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Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #151
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fegmaniax-digest        Sunday, April 19 1998        Volume 07 : Number 151



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: Until The End + soundtrack plug  [sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain)]
  Newsgroup post (ha)                             [Eb <gondola@deltanet.com>]
  Re: Newsgroup post (ha)                  [Capuchin <capuchin@teleport.com>]
  Long, multi-thread babble, as usual    [Danielle <inadibor@sinesurf.co.nz>]
  Re: Long, multi-thread babble, as usual         [Eb <gondola@deltanet.com>]
  Re: Robyn Hitchcock (0% NMH content)  ["Wookie Conscious" <brasheas@coral.]
  unedited?                             [dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)]
  watch your intelligence               [dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)]
  Re: Long, multi-thread babble, as usual   [dmw <dmayowel@access.digex.net>]
  "propmos" for sale                               [woj spice <woj@smoe.org>]
  more on Robyn in SF               ["chris franz" <chris_franz@hotmail.com>]
  Eb<Paul<Ner ad infinitum            [Paul Montagne <montagnp@ucs.orst.edu>]
  Re: watch your intelligence  [Christopher Gross <chrisg@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu]
  Re: "propmos" for sale                      [Gary Assassin <gsa@panix.com>]
  Garden Path (unknown % RH content)          [Gary Assassin <gsa@panix.com>]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:09:50 -0500
From: sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain)
Subject: Re: Until The End + soundtrack plug

>Until the End of the World is probably my favorite pop-song soundtrack
>ever. Great stuff. However, it's somewhat of a "cheat," because very few of
>the songs play any estimable role in the film. It's almost like Wenders got
>all these songs FIRST, and then had to figure out how to slip them into the
>film somehow, without distracting anyone from the story.

This is very very true. I almost wonder if the "hit soundtrack" wasn't in
part put together for the financiers'  benefit, because they'd invested a
lot of money in a film that was probably not going to be a blockbuster and
wanted to cover at least a bit of their ass. Since as you say, in general
Wenders uses soundtracks very very well, I'm thinking this might be an
explanation.

>So, great soundtrack. But not well-used in the film.

One of the few really solid pop soundtracks I've heard that was -also- well
used in the film was the music in "Goodfellas". Of course none of those were
done especially for the film, and so that's a little different- using songs
one already has feelings/memories associated with is somewhat easier than
trying to work in a totally new pop song soundtrack.

Incidentally, the only real complaint I have about that soundtrack is that
not everything from the movie is on it. It would be really slammin' if it
had -everything-.

>On the other hand, I think Paris Texas, The State of Things and Wings of
>Desire all exploited their soundtracks to maximum effect.

The "Paris, Texas" soundtrack is also wonderful on its own. It was actually
the soundtrack album that made me want to see the movie.

Love on ya,
Susan

WXRT rocks! It's been forever since I've heard "Memo from Turner", which I
just heard a few minutes ago (speaking of good soundtracks! And good movies,
too). 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 23:39:19 -0700
From: Eb <gondola@deltanet.com>
Subject: Newsgroup post (ha)

And I once had a nasty argument with this guy, too. ;) He claims that the
main reason why critics don't like prog is that they all just copy Lester
Bangs.... <groan>

More daring lyrically than Robyn, eh? Heh heh.

Eb

> From: bullet@acadiacom.net
> Newsgroups: rec.music.progressive
> Subject: Neutral Milk Hotel - "In The Aeroplane Over The Sea"
> Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:44:05 GMT
>
> This CD is NOT going to appeal to you fans of tightly arranged and
> structured prog or prog/metal, but to those of you who believe that
> the word "progressive" means a lot more than just playing in kinky
> time signatures real fast, then listen...there is something here.
>
> I personally think that this CD is the product of pure insane vision
> and is easily on the level of Captain Beefheart's "Trout Mask Replica"
> or Syd Barrett's "The Madcap Laughs."  This is the sound of someone
> who does not give a good goddamn about being on MTV or on the cover of
> Spin magazine, a complete loony running to the cliffside of
> consciousness and flinging himself into the void of pure surrealism,
> and singing about what he finds there.
>
> Instrumentation: mostly acoustic guitar, and no chord progressions
> that are too peculiar, but when the rest of the band kicks in with
> mellophone, bowed fuzz bass, musical saw (!!!), banjo, drums, and
> zanzithophone (whatever the hell that is), combined with the
> absolutely insane and beautiful lyrics, we are talking about a key to
> ascension that Jon Anderson thought not of.
>
> Key influences - um.  Robert Wyatt, Capt. Beefheart, Syd Barrett,
> maybe Robyn Hitchcock (but he's a bit more daring than Robyn
> lyrically) ... oh hell, just GET IT, will you? This is the most
> angelic, demented thing I have heard in quite some time.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:07:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Capuchin <capuchin@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup post (ha)

> > From: bullet@acadiacom.net
> > Newsgroups: rec.music.progressive
> > Subject: Neutral Milk Hotel - "In The Aeroplane Over The Sea"
> > Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:44:05 GMT
> >
> > Instrumentation: mostly acoustic guitar, and no chord progressions
> > that are too peculiar, but when the rest of the band kicks in with
> > mellophone, bowed fuzz bass, musical saw (!!!), banjo, drums, and
> > zanzithophone (whatever the hell that is), combined with the
> > absolutely insane and beautiful lyrics, we are talking about a key to
> > ascension that Jon Anderson thought not of.

Why does the saw get three exclamation points and no mention at all of the
trumpet, flugelhorn, or trombone?  I think there might even be a baritone
horn in there somewhere.

Drums, the man says.  Oh really?  Daring and unexpected!

> > Key influences - um.  Robert Wyatt, Capt. Beefheart, Syd Barrett,
> > maybe Robyn Hitchcock (but he's a bit more daring than Robyn

Yeah, whatever.

Although I really thought one of those songs (Oh, Comely?) sounded Sydlike
at first listen.
J.  -- feeling very cynical after a trip to the folks' place tonight.
np. Cyndi Lauper.  Go figure.
________________________________________________________

J A Brelin	<Capuchin@teleport.com>		Capuchin
________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:29:55 -0700
From: Danielle <inadibor@sinesurf.co.nz>
Subject: Long, multi-thread babble, as usual

James mused:
> There's a TV ad which starts "here's what you said you wanted in a
> tampon!". Actually, no-one asked me, and I'm not sure what I'd answer if
> they did...
Our discussion centred on which techniques would be most effective for
hurling said products at a performer (in this case, Meredith Brooks). On
that basis, you'd want them to be pretty aerodynamic, I think. When
those telephone market researchers ring you, James, be sure to let them
know.

Luther wrote:
> ...Besides..."Glen or Glenda" was the WORST movie Eddie Wood
> ever made...
No, that honour goes to 'Bride of the Atom/Monster'. I especially liked
the bit where Bella is meant to morph into some sort of radioactive
mutant and scare the crap out of everyone. So he puts on platform shoes
and...

No, that's it. He puts on some platform shoes. Yeah, *I* was packing
myself (there's some Kiwi slang for you, Ebby). ;)

Cartman's father (dammit, I want to know! When do we get that episode?),
aka Glen, wrote:
> The recent remake of "The Island Of Dr. Moureau" -- I like weird shit, but
> this movie went a bit too far. What was up with that little monkey man,
> anyway?
I have not seen this film, mainly because it seems silly to see a movie
solely on the basis that you're on your way to actually *becoming* 'Dr
Moreau' (only one u, thanks), *and* you live on an island (for the time
being, at least). I mean, it would just be too cutesy for words. (Maybe,
to live up to the name, I could do a quail/rabbit hybrid, and set it
loose somewhere to scare certain listmembers...) Not to mention that my
countryman Temuera Morrison is in it, and I didn't want to watch him
embarrass himself. The preview for Speed 2 was enough for me.

>From Susan D:
> I can deal with loose plots, if the
> characters are interesting and the dialogue is sharp I hardly notice them,
> but I get very very bored when movies have no characters in them.
Yes, yes and yes. Exactly. I suppose that counts as a 'me too'. Sorry.

Also:
> "Until The End of the World", which makes a lot more
> sense than the official release and is a better film altogether (though
> actually I seem to be virtually alone in having liked the offical release
> when it came out as well, even though it was so obviously chopped up you
> could even spot the points where huge chunks had been cut). Everyone talked
> at the time about how self-indulgent and wasteful that film was....
I liked it, and the soundtrack too, but I've never seen the immensely
long version. I was fascinated during the 3 hours of the cinema released
version, though - obviously not an entirely successful film, but so damn
interesting! I saw it in a big theatre, and during 'part two', when Sam
Neill said in horror: 'you're like junkies, hooked on your dreams!',
everyone in the audience laughed but me - I really *was* upset by the
prospect! :)

Solveig Dommartin's wig was pretty cool, too.

On the kid lit thing: I *love* good 'young adult' books. That five-book
series by Susan Cooper, The Dark is Rising, is *wonderful*. Intelligent
and spooky and varied and well-crafted and 'meaty'. And Margaret Mahy's
novels (don't know whether you can get them overseas, but they've won
all sorts of awards), especially The Changeover, are marvellous. And to
move away from sf (in the 'speculative fiction' sense) for a bit, I'm
the only K. M. Peyton fan left in the Western world, seems like, even if
she did win Carnegie Medals galore. Does no one remember Flambards? Or
the Pennington trilogy? <sigh> It may be around thirty years old, but
Patrick Pennington is one of the sexiest male characters I've ever come
across. Bitter teen rebel b/w brilliant pianist! Stroke of fookin'
genius!

Let's not start on my obsession with British girls' boarding school
stories from the 1920s-50s, though. Enough torture for one night. :)

Rich wrote:
> Can I also send you recommendations of cool new music while I'm 
> pompously insulting you?
Yeah, that sounds rockin'. But I've got a better idea. How about you and
James get together, and send us a joint recommendation post on cool new
*flags* while pompously insulting us? ;) 

Also:
> Fierce Creatures and Chasing Amy were the most abominable
> things I saw in the last year with The Full Monty close behind (bad pun
> alert).
Yes, Fierce Creatures was dire. Chasing Amy was OK (then again, don't
believe me. I'm the only person on earth who thought Mallrats was
adorable). The Full Monty was a cute enough wee flick. Even if it does
bear a startlingly close resemblance to a decade-old New Zealand play
called Ladies' Night, which toured Britain very successfully... hmmm...

Luther wrote:
> let's face it, the whole cast of "Star trek" except Lenny
> Nimoy SUCKED! and their later roles did too!
No argument here. But isn't that the joy of being an original series
Trekkie? Well, it is for me. All 79 episodes have their 'oh my GOD'
lowlights (most of which I can quote word for word), and despising
Shatner is like a little mini-religion. ;)

James wrote:
> Ed Hillary should
> always be known as "Mister Ed". (Of course he's Sir Ed now, but why spoil a
> good story...)
I slept in Sir Edmund Hillary's bed once. It's my one claim to fame.

> Hmmm. Have I started another analogy? Do we have Terry "Big Bird" Marks?
> Capuchin and The Great Quail as Bert and Ernie? Is Bayard Grover? Is
> DavefromOz Mr Snuffalopagus? Is Susan the Cookie Monster? Kermit the woj?
I wouldn't presume to be a main character, but can I volunteer to be the
daughter in that little, extra dumb, blue miniature family? They're my
favourites. 'We'll take the CAR to the zoo!'

Eb wrote:
> Personally, I'd love to see the resurrection of the, er, Australian/UK
> slang name-calling thread. ;) 
> Uh, Quail, Dlang, Danielle...?
Sorry, luv, I'm utterly shagged. Rooted. Muntered. Moving flats, you
know. Leave it up to Dlang. He seems to have given you a good swift kick
up the jacksy. Which you deserve, for lumping me in with those Aussie
wankers. ;)

And, re the fegetiquette thread:
> Hey, I've seen almost the exact same post SEVERAL times on other mailing
> lists, when it was *deadly* serious. Anyone here who was ever unfortunate
> enough to join COSTELLO-L can probably back this up.
Yes, it's true. We don't talk about tampons *nearly* enough. 

Also (it's a Wenders-heavy post):
> In the original, the woman was a trapeze artist. In City of Angels, she's a
> surgeon. Hmmmm. 
> I'm guessing that she's probably a "plucky" surgeon, besides.
Why, of course she is. Gallantly battling on in an inhumane metropolis,
staring death in the face every day with courage and skill... bleuch.
I'm looking forward to this scarily mediocre-sounding remake almost as
much as I'm looking forward to the Avengers movie.

>From Dave Lang:
> My oath ,you would would you ,you bloody bludger? Well Mr sticky beak
> ,don't just think that us true blue fair dinkum Aussie battlers and
> Anzacs will just churn out the vernacular for your benefit at your say
> so , because it won't work....
> Yours disgustedly , written in the  horizontal position on the floor of
> the local Returned Serviceman's League in a pool of drivel...
Listen, *I'll* be at my branch of the Returned Serviceman's Association
on Saturday next, *after* the dawn parade, wearing *five* poppies,
drinking Lion Red, and telling whoever will listen that those bloody
Aussies took all the credit for Gallipoli, when *we* did all the
fighting. And bring on those underarm bowlers, too! We'll get a six next
time... ;) 

>From Capitalism Blows:
> well, i thought she was great in Hudsucker Proxy.  but, i would, 
> wouldn't i?
ARGH!!! Hudsucker Proxy is my pet annoying Jennifer Jason Leigh role! It
is the role I point to when I want to expound on my 'she's so mannered!'
theory! Still liked the movie, but *god*, she irritated me.

Danielle, now *really* wishing she had more than eight CDs left in the
house...
NP Eric Matthews. Yes, I like him lots and lots, but not for the
twentieth time this week. <sigh>

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 02:59:56 -0700
From: Eb <gondola@deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: Long, multi-thread babble, as usual

>Our discussion centred on which techniques would be most effective for
>hurling said products at a performer (in this case, Meredith Brooks). On
>that basis, you'd want them to be pretty aerodynamic, I think.

They would probably fly farther if you got them wet first, somehow.

Eb

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:22:37 -0500
From: "Wookie Conscious" <brasheas@coral.indstate.edu>
Subject: Re: Robyn Hitchcock (0% NMH content)

> on 4/17/98 "Wookie Conscious" brownnosed:
> >
> > is this mean-spirited?
> >
> Is which mean-spirited?

any of it.

> > hey, i just want to say that i like the off topic stuff better than 
> > the 'relevant' stuff. i've been introduced to tons of new bands (tall 
> > dwarfs, momus, high llamas,  incredible string band all come to mind) 
> > and if it wasn't for neutral milk hotel, then i would have gone 
> > through with the suicide attempt last month. 
> > and eb, you make life worth living. 
> > what's robyn hitchcock doing anyway? we have to talk about something...-
> >
> This is utterly moronic.  Eb in a completely uncalled for manner
> overreacted wildly to a very mild slightly amusing little post.

hey! moronic? what the hell did i say up there that could be 
considered moronic? utterly moronic even! 

> Can I also send you recommendations of cool new music while I'm 
> pompously insulting you?  

yes, please do.

> Meanwhile Neutral Milk Hotel if you haven't noticed is being heavily
> hyped in every music publication in this end of the galaxy.  I'm sure 
> your suicide could have been prevented.

haven't noticed. i'm too much of a moron to actually understand the 
language of those publications. 

thanks.

- --shane

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:24:34 GMT
From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)
Subject: unedited?

On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:54:24 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

><Butchered is a good word. Consider in this vein also the
>unedited version of "Until The End of the World"...>
>i can't believe you didn't mention The Man Who Fell To Earth, susan, 
>that being one of your ten fave movies and all.  

	There is an uneditied rendition? I like what I have seen of
the original on TV (though it is a rather badly filmed movie, IMO).
What is in the unedited one? 
	I thought the whole concept of the ultra-intelligent alien
getting corrupted by humanity was brilliant.

	-luther

	n.p. David Bowie, "Earthlings"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:37:54 GMT
From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich)
Subject: watch your intelligence

On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 18:54:24 -0400 (EDT), you wrote:

>The other point is really the thing that's touchy. It's not the concept of a
>mentally handicapped person being successul or the impact that one person's
>goodness has on the people around him that really rankles. These are both
>fine things. It has to do with the fact that American culture does not like
>smart people. This is so old a bias that it even long ago trickled down to
>language- "smart-ass" "smart aleck" "smart mouth" &c., which are insults.
>And people who -are-  noticeably smart are picked on as children and as
>adolescents, and even in adulthood are often supposed to smother it or at
>the very least be overly modest so that other people don't "feel bad"
>(actually when I was growing up my mom advised me to "tone it down" and not
>talk about books so much because other kids would feel bad and not like me).
>As one of these "smart kids" (and I know full well there are lots of others
>lurking around this list :)) I am very very weary of this shit.
	We all are!

 I mean, if I
>can slamdunk like Michael Jordan then every thinks I'm really cool, but if I
>know more words than some other people I'm not supposed to let on so that
>they don't feel bad about it.  I mean, I don't get angry or get an
>inferiority complex because other people are better at slamdunking or guitar
>playing or physics than I am. If someone uses a word or expression I don't
>know, I ask them what it is and am glad to have learned something, I don't
>get all het up about "you show-off using these ten dollar words". What the
>hell is that about? Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and it would
>be nice to be valued for mine without the majority of people thinking I'm
>egotistical and elitist just because I use a word they don't know. It's
>really really frustrating. And so when I see something like "Forrest Gump"
>being celebrated it makes me feel a little resentful, and I suspect that
>this is how others on this list who objected to the film feel as well. It
>feels like another slam on our intelligence, only with a feel-good veneer. 

	AMEN!

	As an unabbashed, unrepentant smart person, I agree
completely. 	America DOES NOT respect intelligence! I was just
talking to some friends about this last night.  The people that got
everything in college were the "cookie cutters" (ya'll know who I'm
talking about...the jocks that made fun of Robyn).  These were the
assholes that were cool, got all the women, fu#ked over our female
friends, etc. ad nauseum.  

	The great thing is, though, in this age of high technology,
THEY are the ones who are now obsolete. ("What's an internet, dude?"
(conversation actually over heard in a bar))

	In great britian, people like Desmond Morris ("the human
animal", "the human sexes") and James Burke ("COnnections 1,2, and 3")
get their own TV shows...they wouldn't here. (that said, The Learning
Channel and DIscovery Channel has a pretty high following in this
country...
	Anybody remember that epsisode of Northern Exposure when
Holling had that whole thing about his indiffernece to sports?)
	
	To a certain extent, this country was BUILT on ignorance and
brute strength, Manifest Destiny and all that stuff. (You couldn't
tell it, but I am part Cherokee, so I tend to disagree).	 

	So, what do we do about it?

	any ideas?

	(I personally tend to think the solution is to strike the
Patti Smith- "I'm smart, I'm an american artist, white-nigger, fuck
you" stance.)

		-luther

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:19:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: dmw <dmayowel@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Long, multi-thread babble, as usual

On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Danielle earned my undying admiration:

> On the kid lit thing: I *love* good 'young adult' books. That five-book
> series by Susan Cooper, The Dark is Rising, is *wonderful*. Intelligent
> and spooky and varied and well-crafted and 'meaty'. And Margaret Mahy's

i'd like a special dispensation for this me-too post, 'cause i've been
waiting >years< for someone else to have heard of cooper's books.  so just
be thankful i'm spewing a long list of other worthwhile young adult
literature at the list instead of a marriage proposal to Danielle, which
was pretty much my first inclination. 

sorry if any of these've been mentioned already, but: lloyd alexander's
prydain chronicles are really fab and the unrelated solo novel _the
marvelous misadventures of sebastian_ is maybe even better -- alexander is
into sensitive reworkings of traditional mythic tropes, his prose is
solid, his grasp of character is good, and he has more than enough twists
to keep his work from seeming familiar -- it seems resonant instead. 
sadly, some of his more recent stuff seems like hackwork -- i read a
couple books with a young indiana jones-styled adventuress with an overtly
jeevesian guardian that were pretty dreadful. 

dianna wynne jones has a couple good books out; i particularly liked
_hexwood_, though i haven't yet found a copy of _dogsbody_ which seems to
be the popular favorite.  without giving too much away, _hexwood_ puts the
arthurian mythos in a chrono-blender set to puree, and reminded me of
_hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy_ to boot. 

>someone< must have already mentioned l'engle's _wrinkle in time_ trilogy,
right?

and john bellairs' _the house with the clock in its walls_ and, to a
lesser degree, its sequels, good spooky stuff, slightly menacing magic in
a modern setting

did anyone else ever read _no flying in the house_? can't remember the
author, it's been years since i saw my copy.  dark undercurrent despite
the goofy title. 

soft spot in the heart also for: roald dahl (much creepier and more
unsettling than the movies they keep making), danny dunn and his magic
chemistry set, most of heinlein's ya novels (better than his "real" ones
by half, for the most part) jeez, too many to recount, really... 

obtopic: i'm sure robyn would have liked some of these books, especially
given his stated admiration for peake. 

- -- d.

- - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net
- - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/
- - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 11:52:19 -0400
From: woj spice <woj@smoe.org>
Subject: "propmos" for sale

>  From:  Brian Dorbuck 
>  Newsgroups:  alt.music.pink-floyd
>  Subject:  Robyn Hitchcock for sale
>  Date:  Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:25:10 -0400
>  Organization:  United States Internet, Inc.
>
>  Hi,
>
>  I have 2 propmo CD's of Robyn Hitchcock for sale:
>
>  Madonna and the Wasps 
>  Oceanside with full colour cover
>
>  Will take $20 for both
>
>  Brian
>
>  nanook@usit.net

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 10:05:26 PDT
From: "chris franz" <chris_franz@hotmail.com>
Subject: more on Robyn in SF

Anyone going to the Storefront Hitchcock show on the 28th is welcome to 
join up beforehand at the Patio Cafe, one block down Castro Street from 
the theater.  A reservation in the name of Mr. Feg has been made for 
7PM.  (SH showtime is 9:30.)

And if you can get to the area sooner than that, feel free to stop in on 
the traveling PacNW trio and me at my flat a couple of blocks away.  
Email me if interested.

in other news...

The Great American Music Hall show will be "presented" by KALX, the 
college station in Berkeley.  I talked to some of the people there about 
whether Robyn will be in their studio at some point; nobody seemed sure, 
but one person there said that last time Robyn was in town he stopped by 
and "spun some records" with one of their DJs.  I'll keep checking.

Opening for Robyn at the GAMH will be somebody named Cheri Knight, 
formerly of a band called the Blood Oranges.

- - Chris

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 09:49:00 -0700
From: Paul Montagne <montagnp@ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: Eb<Paul<Ner ad infinitum

>> Hey Eb, 
> >Give it a break. Who made you mister feg etiquette. 
>>- -Paul
>Hey Paul,Give it a break. Who made you mister Eb etiquette. 
>- -Ner

Heh heh heh...

Paul

np: I have Seen the Sleeping Nights of Ebness
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paul Montagne
Faculty Research Assistant
Oregon State University
Department of Civil, Construction, and Environmental Engineering
Phone: 541.737.3319  Fax: 541.737.3052
Email: montagnp@ucs.orst.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:35:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christopher Gross <chrisg@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Subject: Re: watch your intelligence

On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, David W. Dudich wrote:

> >It has to do with the fact that American culture does not like
> >smart people. This is so old a bias that it even long ago trickled down to
> >language- "smart-ass" "smart aleck" "smart mouth" &c., which are insults.
[snip!]
> 	As an unabbashed, unrepentant smart person, I agree
> completely. 	America DOES NOT respect intelligence! I was just
> talking to some friends about this last night.  The people that got
> everything in college were the "cookie cutters" (ya'll know who I'm
> talking about...the jocks that made fun of Robyn).  These were the
> assholes that were cool, got all the women, fu#ked over our female
> friends, etc. ad nauseum.  

I tend to agree with Susan and David here, but I would add that this is
not just an American trait.  (It might be stronger in America than in some
other countries, though.)  James Burke might have gotten his own TV show
in the UK, but I'll bet Baywatch got higher ratings that Connections ever
did.  (But then, I'm a cynic.)  Besides, the Learning Channel did revive
Connections in the US for a while, though in an unsatisfying half-hour
format.

If, as I think, this contempt for intelligence is a general human trait,
why should that be?  I think it's because above-average intelligence is
seen as a threat to the social hierarchy.  By social hierarchy I mean the
pecking order of popularity that seems to develop in most human groups,
NOT the hierarchy of social classes.  Think cliques, alpha-males, and
schoolyard gossip, not castes, proletarians and Marx. Intelligence is more
of a threat than good looks or athletic prowess because smart people might
be right when the popular people are wrong, or might even laugh at the
whole pecking order.  What's worse, intelligence isn't as dependent on
popular acknowledgement as other advantages, like good looks, are. 
Finally, smart people are more likely to have weird interests that no one
else shares, so it's hard to place them in the pecking order by their
activities and conversation.  On the whole, if you want a nice comfy
hierarchy it's safest to keep pushing smart folks down to the bottom of
the heap, where their opinions can be automatically ignored.

Of course smart people aren't always hated.  Sometimes they're good to
have around the (white-collar) workplace, where they can help make up for
the lazy and incompetent.  And, in America at least, anyone who's smart
enough to come up with a good scheme for making lots of many will be
accorded a certain grudging respect.

- --Chris

np: Adrian Belew, Inner Revolution (used, $2.99)

______________________________________________________________________
Christopher Gross             On the Internet, nobody knows I'm a dog.
chrisg@gwu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:59:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gary Assassin <gsa@panix.com>
Subject: Re: "propmos" for sale

Propmos!!!!I've been looking for propmos for yeears. Holy shit. I didn't
think anyone in the world had propmos anymore. Wow! I'm going to get these
before anyone else on this list beats me to it. Propmos! Who'd-a-thought.

                     ------------------------------------
If you have a condom and sunscreen SPF 15 or greater, than it's safe to look at
                     http://www.panix.com/~gsa/index.html

On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, woj spice wrote:

> >  From:  Brian Dorbuck 
> >  Newsgroups:  alt.music.pink-floyd
> >  Subject:  Robyn Hitchcock for sale
> >  Date:  Sat, 18 Apr 1998 09:25:10 -0400
> >  Organization:  United States Internet, Inc.
> >
> >  Hi,
> >
> >  I have 2 propmo CD's of Robyn Hitchcock for sale:
> >
> >  Madonna and the Wasps 
> >  Oceanside with full colour cover
> >
> >  Will take $20 for both
> >
> >  Brian
> >
> >  nanook@usit.net
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:01:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gary Assassin <gsa@panix.com>
Subject: Garden Path (unknown % RH content)

Does anyone know of the band Garden Path? I have a record by them called 5
reasons from 1988 or so. This is the band that sometimes used to tour as
the Acid Birds and do an all-RH cover show.

Do they have any other records, CD's?

I know for a fact there are no propmos of this band.

                     ------------------------------------
If you have a condom and sunscreen SPF 15 or greater, than it's safe to look at
                     http://www.panix.com/~gsa/index.html

------------------------------

End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #151
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