Stagecoach, the answer would be that he played "The Ringo Kid") "Actor / Actress" asks for the name of the person playing the part (e.g. for the Ringo Kid in Stagecoach, the answer would be "John Wayne"). A couple of films include odd questions which fall outside this scheme. Oh yes, and one question has a direct Robyn Hitchcock link. Which one, and what is the link? Amusez-vous bien, mes petits choux! - - Mike Godwin THE QUESTIONS: 1. - Odds fish, Percy, you're brainless, spineless and useless, but you do know clothes. (Title, Original Author) 2. - Last night I dreamed I went to Manderley again. (Title, Director) 3. - In Switzerland they had brotherly love, 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. (Title, Actor) 4. - The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. (Title, Original Author) 5. - Where's the rest of me? (Title, Actor) 6. - It wasn't the airplanes, it was beauty killed the beast. (Title, Number of Wonder of the World) 7. - General Smith reports a gas attack. - Tell him to take a teaspoon of bicarbonate soda in half a glass of water. (Title, Name of Character giving reply) 8. - I wasn't speaking to you, I was speaking to Elvira. She's here, Ruth, a few yards away from you. - Yes, dear, I can see her distinctly, under the piano with a zebra. (Title, Original Author) 9. - Quick, Watson, the needle. (Title, Actor) 10 - (In French) Is it Eurydice or Death you seek? - Les deux. (Title, Director) 11 - Mother of God, is this the end of Rico? (Title, Actor) 12 - What do they think I am, dumb or somethin'? Why, I make more money than Calvin Coolidge, put together! (Title, movie innovation on which the plot is based) 13 - You used to be big. - I am big. It's pictures that got small. (Title, Director) 14 - It says you were shot six times in the tabloids. - Not true, he didn't come anywhere near my tabloids. (Title, Actress, Actor) 15 - All this yakkin's getting us nowhere. I'm changing my vote to not guilty. (Title) 16 - Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped. (Title, Name of Character) 17 - He looks as though he knows what I look like without my petticoats on. (Title, Name of Character) 18 - I've met every king in Europe. - Now you've met two aces in Bottleneck. (Title, Actress giving reply) 19 - You go - we belong dead. (Title) 20 - I am trying to recover an ornament that has, shall we say, been mislaid. (Title, Actor _and_ Name of Character) END OF QUIZ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:38:48 -0400 From: MCINTYRE@pa.msu.edu Subject: re: Poppy Z. Brite (no RH content) >From: dlang >I certainly didn't think that she really wanted me to sympathise with >the victim either ,as she's not a writer ( at least for me anyhow) who >makes you empathise with her characters. Oh my, what Poppy books have you been reading? You couldn't empathise with Ghost, _Lost Souls_, or _Drawing Blood_? I thought characterization was one of her strengths. Oh well, to each their own. John McIntyre Physics - Astronomy Domine Dept Michigan State University mcintyre@pa.msu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:09:22 -0500 From: JH3 Subject: Re: Homer's musical tastes I, and then HSatterfld@aol.com wrote: >>Homer's favorite song is "The Joker" by The Steve Miller Band >When Moe throws Homer out of the bar in the "cris-atunity" episode, >he also takes Homer's favorite song out of the jukebox, "It's Raining >Men". (Although he also has a Starland Vocal Band tattoo.) ...And don't forget he has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the recordings of Grand Funk Railroad. But check it out, "It's Raining Men" is only his favorite song *in that particular jukebox.* We're never told if "The Joker" is in the jukebox or not, are we? If it were, who knows? Personally, I think it's all part of the Vast International Heston/Hackman/Palmer Conspiracy... JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:24:04 -0400 From: tanter Subject: Re: Film Oldies Quiz >At 04:32 PM 6/24/1998 +0100, you wrote: >>Oh yes, and one question has a direct Robyn Hitchcock link. >>Which one, and what is the link? >>THE QUESTIONS: >>2. - Last night I dreamed I went to Manderley again. (Title, Director) > >Rebecca, Hitchcock (?) (also the first line of the book by Daphne Du Maurier) > >>4. - The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. (Title, >> Original Author) > >don't know title, maybe Oscar Wilde?? >> >>5. - Where's the rest of me? (Title, Actor) > >Wizard of Oz, Ray Bolger >>8. - I wasn't speaking to you, I was speaking to Elvira. She's here, Ruth, >> a few yards away from you. >> - Yes, dear, I can see her distinctly, under the piano with a zebra. >> (Title, Original Author) > > >Blithe Spirit, don't know author. (I think it's the right movie--if it's not that, it's one like it. I can almost see the scene!) >> >>9. - Quick, Watson, the needle. (Title, Actor) > >The Life of Thomas Edison (?), I can't remember the actor who played him. (I want to say Rex Harrison but that can't be right. Maybe Leslie Howard?) >> >>10 - (In French) Is it Eurydice or Death you seek? >> - Les deux. (Title, Director) >> >je ne sais pas! > >>15 - All this yakkin's getting us nowhere. I'm changing my vote to not >> guilty. (Title) >> > >Oklahoma! > >>17 - He looks as though he knows what I look like without my petticoats >> on. (Title, Name of Character) >> > >Gone With the Wind, Scarlett > >>20 - I am trying to recover an ornament that has, shall we say, been >> mislaid. (Title, Actor _and_ Name of Character) > >This sounds so familiar and I just can't place it. > >Good quiz--wish I could answer more since I've probably seen all these movies! > >Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:17:08 EDT From: Viccicraig@aol.com Subject: Re: Film Oldies Quiz In a message dated 98-06-24 12:30:57 EDT, tanter@econs.umass.edu writes: >>>15 - All this yakkin's getting us nowhere. I'm changing my vote to not >>> guilty. (Title) >>> >> >>Oklahoma! heh nahhhhhh this is 12 Angry Men ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:23:43 -0400 From: tanter Subject: Re: Film Oldies Quiz At 01:17 PM 6/24/1998 -0400, Viccicraig@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 98-06-24 12:30:57 EDT, tanter@econs.umass.edu writes: > >>>>15 - All this yakkin's getting us nowhere. I'm changing my vote to not >>>> guilty. (Title) >>>> >>> >>>Oklahoma! > >heh nahhhhhh this is 12 Angry Men True--I think in Oklahoma! they just say "not guilty!" Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 11:30:12 -0700 From: Tom Clark Subject: Nick Drake/Doris Troy/George Harrison I've been digging the backing vocals on Nick Drake's "Poor Boy" (from "Bryter Layter"), so I looked up one of the performers: Doris Troy. It turns out she did a lot of work in that era ('68-'74), and for a time released stuff on Apple records. One single was "Jacob's Ladder" b/w "Get Back". Anyone heard or have any of her releases? It seems most of her output at the time was in collaboration with George Harrison. Check out the lineup on her 1970 self titled release: Doris Troy: Lead vocals George Harrison, Eric Clapton, Steve Stills and Peter Framton (sic): Guitars Billy Preston: Keyboards Klaus Voorman: Bass Delaney & Bonnie: Percussion Ringo Starr and Andy White: Drums - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:34:28 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Who are you that is so wise in the ways of starfucking? yeah. when we were having dinner at the...uh, was "the patio" the name of that restaurant? what a dumb fucking name for a restaurant! be a cool name for a band, though. anyhow, i told the shark that, as great as his cd is, he really ought to be a stand-up comic. his response? "what am i, a clown? i'm here to fucking amuse you?" then he pulled out his revolver, and it all went downhill from there. oh, speaking of cool music festivals (which the quail and lj were...well, since my most recent enema, anyway), have you guys seen the lineup for womad?? holy smokes! you talk about astounding. and, i didn't even know this until some guy told me last week, but, it'll be the first time that the "real" womad has ever played in the u.s. and ten minutes from my house! can't beat that. capitol's robbie site is excellent. a few reviews, lyrics, background info., history. the interview with venice magazine is very good. yes, i think you're right! this works perfectly because, as russ mentioned, the last line of each verse tends to actually refer to the following verse. thanks! i can finally sleep easy. and holy moses! you folks hadn't said he was taking *requests*. did nobody request Autumn Sea or Rock Lobster? well, that was my major problem with the movie. i didn't believe it for a second. some other problems i had, in case you're not wondering. if they're broadcasting live 24/7, what in hell are they doing showing flashbacks? and, the whole "production" aspect of it (music cues, camera angles, etc.) seems to me would be wholly inappropriate. also, one thing that really bugged the fuck out of me was the cliched viewers. what in the fucking hell was that idiot in the bathtub??? how fucking stupid was that? oh man, i really could go on for quite a while, but i guess i won't. actually, the credit roll *did* include the "real" world. that's what it wants to be. it's a great concept, which, as i said, was why i was pretty excited to see it. but they didn't come anywhere close to pulling it off. oh boy. y'all do NOT want to get me started on this. no offense terry, but i think you're out to fucking lunch. how does the principle still stand? i thought the whole point of life on earth, according to christians, was to prove that we're worthy of going to heaven. if all you have to do is utter a few words after leading a miserable piece of shit life, seems to me the principle is pretty fucking weak. moreover, you completely failed to mention the flipside: all the "unbelievers" that follow their own internal code of ethics to the best of their ability, that try to change things, and make the world even a marginally better place, but don't happen to believe that christ is the savior, get to go to hell for all their trouble? you honestly think god would be that fucking petty? ok, i've probably said too much already. i go shut up now. i see godwin, having gotten his ass ejected from france, now has some free time again. seriously, are there any fegs that are even anywhere close to soccer hooliganery? it's always kind of fascinated me, because of the stereotype: the british are supposed to, well, as robyn puts it, "eat cucumber sandwiches." and watch masterpiece theather, and be quiet at wimbledon, and whatnot. but then there's this whole other, darker, side that comes out every four years. well, granted, thatcher was a pretty dark side, too. "The Dude abides"...I don't know about you, but i take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there, "The Dude," takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shesh...I sure hope he makes the finals. --The Stranger ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:46:21 -0400 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Fwd: Who are you that is so wise in the ways of starfucking? From: "Capitalism Blows" >yeah. when we were having dinner at the...uh, was "the patio" the name >of that restaurant? what a dumb fucking name for a restaurant! be a >cool name for a band, though. Ack. There once was a band in New Orleans, Louisiana in the mid-1980s called Reality Patio. Your standard mediocre cowpunk/alternative fare typical of the era. Why do I bring this up? A couple of their members eventually formed a (much hated, god-forsaken, and miserable) band called Better Than Ezra (and you thought *Reality Patio* was a bad name?). Ack. Ack. I wretch even writing the name. Hate that band. Hate them hate them. I lived with BTE's first manager while in college, too, before that bottom-feeder record label (BMG?) picked them up and made a billion off of them (true story: BMG said, "You spend enough money you can make any band popular. Why don't we try it on BTE?" Another true story: BTE guitarist to said manager: "How can we get more alternative college kids to come to our shows?" Manager: "Learn some Dinosaur, Jr. songs." Seems it worked...). Their bass player used to be hot for my ex-girlfriend's roomate, too. (Yeah, I know, this is getting tawdry, but I can't purge the image of BTE's future bass player kissing my girlfriend's best friend in the French Quarter.) Help me please. I could rant some more, but I will stop now. I have countless other reasons to hate BTE. ++++++++ Gene Hopstetter, Jr. + Online Design Guy http://extra.newsguy.com/~genehop/ ++ All hail Brak! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 14:00:14 -0500 From: "Bret" Subject: Re: Who are you that is so wise in the ways of starfucking? > >I wretch even writing the name. Hate that band. Hate them hate them. I >lived with BTE's first manager while in college, too, before that >bottom-feeder record label (BMG?) picked them up and made a billion off of >them (true story: BMG said, "You spend enough money you can make any band >popular. Why don't we try it on BTE yet another true story: Back when I worked in the 'industry' (I now have a real job) I once got a call (the record, bio, and one-sheet were already hanging around) asking me (the company really, but it was my job there) to pick up the BTE record (I forget what is was at the time) so I gave it a litsen.............it still sits in the box where it landed in when was that, 1991?........it was swill then, it's swill now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 15:36:13 -0400 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: folk music again (Carl Palmer content) >Of course we do, its as common as muck, I have lots of spare copies if >anyones interested .Carl Palmer played spoons and kazoo on most >tracks.Now mention something we HAVEN"T heard.......... Oh come on! You just said that to work "Carl Palmer" into the discussion. If you *really* had a copy, you would know that Helen Percival plays spoons and kazoos. . . . - --Quail - ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | Literature Site - The Libyrinth: TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth www.rpg.net/quail | Vampire Site - New York by Night: riverrun Discordian Society | www.rpg.net/quail/NYBN 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:52:03 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: CD Burners/Net Recording Well, this has become quite a tangled web of opinions on a lot of different points all stemming from a cluster of related issues, making a cohesive reply nearly impossible. Here's my stab at addressing some of this, though: First, I'm going to moderately disagree with a lot of the people who think that it's too soon to get all worked up about the possible future of a mostly web-based record industry. Yeah, sure, a lot of people still don't have computers or CD burners. But, 10 years ago, a lot of people didn't have CD players, either. Now, very few people who could be considered potential consumers of prerecorded music are without at least one CD player. Also, CDs are, without a doubt, the industry standard. This sounds like a "no duh" kind of statement, but, 15 years ago, it might have seemed unlikely that this would be true. And, of course, 5 years ago, hardly anyone would imagine doing anything at all with the Internet, much less buying huge amounts of stuff of off it. Obviously, it has yet to become "the norm," but I think it's shortsighted to believe that this won't become the case. I mean, I'm only 28, but I can easily remember when touch tone phones and ATM machines were exotic. Really, it wasn't all that long ago. To a 16 year old, however, this would probably seem ridiculous. And, while it may be true that 75% of 40-somethings can't even turn on a computer (although I kind of doubt that that's actually true), this percentage must decrease dramatically (to almost nothing, in fact) by the time you get to 21 year olds. And, for those people of generations older-than-X, the pressure to be moderately computer savvy must be tremendous. Heck, even my grandfather, at 93, was feeling that he ought to at least have me show him a little bit about the internet. Anyway. . . yes, of course, there will still be a need to have actual stores that people can go into; probably even record stores, and maybe even video rental stores. Definitely grocery stores. Almost certainly clothing stores. But I can also see how the increase in demand for certain jobs (web site designers, people in shipping and receiving at warehouses, UPS drivers) will just boom. As far as the affordability of CD burners goes, well, they just keep getting cheaper and cheaper. You can get a pretty slow one (2X write) for about $400 (including software), and a 4XW isn't that much more expensive (around $500). This will continue to drop to probably $250 for a 16XW by 2001 (huge guess there, but it'll happen). Blank CDs are only, like, $2 a piece. It may well be more convenient for some people to just drop by a CD store on the way home and spend $17.97 for the "Titanic" soundtrack, but I think a lot of people would choose the convenience of just downloading and burning it onto CD-R. It'll probably only be a few more years before choosing between a store-bought CD and a downloaded CD is a 50-50 choice for the average consumer, just like CDs vs. cassettes was in 1991 or so. I also just wanted to cast my vote as someone who has been dreaming, for 8 to 10 years now, of the day when recordable CD technology would be reasonably priced (and I guess I've just decided that time has come, as I'll be getting a CD burner in the next couple of weeks), which is to say that my "demand" wasn't created by the current buzz about "supply." It's such an obviously good idea! So many people like to make mix tapes, but we also hate the cassette as a storage medium (degradation of sound quality; inability to directly access individual tracks; poor durability). CD-R's have been a long time coming, as far as I'm concerned. What else? Oh, right. Sure, the "thrill of the hunt" is a factor here. But I'm even more thrilled to actually get something that I want, which I've found to be more often the case since becoming an internet consumer. I've shopped for music on both coasts of the U.S. and all over London, but I've never been able to find some of the stuff that I've found through online stores. Of course, there has to be an actual place for people to bring their used music to, otherwise there would be nothing to enter into the database that the consumer will then search through online. For this reason, it's hard to imagine the used record store ever dying out completely. People will still bring in their CDs to sell, and these same people will probably enjoy browsing through the new arrival bins, getting to peruse the merchandise hours (or maybe a day or two) before anyone online will get the chance. So, hopefully, a store like mine will survive while a place like Sam Goody/Musicland will suffer due to lameness (i.e., not stocking used CDs and having a small selection of overpriced new CDs). Well, I'm just plum tuckered out. I've now put in way more than my $.02 worth, but it's a compelling topic for me. - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #237 *******************************