From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #94 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Friday, March 6 1998 Volume 07 : Number 094 Today's Subjects: ----------------- songs for raymond [Carole Reichstein ] Re: songs for raymond [Terrence M Marks ] Re: intelligence---shameless NoNL plug. [sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amad] Re: songs for raymond [Tom Clark ] Dark Green Energy and sad dragon songs [Carole Reichstein ] weep songs ["Chaney, Dolph L" ] Re: songs for raymond [hal brandt ] weep songs [Russ Reynolds ] sad dragon songs and bong hits [Tom Clark ] Re: mostly ridiculous content [The Great Quail ] Re: Dark Green Energy and sad dragon songs [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: songs for raymond ["Runion-1, Michael" ] Re: sad dragon songs and bong hits [Capuchin ] Re: sad dragon songs and bong hits [Gregory Stuart Shell ] Re: Sgt Pepper Knew My Father [Eb ] Re: songs in which to weep [james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dign] Verlaines [james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan)] Roibyn & Blur. An armchair musicological diatribe [james.dignan@stonebow.] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:10:49 -0800 (PST) From: Carole Reichstein Subject: songs for raymond Russ wrote: > > On the other hand I can't think of a single Hitchcock tune that puts a lump > in my throat. Maybe this goes to what Eb was saying about a lack of emotion > in Hitch's voice. I mean, you'd think his father's death would have > produced a tear jerkin' ballad...instead he writes the Yip Song, almost as > if he's an impartial observer. But to me that's one of the things that > makes his music so interesting--his slant on the world is just a little off > kilter. I've never been a fan of the Yip song myself, but if it helped Robyn work out his demons, hey, that's fine. But this isn't the only song that speaks of his late father: most notably, "Dark Green Energy" is a beaut of a song. "I'll find the rain behind the clouds/A father lies beyond the shroud." I've always considered this a song for his father, about the cycle of life, death and green growing/glowing? things. And yes, I like Michael Stipe's vocals! :) Also, You & Oblivion is a more somber take on his father's passing, with the Death Train reference. Say, a long time ago, Robyn mentioned in an article that one of his sisters (I forget which, but apparently the one who made the Underwater Moonlight sculptures) was in the process of making a "Death Train" sculpture, with all the family members waving goodbye to Raymond. Anyone know anything about this, or was Robyn being flippant? Curiously yours Carole ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:32:31 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: songs for raymond > > I've never been a fan of the Yip song myself, but if it helped Robyn work > out his demons, hey, that's fine. But this isn't the only song that speaks > of his late father: most notably, "Dark Green Energy" is a beaut of a > song. "I'll find the rain behind the clouds/A father lies beyond the > shroud." I've always considered this a song for his father, about the > cycle of life, death and green growing/glowing? things. And yes, I like > Michael Stipe's vocals! :) Also, You & Oblivion is a more somber take on Wasn't Dark Green Energy written, recorded and released before Raymond Hitchcock died, though? (I think...which single was it part of, and when was it released?) And I remember Robyn mentioning the Death Train somewhere, but don't think it's been mentioned again. Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 12:37:28 -0600 From: sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain) Subject: Re: intelligence---shameless NoNL plug. > IS it just me, or isn't sometimes FUN to get in an >intellectual ((as opposed to emotional "after the dance of a thousand >kisses comes the catacomb of toungues" -RT) battle with a female >'other'? Judging by the posts on the list, I think maybe the average >Feg is smarter than the average (No, I will NOT say "bear" :-) ) >person, and repsects that. It is often fun to get into an intellectual battle with your "other". I would never get seriously involved with someone who didn't enjoy that. Actually the idea that this differentiates by gender disturbs me just slightly. What is this "Is it just me business?" (Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be confrontational, it's a real question born out of curiosity at the way your post was phrased). You hang out with other guys who -don't- have intellectual debates with female others, ever? I always thought it was sort of a naturally occuring thing between all "others" regardless of gender. I mean, for me it just -is-. If it's not there then what -do- you talk about ever and what on earth are you spending all that time together doing? Sex can't take up -all- of it :) > Actually, do bands with fegs normally post on here before >gigs? > Is it in poor taste? They often do, and it's not considered in poor taste at all. Can't speak for others but I myself regard these type of announcements as community bulletin board event posting type things. I would even be delighted to go to such gigs, but none of them ever seem to occur in the Chicago area. It's possible the mention of Corey Hart might frighten people away, though. I'd be careful about that in future :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 98 10:50:41 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: Re: songs for raymond On 3/6/98 10:32 AM, Terrence M Marks wrote: >Wasn't Dark Green Energy written, recorded and released before >Raymond Hitchcock died, though? > >(I think...which single was it part of, and when was it released?) Wasn't it on one of the Balloon Man singles? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 10:49:30 -0800 (PST) From: Carole Reichstein Subject: Dark Green Energy and sad dragon songs > Wasn't Dark Green Energy written, recorded and released before > Raymond Hitchcock died, though? > > (I think...which single was it part of, and when was it released?) > Hmmmm..good point! I first heard this song on a compilation tape a friend made for me, *after* Raymond's death. But honestly, I don't remember when it was recorded. I figured it was after 1992 because of the "father/shroud" reference, but I don't really know. I think it was a b-side. Anyone? PS-to James, waxing melancholic over "Puff The Magic Dragon:" You are not alone. When I was in kindergarten, the well-meaning teacher used to play this song *every day* during our "quiet" period. She'd turn off the lights and instruct us to fold our arms across the desk and take a snooze while "Puff the Magic Dragon" played on turntable. Maybe this calmed all the other 5 year olds down, but I always sobbed inconsolably into my shirtsleeves, hoping no one would notice. I thought it painfully sad, especially when the Dragon crawls back in his cave and roars no more. ...There--my childhood secret is out! Heh. No wonder I like Richard Thompson nowadays! And "Eye." :) - -Carole ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 98 11:03:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: God Walks Among Us anyone know where I can find the "God Walks Among Us" Cream cover on the net? I thought it used to be in the fegmaniax archives but it doesn't seem to be there now. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:12:24 -0500 From: "Chaney, Dolph L" Subject: weep songs I am a big weeper, particularly when exposed to certain music and ESPECIALLY when singing along. Let's see... 3 or 4 of these you will most likely not have heard of unless you know rather obscure Christian alternative music, but here we go anyway: Robyn Hitchcock: "Linctus House" (I lose it on one of the "...ain't that a shame..." sections every time) the rest alphabetically by artist... American Music Club: "Last Harbor" (from the criminally out-of-print _California_) Susan Ashton: "Spinning Like A Wheel" (just an old fashioned love song, that one) Beach Boys: much of _Pet Sounds_, particularly "God Only Knows," "Don't Talk," and the bridges of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" Beatles: yes, I've wept at "In My Life" and "Julia" a time or two. Chris Bell: "I Am The Cosmos" (soooooooooo desperate) Jeff Buckley: "Last Goodbye" Kate Bush: the quiet songs from _The Sensual World_ Elvis Costello: "I Want You" (actually, this doesn't count, because I can't even listen to the whole thing anymore) Nick Drake: "Fly," "Northern Sky" Peter Gabriel: "Lead A Normal Life," "Biko," "Wallflower" Mark Heard: "My Redeemer Lives" (from _At The Foot Of The Cross, Vol 1_, an obscure worship album, extra tear-inducing because it was his last recorded vocal before dying of cancer) Husker Du: "Celebrated Summer" and the _Candy Apple Grey_ one-two punch of "Too Far Down" and "Hardly Getting Over It" Lost Dogs (a sort of Wilburys for obscure but great Christian rock): "The Last Testament of Angus Shane" Lyle Lovett: "Pontiac" Radiohead: at one point or another, most of _The Bends_ and _OK Computer_ R.E.M.: "The Wrong Child," "Sweetness Follows" Replacements: "Unsatisfied" Michael Roe: "Ache Beautiful" Sugar: "Explode And Make Up" (especially the version I saw in concert in Austin on Dec 2 '94) Superchunk: "Like A Fool" and "The First Part" Matthew Sweet: "You Don't Love Me" and "Your Sweet Voice" Richard & Linda Thompson: "Beat The Retreat" and "It's Just The Motion" Uncle Tupelo: "Still Be Around" Wilco: "Misunderstood" Zombies: like Terry, I weep through most of _Odessey And Oracle_ at various times. So, what do I win? A bib, I hope... Dolph - -- p.s.: I'm sure there isn't time for me to mention that I got another good review, this one at Raging Smolder Music Review (http://avmcyber.com/rsmr/rev011.html). ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 12:15:41 -0700 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: songs for raymond > >Wasn't Dark Green Energy written, recorded and released before > >Raymond Hitchcock died, though? > > > >(I think...which single was it part of, and when was it released?) > > Wasn't it on one of the Balloon Man singles? Dark Green Energy was an extra track on the Ultra Unbelievable Love "promo only" CD single circa 1991 (Perspex Island). So, that would make it before Raymond's demise I think. /hal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 98 11:42:00 -0800 From: Russ Reynolds Subject: weep songs Dolph reports: >I am a big weeper, particularly when exposed to certain music and >ESPECIALLY when singing along. >Let's see... 3 or 4 of these you will most likely not have heard of >unless you know rather obscure Christian alternative music, but here we >go anyway: >So, what do I win? A bib, I hope... A year of therapy and a guest shot on the next Barbara Walters Special. - -russ (currently avoiding Dylan's "If You See Her Say Hello" to prevent "Dolphing") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 98 11:46:39 -0800 From: Tom Clark Subject: sad dragon songs and bong hits On 3/6/98 10:49 AM, Carole Reichstein wrote: >PS-to James, waxing melancholic over "Puff The Magic Dragon:" You are not >alone. When I was in kindergarten, the well-meaning teacher used to play >this song *every day* during our "quiet" period. She'd turn off the lights >and instruct us to fold our arms across the desk and take a snooze while >"Puff the Magic Dragon" played on turntable. Maybe this calmed all the >other 5 year olds down, but I always sobbed inconsolably into my >shirtsleeves, hoping no one would notice. I thought it painfully sad, >especially when the Dragon crawls back in his cave and roars no more. >...There--my childhood secret is out! Heh. No wonder I like Richard >Thompson nowadays! And "Eye." :) So what's the story about "Puff..." being a song about pot? I don't remember how the words go, but apparently there's a lot of double entendres(sp) regarding "Puff" and Johnny "Paper." irie, - -tc ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 98 14:55:15 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Re: mostly ridiculous content Danille writes, >And Quail replies: >> So you are entirely justified: I >> deserve that well-couched and most diplomatic admonishment, even though I >> do not regret my post. > >Now, let me see - because he asked for a little leniency on Eb, Quail >thinks he deserves 'admonishment', and Nick has kindly volunteered >himself to administer it. You guys are actually playing way *too* nice, >I think. (Atonement for past indiscretions?) But far be it from me to >disturb this extra polite sado-masochistic scenario you've both got >going on... ;) "Extra polite SM scenario?" Why that's just not true!! But I do want to say this: Eb, I want you to know that I apologize for every negative thing I've ever said to you. Last month, last year, my very fisrt posting, perhaps. Maybe even when we were in seperate wombs, and I was thinking "Fucking Eb." I am sorry. I only want to support your self-esteem; I want to be the wind beneath your wings, the lifeguard at Lake You. The last thing I would want to do is cause you to doubt your paradigm, for throwing you into a shame spiral will give me no validation. And Nick? You were more than right in your admonishment of me. I deserved it. I was a bad, bad quail. I want to tahnk you for being the Policeman of Love. Your guiding hand showed me a path away from teh Abyss, and my inner child rejoices. Thank you. Ah, God! Yes! Yes! Yes! - --Quail PS: Guys, was it that good for *you* too? - ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | Literature Site - The Libyrinth: TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth www.rpg.net/quail | Vampire Site - New York by Night: riverrun Discordian Society | www.rpg.net/quail/NYBN 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:10:26 -0800 From: John Barrington Jones Subject: Spoken Word Tape With El Nino wreaking havoc all over the place, I'm worried that the tape has blown away and is now sitting next to a Hershey candy bar wrapper in the gutter somewhere. Does anyone know where the tape is right now? Last I heard, Randi or Eddie had it. Little tape, where are you? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:09:28 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: Dark Green Energy and sad dragon songs >> Wasn't Dark Green Energy written, recorded and released before >> Raymond Hitchcock died, though? >> >> (I think...which single was it part of, and when was it released?) >> > >Hmmmm..good point! I first heard this song on a compilation tape a friend >made for me, *after* Raymond's death. But honestly, I don't remember when >it was recorded. I figured it was after 1992 because of the >"father/shroud" reference, but I don't really know. I think it was a >b-side. Anyone? > It was one of the B-sides to the UK release of "So You Think You're In Love". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:54:47 -0500 From: "Runion-1, Michael" Subject: Re: songs for raymond Regarding "Dark Green Energy": DGE showed up originally as a b-side to the "So You Think You're In Love" single, circa 1992. Raymond died circa 1991/1992 (according to Bayard's Chronology). So, I guess it's a close call as to what happened first. Presumably (I'm guessing here), Raymond's cancer progressed slowly over time and Robyn perhaps took to writing more emotionally-tinged death songs in some sort of preparation for the inevitable. Plus, Robyn was nearing the big four-oh and the humor-tinged death songs might have been seeming a little less humorous. Eh, who knows. Am I right in perceiving that death has taken on a more serious tone in Robyn's later work? Mike (who really likes songs about death, funny or not.) Mike Runion EG&G S&MA Data & Analyses; ADoCS Office 867-3619 BOC-251 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:34:02 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: How did Scoob and the gang make their money? But who is Scrappy Doo's mother? Eb > I think you're right, Luther. I mean, otherwise, why would they all >hang out together? Well, clearly, Daphne hangs out with Fred because she's >got a huge crush on him (but, of course, he's gay). And, clearly, Velma hangs >out with them because she's got a huge crush on Daphne (but, of course she's >*not* gay). But where does Shaggy fit in? Yup: Drugs! Unfortunately, every >time they roll into town and are ready for the deal to go down, poor Fred gets >"the bug" and has to try to solve some sort of a mystery. . . you see, Fred >used to be very laid back and into free love and all that before they shipped >him off to Nam where he was captured and jailed away into a haunted hut and >forced to dress up as a yachtsman, all to appease the bizarre and sadistic >tastes of hif captors, who smoked *way* too much opium, a drug which Fred >eventually became addicted to. Years later, after the end of the Viet Nam >"conflict", Shaggy was just a lonely (hence the conversations with his dog, >Scooby) and small-time pot dealer who, one night at a 7-11, ran into Fred (who >was in his usual fugue state, slowly cruising around town in his van whilst >cheerfully and coherantly repeating the phrases, "I sure could go for scoring >some drugs!" and "I'm gonna get rid of that ghost if it's the last thing I >ever do!") and decided the two should hook up (because Fred had a van and he >didn't). A few months later, they met Daphne and Velma at a frat party >(Shaggy and Fred had recently acheived an "in" with the Boston-area college >circuit and were starting to make some serious cash). For Daphne, it was love >at first sight -- unfortunately, do to differences in sexual preferences, it >was a love that would forever go unrequited. Velma, in turn, had already come >to accept that it would be her fate to forever trail the exquisite beauty that >is Daphne. So, they all made the best of a relatively hopeless situation: >They traveled around together, bonded by love and drug addictions, Daphne and >Velma never getting back the kind of love they wanted, Fred never getting his >revenge on any *real* ghosts, and Shaggy always coming down from good highs >thanks to Fred's *biggest* addiction: mystery-related escapades. > >------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:09:18 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: songs for raymond On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Runion-1, Michael wrote: > Regarding "Dark Green Energy": > DGE showed up originally as a b-side to the "So You Think You're In Love" > single, circa 1992. See, I have it on the back of Ultra Unbelievable Love. That single came out AFTER SYTYIL in this country and probably elsewhere, so I guess the UK release of this song was first and maybe '91. > Raymond died circa 1991/1992 (according to Bayard's > Chronology). I'm almost positive Raymond Hitchcock died Feb. 22, 1992. That is assuming Robyn found out within 24 hours. > So, I guess it's a close call as to what happened first. > Presumably (I'm guessing here), Raymond's cancer progressed slowly over time > and Robyn perhaps took to writing more emotionally-tinged death songs in > some sort of preparation for the inevitable. Plus, Robyn was nearing the > big four-oh and the humor-tinged death songs might have been seeming a > little less humorous. Eh, who knows. This I'll buy. He was thinking about death and his father, somewhat bedridden, I'd think. He was thinking about becoming a real-live old person. But he was also looking forward... marriage and all. Things were just more Real. > Am I right in perceiving that death has taken on a more serious tone in > Robyn's later work? I think so. I certainly couldn't imagine Robyn writing "the face of death is my best friend" today... or even the unbelievably rousing celebration of mortality that is Only The Stones Remain. > Mike (who really likes songs about death, funny or not.) I like death songs, too. Well, at least alot more than love songs. J. (who isn't at all morbid if you met him) ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 13:10:26 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: sad dragon songs and bong hits On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, Tom Clark wrote: > So what's the story about "Puff..." being a song about pot? I don't > remember how the words go, but apparently there's a lot of double > entendres(sp) regarding "Puff" and Johnny "Paper." I don't know nothin' 'bout no drugs and I'm not a big fan of that particular brand or era of music, but I'd swear it's Jackie Paper. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:21:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Gregory Stuart Shell Subject: Re: sad dragon songs and bong hits Hey, Here is the "pot" song in it's entirety: Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honahlee, Little Jackie Paper loved that rascal Puff And brought him strings and sealing wax and other fancy stuff. Oh! Together they would travel on a boat with billowed sail, Jackie kept a lookout perched on Puff's gigantic tail Noble kings and princes would bow whenever they came Pirate ships would lower their flags when Puff roared out his name. Oh! A dragon lives forever, but not so little boys: Painted wings and giant rings make way for other toys. One grey night it happened, Jackie Paper came no more, and Puff that might dragon, he ceased his fearless roar. Oh! His head was bent in sorrow, green scales fell like rain; Puff no longer went to play along the cherry lane. Without his lifelong friend, Puff could not be brave, So Puff, that mighty dragon, sadly slipped into his cave. Oh! Puff, the magic dragon lived by the sea And frolicked in the autumn mist in a land called Honahlee. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 16:57:55 EST From: MARKEEFE Subject: Re: How did Scoob and the gang make their money? In a message dated 98-03-06 15:43:19 EST, you write: << But who is Scrappy Doo's mother? Eb >> Exactly! Truth is, Scrappy should have never existed. Yet another good reason why the Scrappy Years should just be written off as a sick, money- hungry perversion from the (usually) good folks at ol' H-B. I mean, when it starts having less to do with hash-baked snacks (they would have brownies but, of course, dogs are allergic to chocolate; probably, Scooby Snacks were made of something simple like flour, eggs, peanut butter and, of course, WEED, DUDE!) and has more to do with the sellability of 'cuteness', well, it's a sad, sad day indeed. - ------Michael K., who's np RT's "Hand of Kindness" (why did I put this one off for so long?!) and feelin' the munchies comin' on. . . oh, actually, it's just lunch time ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 17:14:17 -0500 From: Hollie Subject: Murder Ballads/Sgt Pepper Knew My Father (no Robyn content) jbastin@juliet.stfx.ca exclaimed: >Can somebody out there who knows tell me why I should pick up... >...Nick Cave's "Murder Ballads"? To complete your Kylie Minogue collection. Don't tell me you don't have one. As far as "Sgt Pepper Knew My Father" I have an import UK cassette of this tribute album (it was not released in the US AFAIK) and I find it unlistenable, Billy Bragg and Michelle Shocked not withstanding. If anybody wants it, I'll trade ya for Robyn Hitchcock's Christmas Party (which I was too lazy to sign up for) or just send me money for postage from Virginia. It is taking up valuable space in my junk drawer next to my Loozanteen CD. a.k.a. Hollie_Satterfield@mail.amsinc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:48:01 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Sgt Pepper Knew My Father >As far as "Sgt Pepper Knew My Father" I have an import UK cassette >of this tribute album (it was not released in the US AFAIK) and I >find it unlistenable, Billy Bragg and Michelle Shocked not withstanding. >If anybody wants it, I'll trade ya for Robyn Hitchcock's Christmas >Party (which I was too lazy to sign up for) or just send me money >for postage from Virginia. It is taking up valuable space in my >junk drawer next to my Loozanteen CD. I dig the Wedding Present and Sonic Youth tracks.... ("Getting Better" and "Within You Without You") Eb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:55:13 +1300 (NZDT) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Re: songs in which to weep >funny thing is, when i saw the subject, I thought it was a different >thread.......... :) that's why I used it - I had parts of the message about songs that make you blub and part of it about Nick Cave, so it seemed the perfect subject line! >'Weeping Song' is one of my fav's from Nick (not the song to listen to when >you've been overserved, and are sitting at home by yourself at 3 am, >thinking too much), and 'What a Wonderful World', is just too much >fun.......(this from a Pogues fan of course) I love Weeping Song too, although the video with Nick and Blixa in the boat for some reason always made me think "bastard sons of the Men from UNCLE!" James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:00:43 +1300 (NZDT) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Verlaines >Anybody love the Verlaines and really want to get their early stuff on CD? >Well I cant find it... Mr Dignan, Do you know if the early stuff has been >reissued? Longing too hear "Death and The Maiden" and "Joed Out" on >anything besides my crusty old vinyl. They've done a good job with all of >the early Go Betweens stuff being reissued ( a real treat) what gives with >the Verlaines? yes, there is a CD called 'Juvenilia' which is a compilation of everything right up to Doomsday (heh... I mean the *song* Doomsday!). That's (hmmm... from memory) two singles, two EPs and the Verlaines tracks from the infamous "Dunedin Double EP" - comes to about 14 tracks, anyway. It's on Flying Nun records (check their website on http://www.flyingnun.co.nz - there should be some info there) James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 15:01:46 +1300 (NZDT) From: james.dignan@stonebow.otago.ac.nz (James Dignan) Subject: Roibyn & Blur. An armchair musicological diatribe >>>I think it was fair to say that blur are influenced by hitchcock to a >>>degree, >they both have a very 'english' sound >>So do the Kinks, Martin Newell, Pulp, The Jam, and Noel Coward, to name >>five that came readily to mind, and I could think of others probably if I >>gave it time. I doubt that they're all influenced by RH or each other, at >>any rate it would be difficult to prove (in Sir Noel's case I think we >>can safely say that there is no Kinks influence, Bhowever :)). I mention >>Noel Coward because, though not a rawk star per se (only in a very very >>broad sense :)), he is also -very- English, and had a certain nostalgic >>love for Brittania that seemed constantly in conflict with his >>mischievous satirist's eye, and this reminds me quite strongly of a >>fellow named Davies who has a similar bent. So I -could- if I wanted say >>that -everyone- was influenced by Noel Coward just as easily. My point is >>that, while I'm not dismissing the possibility outright, IMHO influences >>are damn tricky to pinpoint and very easily confused with commonalities. >I agree, but the examples you used to descibe an 'english' sound are much >further away from the sound of Hitchcock than Blur. It is unlikely in my >mind that The Jam, who are near contemparies of Hitchcock, abeit when he >was a softboy were influenced by Hitchcock and common sense tells us that >The Kinks and Coward are definetly not influenced by him, although >stranger things have happened and they may well be fans of the great man >you never know , i can quite feasably imagine Noel having a boogie to 'old >pervert' you can go further back in this "Englishness" debate than Noel Coward, back to Gilbert & Sullivan. That and music hall were probably early influences on a lot of British music in the earlier part of this century, some tending more towards the former influence (Noel Coward), some more towards the latter (George Formby and his ilk). GROSS GENERALISATION ALERT: the following rant contains some generalisations presented as debatable fact, in order to construct a hypothesis. Some settling may occur in transit. I've been trying to pin this "Englishness" thing down for a while - many of my favourite musicians have a distinct English sound that cannot be pinpointed other than 'sounding English" - XTC, Robyn, Costello and the like. I think it's just the different pool of influences. Whereas American rock & roll, in its early days, had as its strongest influences blues (and ultimately Negro spirituals and worksongs), country and western (from Appalachian folk and the like), jazz, and vaudeville - in that order, in Britain the influences were music hall/vaudeville, blues, traditional English folk, and jazz - in that order. So while the US was embracing R&B in the late 50s, British musicians turned to the more music-hall based sound of skiffle. Blues didn't really become a factor in British rock until the early 1960s, and then it spread - surprise, surprise, from the cities with the main links to the US: the ports of London and Liverpool. Vaudeville, by contrast, has remained only a very small influence on US rock. It wasn't till the mid 60s that any form of crosspollinisation of the British and American scenes started to really take place, and even then, the two musical cultures headed in occasionally divergent directions. For example, in the US, rock became heavily influenced by C&W - the Byrds are a prime example. In Britain, folk became the equivalent influence, and groups like Pentangle and Fairport Convention sprang up. These trends still continue. Britain, through immigration from the West Indies, has been much more heavily influenced by ska and reggae than America, whereas the US has found its equivalent influence in the form of street poetry (hence the rap phenomenon). Britain has also found celtic folk as a major influence in recent years, for example. So whereas top US bands of the late sixties were following a trend started with R&B, most British bands started with a more vaudeville sound that had only been influenced by R&B more recently. There were major exceptions, of course: bands built from John Mayall and Alexis Corner's blues clubs had strong R&B influence (Rolling Stones, early Fleetwood Mac, Cream), but bands like the Kinks, Herman's Hermits, Dave Dee et al, showed a more obvious link with the vaudeville roots. The trend still continues today with bands like Blur. Both XTC and Robyn H show some influences of (particularly the Kinksian variant of) music hall based rock, albeit infused with a lot of the summery American west coast sounds of the likes of the Byrds and Beach Boys and New York sounds of the Velvets. So it's the pool of common influences that give Robyn and Blur any similarities that their sound has, rather than a direct influence one on the other. In Blur's case, I see a thread passing back through Herman's Hermits (with a sideways nod to the Kinks and John Lennon on the way) directly to music hall. In Robyn's case, the route is a little more complex, but definitely passes via the Kinks and John Lennon, with a sidelong glance at the Velvet Underground. XTC also go via the Kinks, and gives the thunbs up to the Beach Boys en route, before heading to a folk/music hall basis. It's like the difference between British and American English. British English uses a lot of words and colloquialisms from 'the colonies' - in America the same expressions are often drawn from the spanish (cf two words for crazy: 'doolally' and 'loco'). The two languages are mutually intelligible (usually), but there are distinctive features to each. I've ranted long enough. James James Dignan___________________________________ You talk to me Deptmt of Psychology, Otago University As if from a distance ya zhivu v' 50 Norfolk Street And I reply. . . . . . . . . . Dunedin, New Zealand with impressions chosen from another time steam megaphone (03) 455-7807 (Brian Eno - "By this River") ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #94 ******************************