From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #149 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, April 18 1998 Volume 07 : Number 149 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: incoherent ramblings... [Nick Winkworth ] Until The End + soundtrack plug [spine@iastate.edu (spine)] Re: Good Bad Movies and Bad Bad Movies [Jeff Cleveringa ] wurst movies [dmw ] Re: Robyn Hitchcock (0% NMH content) [Rich Plumb ] article in SF Examiner/Chronicle (long) ["chris franz" ] Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #147 [sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain)] Gump and Gumper [Eb ] Re: The Kenster [sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:58:09 -0700 From: Nick Winkworth Subject: Re: incoherent ramblings... Susan wrote: > He is a fairly self-protective person and likes his privacy, there's > no doubt on that score, and I think he also enjoys being considered > enigmatic and actively works at it (another reason the Dylan parallel > came to mind immediately :)). But a person who is completely resistant > to letting others into their world wouldn't spend so much time > creating and dispatching bulletins from said world. IMHO, the drive to > create is also (among other things) the drive to communicate. Of > course it's self-contradictory but then, to paraphrase Whitman, the > man contains multitudes :). Very nicely put. An good depiction of the dichotomy of our man. It is an interesting fact, however, that many actors and musicians who seem very extrovert and public in their work, are private and introverted when they're away from the limelight. I don't think Robyn is so unusual in this respect. > P.S. Is "Peter's Friends" really the worst movie you've ever seen, > Monsieur Godwin? See "Lisztomania" and then get back to me :). I missed Mike's original post, but I have to concur. This is the worst movie *I* have ever seen, made even worse buy the quality of the acting talent going to waste before my eyes. (Whatever possessed Emma Thompson to agree to say "fill me with your little babies"? I'm feeling sick just thinking of it...) This is not to say that there *aren't* worse movies, of course, but since I don't get many opportunities to see movies these days, I *try* to ensure that the ones I do see are good. As you can tell, I don't get it right every time... Someone (James?) added: > Fry is better when paired with Hugh Laurie. The two did an offbeat but > frequently funny stand up/sketch show "A bit of Fry and Laurie", and > were excellent in a TV adaptation of the Wodehouse "Jeeves and > Wooster" stories. Yes indeed. I particularly like their Jeeves and Wooster series. ~N ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 98 16:07:17 -500 From: spine@iastate.edu (spine) Subject: Until The End + soundtrack plug > ladies in Dubuque. Butchered is a good word. Consider in this vein also the > unedited version of "Until The End of the World", which makes a lot more > sense than the official release and is a better film altogether (though > actually I seem to be virtually alone in having liked the offical release > when it came out as well, even though it was so obviously chopped up you > could even spot the points where huge chunks had been cut). > liked the official release of "Until The End of the World" so much I was > willing to sit through the other, longer version. And I'm also a little Wow. I've seen it on video, and I loved it. It was quite long--two and a half to three hours--but mentioned nothing about being the "special unedited version" or "director's cut." Therefore, I'm assuming what I've seen is the butchered cut. Is the longer version on video as well, or just laser disc or something like that? How long is the longer version? I heard from a Wenders-headed friend once that it was meant to be 16 or 18 hours long or something in the beginning--is it anywhere near this? The soundtrack's great, too, with a fantastic Talking Heads song which they'd saved for the film (it would've sounded great on _Naked_) and one of R.E.M.'s most moving songs ever, "Fretless." Worth checking out. - --spine ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:39:30 -0700 From: Jeff Cleveringa Subject: Re: Good Bad Movies and Bad Bad Movies >>different expectations of the movies they watch, but I could never split a >>sandwich with anyone who doesn't think this knee-weakeningly awesome. > >Remind me never to go to lunch with you :). And I was thinking specifically of a sloppy joe. >I seem to have this weird block about movies that are almost all >spectacle, where most of the ideas are visual . . . I can deal with loose plots, if the >characters are interesting and the dialogue is sharp I hardly notice them, >but I get very very bored when movies have no characters in them. I'm very >VERY weary of big spectacular movies with no real human dimension. If I >don't care about the people, it doesn't hold my interest. Oh I can relate. But there is a huge difference between Munchausen and something like Titanic, or some Hollywood car chase crash explosion movie, the difference being something like Titanic or Cleopatra (ever notice how these movies usually have one or two word titles?) is little more than mere gee wiz how'd they do that roller coaster stuff, while a film like Munchausen actually has an underlying philosophy embedded within its images. In the case of Munchausen, and all of Gilliam's work for that matter, this philosophy may in fact be somewhat cornball and cliched when isolated and reduced to sentences on a screen, but nonetheless it remains very dear to me, i.e., the importance of the individual, the irrational as opposed to the rational, the fallacy of blindly toeing the line, the stupidity of bureaucracies, etc. It may not possess truly human characters, but it packs plenty of human dimension. Like all of Gilliam's films, Munchausen is flawed, bogging down in places. Yet how often is someone as talented as Gilliam given a blank check to follow his heart? And how often does such a person damn the consequences and throw all restraint to the wind? But for all of that the film is too long, too dense, and Gilliam's camera far too mobile. >Accusing Glen of being a Black Crowes fan? >If I were him I'd be upset. Them's fightin' words :). I would never accuse my worst enemy of being a Black Crowes fan. Yikes. >>It's not my favorite film or anything, but I liked Forrest Gump. Cripes, if >>you hated Munchausen you should've loved this. > >Er, splain? Again, I'm not trying to be confrontational at all, I'm just >trying to figure out what you mean by that? Because it's a bit more >character based? Yeah, unlike Munchausen, it's narrative also unfolds in character and plot, as well as imagistically. This is why I like Gump actually. Everything it sets out to do it does quite well. It's message may or may not be "Ignorance breeds success. Stay stupid and you'll succeed in spite of it" but it presents that message quite well. On the other hand, I never thought of this: What was really >offensive about it to me is a) the way it presented television as an >objective historical medium although I did notice this: b) the implicit message that counterculture >is a bad bad thing and nothing good could come of being involved in it. Whatever any particular film's message may be, it has nothing to do with whether or not that film is any good. Gump is a relatively well-made film, and even though its message is perhaps wrong (for lack of a better word) it did accurately reflect American culture at the time of its release. In a sense, while it may not raise stupidity to a virtue like, oh, Dumb and Dumber does, it certainly doesn't espouse the virtues of intelligence, does it? Perhaps this is because much of America does not value intelligence. And anyone who despises Gump for this is totally in the right. I too find all this appalling, yet also think Gump a well-made movie. Jeff (retreating back to his seat with the rest of the lurkers) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:48:52 -0700 From: Nick Winkworth Subject: Re: kid lit The prolific Mike Godwin quoth: > PS If we're recommending children's books, 'The weirdstone of > Brisingamen' and its (superior) sequel 'The moon of Gomrath' have the > authentic glamour. Both by Alan Garner. You beat me to it! I was just about to make the same recommendation. Don't forget "Elidor" by the same author. (Oh and Phantom Tollbooth is an all time fave.) ~N PS. It recently came to my attention that JH3 posted something that was a JOKE!! Sheesh. How are we supposed to figure these things out? In future (and in keeping with current accepted Internet practice) could you please all include the delimiters and to avoid confusion. Thanks much. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 19:32:07 -0400 (EDT) From: dmw Subject: wurst movies since there've been so many mentions of lisztomania lately, and since i know there are a few dc based fego folk mr. self aggrandizement will hereby point out that the washington psychotronic film society will screen said flick for any and all curious viewers tues apr 28 at 8pmish. www.wpfs.org fer more details -- tell 'em mr. pathetic sentcha. i died and made me russell etiquette. - -- d. - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:13:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Rich Plumb Subject: Re: Robyn Hitchcock (0% NMH content) on 4/17/98 "Wookie Conscious" brownnosed: > > is this mean-spirited? > Is which mean-spirited? > hey, i just want to say that i like the off topic stuff better than > the 'relevant' stuff. i've been introduced to tons of new bands (tall > dwarfs, momus, high llamas, incredible string band all come to mind) > and if it wasn't for neutral milk hotel, then i would have gone > through with the suicide attempt last month. > and eb, you make life worth living. > what's robyn hitchcock doing anyway? we have to talk about something...- > This is utterly moronic. Eb in a completely uncalled for manner overreacted wildly to a very mild slightly amusing little post. Can I also send you recommendations of cool new music while I'm pompously insulting you? Meanwhile Neutral Milk Hotel if you haven't noticed is being heavily hyped in every music publication in this end of the galaxy. I'm sure your suicide could have been prevented. obAwfulMovie: Fierce Creatures and Chasing Amy were the most abominable things I saw in the last year with The Full Monty close behind (bad pun alert). rich ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:52:36 -0700 From: West Subject: Re: Imitation of Dmytryk amadain wrote: > Anything directed by Edward Dymytryk (I think that's the spelling)- time to > replace the overly-maligned Ed Wood and state the truth, that THIS guy is in > fact the worst director of all-time > Imitation of Life- I know that there are some cineast types who make a case > for this film's "subversiveness" but I think they're overinterpreting > because they think something this bad HAS to be a joke- all -I- saw on the > screen was a truly awful groaner of a melodrama > Actually, Dmytryk (spelling is correct) did bang-up job with The Caine Mutiny, which boasts one of Bogart's best performances. He also directed a couple of terrific films noir, Farewell My Lovely and Crossfire. (I love film noir.) Not that you asked, but my candidate for worst director would have to be Paul Verhoeven. After listening to the man explaining the plot of Basic Instinct (if he actually believes what he said about his intentions, then he has completely failed to tell the story effectively), I decided that I would never watch another of his films again. ESPECIALLY after Starship Troopers; Verhoeven demonstrated once and for all that he adores violence the way the rest of us adore being in the arms of a loved one. And don't hand me that "satire" rebop, either. It just doesn't wash. As for Imitation Of Life--which one? There were two: the 1934 version starred Claudette Colbert, and the 1959 remake (which should be more accurately titled Imitation Of Imitation Of Life) had Lana Turner...unfortunately. Both go great on crackers, but the '59 model surpasses the entire state of Wisconsin in terms of cheese content. Today, the whole thing would merely be an average episode of Jerry Springer. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:29:29 PDT From: "chris franz" Subject: article in SF Examiner/Chronicle (long) The following appeared in Sunday's Datebook section of the San Francisco Examiner & Chronicle, as part of a section on the S.F. Film Festival. - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Songwriter Hitchcock, Front and Off-Center Director Jonathan Demme creates a concert film of the eclectic singer Seeing his image projected on a movie screen for the first time was more than a little disconcerting for songwriter Robyn Hitchcock. ``I couldn't speak for two hours,'' says the consummate absurdist, the subject of Jonathan Demme's new concert movie, ``Storefront Hitchcock.'' ``Imagine a situation where your head is three times life size and your guitar is 12 feet high. Even for the most rampant male ego, that's more than enough.'' The possessor of a British wit as dry as stale crumpets without tea, longtime cult favorite Hitchcock is the inspiration behind Demme's latest foray into concert filmmaking. In 1985, the acclaimed director of ``Philadelphia'' and ``The Silence of the Lambs'' presented the world premiere of his landmark Talking Heads documentary, ``Stop Making Sense,'' at the San Francisco International Film Festival; later this month, Demme's loving portrait of Hitchcock's mostly solo stage show will screen at the Castro Theatre as part of this year's festival. ``He's just riveting and delightful and marvelous,'' Demme says excitedly, ``and the songs are so great. And he's so watchable. He's got such long legs!'' Now 46, Hitchcock has toiled in semi-obscurity for two decades with his bands the Soft Boys and the Egyptians and most recently as a solo act. He's been a lifelong college-radio favorite whose career has never ventured much beyond that realm, despite collaborations with members of R.E.M. and Squeeze and a near-pop hit in 1988 with ``Balloon Man.'' Demme has been a fan -- if not a die-hard one -- for years. ``I started having kids and listening to Raffi,'' he says, ``and traveling to Haiti and listening to Haitian music. But for a minute there, man, I knew everything about cutting-edge music.'' ``I don't think he's been following my career with a magnifying glass,'' Hitchcock jokes. Still, the director saw Hitchcock's unique blend of one-man psychedelia and comic-philosopher monologues as perfect motion-picture fodder. After taking his wife to see Hitchcock perform at a hole in the wall in upstate New York, an awestruck Demme appeared through a trap door in the dressing room, as Hitchcock remembers it. ``I went up to volunteer to do a video if he ever wanted to do one in America,'' Demme says. ``We got to talking about how it's so insane that people lip-synch videos, so we agreed that it would be a synch-sound live-track video. ``And then I'm thinking, `If you're gonna go that far, you might as well make a movie.' And here's a guy that is a movie.'' Hitchcock says Demme's thoughtful, unhurried filming techniques turned out to be the perfect complement for his music. ``My thoughts and stories are very ornate. Things breed very fast in my head -- they come spilling out, then they decay and they're replaced by something else. ``He doesn't attempt to match that with a rococo background. If I was making a movie based around me and my songs, I would probably have things appearing and disappearing around me, a la (Peter Gabriel's) `Sledgehammer' video. And it wouldn't be very original.'' Demme, he notes, adds by subtraction, using little more than a mirror ball or a candle for effect. ``It's the reverse of the modern video approach, where they assume that no one has a concentration span of more than 3 1/2 seconds: Each image is chased away by a new one every couple of seconds -- gloves, girls, guitars, false teeth, telephone dials, old footage of streetcars, chimney tops, condoms, people with elastic faces -- whatever it is. And the idea is you keep intercutting the artist looking soulful in the middle of it. ``Jonathan comes from a very old-world school. He'll find a good angle, and he'll just stay there for 20 seconds. It's probably illegal now.'' As the title indicates, Hitchcock was filmed in performance over two days in a vacant New York City storefront, backdropped by the random actions of passers-by on the sidewalk outside. The idea, Demme says, came from a play he saw in the mid-'80s produced by the Squat Theater. That group's innovation, the director says, ``was such an epiphany. The back of the stage is a window into a whole other world.'' At various times throughout the film, the storefront windows are covered with curtains or multicolored scrims. ``We tried very much for every song to have its own visual personality.'' Demme says he owes a debt to his early mentor, B-movie maker Roger Corman, for the little details of ``Storefront Hitchcock.'' ``He told me, `If you bore the eye, you're going to slide down a slope away from your audience.' '' With Hitchcock as his subject, however, that was not much of an issue to Demme. ``If you gussied it up too much, then this whole idea of the one guy working his butt off out there would fall back,'' Demme says. ``The sparseness is a tribute to our belief in his ability to carry the show.'' A pure-pop songwriter with a kaleidoscopic mind, Hitchcock crams songs such as ``Glass Hotel,'' ``I Something You'' and ``The Yip Song'' with words that are weird for their own sake -- ``viaduct'' and ``obelisk,'' ``Steve'' and ``Bruce.'' Between songs, he lets his fertile imagination run even wilder, addressing career-long obsessions such as the vagaries of our existence (``If it weren't for our rib cages, it'd just be spleens a-go-go'') in off-the-cuff spiels he calls ``verbals.'' ``People can't really define what I do,'' Hitchcock says, suggesting that his wry observations are a sort of performance art. ``Over the years, I think I've refined it. In the old days I used to meander, and now I meander but take the audience with me. And the best way to do that is to make them laugh.'' Demme, who directed ``Swimming to Cambodia,'' the 1987 documentary of Spalding Gray's one-man show, says filming Hitchcock was a much less imposing challenge. ``That was one guy talking. I knew this would be easier --it's one guy talking and singing. There's twice as many things going on.'' With the movie set for commercial release, Demme can't say enough about his subject. ``More than anything, I think the guy is a modern Lewis Carroll. I think Robyn's brilliant. ``He'd be so offended, but I want to say that Robyn's a star, waiting to be discovered.'' ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:04:51 -0600 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: who's bad? (this is long and about movies, delete at will :)) amadain wrote: > The > problem is just that there are times when someone really ought to have told > him "No, Ken. NO! DON'T DO THAT! IT'S RIDICULOUS!" Would you really want him to listen to someone that would say such things on his set? > > the uncut version of "Crimes of Passion" (which I haven't > seen, though I'll now be on the lookout for it) Choose the reddish box (UNRATED) over the blue box (R-RATED/Inferior version). > reminded me of another thing > I really dislike. This is when movies are edited up not for continuity > purposes or other creative motives, but simply because some schmo thinks the > thing is too long or because certain scenes will offend the little old > ladies in Dubuque. Also see: "Once Upon A Time In America" > I still have to say that my favorite is "Lair of the White Worm". Now partly > this is because I really love the films that it comments on, and I really > get a big kick out of, for lack of a better term, vampire comedies (when > they're well-done, that is, I'm not referring to cheese-fests like "Love At > First Bite"). "Vampire's Kiss" and "Fearless Vampire Killers" are favorites > of mine "Lair", it must be noted, was based on a short story by Bram Stoker. (And, Nicholas Cage should have won the Oscar for "Vampire's Kiss" instead of "Leaving Las Vegas") > But partly it's because it makes me think that Ken really missed his calling > in some respects. His style lends itself quite well to horror/comedy > the results were a lot more coherent than many of his other > films because of that- squeezing his huge ideas into genre frameworks more > often would be good for him. That's like saying Martin Scorsese should stick to making "The Color Of Money" rather than another "Kundun" or "Last Temptation", no? /hal ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 01:15:07 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (David W. Dudich) Subject: Night of the lepus? On Fri, 17 Apr 1998 13:04:33 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: > >Have you seen 'Night of the Lepus'? It's the film of the book 'Year of the >Angry Rabbit' (really). These giant flopsy rabbits keep loping round the >screen in slo-mo tearing the throats out of passers-by. My great >unfinished song "Invasion of the Giant Bunnies" is based on this movie. One thing to say: (the actor who played Dr. McCoy from Star drek:) "Roger, look out!" (somebody throws a bunny wabbit, while an explosion is cheaply super-imposed on top). Bad Movie making. let's face it, the whole cast of "Star trek" except Lenny Nimoy SUCKED! and their later roles did too! -luther ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:47:05 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #147 >> > The death of any mailing list is pouting school marms who whine about >> > offtopic content. >> > >> Pot kettle black. Get a fucking life you loser. break! to your corners! This is a NICE LIST. Fegmaniax!, remember? Quirky, zany, eccentric, Syd Barett influenced Fegmaniax! Calm down! Or I shall be forced to organise a pacifist resistance protest containing the following: * a discourse from yours truly on the regional and sultanate flags of Yemen * tab for the complete works of Bob Dylan, courtesy of Terry "the former mellotron" Marks * a heartfelt and lengthy debate on the meaning of life between The Great Quail and Dave from Oz * a list of the 100 best Ray Davies songs, and what makes them great, by Susan D. James (still trying to work out whether Susan was dissing Wings of Desire, one of my all time top ten movies... I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, I think, especially If I have to convince her to get a top 100 together...) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 14:46:56 +1200 From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Can you tell me how to get to de Chirico Street? >Have you seen 'Night of the Lepus'? It's the film of the book 'Year of the >Angry Rabbit' (really). These giant flopsy rabbits keep loping round the >screen in slo-mo tearing the throats out of passers-by. My great >unfinished song "Invasion of the Giant Bunnies" is based on this movie. this comment after the recent Quailspiel? Now I KNOW there's a conspiracy going on! >> I'm Mister Ed. >> >> Anyone who wants to dispute this can step outside with me right now. > >Wait, you mean you're a talking horse? You had your own TV series? But now come on... Mister Ed was the first man to climb mount Everest! If Tenzing Norkay is always known as "Sherpa Tenzing", then Ed Hillary should always be known as "Mister Ed". (Of course he's Sir Ed now, but why spoil a good story...) >I thought it was so funny that the other worst film you would mention was >actually also an effort by the Feg-maligned Ken Russell. It was called >"Crimes of Passon" . This had Kathleen Turner as an exec by day/hooker by >night and I think also had Tom Berenger as a policeman who is attracted to >her, but I don't remember that well. There were a lot of comparisons to >"Body Double" at the time because they came out practically on the heels of >one another and were IIRC, very similar, and both "controversial" because of >nudity and similar puritan concerns. BTW, I think where you're getting the >name "Blue" is that Kathleen Turner's character was an exec by day and by >night a hooker named "China Blue", although it could be that it was retitled >for foreign release, I dunno. yup - It was called China Blue in NZ, IIRC. Another late weepy song addition: Silent all these years, by the gorgeous one. > Hey Eb, > Give it a break. Who made you mister feg etiquette. while I think Eb went a little OTT, every list needs its Oscar the grouch, and Eb fills that role nicely thank you. Hmmm. Have I started another analogy? Do we have Terry "Big Bird" Marks? Capuchin and The Great Quail as Bert and Ernie? Is Bayard Grover? Is DavefromOz Mr Snuffalopagus? Is Susan the Cookie Monster? Kermit the woj? James PS -one rubber shark! two rubber sharks! three rubber sharks! Heh heh heh! (crack of thunder) James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:02:27 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Eb>> Hey Eb, >> >Give it a break. Who made you mister feg etiquette. >>>- -Paul > >>Hey Paul,Give it a break. Who made you mister Eb etiquette. >>- -Ner > > >Hey Ner, Give it a break. Who made you mister Paul etiquette. >- - Guambat > >(sorry, I just couldn't resist!) }8^) > >I think we should continue this thread, adding names to the sentence, until >either >Robyn's new CD/movie comes out, or when Jesus returns, whichever >one comes first. Either way, at that point we'll have something "new" to >talk about. Personally, I'd love to see the resurrection of the, er, Australian/UK slang name-calling thread. ;) Uh, Quail, Dlang, Danielle...? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:35:38 -0500 From: sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain) Subject: Re: fegmaniax-digest V7 #147 >* a list of the 100 best Ray Davies songs, and what makes them great, by >Susan D. Am I really -that- predictable? :) >James > >(still trying to work out whether Susan was dissing Wings of Desire, one of >my all time top ten movies... I'll give her the benefit of the doubt, I >think, especially If I have to convince her to get a top 100 together...) No, actually my negative comments were concerning the very idea of making the new Hollywoodish remake "Touched By An Angel". I guess if that movie hasn't yet reached your shores, you may thankfully have been spared the publicity blitz surrounding it and consequently not heard of it yet, hence the confusion :). Sorry 'bout that. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 21:43:39 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Gump and Gumper Jeff wrote: >>"Forrest Gump" -- another one my SO and I disagree about. The ultimate >>message of the film: "Ignorance breeds success. Stay stupid and you'll >>succeed in spite of it." > >It's not my favorite film or anything, but I liked Forrest Gump. Cripes, if >you hated Munchausen you should've loved this. I take it you hate it because >of the message you perceived: "Ignorance breeds success. Stay stupid and >you'll succeed in spite of it." Boy, I gotta tell you, that's a terribly >simplistic and somewhat jaded view. My friend Kris felt the same way. I >always thought it's "message" was more along the lines of: No matter how >small, insignificant, and stupid people are at times, everyone counts, >everyone makes a difference, everyone has an effect upon the world, even >Forrest Gump. It's a good flick. I didn't like Gump much, not because of any screwy "message" but because of its plot structure. For me, the flashback framework bombed. With the story timeline so scattershot (land here for a few months, land here for a year, skip ahead a few years, etc.), I was completely unable to immerse myself in the story, emotionally. It was like watching a slide show, instead of sharing in someone's life. Didn't engage me. And I didn't think much of Munchausen, either. An undisciplined mess, really. Imagination gone amuck, without rhyme or reason. Though Brazil was very very important to me, at the time. signal-to-Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:35:40 -0500 From: sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain) Subject: Re: The Kenster >amadain wrote: >> The >> problem is just that there are times when someone really ought to have told >> him "No, Ken. NO! DON'T DO THAT! IT'S RIDICULOUS!" > >Would you really want him to listen to someone that would say >such things on his set? Well, actually......yes. Wait, hear me out a bit :). I didn't mean somebody standing by and yelling "Don't do that!", literally, obviously :). And I was being a bit over the top, as well, exaggerating to make a point that I probably over-made. But just as writers work with editors, wouldn't it be possible to have a trusted assistant, someone who knows you and knows your work, and is sympathetic to your style, who could advise you in such a manner? I don't think there's a genius in the world that doesn't need some help from time to time. We all need someone to say no once in awhile, genius or no. Would Fitz and Hemingway have been as good without the aid of a brilliant editor like Maxwell Perkins? Undeniably this does come down to talent- they would have been who they were no matter what, but it's also undeniable that his editorship was a good influence. >"Lair", it must be noted, was based on a short story by Bram Stoker. I noticed that the last time I rented it. Have yet to read it, though I'm looking forward. >(And, >Nicholas Cage should have won the Oscar for "Vampire's Kiss" instead of >"Leaving Las Vegas") I think so too, it was a brilliant performance. And one of those one-man bravura all stops out things the Academy normally adores. I guess perhaps he was just not considered "established" enough at that point? Maybe it was that they normally don't like to give awards to comedies (though now they occasionally get nominations, and in the past couple years, a few acting winners)? Who knows. >> the results were a lot more coherent than many of his other >> films because of that- squeezing his huge ideas into genre frameworks more >> often would be good for him. > >That's like saying Martin Scorsese should stick to making "The Color Of >Money" rather than another "Kundun" or "Last Temptation", no? Depends what you mean. To me, Scorcese hasn't really shown as bad tendencies towards self-indulgence, though others may argue differently and they'd have a case- this comes down to personal opinion in the end, really. It just seemed to me that the results of sticking to a genre helped improve coherency, which to me is something that's dogged him as a filmmaker (total lack of it in a few cases, that does make a few of his films come out um, ridiculous), and by that I don't mean conventional narrative, but something I don't quite know how to say, I guess overall narrative logic. And that maybe doing this kind of work more frequently might produce good results. This isn't to suggest that he should continue to make that same movie all his life, just that IMHO not only was that film one of his strongest structurally, it still had all the wonderful gory gothic dark-humored Russellness that makes him great, and that perhaps work in a similar vein would be fruitful. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #149 *******************************