From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #164 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, April 28 1998 Volume 07 : Number 164 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Storefront plans for Tuesday [Eb ] ideologies clashing [dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)] tori yadda yadda yadda [woj spice ] more brain-teaser ["Richard Plumb" ] Re: tori yadda yadda yadda [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] short short titles (go to my head), a little more ranting [james.dignan@s] Re: >any] Re: 100% indignant Deadhead content [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: more brain-teaser [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: "that was purdy" - revisited [sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain)] Re: "that was purdy" - revisited [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Re: short short titles [Eb ] Re: 100% indignant Deadhead content [Eb ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:48:19 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Storefront plans for Tuesday Chris wrote: >ObBrainteaser: didn't Falco have a 3? And didn't PIL have a self-titled >album? Or were they P.I.L.? How about the Byrds' 5D? "Fifth Dimension," not 5D. And "Public Image Limited," not PiL. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:56:37 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich) Subject: ideologies clashing On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:47:04 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: >>1) The UN - I think Jesse Helms is the one holding up things, but >>the main reason is that the UN is mostly a welfare program of >>useless bureaucrats doing nothing to which we are asked to pay a >>disproportionate share. > >Putting aside the question of whether this is Rich's own opinion of the UN >or that of the US Republican party (or both?), the *stated* reason for US >withholding of UN dues is that the UN supports family planning clinics in >other countries that either perform abortions, or provide counseling in >which abortion is presented as a legitimate option. Then what the >Republicans do is put language in essential appropriations bills stating >that funds will only be appropriated for dues if such programs are >discontinued. Jesse Helms is just one of the gang that's fond of this >tactic; they're all responsible, and they've been doing it for years. Christopher SMith is the one responsible- I should know, I used to work for Rep. David Obey (one of the good guys, who is unfortunately of the wrong party to affect all that much). The Abortion issue- geez, (opening a can of worms), while this idiot was "protecting the lives of those unborn", he was endangering (remember, we need the UN behind us if Saddams got some mustard gas up his sleeve!) the lives of US that ARE ALIVE! -luther ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:19:52 -0400 From: woj spice Subject: tori yadda yadda yadda well, i guess i'm going to end up in the minority on the tori issue, which is fine -- personal tastes, the, uh, p-word and all that. however, just a couple parting shots. michael sez: >What I meant to say is that, within her >lyrical style, I think she could do more to communicate to the listener. the hordes of toriphiles over-running the net, setting chat-attendee records at yahoo, waiting in line for days to get tickets for her rehearsal tour at small venues in the states beg to differ. for whatever reason, by whatever method, tori *connects* with these people on a metaphorical level. maybe some of them miss her point or are projecting their problems onto her songs, but there is communication of some sort happening there. (as i said, i connect with tori on a musical level, so i don't understand these people any more than you might.) >but songs like "Muhammad My Friend" make it >difficult for me to get past the middle of that album most of the time -- what >the hell is that one about? it's about the feminine aspects of "god" which have been shorn away from the religions of the book (judaism, christianity, islam). >I'd be happy to jump back on the bandwagon, but she'll have to "speak to me" >a little more succinctly if that's going to happen. you may want to give the new record a listen then (it's out next week, but i've had a copy since last week). the lyrics aren't as stark or direct as _little earthquakes_, but are less veiled than on _boys for pele_. nearly all the songs deal with her recent personal life (she had a miscarriage during the last tour and just married), so i dunno how much they will speak to you, but there's movement away from the inpenetrability of _boys_. plus, she's touring with a band this time around -- something i've been advocating for since the first tour -- so the songs are definitely more band-oriented than piano-oriented. gnat sez: >It's not Tori's surreality that bugs me. I like surreality. It's the fact >that her brand of surreality, at least in interviews, often strikes me as >pretentious, forced, and extremely self-serving. ("Look how weird I am, >I'm a wonderful talented artist!") Robyn, on the other hand, doesn't >strike me that way - not often, anyway; when he waxes surreal, he doesn't >seem to be either faking it or trying to get attention, and he's generally >very humble and self-deprecating. funny, i feel the exact opposite. robyn's a fairly rational person when you chat with him, but pulls out all the eccentric englishman stops on stage. tori, on the other hand, is brain-baked all the time (yeah, i'm sure there is a touch of drugs involved -- she's very upfront about ayahuascha and she's no stranger to the bong, though she professes a preference -- and respect -- for hallucinogens). she's a loon whether being interviewed, talking to fans, writing songs or whatever. she may be a flake, but i, at least, don't believe it's an act. finally, eb (!): >Eb (jeez, I really didn't think we'd have to get into this again) fegmaniax -- the virual the worm ouroborus. don't worry: the dead-bate and the tori-talk will come again. it always does. ;) woj n.p. Blow it out your ass it's Veruca Salt n.d. old speckled hen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:35:58 +0000 From: "Richard Plumb" Subject: more brain-teaser 3 brain-teasers from my collection: Gong - You Gram Parsons - GP Bob Weir - Ace I promise to never mention politics again. I can't believe there are more grateful dead comments. I love them, I know people hate them, I know other people love them. nobody's going to change each other's minds. New albums(all because of off topic comments, thank you): Olivia Tremor Control (title too long to remember) which I find much cooler on first listen than NMH (which I like). Throwing Muses - The Real Ramona - great stuff I need more. Kristin Hersh (newest album) - a bit twee on first listen, but it'll get another chance. Charles Mingus (the list has nothing to do with this) - anyone with the slightest interest in jazz must buy his album Mingus at Antibes. It is the greatest, totally wails at a furious tempo. Eric Dolphy is mind boggling on sax throughout. rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 20:56:07 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: tori yadda yadda yadda I am another one who was quite into Tori from the first "really deep thoughts" vid. I've seen the footage of her on good morning america wherein she dismantled one of the hosts. I've seen a bunch of live stuff in which she gets "very physical" with her piano bench while playing and singing remarkably well. Hell, I put "China" on my list of likeable pop songs. I like her clever use of the word as a device to make us think simultaneously about two things. That said, I am slowly straying away from her for some of the same reasons as others, but seem to have some of my own takes. The recording of her voice has been more and more irritating to me. She has a beautiful voice with great richness and fullness, and she's produced to be narrow and edgy. I used to defend her from comparisons to Kate Bushes negative aspects, but now I'm starting to move on this point. Kate Bush was produced thin and edgy, became more and more "I'm an ARTISTE," and wrote bigger and bigger, more pointlessy stuff as time went on. I think Tori started out showing how tough she was, with her insightful "realism," and has occasionally wandered into obscurity for pretention's sake. She seems distracted in the way that caused Joni Mitchell to become so self-posessed. My sweety calls her too much like therapy. That said, I still like her more often than not. Am I the only person who can just take or leave the Dead? (I really like Terrapin Station, the album that most DeadHeads [tm] called a sell-out) - -markg np. _An Evening Wasted With Tom Lehrer_ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:06:10 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: short short titles (go to my head), a little more ranting Ebsez: >The other night, a chum and I were trying to think of album titles with >three characters or less (counting punctuation like periods and exclamation >points, but not counting spaces). We came up with the following: L - Godley & Creme L - Steve Hillage A - Jethro Tull X - InXs Oto - Fluke (I think) XL1 - Pete Shelley UK - UK as for shortest album title and band name combined, it must be the aforementioned UK album. Not sure about *song* and artist though... >Well....what about all those Peter Gabriel albums that were untitled? >Where do they fit in? I thought they were all called "Peter Gabriel". They're often called "Car Scratch, Melt, and 4 in NZ (I believe 4 was known as something like "Security" in the states) >The white album didn't actually have a title.... yes it did- "The Beatles" >But of course. Although I must say, I saw a hourlong special on the making >of Paul Simon's Graceland a few days ago, and (Hearts & Bones collaborator) >Glass was interviewed and seemed like an OK guy. since This album also featured King Crimson's Tony Levin, I'll leave the Quail to figure out how to link RH to PG is six steps (other than via the track I'm doing for GFII - "Never stops bleeding (Philip's Flesh)" ;) >> Front 242's _Off_ (unless you consider its title to be _05:22:09:12 Off_) > > F U I K Off? erm, that's "EVIL Off" oh,m and back to the rant temporarily - my last visit there, I promise!: Rich Plumb sez: >New Zealand - I agree the nuclear thing was an abomination from the >wretched Reagan administration, but weren't an awful lot of Maoris >slaughtered in your past and aren't they still mostly living in poverty. that's true - there were land wars during the 1860s. And a lot of Maori do still live in poverty (anyone who's seen the movie "Once were warriors" knows that New Zealand doesn't have a spotless record). But we are trying hard to put matters right. Within the last six months, for example, the Ngai Tahu, one of the country's biggest iwi (tribes), received a settlement of $170,000,000 plus large acreages of the South Island in order to redress claims under the Treaty of Waitangi, New Zealand's founding document, which proclaimed an alliance between the colonists and the native races under the jurisdiction of the crown. Maori have had rights in NZ that were unavailable to native races in most colonised countries (how many US first nations, or even African Americans, for that matter, had the vote last century, when the Maori were granted it? How many have been vice president or speaker of the house? The equivalents of both positions have been held by Maori in NZ, most recently by Winston Peters (currently) and Peter Tapsell (until 1996) respectively). I'm not making NZ out to be the best country on the planet, or America to be the worst, I'm just saying that if you think everyone thinks - or should think - that the US is the best, you're very much mistaken oh and well done Michael K - yup, hoist by me own petard, I think :) >OK, smarties, link him to ME easy. Robyn released the album ME about a year back James PS - I was desperately trying to think of a 3 or less character NZ album title, but the shortest I've been able to come up with are Hail, Melt and Blow, all by Straitjacket Fits. Anyone...? James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:55:40 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: Re: >any > > Front 242's _Off_ (unless you consider its title to be _05:22:09:12 Off_) > > > > F U I K Off? > > You're a letter off -- it's EVIL Off. They had another album that came uh, er, i was up late last night. i promise not to try to count again. on g------- d---: eb said something about never having heard anything like rock and roll from them (grievous paraphrase i know; bear w/me if you would). my room-mate intermittently tries to convert me w/ live tapes and when it comes closest to working, nobody's singing, and i think it's some not-half-bad fusion album i haven't heard before -- like mahavishnu orchestra w/o john mclaughlin or something. so i agree completely with proximate d sharp -- i've consistently found them to be at their least unintersting when farthest from the rock'n'roll idiom. maybe liking fusion jazz is the prerequisite? d. - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:57:01 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: 100% indignant Deadhead content >I've never heard anything by the Grateful Dead that resembles rock 'n' >roll. Are we talking about the same band?!?!?! Listen to "Promised Land", "Around 'n' Around", or a few dozen of their other covers of rock 'n' roll classics. You can't get more "rock 'n' roll" then their by-the-book version of "Johnny B. Goode" on the Skull & Roses album, and I could fill this letter with more examples. Come on, Eb, that statement is just plain silly! >Lotsa people hate the Dead. I'm one of them. And spare me the "one can't >possibly dislike the Dead if he has been exposed to enough material" >argument. There are well-informed music fans who don't like the Grateful >Dead. Just accept it. Of course there are, but at the same time there are plenty of great musicians who respect what the Dead did. Your belved Elvis Costello, for one. Ornette Coleman, Branford Marsalis, and David Murray all thought enough of the Dead to join them on stage, in fact David Murray recorded an entire album of Dead covers. But who likes them and who doesn't isn't what I want to talk about... >Then Ben sniffed: As in runny nose type "sniff"? What's that supposed to mean? Here, let me suggest something better: ">Then Ben whined like a stupid fucker:" Better? >>That's one of the things that bugs me most about Dead critics (a profession >>that employs more people than any other American industry), when they >>compare the Dead's improv/jamming "whoever's 8-hour guitar solo on Whipping >>Post". If that's all your hearing in their music and that's all you can >>think of to compare to it, then you're missing the whole point of what >>people (some Deadheads, even) hear in them. Sort of like the constant >>comparisons between Robyn Hitchcock and Syd Barrett, it's becoming a >>nauseating practise that is devoid of any kind of original perspective on >>the music and displays a complete misinterpretation of the artist's work. >>Lame. > >Zzzzzz. See above. > >Diss the Dead to a Head, and the inevitable response is "Oh, you gotta see >'em live." Or in Brandt's case, "Oh, you gotta HEAR them live." And what's >the main difference between live and studio shows? Jammin', dude. > >You cite NO Grateful Dead virtues as rebuttal -- you only attack my >criticisms negatively. Such a tactic isn't too convincing to me. First of all, "Zzzzzz" is not my idea of an intelligent response on your part. If you want to discuss the virtues/non-virtues of the Grateful Dead's music, then I'll throw out what I think are two of the best things about them and we can talk about those: 1. First I want to tackle the whole "jamming" issue, since it seems to be what most often devides the believers and the vast anti-Deadheads. Maybe you have to have some sort of appreciation and understanding of improvisational music (read: jazz) to enjoy this. The Dead were by no means technically advanced improvisers in the jazz tradition, but IMO they had the same spirit that drove the musical exploration present in most jazz. Unlike many "rock" bands, they took chances on stage every night, by always doing different setlists, and during most shows performing music that is completely improvised. Let me just cite an example, on the "Dicks Picks vol. 5" CD, they manage to pull off a completely seamless transition between a song in 4/4 in D minor into a song in 7/8 in F# minor. I imagine, being someone familiar with musical practice, that you would be able to appreciate both the musical communicaation between the band members and the spur of the moment creativity required to pull something like this off. And this is just one example, there are countless others I could give you. Sometimes they could go out on a limb and fall on their faces, but that's all part of the excitement in what they were doing. 2. Next I want to talk about the Dead's roll in American music. Since you have heard a lot of their albums and concerts I think you would have to agree that they covered a wide spectrum of the history of American music. They could play traditional country, bluegrass, folk, gospel, and rock 'n' roll. They explored the sound of jazz fusion and classical composition. They played "avant-garde" or "free" music. They used the modal improvisation style pioneered by the likes of Miles Davis and Coltrane. They even wrote some lousy pop tunes. Drummers Hart and Kreutzmann exposed people to the various drumming styles of the world during every concert of the 80's and 90's. Their lyrics were often an extention of the style of storytelling present in American folk music, with all kinds of references to America's past thrown in. They even once attempted to play a song by this British guy who used to hang out with R.E.M. (Bob Hitchcock I think his name was?), it was shaky, but they made it through. I wouldn't have gotten into jazz, country, folk, etc. about 5 years ago (and mind you I am a spring chicken, at 20 I really am too young to have bought "Security" when it came out, but I do have it on CD!) if it wasn't for all of the elements of these styles, in abundance, present in the Dead's music. caveat empor: I am not a hippie or a neo-hippie. I do not listen to Phish, Blues Traveler, Dave Matthews, etc. I don't do drugs. I do major in music in college, so someday I should have a paper that shows I know what I'm talking about. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:04:54 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: more brain-teaser >Charles Mingus (the list has nothing to do with this) - anyone >with the slightest interest in jazz must buy his album >Mingus at Antibes. It is the greatest, totally wails at a >furious tempo. Eric Dolphy is mind boggling on sax throughout. > >rich If you like "Mingus at Antibies", let me also reccomend a recording of one of his last shows with Dolphy, it's available both on a double CD called "Revenge" or two seperate CD's called "Paris 1964 volumes 1 & 2". It's also an unbelieveable performance, and the sound (at least on "Paris 1964", the version I have) is great. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:38:49 -0500 From: sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain) Subject: Re: "that was purdy" - revisited >eyes of Byrd, Gephardt, Rostin(the felon from Chicago)kowsky, Didn't wanna get into this, so I won't. But I did want to mention something about that felon :). Ya know, a lot of folks in Chicago were quite happy with said felon, as he brought a lot of pork, as they call it, back home to his district. And it is somewhat true what they say about Chicago politics- that people tend to be OK with corruption when it appears to be "working" (note the phrase appears to be and that "working" is in quotes- I'm not advocating that system). Just defending old Danny as I don't really think he was all that bad or actually all -that- corrupt, so I think tarring him as a felon when other people are getting away with the same or worse, and their consituents seem to be OK with it and allowing it, is not really too fair. I realize you were pretty much just using the felon part as an identifier and joke, I just wanted to make that point. In my opinion other people are doing the same or worse every day and it's probably more a matter of him having ticked off the wrong people that got him caught. Hell, I think Carol Moseley-Braun's party junket to Nigeria was a lot worse than anything Danny ever did. >controlled but not eliminated. Ever notice how the "individualists", be >they in fashion, music, politics, religion or whatever, whose main >slogan during their struggle was tolerance and acceptance, so often >make really negative generalizations? Maybe it's because sometimes you get damn tired of extending tolerance to people who don't extend it back to you. I for one am NOT Christlike and sometimes I get weary of that, OK? I'm not advocating an in your face stance but you know, I'm human, and being sometimes treated like a zoo monkey gets to me the way it would anyone else. Yeah, I choose to go against the stream on a lot of things, but there are some things I just am and didn't choose. And I tolerate and live with a lot of shit I don't agree with and I'm de facto expected to do that, and also de facto expected to tolerate intolerant bullshit when it's thrown my way, or I'm a bitch or a bad sport with no sense of humor. Fuck that. >in their perfect world, there would be no left overs. Everyone "should" >have a chance, but true equality is a pipe dream and will never happen. Well, my dad used to say something about how everyone and no one is equal. I think that about sums it up. I think what people disagree on is what constitutes equal -opportunity- to fulfill whatever your potential is. >I still think anyone with an IQ lower than 135, a socialist or for that >matter anyone who has not taken LSD, My IQ is higher than 135, I'm not a socialist (I'm not an anything-ist :)), but I've never dropped acid. So I can't vote in your world. Thanks a lot buddy, I -was- gonna vote for you but now I'm NOT :)). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:36:33 -0700 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: "that was purdy" - revisited >>I still think anyone with an IQ lower than 135, a socialist or for that >matter anyone who has not taken LSD, >My IQ is higher than 135, I'm not a socialist (I'm not an anything-ist :)), >but I've never dropped acid. So I can't vote in your world. Thanks a lot >buddy, I -was- gonna vote for you but now I'm NOT :)). Hate to pull rank, but.... As a representative of the 8.00+/- IQ team (decimal may be moved one place or two either way), I thought that I would comment that I'm already fixed, so I won't be populating that world, and that I haven't (obviously) ingested any mind-expanding drugz. I have recently started taking immetrix (sp?) for my head and motrin for my knees. They are also making me no smarter. Oh well, I always vote in this world. Even for well- educated sex-crazed wishy-washy lawyers who posess a highly disfunctional moral compass. From Quail's everywomanismybrothereverymanismysister post, I think I'd like to live in his world. I wonder if they have migraines and crappy jobs there... probably not. Quail for president. I hope everything is going your way, - -Markg John Nance garner once said, "The Vice Presidency isn't worth a pitcher of warm spit." During the Bush administration, we finally had a perfect fit for the job. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:13:04 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: short short titles James wrote: >UK - UK > >as for shortest album title and band name combined, it must be the >aforementioned UK album. Nope. Untoppable winner: "P," by P. :) (If you don't know, P is a Butthole Surfers offshoot, with help from actor Johnny Depp. The album's not too good frankly, but eh, I keep it around to flesh out my Buttholes collection.) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 01:51:26 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: 100% indignant Deadhead content >>I've never heard anything by the Grateful Dead that resembles rock 'n' >>roll. > >Are we talking about the same band?!?!?! Listen to "Promised Land", "Around >'n' Around", or a few dozen of their other covers of rock 'n' roll >classics. You can't get more "rock 'n' roll" then their by-the-book version >of "Johnny B. Goode" on the Skull & Roses album, and I could fill this >letter with more examples. Come on, Eb, that statement is just plain silly! Like I said, if they've done decent rock 'n' roll, I haven't heard it. Any attempts at rock 'n' roll which I've heard have always been fatally undercut by the messy drumming, the band's abhorrence of power chords and that horrendously woozy singing. >there are plenty of great >musicians who respect what the Dead did. Your belved Elvis Costello, for >one. Ornette Coleman, Branford Marsalis, and David Murray all thought >enough of the Dead to join them on stage, in fact David Murray recorded an >entire album of Dead covers. But who likes them and who doesn't isn't what >I want to talk about... That's good, because the "This cool musician likes 'em!" argument never holds any water with me. I love Elvis Costello, but from what I can tell, our musical tastes really don't have a heckuva lot in common. Similarly, I DEFINITELY have found that my tastes don't have a heckuva lot in common with other Costello fans' tastes either, and for similar reasons. And hey, I'm surprised you didn't throw Dylan into your above comment -- another Dead fan (or at minimum, a Garcia fan). >First of all, "Zzzzzz" is not my idea of an intelligent response on your >part. I already had written about the band in detail in the previous paragraphs. Hopefully, you could've taken some substance from some of those words. It's just Brandt gave me more to work with, debatewise. >1. First I want to tackle the whole "jamming" issue, since it seems to be >what most often devides the believers and the vast anti-Deadheads. Maybe >you have to have some sort of appreciation and understanding of >improvisational music (read: jazz) to enjoy this. The Dead were by no means >technically advanced improvisers in the jazz tradition, but IMO they had >the same spirit that drove the musical exploration present in most jazz. >Unlike many "rock" bands, they took chances on stage every night, by always >doing different setlists, and during most shows performing music that is >completely improvised. Let me just cite an example, on the "Dicks Picks >vol. 5" CD, they manage to pull off a completely seamless transition >between a song in 4/4 in D minor into a song in 7/8 in F# minor. This is a soulless argument of Musoism. Or as I like to call it, Chord-Counting. Also doesn't rate with me. And I do appreciate jazz, by the way, so I guess I must be lacking some other faculty which prevents me from grimacing every time I hear the Dead. It's not an issue of jamming itself, but HOW they jam. As I already said, I hate their compulsively polyrhythmic drumming style and those feel-good-groovy bubbling tempos, and I don't care for Garcia's tinkly guitar style. I do not like it, Sam I Am. >2. Next I want to talk about the Dead's roll in American music. Since you >have heard a lot of their albums and concerts I think you would have to >agree that they covered a wide spectrum of the history of American music. >They could play traditional country, bluegrass, folk, gospel, and rock 'n' >roll. They explored the sound of jazz fusion and classical composition. >They played "avant-garde" or "free" music. They used the modal >improvisation style pioneered by the likes of Miles Davis and Coltrane. >They even wrote some lousy pop tunes. Drummers Hart and Kreutzmann exposed >people to the various drumming styles of the world during every concert of >the 80's and 90's. They tried a lot of stuff, yes. But was it successful? This is one of my pet peeves of criticism, actually -- folks who applaud artists based on their intentions, ambitions or conception, rather than the RESULTS of those intentions/ambitions/conceptions. For further details, see any positive review of Wilco. Eb PS And then I went digging in my old books and found.... "The Grateful Dead epitomize hippie rock & roll, and if you're a hippie yourself, you might want to invert the judgments expressed in the ratings above. But unless you are, this is one assertedly major oeuvre that's virtually worthless except for documentary purposes. The Dead's long modal jams may be the stuff of mesmerism in concert (though even there, it's questionable), but they're simply self-indulgent and boring on disc. The band's attempts at pop, rock and country are rendered effortlessly irritating and stodgy by the band's lack of a crisp rhythm section and/or a single competent vocalist. "The Dead are worshipped for their image as hip patriarchs, which means that as long as Jerry Garcia has that acid twinkle in his eye, he'll never have to worry about his pedestrian set of chops. Truthfully, there simply isn't very much about this group that's impressive, except the devotion of its fans to a mythology created in Haight-Ashbury and now sustained in junior high schools across America. At its peak, the Dead has essayed competence: Workingman's Dead is third-rate next to Sweetheart of the Rodeo, much less anything Gram Parsons ever recorded on his own, but it has a sweet ingenuousness that renders it bearable. Similarly, Live Dead isn't much less interminable than any other Dead concert piece, but it has a freshness that feints toward vitality. But when the Dead attempt to rework rock and blues standards -- as they did on their horrible debut album, and have sporadically since -- they are a pox upon the face of pop. And the group's patchouli-oil philosophy, which does nothing more than reinforce solipsism and self-indulgence in its listeners, except when it's nurturing its Hells Angels fan club, is exactly the sort of stuff that gave peace 'n' love a bad name. "Since joining Arista, the Dead have basically relinquished any claim to being taken seriously except as nostalgia mongerers. They essentially fulfill the same purpose as do the current Beach Boys: offering facile reminiscence to an audience with no memory of its own. This would be a tragic end, if there had been any genuine glory involved to begin with." - -- Dave Marsh, Rolling Stone Record Guide, 1983 (and note that Marsh is FAR more of a patron of blues/roots music than I am) ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #164 *******************************