From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #160 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Sunday, April 26 1998 Volume 07 : Number 160 Today's Subjects: ----------------- nick and tori and kristin, oh my! [woj spice ] tomatoes and radio wires ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: Tori (2% RH) [MARKEEFE ] NMH single/import CD shopping [MARKEEFE ] comment [dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)] I like to be in America [Danielle ] Re: Politics is Way Off Topic [Alex Martin ] Renaissance (0% US-Bashing) [Terrence M Marks ] Re: I like to be in America [tanter ] Re: Tori (2% RH) [John Barrington Jones ] The Bird w/the Lightbulb Head [Christy Cohen ] Re: The Bird w/the Lightbulb Head [Capuchin ] Re: I like to be in America [summary in one couplet] [KarmaFuzzz ] Re: Politics is Way Off Topic ["Capitalism Blows" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 13:53:14 -0400 From: woj spice Subject: nick and tori and kristin, oh my! also sprach Patrick L Welker: >Quick question, does anyone know if the new Nick Harper cd is any good? haven't heard _alcopop_ myself, but the word on stormcock (the roy harper mailing list) is that it is quite good, if somewhat different from his previous records. here's what darren crisp (roy's manager) had to say about it: >Nick's new CD 'Smithereens' is now available (email direct for further >details). Apart from the rarther dodgy cover pose this CD is excellant, and >very different to his last two releases. Although I note that some of the >postings say it is 'over produced' you'll really get into it after a few >spins on the CD player - I've had a copy of this since last June when it was >finished, and I think Nick goes from strength to strength. also sprach michael k.: >I like Tori, but she can be kind of hippy-dippy sometimes. no doubt about it: she's a frosted flake, but i don't think that her new age-ish spouting is a a gimmick. she is one of those people who think and feel at orthogonal angles to the rest of us. this is easy to interpret as hippy-dippiness, but she is a surprisingly grounded person -- just not that rational. the real hippy-dipps are her fans who try to emulate their idol (trust me: i moderate a tori amos mailing list, i know). >Maybe she wouldn't have to go to such >great lengths to explain her music (via the press) if her lyrics weren't so >deeply mired in obscurity -- I mean, if ya write good songs, they will speak >for themselves. tori's songs speak in her highly symbolic and personal language. asking her to write plainly would be like asking a fish to walk or breath. personally, i don't understand this (common) criticism of her music. then again i'm not very oriented towards lyrics -- they are often the last component of a song that i grok and i almost never have a need to know what a song is about to enjoy it. by the time i get around to paying attention to words someone sings (as opposed to the sound of the vocals), i'd much rather have a lyrical density which is intriguing after many listens than a song where the lyrics quickly become part of the backdrop. btw, i found this an odd comment coming from a robyn hitchcock fan. sure, he's made a move away from his dense and obscure lyrical past, but he's still fairly obtuse and his between-song story hasn't gotten any less surreal. i do suppose that he settles down somewhat during interview though.... also sprach lobstie: >Tori's lines about the girls lining up for her (the songs) sounds bogus and >crap in the face of these songs by Kristin. is it so hard to imagine someone who likes them both? the three people i tend to go to shows with most often, who are even more ardent toriphiles than me, are also huge fans of kristin. (we're all quite looking forward to kristin's three evenings at the knitting factory (though i'll only be able to make it to saturday night).) woj p.s. betcha lj was just *aching* to see my defense of tori. ;) n.p. :/w@r.ren.CUCc.u.ruLLO -- th@n.ks 2:/Fr@n.k ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 12:01:43 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: tomatoes and radio wires my lips are sealed. and y'all know how difficult it is for me to say that. i think the key is, he didn't go (directly) dissing poor people. if he'd done that, i'd have probably been unable to restrain myself, no matter the consequences. at first, i thought mangum's voice sounded very much like jeremy enigk's. but the more i listen, the more i think he sounds like billy corgan. although i guess he'd want people to think he sounds like himself. i'll tell you who he reminds me of, watching him sing, though. you know that scene in Clockwork Orange, where they're using the ludwig van in the ludovico treatment, and it's freaking alex out? and the doctors ask him if he's familiar with ludwig, and he screams out, "YES!!!" and his mouth contorts into a parallellogram? that's what mangum looks like in concert. but here's an experiment you can try in your own home or workspace. try singing along. you'll find that, in order to make it sound right, you've *got* to contort your mouth. it's kinda neat. "The Dude abides"...I don't know about you, but i take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there, "The Dude," takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shesh...I sure hope he makes the finals. --The Stranger ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:05:45 EDT From: MARKEEFE Subject: Re: Tori (2% RH) In a message dated 98-04-25 14:06:34 EDT, you write: << tori's songs speak in her highly symbolic and personal language. asking her to write plainly would be like asking a fish to walk or breath. btw, i found this an odd comment coming from a robyn hitchcock fan. sure, he's made a move away from his dense and obscure lyrical past, but he's still fairly obtuse and his between-song story hasn't gotten any less surreal. >> Well, even though Robyn's lyrics are generally fairly odd, they almost always succeed at hitting the nail right on the head, for me. And I definitely wasn't saying that Tori should change her lyrical style at all. In fact, I had meant to praise her lyric writing on "Little Earthquakes" (by saying that I thought that those lyrics, in combination with the more complex music of her more recent works, would be ideal -- well, all the lyrics on "LE" aside from "China"; that song sucks). What I meant to say is that, within her lyrical style, I think she could do more to communicate to the listener. For instance, on "Boys for Pele", there are a good number of songs which I find completely engaging ("Horses", "Blood Roses", "Not the Red Baron", and, esp., "Putting the Damage On"), but songs like "Muhammad My Friend" make it difficult for me to get past the middle of that album most of the time -- what the hell is that one about? But I guess that the emormity of her fan-base suggests that she's doing an all right job, so maybe I'm just not probing deeply enough into ToriWorld to get what she's talking about. But, for myself, I'd like to see a return to lyrics like "Winter" and "These Precious Things" -- you see, I was once a *huge* Tori fan (had all the CD singles, watched the videos, videotaped interviews that she did, etc.). But now I just think she's pretty cool. I'd be happy to jump back on the bandwagon, but she'll have to "speak to me" a little more succinctly if that's going to happen. Sorry, Tori, I know it breaks your heart to hear all this, but I'm all about tough love, baby ;-) - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 15:22:26 EDT From: MARKEEFE Subject: NMH single/import CD shopping I just got an import CD single (on Blaze records) of an earlier NMH song called "Everything Is". It has much more of a "one guy in a recording studio" (or using a good 4-track, more likely) kind of feel to it. . . more akin to something in the Beck genre than to what is now the classic NMH sound. But it's always interesting to explore an artist's humble beginnings. I got it through my current import distributor, WMI (www.wmimusic.com, up in Canada), but, actually, I saw it listed for a cheaper retail price ($7.50 U.S. $'s!) at www.cdexpress.com -- a friendly bunch of Dutch folks, but I've yet to order anything from them, so I don't know how quick or reliable they are. . . but they are cheap. Happy hunting, all. - -------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:39:18 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich) Subject: comment > >Obviously we've committed crimes, but never in our history have we done >anything compared to Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler to name a few. >Of course slaughtering the Indians seems pretty nasty in this day and age, >but imperialism was common before the 20th century and not considered the >crime against humanity it is today. For those who ARE part indian, you bet the hell it is! Anyway, on to Robyn topics...what ARE Andy and Morris doing these days? I know one was doing something "with computers", but what? -luther ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 10:29:36 -0700 From: Danielle Subject: I like to be in America Rich 'Jingoism' Plumb wrote: > The fact that the US has always been a beacon of freedom and opportunity > to the rest of the world as well as an inspiration cannot be denied. Uh, yes it can. Or at least rigorously questioned. Your insular viewpoint is amusing (in a kind of ' Oh *please*.' way), but not really accurate. Danielle, who thinks America's relationship with the rest of the world is *far*, FAR more complex than that, dammit NP Goldie, which somehow goes rather well with the crisp autumn weather ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:56:57 -0800 From: Alex Martin Subject: Re: Politics is Way Off Topic Mr "Capitalism Blows" said in response to > > "overwhelmingly more horrifying" than those of other countries. Depends > on your criteria for horror, I guess.> > > again, sorry. i meant, taken in total. considering we've been at it > for two hundred years -- compared with hitler's twelve, for example. You are deluded. We've never in our history done anything as heinous as Hitler. I will concede that america has never done anything as genocidal to it's own people as hitler did. However you came close with the de facto aparteid that existed in america until the 1950's. The massive illegal bombing of Laos and Cambodia in 60's and 70's the Iran Contra, Nicaragua Grenada etc. stuff in the 80's and the repeated attacks on Iraqui civilians in the 90's. > and considering that we've been the only global hegemon in history, and that > we've had the most destructive weapons in history at our disposal. I would call the Romans a global hegemon in their day. A relatively much more horrifying regime than ours. When the romans conqered a territory they introduced aqueducts, libraries ,education etc. and they also extended roman citizenship to many of the conquered peoples. With the exception of Japan and Germany everywhere America used force has been the worse off for it. > we're also obviously responsible for crimes carried out with our weapons > and approval. this is your opinion. oh I forgot which crimes are these? Massacare of kurds by Iraq. Massacare of sandinistas by Contras. Massacare of everyone in the country by Nicaraguan elites. Massacare of anyone who got in America's way ever. > and for crimes made possible or facilitated by our intransigence in the u.n. which intransigence is this? The not paying the 10 billion dollars (U.S.) America owes in membersip dues intransigence . > and let's don't forget economic warfare, which is often every bit and > even a little more destructive than incendiary warfare. this is a real stretch. what is the US supposed to do roll over? How about that accepting that no nation has a right to meddle in the interal affairs of another? I just want to say that you are hopelessly misguided and in relative terms the US is the most benign superpower in the history of the human race. The paradox of course being "benign superpower" As I think it was Trudeau (sp?) said something like, When your sleeping with an elephant it's slightest action will affect you. Obviously we've committed crimes, but never in our history have we done anything compared to Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler to name a few. Of course slaughtering the Indians seems pretty nasty in this day and age, but imperialism was common before the 20th century and not considered the crime against humanity it is today. No. Imperialisim is acceptable as long as it is the U.S. that has the empire in question. I don't love computers... Thats just something I say to get them into bed. - Terry Pratchett. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:33:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Renaissance (0% US-Bashing) I've recently discovered this cool, old, band called Renaissance, and I'd like to suggest that any of you who find cheap copies around go and buy them. I can't think of a good way to describe them, they're sort of orchestral prog-pop (reminiscent of Supertramp with an orchestra [I'm the kind of person who thinks that "Crime of the Century" is far superior to "On Avery Island", but that might just be because I've never had to listen to a Supertramp-saturated radio playlist]) Anyhow, I think you ought to buy it. (And I'd contribute to that other thread, but I don't think it really matters if you view the US's past as good or evil. As a Catholic, I think that this "condemn a group for something that happened in the distant past" thing is flat-out lame, and that being pissed at the US for recent events won't really accomplish anything. Or rather, being pissed at the US for recent events on this forum won't accomplish anything.) Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 21:33:56 -0400 From: tanter Subject: Re: I like to be in America At 10:29 AM 4/26/1998 -0700, you wrote: >> The fact that the US has always been a beacon of freedom and opportunity >> to the rest of the world as well as an inspiration cannot be denied. "Always?" hardly. The US has NOT been a beacon of freedom and opportunity. The Americans were blasted by the Europeans for not stopping slavery earlier, for example. Our years of huge immigration were not caused by people desperate to come here, they were caused by the insane oppression faced by those people in their homelands. The US allowed them to come here, so they came. The Dick Whittington myth is just that, a myth. Freedom and opportunity have only been available, in their true forms, to a small percentage of the population. There are people in this country today who live under various forms of oppression and can't escape them. Who still looks to us for inspiration? Do any fegs from other countries long to live in the US, to become US citizens? Why or why not? Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 19:34:49 -0700 From: John Barrington Jones Subject: Re: Tori (2% RH) >Woj said > ><< tori's songs speak in her highly symbolic and personal language. asking her > to write plainly would be like asking a fish to walk or breath. > > btw, i found this an odd comment coming from a robyn hitchcock fan. sure, > he's made a move away from his dense and obscure lyrical past, but he's > still fairly obtuse and his between-song story hasn't gotten any less > surreal. >> Then Michael said: > Well, even though Robyn's lyrics are generally fairly odd, they almost >always succeed at hitting the nail right on the head, for me. And I >definitely wasn't saying that Tori should change her lyrical style at all. In >fact, I had meant to praise her lyric writing on "Little Earthquakes". And I say: I, too, am a big fan of lyric writing from "Little Earthquakes". That album is what hooked me, made me a Tori fan, and kept me buying the singles and the next two albums. Fact is, the lyrics in each subsequent album became less and less upfront and confessional, and more and more "out there." All of this probably due to Tori having to deal with fans, dj's, etc. trying to pry her open, expecting more juicy and gory details about all the goings on of her life. At a point where each album has brought her more and more popularity and fans, she has to be less and less open in order to keep some sort of semblance of privacy and "a life". That said, I've heard about 1/2 of the new album (I have it in .mp3 form---if you need some of these, let me know and we can work something out), and if anything, it will be known as the "miscarriage album"--two or three songs are about the miscarriage she had in late 1996. And a final note about Tori: (well, not a note, maybe a question or a plea:) I'd like to see some of you Tori fans give me some examples of lyrics that make you go, "huh???" Here is one that comes to mind for me: I've got Big Bird on a fishing line. Michael also said: >I was once a >*huge* Tori fan (had all the CD singles, watched the videos, videotaped >interviews that she did, etc.). Me too! I buy less and less and pay less and less attention with each new album. If this keeps up, by the time the next cd comes out (not the one due in a few weeks), I will be all like, "Tori Amos? Never heard of her." (and mean it!!) china, decorates our table! ha ha ha - -jbj ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:45:21 -0400 From: Christy Cohen Subject: The Bird w/the Lightbulb Head It's all just a big conspiracy - I was programmed as a kid to listen to Robyn. I was going through some old boxes left over from moving, and found some of my childhood hardback books, one in particular that I've always hung on to - "The Ice Cream Cone Coot and Other Rare Birds." It was printed in 1971, I'm not quite sure where my mother got it at. It features artwork of several different "breeds" of birds made of odd materials such as the "Plugsocket Swift" and a little ditty for each one (The Plugsocket Swift is a high-voltage bird. His head is a lightbulb, or so I have heard.) I'd swear the author and illustrator were both indulging in some serious Hitchcock at the time it was printed, but this was pre-Soft Boys. Has anybody else ever seen this book? christy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 20:48:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: The Bird w/the Lightbulb Head On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Christy Cohen wrote: > "The Ice Cream Cone Coot and Other Rare Birds." It > was printed in 1971 > Has anybody else ever seen this book? I had this book. Wish I still did. Did you say you recently found it? Can you give me some info so I can check Powell's or something? This book is seriously messed up. Big fun. I loved it. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 23:52:50 EDT From: KarmaFuzzz Subject: Re: I like to be in America [summary in one couplet] "It was a fine idea at the time now it's a brilliant mistake......" - -the little hands of concrete ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:49:25 +0800 (CST) From: Jon Fetter Subject: Re: Kryst Hassles... >We have some cool similar shows out west. I think Shatner's tragicomic do >of "Mr. Tamborine Man" is simply amazing. > >annoyingly youse alls, >-markg But not half as amazing as Leonard Nimoy's "Proud Mary," which is actually listenable (especially after Shatner). Spock Rocks! Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------- There might be a signature here. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:42:52 PDT From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: Politics is Way Off Topic <> and for crimes made possible or facilitated by our intransigence in the u.n. which intransigence is this? The not paying the 10 billion dollars (U.S.) America owes in membersip dues intransigence> even worse is the vetoing of security council resolutions, usually facilitating the, "massacre of anyone who got in our way, ever." moynihan boasts in his memoirs about having prevented the un from taking any action when indonesia invaded east timor (yes, using weapons we gave them,) and ultimately carrying out the greatest genocide since the holocaust. the "situation in the middle east," as the un calls it, has been directed by u.s. force, in complete oppostion to un/world opinion. votes like 150-2 in the general assembly, calling for israel to end the occupation were an annual feature until the gulf war, when me proved yet again that we're only too happy to, "massacre anyone who got in our way, ever." the votes fell on deaf ears anyway, of course. there are lots more examples, as we can imagine. <[I'm the kind of person who thinks that "Crime of the Century" is far superior to "On Avery Island", but that might just be because I've never had to listen to a Supertramp-saturated radio playlist])> i haven't heard AVERY ISLAND, much to my dismay. but CRIME OF THE CENTURY is one of the best indictments of capitalism ever set to music. and you can take that to the bank, daddy. "The Dude abides"...I don't know about you, but i take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there, "The Dude," takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shesh...I sure hope he makes the finals. --The Stranger ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #160 *******************************