From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #170 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, April 30 1998 Volume 07 : Number 170 Today's Subjects: ----------------- xtc [dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)] Re: what woj sed [james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)] Re: more petulance [Eb ] re: Renaissance [David Librik ] very little [woj spice ] bread in bed [dmw ] Re: Comic Strips [Jon Fetter ] When I was Dead [candlabra@lewiston.com] Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] A bit of chord counting (WARNING: very dull) [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one [Eb ] Re: Comic Strips [Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer ] Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Time Signatures [Terrence M Marks ] RE: another brain teaser [Ross Overbury ] Re: what woj sed [tanter ] Re: Time Signatures [Sean Hennessey ] A nugget or two of friendly advice [Danielle ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:34:05 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich) Subject: xtc On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:47:37 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: > >good to see soem xtc fans on the list. we need comforting now dave gregory has >left... > >chris WHAT! when did dave gregory leave? wasn't it jus tthe three of them as a studio project anyway? -luther ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:41:08 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: what woj sed >This reminds me of Woody Allens " Everything you wanted to know about >sex" where Gene Wilder has an affair with a sheep. my all time favourite Woody Allen quote about sex is undoubtedly "sex between a man and a woman is a wonderful thing - as long as you're between the right man and the right woman!" As for his movies, Manhattan is still the best (although I love Annie Hall, too, and, for some really odd reason, What's new Pussycat. Zelig has its moments, too, but they're far and few) James (can we get back to music now?! :) PS: we have gallinules in NZ, but they're called Pukekos, which is a far more silly-sounding name (for some reason, it sometimes makes me think of Doritos) PPS: A prog fan, and proud of it! np: Quiet Sun - "Mummy was an asteriod, daddy was a small non-stick kitchen utensil" - another great long title! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:42:22 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: more petulance Ben jammed: >Once again I never said you were stupid. Just because you don't know >something doesn't make you stupid, in this particular discussion it just >makes you ignorant. The only thing I have said is that you are regularly >pompus and irritating in your comments. I submit the entire "Fegmaniax!" >list archives as proof. And what have you done for the list, hm? I'm willing to wager that if we both unsubscribed, a lot more people would miss me than you. Stupid, ignorant...whatever. Either way, you're desperately throwing stones when you know nothing about how much I do or don't know about music theory. You're also equating not liking the Dead with having an inferior musical background, which of course is 100% bullsheet. And by the way, as far as I'm concerned, there's DEFINITELY a point at which theoretical musical knowledge taints one's perception of pop-rock music. Judging pop-rock by jazz/classical standards of academic sophistication and complexity is a MAJOR mistake, and I see this miscalculation all the time amongst proggies. (And occasionally, amongst Fegs.) >You may have not known I was a Deadhead, but you certainly did know there >were some on the list, as similar arguments have come up before. Therefore >you knew that your negative comment would get a response out of at least a >few of us, which it did. Well, I also knew that the Great Quail, one of the chief Deadheads on the list, would read my comments and just laugh them off. As he did. Just as I'll laugh off any time he gushes about how great Phish and Rush are. He's also welcome to rave about Dish, Figdish, Bush, Tallulah Gosh, Daniel Ash, Kate Bush, Ash, Fish, Crush, Lush, Tom Rush, Peter Tosh, Johnny and/or Graham Nash, Crackerbash or Posh Spice if he likes. But not John Tesh, damn it. Watch yourself there, dude -- I don't care HOW many times you've seen the PBS specials. >It's the half-assed comments like these that betray the fact that you can't >help but sink to making remarks you consider clever put downs, and everyone >else files next to the rest of the egotistical jabs you turn out on a >regular basis. Zzzzzzzz. Well, just be thankful that I don't correct your spelling mistakes. Eb np: Chris Knosh/Polyfoto Duck Shaped Pain & "Gum" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:07:36 -0500 From: David Librik Subject: re: Renaissance All this Renaissance discussion leads me to ask a question: as a big fan of Annie Haslam's boyfriend Roy Wood, and as someone who had a life-changing experience a few years ago when he discovered Steeleye Span -- not to mention Robyn, of course (I hear mentioning Robyn is considered bad form here) -- what would I like by Renaissance? I have Haslam's solo album _Annie In Wonderland_ (mostly because the aforementioned boyfriend painted the sleeve) and don't feel the urge to play it more than once every five years. - - David Librik librik@cube.ice.net (new e-mail address that doesn't suck) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:43:49 -0400 From: woj spice Subject: very little gene sez: >ObRobyn content: I have a Robyn t-shirt with a drawing about the lyric >"He'd never make love to a loaf of bread unless he found one in his bed", > >Anybody else have this t-shirt? a-yup. think i bought it at tramps during the eye tour. it never really fit me, so it was adopted by the girlfriend pretty quickly. she uses it as a sleepshirt (isn't that ironic?). my contribution to the long song title thing: "twenty mirror mozarts composing on a tea bag and a 1/2 cup bra" by the red scare. so, what did the s.f. crew think of the movie/show? woj, from the same hometown as b.c.'s johnny hart (woo) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:31:59 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: bread in bed ...and here i'd always thought that was a reference to several of dali's paintings. fascinatin'. learn sumpin new everday, etc. happy b-day to bayard. - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:11:50 +0800 From: Jon Fetter Subject: Re: Comic Strips >As an aspiring comic-stripper, I'd like your-all opinions on comic strips, >that's all. Although not a comic strip, I'd strongly recommend the comic-style art of Edward Gorey to any feg. Anybody know if this guy's still alive/producing? There are two English newspapers here in Taiwan: one gets Doonesbury, Calvin and Hobbes, Shoe and Cathy, and the other gets the likes of Hi and Lois, Redeye, Boner's Ark (yikes!), BC, Beetle Bailey, and Hagar--I guess the latter paper runs that lame selection because they're easier to translate into Chinese (basically the same jokes over and over anyway). For a fairly good/odd modern comic, there's one that's about a cat and a dog (and their owners) that's drawn in a rather rough, simple style with Herriman-style humor. Can't remember the name, though. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------- There might be a signature here. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:46:23 +0100 From: candlabra@lewiston.com Subject: When I was Dead I saw the Grateful Dead twice ; both times were _most_ enjoyable. There's nothing like tripping on some classic jams under the open sky. Their musical "improvisations" were exhilarating, somewhat bizzare, but very pleasing nonetheless. I can't blame people for not "getting" them - they're just something you have to experience, i guess. :-) I have seen Robyn thrice; each time was _most_ enjoyable. Nothing like tripping on some classic jams in an intimate setting. His prosaic "improvisations" were exhilarating, somewhat bizarre, but very pleasing nonetheless. I can't blame people for not "getting" him - he's just something you have to experience , I guess. ;-) Chas (back on the list!) candlabra@lewiston.com - ---- "Is this some kind of parallel universe? What the hell is going on here?" -- Kit (Northern Exposure 3.23) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:11:36 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one >OH, I didn't want to step in here. I -really- didn't. But I just have to say >this- that I've got not a little musical training, I play guitar (sort of) >and piano (ten years of lessons) and used to sing, I've been a jazz DJ for >five years and listening to it avidly for longer than that, and I do not >like the Dead, Sam I Am. I don't believe that they were great improvisers. I >can't be sold on this point. Believe me, people have tried. This is not to >say that Dead fans are -not- knowledgeable about music (many are) or that I >believe I have superior knowledge to your own. It's just to counterbalance >the assumption that disliking the Dead automatically equals a lack of >knowledge/education, which I think is a false premise. > I would not equate the Dead's level of improvisation with ANY artist who plays what would be commonly considered jazz. 99% of jazz is light years beyond anything the Dead ever played. I would however, argue that on a good night the Dead could pull off some of the best improvisation you'd hear from a rock 'n' roll band. >the assumption that disliking the Dead automatically equals a lack of >knowledge/education, which I think is a false premise. I couldn't agree more. My point was that one of the things I enjoy most about the Dead's music (their improvisational skills) does require some musical knowledge to appreciate, or for that matter to dislike. You said you don't think the Dead were good improvisers, and you also displayed that you have the knowledge to back up your opinion if we were to discuss this further. Obviously, you seem to know what you are talking about, and while I may disagree with your opinion I still respect it. >>Because I haven't been discussing this with Dave Marsh, I've been >>discussing this with you. Unless you ARE Dave Marsh, I don't care what he >>has to say. > >That's too bad, because he's a very good writer and a rather learned and >perceptive fellow. I agree that it was a bit much for Eb to drag him in, >since the argument was between you guys and not Dave Marsh, but you know, >it's also a bit much to outright dismiss him. I wouldn't saty that I "dismissed" Marsh, I just have nothing to say about him because i am not familiar with his writing, so it would be totally unjustified for me to discuss what I think of someone who I have no real knowledge of. >>know that even a casual put down of the Dead (or any other popular artist) >>will stir something up. I'm sure you could have made a positive >>reccomendation of the Butterfield track without making a negative comment >>about something else, > >This is unarguably true. But you know, you didn't need to take the bait, >either :). You are absolutely right. But I have no regrets about it, in fact I think it has been a fairly good discussion so far. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:11:39 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one >In other words, you ARE calling me stoopid. And you DO praise the Dead >mostly as a jamming band, though you resent any Dead-hater who views them >in a jamming-band context. You're contradicting yourself right and left. > RE: And you DO praise the Dead mostly as a jamming band. I have talked more about this just because it has gotten the most responses. Besides thinking they great improvisers, I also think they were a good country band, good lyricists (Hunter and Garcia mostly), clever composers, had an appreciation of various music, and continually made the effort to push forward musically when most rock bands their age had lost their creative energy. I can add more to what I admire in them if you want... RE: the rest of the paragraph Listen carefully, Eb. I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE STOOPID!!!! I do assume (and since I don't know you I can only make a guess from what I have read) that there are certain skills you do not have that would make your opinion of the Dead's lack of musical skill much more justified. I am afraid you are misinterpreting my comments, which may mean I am not presenting them as well as I could, but again, by no means do I think you are stupid! >Oh, so you can congratulate yourself both for being a music major, and for >being a music major who retains his instinctual "street knowledge" side >too. Kewl! > No, I don't read my music textbooks because I am very lazy. I take no pride in being a music major either, if anything making the concious decision to almost enevitably face a life of poverty and obscurity is embarassing. >Why do you care so much what I have to say, then? Because I am trying to carry on a debate with you, and putting some effort into my responses is part of trying to present my side the best that I can. >Not really. I figured that we had already been through this. I find this >discussion fairly tedious, actually. I'm sorry you feel that way. If you don't want to continue the discussion I suggest you stop. (which of course would make me the victor by default..... :) ) >You didn't deny it, did you? You chord-count with gusto, place high >emphasis on a band's jamming capabilities AND you display in abundance a >proggie's most striking trait: self-righteous indignance toward critics, >because they aren't on your side and thus weaken your feelings of esoteric >superiority. I think that putting anyone in a category, be it "proggie", "folkie", "hippie" or anything else is an especially abhorrant trait. It's the very definition of narrow mindedness. You're going to have to take my word on this, but I am not what you seem to consider to be a "proggie". I do listen to some music, such as King Crimson, for example, that most people would consider "progressive rock". I also regularly listen to every other style of music there is, except for rap. If there is anything else I can let you know that would convince you I am not a "proggie" I would be happy to oblidge. >Incidentally, I don't think you've "displayed" any more understanding of >music theory than me as yet, unless you're really going to attach so much >weight to naming the key(s) of a song. Which is fairly elementary. > >Eb I am going to post my reply to this comment seperately because it add a lot more text to this post and I know people don't like to get huge letters from the list. Get out your abacus, it's time to count some chords!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 03:11:44 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: A bit of chord counting (WARNING: very dull) >Incidentally, I don't think you've "displayed" any more understanding of >music theory than me as yet, unless you're really going to attach so much >weight to naming the key(s) of a song. Which is fairly elementary. > >Eb The bit of Dead music I cited as an example of some clever improvisation was the transition between "Uncle John's Band" and "Estimated Prophet" found on Dick's Pick's Volume 5, which is a live performance recorded on December 26, 1979. (...available online at www.dead.net at a very reasonable price kids, don't hesitate, be the first on your block to own it!!! Hehehe...) The two reasons I am so impressed by this brief bit of music is the fact that, (1)both harmonicly* and rhythmically it is difficult to pull off, but (2) the band manages it almost effortlessly. It's genius lies as much in it's subtlety as it's musical difficulty. Now, why is it harmonicly and rhythmically difficult to pull off? Well, the main body of "Uncle John's Band" is in G major, but it also contains a solo/band improvisation section in D-minor, where Garcia will typically solo over the guitar and keybord comping a rhythmic, 3 chord theme: G-C-Dminor. In most performances, while Garcia sticks to the D dorian scale in his lead, Weir and Mydland will build variations onto the G-C-Dminor theme, but within the confines of D minor. They would then typically make their way back to the original theme, stop, sing the chorus for the final time, and launch back into the 3 chord theme in D minor. This is where they will most typically begin to "stir things up". The theme clearly is divided between repeating measures of 4 and of 3, but as Garcia begins emplying melodic phrases that are outside of what he was previously doing, the drummers instantly lose the emphasis on distinct measures of 3 and 4, they just go into constant quarters more or less. Garcia then really goes out by playing around an augmented scale, probably the last thing the rest of the band would expect him to do, but they pick up on it. Phil Lesh does the most by simply laying down one long, held out note on the bass that is repeated. Weir and Mydland play in a sparse manner as well, giving Jerry the room to shape things harmonically, and giving themselves a chance to figure out exactly what he's doing. Garcia's playing is clearly in 2, but the drummers then pick things up by beating triplets on each beat. This is echoed by Mydland and Weir in the form of a brief vamp. The space is now open for Jerry to push the band clearly in to F# minor. Brent basically says "I know where you're going" as he lays out a big arppegiated F# minor chord. It seems Phil wants to clue in the drummers as he lays down a simple groove that the drummers can't help but pick up on. Weir's comping plays off Garcia as he steps on the auto-wah, the drums and bass ride on a constant down beat so the front line of Garcia, Weir and Mydland can take a breath and land togther on the 1 lightly as a feather. Jerry begins the riff that is "Estimated Prophet" (just a melodic phrase in F# minor) and we're there. The 7/8 groove is tight and they are ready to truly "begin" the song. I do not consider myself to be skilled portraying music in writing, in fact I find it very difficult. There's nothing that compares to just listening to the music to get the feel for what is going on. But I hope I was able to convey, on a purely theoretical level, what is going on in this brief example. And it is brief; the time between the band leaving the "Uncle John's" theme and clearly landing on "Estimated Prophet" is approximately 30 seconds. But it is done in such a way that even I, someone who would recoginise "Estimated" at the drop of a hat, was totally surprised the first time I heard this. Their "blurring of the edges" is uncanny. It's an absolute seamless transition between two very different things, and a testament to the Dead's skills at communicating with each other purely through music. *this is a brief explination of why the transition between D minor and F# minor would typically be a rough one, at best: The scale Jerry is using is D dorian, a slight variant on a natural minor scale. The notes are D, E, F, G, A, B, C. Weir and Mydland are playing chords within the confines of that scale, causing very little harmonic conflict with whatever Jerry choses to play. (This is typically called modal improvisation, just pick up "Kind of Blue" for one of the best examples of it. This technique allows musicians to improvise in a manner that is very free, but with confines that keep it safely out of the realm of dissonance associated with free improvisation) Their eventual goal, F# minor, contains these notes. F#, G#, A, B, C#, D# (or possibly D, if "Estimated" is based in the F# dorian scale, which I don't remember. I don't think it really emphisizes one or the other) and E. Obviously you can tell that these scales have little in common, which leaves the band very little to work with as far as a seamless transition between the two. The Dead would typically move between keys that have more in common. D dorian to G major (the old favorite "Playin' in the Band"->"Uncle John's Band" they were fond of) for example, contains only one different note, making the transition quite easy to pull off. There are plenty of chords the two share in common, so they have a lot to "pivot" on, using common chords to move between different keys. On paper this is quite easy, especially in the simple context of most rock music. But doing it without actually knowing where you are going is hard. Especially in front of a crowd. The risk of falling on your face (which the Dead certainly did) is a great one. It requires almost a 6th sense in the musicians, not to mention constantly focusing on what you, and everyone else, are playing. I admire any band that posseses this ability. If you read this far, I apoligize for the lack of quality, but at least you didn't have to TYPE it!!! : ) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:28:48 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one Ben wrote: >Listen carefully, Eb. I DO NOT THINK YOU ARE STOOPID!!!! I do assume (and >since I don't know you I can only make a guess from what I have read) that >there are certain skills you do not have that would make your opinion of >the Dead's lack of musical skill much more justified. Yeah, yeah. And you instantly granted Susan "justified opinion" status, based on a few brief sentences which she wrote. Whatever. I *could* talk about my own musical skills, but I really think it would be self-indulgent and pointless. >I am going to post my reply to this comment seperately because it add a >lot more text to this post and I know people don't like to get huge letters >from the list. Regarding the extended analysis of the D minor - F# minor transition...I think you proved my point rather well about how diving too deeply into theoretical knowledge can easily make you lose sight of the forest for the trees. And by the way, I didn't have any trouble understanding everything you wrote. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:42:57 +0100 From: Stewart Russell 3295 Analyst_Programmer Subject: Re: Comic Strips >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Clark writes: Tom> "The Quigmans" rules. Wow - I've found the other Quigfan! I used to correspond with Buddy Hickerson. He threatened to stay at my place the next time he visited Europe. I did the decent thing -- I moved. Other favourites: - Graham Rawle's Lost Consonants - Bud Neill's Lobey Dosser If anyone's heard of the the last one, I'd eat my hat (if I had one). It was a Glasgow strip from the 40s-50s. Had a line in puns that has never been bettered. Stewart - -- Stewart C. Russell Analyst Programmer, Dictionary Division stewart@ref.collins.co.uk HarperCollins Publishers use Disclaimer; my $opinion; Glasgow, Scotland ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:17:37 -0800 From: Alex Martin Subject: Re: Comic Strips Has anyone seen a comic called Where The Buffalo Roam ? I find it quite good although it has a tendance to become a rip-off of Life In Hell You're just a natty carbuncle, festering in the corner!! - Aeon Flux ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 04:43:12 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: i knows a proggie when i smells one >Yeah, yeah. And you instantly granted Susan "justified opinion" status, >based on a few brief sentences which she wrote. Whatever. She presented her "credentials" (a poor choice of words, I know) so I assumed she was telling the truth. You never said anything as straightforward as that. Besides, everyone has "justified" opinions, I just put more weight on people who seem to know what they are talking about when we are discussing something of a more complex nature. You could have presented that you did know what I was talking about, said that it (meaning the Dead's improv skills) didn't impress you, and I would have not been nearly as compelled to explain why found it impressive. Instead you danced around the topic, until now... (see bottom of post) BTW Susan will be recieving her justified opinion plaque in the mail shortly. >I *could* talk about my own musical skills, but I really think it would be >self-indulgent and pointless. I'd be interested in hearing it. I think it would make me and others respect your opinion more. >Regarding the extended analysis of the D minor - F# minor transition...I >think you proved my point rather well about how diving too deeply into >theoretical knowledge can easily make you lose sight of the forest for the >trees. Can you explain this some more? If you mean that this kind of anaylisis either diminishes or perverts someone's insight on music, I addressed that in another post. But I will add that I have seen it happen in others where they see music almost as math and lose sight of what music is *really* about, which I believe is expressing emotion. I have not let any of the theoretical aspect of music "cloud my vision", to the contrary it has led me to appreciate even more music. >And by the way, I didn't have any trouble understanding everything >you wrote. Good, cuz I sure did. :) But seriously, folks.... Since you did understand my addmittidly overblown analysis of a 30-second bit of music I'll have to say your negative opinion on the Dead's jamming skills is not based in ignorance and is 100% "justified", in my eyes. I just wish you had made your knowledge clear much earlier. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 07:23:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Time Signatures Well, I'd just like to ring in and say that I'm impressed with Pink Floyd for being able to pull off "Bike" (I didn't even notice that the time signatures change randomly until I saw the sheet music). And does Yes count as a jamming band? (Hmm...I can't see being a jamming band as a good thing. The music sounds good or it doesn't. I don't partic'ly care if they're making the song up as they go along or if they've been drilling it, note-for-note, for several months. But then, I don't see what's wrong with people using session musicians, either.) Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 98 7:21:47 EDT From: Ross Overbury Subject: RE: another brain teaser She Was Waitin' For Her Mother At The Station In Torino And You Know I Love You Baby But It's Getting Too Heavy To Laugh - Shawn Phillips - -- Ross Overbury Montreal, Quebec, Canada email: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:17:02 -0400 From: tanter Subject: Re: what woj sed At 02:51 PM 4/29/1998 -0500, you wrote: >I dunno, I don't think real highly of the Soon-Yi affair. Not because of the >age difference per se but because the way they met is really disturbing- I >mean, he was married to her adoptive mother, An adoptive mother is still a mother, and I can't separate this from any other case of incest. She was part of the family as a child of his lover, hence his role was similar to that of father--or boyfriend, tho' since for 2 of the kids he was "daddy"--and to me, it's disgusting. I don't take it into the theatre with me--I just don't go into the theatre! I won't support him or help to pay his income. I wouldn't do it for OJ, either..... Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:03:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Sean Hennessey Subject: Re: Time Signatures On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, Terrence M Marks wrote: > Well, I'd just like to ring in and say that I'm impressed with Pink Floyd > for being able to pull off "Bike" (I didn't even notice that the time > signatures change randomly until I saw the sheet music). Ahh, but if you saw it on the sheet music, it's not random, it's fixed! :) Actually, though I'm no whizz whatsoever at odd times, my band covered 'Bike' and never had any trouble with it. It's purely natural and easy as long as you're following the vocals rather than anything else... That said, Syd was still one of the most natural, 'innocent' and imaginative songwriters I've ever heard... tara - Sean ******************************************************************************* Sean Hennessey, Bassist in Slippy Keane and President of the Boston Reds, an 'unoffical' Manchester United Supporters' Club url: http://members.tripod.com/~boston_reds/red_army.html email: suggs@tiac.net, ICQ#: 9288628 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 02:56:12 -0700 From: Danielle Subject: A nugget or two of friendly advice >From Ben, in response to Eb: > The only thing I have said is that you are regularly > pompus Is this an abbreviation? Does it have anything to do with Steve Miller? (Ben, if you want Eb to at least listen to you, run a spelling and grammar check before you hit send. He's not only a button-pusher, as Susan said. He's an *anal* button-pusher.) (Hmmm. Perhaps that was badly phrased. Oh well.) > It's the half-assed comments like these that betray the fact that you can't > help but sink to making remarks you consider clever put downs, and everyone > else files next to the rest of the egotistical jabs you turn out on a > regular basis. Aw, gee, Ben, this moral superiority tactic you've got going isn't very entertaining. I've had arguments with *Quakers* which were more underhanded. Go on, try to have some *fun* with the flaming! (The 'writing this post in 12/8' sig wasn't bad, Eb.) It's easy once you know how, and it can be even more exciting and wholesome than a good game of Twister. Failing that, how about an imaginative contribution from a member of the Surreal Posse? Quail? Or have the rabbits quashed you utterly? Whimsically, Danielle, very fond of a good pointless battle of wits or an interesting discussion, but not particularly fond of that most boring of threads, the totally content-less 'serious' argument ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #170 *******************************