From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #235 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, June 23 1998 Volume 07 : Number 235 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Neat Neat Neat [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: is the internet killing the music business? [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: Neat Neat Neat [Condiment Spice ] Re: Neat Neat Neat [Eb ] PDX/Donner Party [Paul Montagne ] Re: Neat Neat Neat [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: Fwd: Neat Neat Neat [Eb ] Contest!!! ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: Hitchcock and Demme [MARKEEFE@aol.com] Re: Neat Neat Neat ["JH3" ] Fwd: Contest!!! ["Gene Hopstetter, Jr." ] coupla thoughts on this year's shows ["Capitalism Blows" ] Rob Rob Rob [Eb ] Re: coupla thoughts on this year's shows [Bayard ] Re: Neat Neat Neat [amadain ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:16:11 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: Neat Neat Neat >I keep reading this hype about downloading music and burning your own CDs, >and how the Internet is killing the record industry and the record store as >we know them. I dunno...the Net certainly could take a *bite* out of the >record industry, yes, but I think there's just too much of a fetish of >"ownership" to make record stores/labels entirely obsolete. Folks like >having their neat little record collection, reading their neat little CD >booklets, filing their neat little CDs and showing their neat little >collections to their neat little friends. You just don't get that physical >sense of "it's mine!" from storing a file on your computer, or having a >generic home-burned CD with a downloaded computer-printout cover. It >doesn't feel like the real thing, somehow. Yeah, the whole CD-burning technology won't have an impact on record sales, for the reasons you stated. (...I hope these are not famous last words!) One interesting thing I have noticed is that Sony has really been pushing the mini-disc as "the new thing". The question is, will they be the next CD or the next 8-track? >Then again, I'm not real >enthusiastic about homemade cassettes either for the same reason, and I >know that others devote hours and hours to such things. > If you are referring to bootleg tapes, then that is a totally different sort of thing, of course. You can't get the latest Robyn gig at Tower. As for people who spin copies of official CD's for their own collection, I personally do this but I also spend most of my income on store bought CD's. Of course, I'd much rather have CD's than taped copies, but I can only afford to buy so many CD's, and thanks to home recording I can listen to more music. One of the other great things about home recording is the advent of home multitrack recorders, which have now developed in to digital hard disk recorders. It's a cool thing to be able to make your own demos (of high quality) for relatively little expense. >As for Internet CD retailers, just the *cost* and *time* seem to be >obstacles. If I can go to Tower and buy a CD for $12, why should I buy a CD >on the Internet that will cost $13 or $14 plus $3 postage, that will also >take two weeks to arrive? Not too enticing for me. I suppose the Net is >good for ordering rarely-stocked independent releases, however. And it's >neat that you can download sound samples from the retail sites to "test >drive" an album, but you can just take that information and drive to the >record store instead.... > >Eb Right, it's much more fun to go to a store and flip through the stacks, then to point and click! Unless I'm looking for a specific, hard to find album, then I prefer the good ol' record stores. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:13:10 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: is the internet killing the music business? I seriously can't imagine any other world in the near future (5-15 years?) but one in which pretty much every imaginable form of media-based entertainment will be available through the internet, which will probably be piped into the same big, flatscreen digital "monitor" on which everyone will watch be watching TV and playing video games around the family room. There will still be record stores, because many people will still prefer the sound of vinyl and because some music will be really obscure and/or out-of-print. People will still go to the movies, because the movie theaters make so much money off of concession stand sales. Video rental stores, though? Hard to imagine! I'm guessing everything will be pay-per-view or pay-per-listen; probably with some means of purchasing the rights to permanently download movies/albums onto whatever storage medium/media exists at the time. That's just what makes sense to me. I don't even know if I like the idea, but I can see it coming. - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:29:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Condiment Spice Subject: Re: Neat Neat Neat > As for Internet CD retailers, just the *cost* and *time* seem to be > obstacles. If I can go to Tower and buy a CD for $12, why should I buy a CD > on the Internet that will cost $13 or $14 plus $3 postage, that will also > take two weeks to arrive? Not too enticing for me. I suppose the Net is > good for ordering rarely-stocked independent releases, however. Indeed, this last bit is where it is at; things you'll never get at your Tower-type chain. In fact, I was in a Tower records yesterday. There was a enthralling talk of the virtues of Pink Floyd, in all its post-high school glory. On top of *that*, I was subject to the start of a discussion of "old punk" (circa late-80s, yer know) and "new punk" (the current crop). It seems that there is a significant differences in taste between these two stratums. But, beyond such sociological conditioning, I observed that the average price of a new CD is 18$. This seems like a fine case of usery. And, this seems an increase in the past year or so. But, I don't go into such places enough. Nonetheless, I could not fathom buying more than one CD at his price every five years, and only out of desperation. Their bargains were great if you needed Paoblo Cruise [sp?] discs in bulk; I pass on that. It seems so much work to avoid the majority of their stock to find the one or two CDs that might be worth buying. The small mail order thing only works well if you know what you want and the shipping is reasonable. Few companies are like this, though. Darla and Drunken Fish seem to have reasonable prices and rates. But, they are labels rather than on-line stores. over, .chris ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:33:01 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Neat Neat Neat >One interesting thing I have noticed is that Sony has really been pushing >the mini-disc as "the new thing". The question is, will they be the next CD >or the next 8-track? 8-track. >>Then again, I'm not real >>enthusiastic about homemade cassettes either for the same reason, and I >>know that others devote hours and hours to such things. > >If you are referring to bootleg tapes, then that is a totally different >sort of thing, of course. Well, sure. But I was also referring to homemade tapes of legitimate albums. I still have about 125 albums on homemade tapes, but I'm always looking to "upgrade" those to CDs or retail cassettes. Like, I have a bunch of Bowie, REM and King Crimson on homemade tapes, and those are fantastic albums. Ugh. And having them on burned CDs with photocopied cover art wouldn't really satisfy me either. >Of course, I'd much rather have CD's than taped copies, but I can only >afford to buy so many CD's, and thanks to home recording I can listen to >more music. Well, sure, that's a concern for almost anyone. Including me. But the big question the record industry wants to know is, will you spend any less money on retail CDs than you do now if you can easily download music from the Net, or are you just going to record the same percentage of music off the Net that you used to record from your friends' collections? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:39:31 -0700 From: Paul Montagne Subject: PDX/Donner Party I hope to hook up and meet some of the NW fegs Thursday at Dots. Should be fun. Perhaps Robyn will join us for a drink or two. On another note: Gene wrote: "Or what about all of those albums which have never made it to CD (because the Record Industry didn't think they were worth their time and money)? Like the Donner Party's two albums, f'rinstance, or whatever. As soon as I have CD-making capabilities, I'm gonna put those very albums on CD. Wow, neat. Take that, Record Industry." A travesty I say. I can think of no other CD I'd rather own. That's the first thing I'm burning on my CD-R as well. Unfortunately, both albums wont fit on one CD. You may be interested in Quasi, Sam Coomes latest project (w/Janet Weiss of Sleater-Kinney). Quasi has a new release out called R&B Transmogrification on Up records. They put on a great show earlier this month in Portland opening for Eliott Smith. (Including a rousing version of Im SO Tired with Eliott on guitar and vocal). Paul Montagne NP: Scud Mountain Boys ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:36:48 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Neat Neat Neat In a message dated 98-06-23 15:57:50 EDT, you write: << However, I can either go to Tower and *hope* they have the CDs I want in stock, or order them on-line, *knowing* I'll receive them eventually. I'd rather wait a week after shopping in front of my computer than waste a trip to the record store. *That* is the convenience I want. I want instant gratification, sure, but a guarantee that I'll get the CDs I want means a little more. Not that I ever pass any opportunity to graze through any record store whatsoever. >> Well, this is *totally* the fault of the record stores for not doing a better job with special orders, which is essentially all that an order from cdnow actually is. As far as I know, they don't stock anything at cdnow; instead, they order everything from Valley Record Distriubtors (same folks I use for my distributor), then send it out once they've gotten it from them. But almost every store on the west coast could do the same thing. . . and even faster (because they wouldn't have to ship it out)! I can get an order into my store from Valley *next day* for no extra charge (assuming a certain sized order is placed). Now, I have a small store, so I only do orders once a week, but I *do* get special orders for people within a week. And there's no reason why bigger stores that do more volume and, therefore, order more frquently couldn't get people's special orders in within a day or two. It's just not part of their mentality, I guess. They don't realize that they *should* be competing with cdnow and all the other big online stores. Hell, most record store employees spend so much time just sittin' around that they could easily be processing huge orders through their distributors and quickly getting customers nearly every single CD they want (the store's fill rate would be the same as cdnow's, as far as backorders are concerned). So, next time you go to some store and ask how long it would take to order a CD (that's available domestically) and they tell you 2-6 weeks, call 'em a bunch of lazy asses and tell the manager/owner that you would've bought more than just that one used CD from them if they could've (and they could've!) gotten the other 12 CDs you were looking for within the same amount of time that you could order them online. Yeah. That's what I say. Uh-huh. - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:47:58 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Fwd: Neat Neat Neat Gene wrote: >There's nothing like going to the local record store, sure, but there's >also nothing like getting what you want. A good 90% of the times I visit >record stores I don't get what I'm looking for. I have at any time a >rotating list of 50 or so CDs I'd like to have. I drive to the local store >hoping to get one of them, or I go to cdnow.com and know that I'll get >them. And that's worth a week's wait. Sure, the stock issue. Always a concern for obscure collector types like you and me. But the record industry is driven by Spice Girls sales and the like, and there's no issue of stocking there. The record stores stock what sells best -- the artists who suffer are generally artists who had marginal sales potential to begin with. Maybe *you're* having problems finding Quasi discs for sale, but how many other *hundred* other people have the same complaint? :) And memo to Paul Montagne: R&B Transmogrification is not the new Quasi album. Featuring 'Birds' was released about a month ago -- THAT is the new Quasi album. (And it's not quite as good as R&B..., darn it.) >Well, I have John Oswald's (in)famous "Plunderphonics" CD on a Jaz disk >right now, and I think that's pretty damned neat. Why? Because the Record >Industry said "You can't have that CD!" and some folks, enpowered by the >Internet, said "Fuck yes we can!" > >All questions of legality aside, I wonder how many people would rather pay >me $10 for a CD dupe of my "Beautiful Queen" CD instead of plunking down >$50 for it? Or if I made a CD compilation of all of Robyn's b-sides and >such? I'd only be filling in the spaces the Record Industry left blank, >right? Yeah, but here you're talking musical collections that aren't publicly available in any other form. Not really the same issue. That's just the same old bootlegging issue which has been around for 30 years. The Net is a different, potentially more lethal kind of threat. Eb, who sure wishes he could find "An Evening With Wild Man Fischer" at a reasonable price ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 13:51:47 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Contest!!! an autographed 8 X 10 glossy of eb to the feg with the lowest number on their WHITE ALBUM cd! whattya say, eb? c'mon! you know you want to! tell you what, i'll even throw in my earl campbell rookie card as the runnerup prize, but ONLY if eb agrees to donate the autographed pic. and if someone want to organize a side-wager for who will be the winner of the big first prize, i'm putting my money on gene gene the dancin' machine hopstetter. ok. mine is #053662. beat THAT you fuckin' pipsqueaks! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:58:07 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Hitchcock and Demme In a message dated 98-06-23 15:55:16 EDT, you write: << Here's the deal. Why is it that when people switch their modem on they switch their manners off? Perhaps you don't really think of this as a group of flesh and blood people. This is not a group of random disembodied computer-generated voices, you know- we're all people with feelings and ideas and interests of our own, behind our keyboards. Would you, in real life, attend a gathering of people you don't really know, listen to various conversations and then stand up on a table and announce "Hey, I know you guys don't know me but I feel compelled to tell you that your conversations are for the most part terminally stupid and they do not interest ME at all. I would appreciate it very much if everyone would only talk about what interests ME, since those are the only things of substance in the world, and everything else is chat-room fodder". I surely would hope not. It's not a good way to make friends and influence people, and it's a -real- good way to tick people off. Yet it is in effect what you've just done. >> While I almost entirely agree with Susan and am a big supporter of keeping the topics on this list diverse, I think that it's also not altogether inappropriate to expect a list about Robyn Hitchcock to be about Robyn Hitchcock. I think there are better (more mannered) ways of bringing up an observation about this. "Say, I'm new here, so I don't mean to be rude, but I was wondering if it's common on this list for people not to talk about Robyn Hitchcock as much as one might expect and, if so, why?" I'm guessing that a lot of people on the list would be happy to explain (as Susan basically did) the underlying philosophies/way-of-being of Fegmaniax. Basically, we're a bunch of smart, friendly, weird and *very chatty* bunch. We all know more stuff about stuff than one ought to know, espcially as a collective. In fact, we could easily run the world. Instead, we essentially "talk" to each other, via the list, about things we find interesting. It's also very much understood that a decent number of topics will be uninteresting to somewhere between 3 and 96% of the other people on the list. If the percentage is small, then you probably won't need to delete too many posts (because the topic won't continue); if it's large, but you're in the minority, then you might have to delete a lot of posts. Either way, it's just a part of being subscribed to Fegmaniax. I'd guess that some people will find themselves consistently deleting almost every post that comes through, in which case they will either subscribe only to the news-only list, or they'll unsubscribe altogether (although I, personally, don't suscribe to this "unsubscribing" nonsense, nor would I recommend it, except in severe cases). Well, that's how I see things, anyway. - ------Michael K., a spokesperson for nearly everything today ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:05:20 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: Neat Neat Neat >As for Internet CD retailers, just the *cost* and *time* seem to be >obstacles. If I can go to Tower and buy a CD for $12, why should I buy a CD >on the Internet that will cost $13 or $14 plus $3 postage, that will also >take two weeks to arrive? Not too enticing for me. ... I'd agree with that if I lived in or near a large city, but I'm 30 miles from the nearest record store and 120 miles from the nearest *good* record store (i.e., one that has a better selection than your average Wal-Mart). So for urban-refugee rural hick-folk like myself who like to listen to Robyn's latest release while fixing our tractors and cleaning up after the livestock, the Internet is a veritable shopping lifeline to modern culture. And at most places, if the stuff is in stock it usually takes only 2-3 days even by regular mail (but presumably Eb used "two weeks" just as a figure of speech). And as long as the audio quality was the same, I for one definitely wouldn't mind burning the CD and printing the insert myself if it meant that more (or preferably *all*) of the profits went directly to the artist instead of the record company... - --John H. Hedgeley and the Slopticians PS. MD probably won't survive because it's a fairly inexpensive recordable medium. The record companies won't like that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:07:23 -0400 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Fwd: Contest!!! From: "Capitalism Blows" >ok. mine is #053662. beat THAT you fuckin' pipsqueaks! Well, my version of the White Album CD is an "unauthorized" CD-dup copy of the second run of the Japanese boot of the third demo recording session for the album, you know, the one where Macca dropped some Owsley so John wouldn't feel left out and they got into that rad noodly jam on "Why Don't We Do It In The Road?" and George sat in on tamborine, but Sir George got all pissy and threw them out of the studio to work on ping-ponging the 23 pianos for the end of "A Day In the Life"? Well, the number was erased by customs by my supplier before I could get it. But it is rare, and is worth quite a lot of money. Wanna CD-dup of it? Actually, I don't even own the White Album CD (he said, ducking bricks and rotten tomatoes). Drat. Guess I'm out one Ebtograph. ++++++++ Gene Hopstetter, Jr. + Online Design Guy http://extra.newsguy.com/~genehop/ ++ All hail Brak! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:11:40 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: coupla thoughts on this year's shows 1. the performances have been incredible, and the setlists wondrous. but he seems to be clocking in pretty consistently at right around 75 minutes. how long did he play at the ram's head? i'd say it was because in new yahk and in la, he was playing two sets per night. but, he also played for only that long in frisco. and, the multiple-sets- per-night knitting factory shows last year were nice and long. i'd sure not mind if he were to add another 20 minutes or so this week. 2. i've never been too confident about the third line of Viva Sea-Tac: People flocked like cattle to Seattle After Kurt Cobain And the falling rain i kept thinking it sounded more like, "And to fall in the rain" but that doesn't really make sense. but listening to the early bottom line show last night, i'm almost certain i heard, "And The Four In The Rain" now, i have no idea who The Four In The Rain are, but at least it sounds right, and makes some sense. although, you'd think that if people were flocking like cattle here for them, i'd at least have heard of them. 3. tim's backing vocals at the bottom line were quite agressive/pronounced. it was a little jarring, but, i think i kind of like it. just gives a little different twist to familiar songs. <"Eb eats school marms for breakfast" -- Eddie Tews> almost positive i said you eat them for *fucking* breakfast. yeah, i wasn't too crazy about STORYVILLE, either. but, i'm frankly pretty shocked that someone that takes as much pride in hearing as much new music as possible as you do, eb, hasn't given this a listen yet, 'specially considering all that you must've read about it, and also considering that robbie is one of the [fill in superlative here]est musicians of the rock and/or roll era. but that's one of the things i love about this list: we talk about *each other* so much. kind of like fourth-walling, which i've always dug. or, like, i almost enjoy reading interviews with movie directors more than watching the movies themselves. or, you know, i've probably watched Hearts Of Darkness about ten more times than i've watched Apocalypse Now. so, umm, this post is going nowhere FAST, isn't it? but, yeah, it's on capitol, and it's a motherfucking knockout, i tells ya! in the words or robbie hisself: "It is such a miracle of feeling to me--that music--so I very much wanted to just say, here's something I know you don't know about. It's right here. It's just down the road. And you've never been exposed to it. Check it out." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:15:14 -0500 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: Ditchcock and Hemme Michael K. writes again: >Basically, we're a bunch of smart, friendly, weird and *very chatty* bunch. We just have a little problem with redundancies, that's all. >We all know more stuff about stuff than one ought to know, >espcially as a collective. In fact, we could easily run the world. For chrissakes, man, don't give the game away! We're only two weeks from launching "Operation Global Mastersmash" and here you are blabbing to the whole world about our plans for planetary domination! What would Number One think? Oops... JH3 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 14:27:40 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Rob Rob Rob Eddie'd: ><"Eb eats school marms for breakfast" -- Eddie Tews> >almost positive i said you eat them for *fucking* breakfast. Yes, soon after I posted your comment, the "fucking" part came back to me. I don't know, maybe I'm naturally such a polite, gentle guy that my memory automatically filtered out the "fucking" part at the start. >yeah, i wasn't too crazy about STORYVILLE, either. but, i'm frankly >pretty shocked that someone that takes as much pride in hearing as much >new music as possible as you do, eb, hasn't given this a listen yet, >'specially considering all that you must've read about it, and also >considering that robbie is one of the [fill in superlative here]est >musicians of the rock and/or roll era. I certainly don't claim to hear everything. In particular, I don't claim to hear everything in the *mainstream*, which is basically where Robertson lies. And I haven't read much about the album either, because I just haven't been pursuing information about it. If it's another album heavily steeped in Native American culture like the last one, I wouldn't expect to like it that much. And his voice is in such crummy shape nowadays -- that's another big problem for me. There doesn't seem to be much "buzz" about the Robertson album, I'll certainly say that.... Point me at a good Web review of it, if you like. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:28:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Bayard Subject: Re: coupla thoughts on this year's shows On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Capitalism Blows wrote: > 1. the performances have been incredible, and the setlists wondrous. > but he seems to be clocking in pretty consistently at right around 75 > minutes. how long did he play at the ram's head? a very lengthy 1:45! he said, "they told me i should just play a long while, so if there 's anything you want to hear, just say so, or if you've had enough i can just go off. But anything that's not in the setlist is there because I didn't want to play it." I never thought I'd get to see a robyn show where he not only took requests, but made up songs. (instead of playing the requests.) it was epic. and close to the longest robyn show on record, i think i have seen 110 minute gigs on lists? > 2. i've never been too confident about the third line of Viva Sea-Tac: > > People flocked like cattle to Seattle > After Kurt Cobain > And the falling rain i think it's "And before, in the rain, Hendrix played guitar just like an animal..." > whoa, i have a CD Eb doesn't have? Holy toledo! Thanks Ed! ;) =b ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 17:28:30 EDT From: MARKEEFE@aol.com Subject: Re: Ditchcock and Hemme In a message dated 98-06-23 17:17:02 EDT, I and, then, JH3 wrote: << >Basically, we're a bunch of smart, friendly, weird and *very chatty* bunch. We just have a little problem with redundancies, that's all. >> Yeah, right, man! Like, redundancy is the problem I have is redundancy or something. Yeah, right, man! - -----Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:57:33 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: Ditchcock and Hemme >For chrissakes, man, don't give the game away! We're only two weeks from >launching "Operation Global Mastersmash" and here you are blabbing to the >whole world about our plans for planetary domination! What would Number One >think? Who is Number One? You are number six. Incidentally, re list meta: Yeah ok, it's fine to be bewildered when you join a Robyn Hitchcock mailing list and expect that people will talk about him constantly, and see that they aren't doing so. This is pretty natural, especially if you are not accustomed to the wayward ways of net discussion groups and haven't encountered this phenomenon before- I can see how it would be frustrating or perplexing. But to stand up and declare "Some of the off-topic things are worth my time, and others are not, therefore I would expect that since you've all gotten a good telling off you will in future try to stick to topics that interest me" is kinda rude. It was this perceived implication of "hey, you dolts, you're all a bunch of boring trivial people who waste my time, so I hope now that you've had this pointed out to you you will change your silly ways" that piqued me, not the confusion. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:46:21 -0600 From: amadain Subject: Re: Neat Neat Neat >sized order is placed). Now, I have a small store, so I only do orders once a >week, but I *do* get special orders for people within a week. And there's no >reason why bigger stores that do more volume and, therefore, order more >frquently couldn't get people's special orders in within a day or two. It's >just not part of their mentality, I guess. They don't realize that they >*should* be competing with cdnow and all the other big online stores. Actually they don't seem to realize they're competing with -anyone-. It looks to me that the mentality is: "We're large and have a well-known name, so everyone will come to us first anyway, because hey, people are lazy and they always go to a big store first because it's a name they know". This is to some extent true but it fosters a pretty arrogant attitude that many habitual music consumers (e.g., most of us here at Feg, not the guy who buys a Garth Brooks CD once a year) really really hate. I don't like to be treated like cattle and I won't patronize an outfit that does it. There's a reason that smaller, more individual type stores still flourish, and I think this is mainly it. The only chain I sometimes like to browse through is Crow's Nest, because I've found that they stock a lot of imports/obscurities and otherwise cater a bit better to the more-than-casual music buyer, and their prices are generally fairly decent. But then Crow's Nest is also not quite the mega real-estate gobbling juggernaut that something like Tower is. >one used CD from them if they could've (and they could've!) gotten the other >12 CDs you were looking for within the same amount of time that you could >order them online. Yeah. That's what I say. Uh-huh. I've never really had a problem with smaller stores. The last time I did a special order was for "Mossy Liquor" at Reckless Records, and they called me to say they had it like 3 or 4 days later. That's generally been my experience. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #235 *******************************