From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #89 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Tuesday, March 3 1998 Volume 07 : Number 089 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: More politics. (a sermon) [Terrence M Marks ] Re[2]: Blur [TROYD1@Westat.com (TROYD1)] Re: ps [Terrence M Marks ] Nick Hornby, Blur and Elvis. [Robert Thompson ] Re: High Fidelity [Sean Hennessey ] sexism? [Bayard ] Re: Expressiveness [Sean Hennessey ] pps. [Bayard ] Re: High Fidelity [John Barrington Jones ] Re: More politics. (a sermon) [tanter ] RE: Fever pitch/High Fidelity ["BENJAMIN.BRETTENNY" ] Re: ps ["Capitalism Blows" ] Re: transcribing fool (emphasis on [Bret ] Re[2]: Blur [sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain)] Re: ps ["Chris, the missing years." ] Re: Dammit, another one of those big off-topic consolidation posts, with mostly ridiculous content [sdodge@mi] high fidelity! [Karen Reichstein ] what's yer fave condiment? [dmw ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:12:20 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: More politics. (a sermon) I'm not going to say anything because I'd rather have this thread die. Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:09:43 -0500 From: TROYD1@Westat.com (TROYD1) Subject: Re[2]: Blur Dan said:: > > Hmmmm. I'm a big fan of Blur (one of my current five-finger bands, > you could say), I'm not sure I hear any RH influence in them, though. > They're not especially jangly nor are their lyrics filled with fish > and stuff. I certainly hear a good amount of Ray Davies in them, > though. I suppose Robyn could do a nice cover of This ia a Low. > > Ben said: Although Robyn is indeed 'jangly' and does on occasion sing about fish i think its a tad unfair to suggest that the only way he could possibly influence another group or artist is in these two areas. I think it was fair to say that blur are influenced by hitchcock to a degree, they both have a very 'english' sound and use elements of phychedelia in there music, blur do especially on there earlier records. BEN > > Of course I know RH is about more than jangliness and fish - I am on the list, after all. But what is it exactly about Blur's music that's seems Hitchcockian? Englishness? That's hardly a unique characteristic. XTC and the Kinks have an Englishness to them as well, and I hear their influence in Blur's catalogue more than I do Robyn's. As for psychedelia, Robyn has no monopoly on that either, and Graham Coxon is on the record as being a Syd Barrett fan. I just don't see/hear a connection. Dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:18:38 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: ps > I said the discussion of Paula Cole's armpit hair was sexist because folks > were only talking about her and other women's shaving habits without > comparable comments about men. Were the discussion simply about her > without any other comparisons, it wouldn't have been sexist (unless there > were untoward comments made, of course!). Bah. There are different standards of beauty between the sexes because male attractiveness and female attractiveness have notably different market bases. A lot of features look better on one gender than the other (eg. beards) You want to talk about sexism? Take five guys and have them dress and act like the Spice Girls. See how many times *they* make the cover of Rolling Stone. Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:18:45 -0500 From: Robert Thompson Subject: Nick Hornby, Blur and Elvis. Boyz and gurls, Being a newbie and a lurker, as well as a digest-type (sort of a social pariah), I thought I'd bang off a quick comment. The Nick Hornby book is wonderful and utterly readable. I bought it in London while on vacaction and read it in it entirely on the plane home. Favorite bit included the Reservoir Dogs stuff. Laughed out loud and the people around me probably thought I was loaded up on something, when in fact I was quite hung over. Blur: I can see the connection, especially since Blur and known to love Syd Barrett and I'm sure you're aware of the Barrett connection with RH. In fact, the first time I saw RH, he covered Syd. Check out Blur's Modern Life is Rubbish CD, especially the mellower acoustic tracks and some of the imagery. Elvis: 1)This Year's Model 2)Armed Forces 3) Brutal Youth. The recent acoustic EP series is wonderful as well, and who can forget the opening chords to Allison? In other notes, I'm Canadian, live in Toronto, play guitar and sing but am currently bandless and work as a journalist for a computer magazine on top of some other writing I do. Pleasure to make your acquaintance. Robert ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:28:00 -0500 (EST) From: Sean Hennessey Subject: Re: High Fidelity On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Capuchin wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, lj lindhurst wrote: > > which leads me to... > > Have any of yous guys ever read a book called _High Fidelity_ by a writer > > named Nick Hornby? > > Easily the best book I read last year... but I was working at the agency > last year and admittedly didn't have time to read too much. Really very > good book. Actually, the best book I've read was also by him. He must be the master of obsessions, as he's covered both mine now, music in _High_ and football in _Fever Pitch_ (my fav., though I've read both). Though it's hard to forgive him for writing such a good and insiteful book about Arsenal! :) (I know someone on this list is gonna hate me for that one...:) trala - Sean ******************************************************************************* Sean Hennessey, President of the Boston Reds, an 'unoffical' Manchester United Supporters' Club url: http://members.tripod.com/~boston_reds/red_army.html email: suggs@tiac.net *Bassist: Slippy Keane* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:21:23 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: sexism? I'd like to state that i am privately (but unabashedly and unapologetically) sexist-- i think sex is.. how shall i put this? da bomb. when practiced with care and respect, it's good for mind body and soul. so, viva sex! i can *almost* understand the universal mania for sex, though my sexism takes a close backseat to my fegism. i'm weird that way. (this might be a lie.) on a slightly more serious note, as regards gender discrimination, I believe I disagree that women and men are only different physically. Yet I cannot point to exactly what the difference is, as Capuchin challenges. It's an unknown qualitity. Perhaps women have a certain "je ne sais quois" whereas men just have "je ne sais pas". Anyway, I don't discount the possibility that i could fall in love with a man, though i've never before had even an inkling of that. We may never understand the full nature of attraction. Anyway, I'm sure Eb's and Jeme's reaction to paula cole (is that who it was)? and her upraised arms is exactly what she intended. And if she intended to make us think about this stuff, looks like she succeeded. I can't believe I missed Quail, LJ, Gene, Doug and Neutral Milk Hotel. Next time, folks. Which reminds me-- feglist newcomer and richard thompson fan Luther Dudich and his band NUMBER NINE LINE are playing a gig this friday at Funk's democratic coffee house in Baltimore. Scottish feg Stewart Russell will be there and so will I. Anyone else want to check out a local fegband, have a cuppa and play some scrabble (robyn related words only!) =b ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:23:09 -0500 (EST) From: Sean Hennessey Subject: Re: Expressiveness > > but imho the > > expression lies within the player. you can't have this discussion > > without including the player in it. because the instrument will not > > play without him. it's hard to ask, "is the trumpet more expressive > > than the clarinet?" well, who's playing them? > > This is true, of course. I tried to say that (however poorly) when I > rebutted and said I was choosing the best known case for any given > emotion. It's all really vague. Keep in mind as well that instruments do have distinct sonic timbres and playability factors that tend to lead towards there uses to create moods. Some of this comes from the collective unconscience, put there by years of use as colouring (aka orchestration) of music to create a sonic picture, and from the instuments own limitations. For example, take the oboe, which many people think has a very melancholic sound. Firstly, the reediness of the tone tends to create a foreign, maybe laconic sounds. Also, the damned impossible nature of playing the thing leads towards more simplistic lines (in general, many can play the shite out of it, but having tried just to get a note, let alone a duck squawk, I tell you it's murderous), which have also tended towards the compartmentalisation of the thing. In the end, you can't get everything from everything because of the timbre of an instrument, and how that has benn coloured or pre-programmed in our heads by it's use. Timbre is created by the material the instrument is made out of, the type of instrument (method of play, ie. percussive (includes piano and drums, plucked (harpsichord, guitars I guess), etc.), the method of creating the sound (reed, double reed, strings and a resonating board, massive gusts of air from bellows pushed through great pipes, hammered strings, electrified and reproduced, etc.) and to a degree, the gent or lady playing it. The timbre is defined by the harmonics that it emphasises. *Every* instrument emphasise different harmonics, including different ones of the same type (no board resonates at exactly the same way). So, when you choose your instrument, you're stuck with the harmonics it can produce, and the influence you can create on it comes from techniques used to play it, and even that can only modify it slightly. Now, before you jump down my throat, the use of these 'limited timbres' for expression is definitely in the hands of the player. I find the sax to be a bothersome instrument in most hands, whilst I will tend to go mad over a nice Hammond B playing through a Leslie, but in my hands, I'd have to say that the Hammond is going to be a hell of a lot expressive in my hands (I'm a bassist and guitarist) than a sax in the hands of, say, that genius John Coltraine... Of course, if you're playing a synth, this has sod all to do with you, so go listen to some XTC or something... :) tara - Sean ******************************************************************************* Sean Hennessey, President of the Boston Reds, an 'unoffical' Manchester United Supporters' Club url: http://members.tripod.com/~boston_reds/red_army.html email: suggs@tiac.net *Bassist: Slippy Keane* ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:32:48 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: pps. By "unknown qualitity" (no jokes, Tom) i meant either 'quality' or 'quantity', don't remember which. I'd like to take this moment to wish a big HAPPY BIRTHDAY to amazing bassist, pianist and accordion player Andy Metcalfe! =b ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:33:45 -0800 From: John Barrington Jones Subject: Re: High Fidelity >On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, lj lindhurst wrote: >> which leads me to... >> Have any of yous guys ever read a book called _High Fidelity_ by a writer >> named Nick Hornby? > >Easily the best book I read last year... but I was working at the agency >last year and admittedly didn't have time to read too much. Really very >good book. I must also throw my hat into the ring and say that this was one of the best books I read last year. Please note tho that this was one of the only books i read last year. As my 2 yr old daughter gets older, the stack of "books to read" by my bed gets higher and higher. I find the only thing I am confident I can read from beginning to end these days are magazine articles. - -jbj - -*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-# John B. Jones Email: lobstie@e-z.net ICQ: 8301543 AOL IM: Lobstie House of Figgy-- http://web.syr.edu/~jojones/hitchcock.html "Well, we went to the punk bar, then we went to the heroin bar, we had pasta at Fellini, and then we went to the pretty bar." -overheard at work - -*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-# ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:38:55 -0500 From: tanter Subject: Re: More politics. (a sermon) >Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:38:29 -0500 >To: Capuchin >From: tanter >Subject: Re: More politics. (a sermon) >In-Reply-To: >References: <3.0.1.32.19980303075604.006f8374@mailsrv-vms.oit.umass.edu> > >At 09:57 AM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote: >> >>On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, tanter wrote: >>> Sorry, this just isn't true. Sexual preference is not a choice, it's an >>> inherent part of who a person is. >> >>So's the fact that I don't like chocolate. I think it's an inherent part >>of ME and something I would never change and goes a great distance to >>define my character. That doesn't mean it isn't a choice. > >Well, according to a whole lot of scientific study, it actually is part of genetic make-up. You might say it's a choice because people choose to follow their natural instincts, but that's just being pedantic. > >> >>I don't think instincts have a whole lot to do with who we choose to have >>sex with. The idea that homosexuality is genetic is ludicrous because >>genetics are all about survival of the species and spreading of the >>individual's genetic material and homosexuality is, rather obviously, not >>about procreation. > >Well, then I guess you know more than a lot of scientists. I"d like to read your studies. >> >>> Labeling oneself "homosexual" or "heterosexual" is not discriminatory nor >>> is it an attribution of nonexistent characteristics; they are group >>> identifiers that many people have turned into positive labels and some have >>> leapt upon to use as a means to humiliate. If I choose to say "I'm a >>> heterosexual" (and I'm not a member of Monty Python..!!) I'm using it as a >>> self-identification for some purpose, I'm not assuming you apply any >>> characteristics to that other than my sexual preference is not for members >>> of my own gender. >> >>I don't think I said you were saying anything other than exactly that. >>But what you're saying to me is "I've already decided that half of you >>aren't worthy of my attention romantically/sexually based entirely on your >>physical qualities" and that's just plain shallow. > >What are you talking about? So only bi-sexuals aren't shallow?? And besides that, gender is not only about physical qualities. But you already know that. > > If you meant something >>else like "I've already decided that half of you aren't worthy of my >>attention romantically/sexually based on some predeterminted belief I have >>about the nature of you and your sex", then you're being sexist and just >>plain wrong. > >It seems that you are saying all this simply to try to make a big argument because this is just getting silly. I have yet to meet the person, homo- or hetero-sexual who actually decides in this manner with whom they are going to have sex. Perhaps there are some, I just don't know them. The vast majority of people have sex with people to whom they are attracted, it's not a choice. > >> >>> If a person wishes to apply a label to herself or himself, it can't be >>> sexist (although I'm sure some linguist will come up with an argument for >>> that!). If one chooses to treat others in a certain way because of the >>> gender of those people, one is being sexist. "Choice" is a huge term. >> >>Yeah, I'd argue with that... and do. > >And your argument is....? > > >Marcy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 20:01:50 +0000 (GMT) From: "BENJAMIN.BRETTENNY" Subject: RE: Fever pitch/High Fidelity I agree, both are a decent read and i also agree about Arsenal, i just put it down to the fact that every great man has his faults (although in this case its a rather large one) BEN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 12:01:19 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: transcribing fool (emphasis on no, put it on-list, please. i'd like to see it, too. eb, you may be wondering why i'm not gloating about tool's grammy. i'm wondering that, too. i see the light. i've often wondered if the person who wrote the review and the person who assigned the rating were the same. what about an entire fucking *weekend*? robyn dissed blur at some concert last summer. was it bumbershoot? i can't remember. the whole audience laughed, though. i picked up the victor delorenzo solo album yesterday for 99 cents. it's quite good. yes, eb, i was slumming it in the bargain section. ok, as requested (i'm too good to you, russ) here are the words to The Unpleasant Stain. ("This is a song about menstruation-envy psychosis i wrote when i was ten.") You'll have to explain You'll have to explain The Unpleasant Stain Sing it again: You'll have to explain You'll have to explain The Unpleasant Stain You had a short pain You made your mark in the dark What a lark The doctor agreed The doctor agreed Smart girls never bleed You couldn't succeed You're prepared to breed Yes indeed Baby don't you panic When you're feelin' organic Oh no You're a mechanism And I'm a mechanic Oh yeah Oh yes, we are We certainly are Oh yeah And when it's congealed And when it's congealed Estimate the yield "River!" she squealed "See how much I can spare. "If I dare." Even the loveliest faces Leave inexplicable traces In the unlikeliest places Oh yeah Oh yes, they do They certainly do Oh yeah and, as promised, here is the english translation of the japanese dub of the first french castle scene. Halt! Stop! Yes sir! Hello! Who's There? Hellooooo! Isn't anyone there? Hello. Who is it? Yeah...who's there? It is King Arthur. And these are my Knights of the Round Table. King Arthur and his Round Table Knights. Whose castle is this? Whose castle is this? This is the castle of our master, Guy de Lombard. This castle belongs to our master, Guy de Lombard. Go and tell your master that we have been charged by god with a sacred quest. Then go tell your master we are following god's orders to find a sacred object. If he will give us food and shelter for the night, he can join us in our quest for the Holy Grail. If you provide us with lodging for the night and meals, we will allow you to join our quest for the sacred wine glass. Well, I'll ask him. But I don't think he'll be very keen. Uh, he's already got one, you see? I can ask my master but it's probably just a waste of time. We already have one. What? What? He says they've already got one! They already have one? Are you sure he's got one? Are you sure you already have one? Oh, yes! It's very nice, uh. Yes, we really have one. I told him we already got one. We lied. Well, um...can we come up and have a look? I see, then we would like to see it. Of course not! You are English types, uh. Don't joke around. I'm not going to show it to English pigs. Well what are you then? Who the hell are you? I'm French! Why do you think I have this outrageous accent, you sill king? I'm French. Can't you tell from this distinguished face, you stupid English king? What are you doing in England? What are you doing in England? Mind your own business. None of your business. If you will not show us the grail, we shall take your castle by force. If you don't show us your sacred wine glass, we will use force to enter your castle. You don't frighten us, English pig-dogs! It's no use for you to threaten us, English pigs. Go and boil your bottom, sons of a silly person. Just leave immediately and go through some garbage. That would serve you right. I blow my nose at you, so-called Arthur King. You and all your silly English knnnniggits! If you come any closer, I'll blow some booger on you. King Arthur, come here you airhead! [raspberry] Idiot! Nananana poo-poo! What a strange person. What a strange man. Now look here, my good man. Hey look over here. I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty-headed, animal food-trough wiper! I fart in your general direction. I don't want to talk to you any longer. It makes me stupid when I talk to idiots. I can tell just how you were brought up just by looking at your expression! Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of eldeberries! I can easily imagine what kind of a couple your parents were. Is ther someone else up there we could talk to? Isn't there somebody else other than you we can talk to? No! Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time, uh. Just beat it you bunch of hooligans! Now this is your last chance...I've been more than reasonable. This is your last chance. Start talking more seriously. Pitchez la vache! [not sure about that. my french is *very* rusty.] Bring the cow. Que? What? Pitchez la vache! I said bring out the cow! If you do not agree to my command, the I shall... If you ignore my orders then I will...I will... Jesus Christ! What's this? Right. Charge! Charge! Get them! Run away! Run away! Retreat! so that's all very funny. but here's what i don't get about this whole translating into one language and then back into the original. it seems like it should be...ok, like when you square a number and then take the square root, you end up back with the same number again. why shouldn't it be the same for languages? i can see in this case where the person doing the translation for the dub could've been subjective. but, in alta vista's babel fish thingy, they don't have some operator there doing the translations, do they? it's presumably "objective." "That socialism cannot or may never be attained does not mitigate capitalism's inherent inability to serve as the rational institutional standard for a just society or peaceful world, or lessen the need for a fundamental alternative embodying socialism's original objectives and inspiration to resolve many of the world's enormous problems." --Gabriel Kolko ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 12:09:15 PST From: "Capitalism Blows" Subject: Re: ps um, i thought mick jagger was the all-time leader in Rolling Stone cover appearances. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:24:57 -0600 (CST) From: Bret Subject: Re: transcribing fool (emphasis on >ever spent the afternoon alphabetizing their records.> >what about an entire fucking *weekend*? ACK! don't remind me, I have some severe alphabetizing to do. >i picked up the victor delorenzo solo album yesterday for 99 cents. >it's quite good. yes, eb, i was slumming it in the bargain section. I believe he has two, I have 'Peter Corey Sent Me' I believe that is it (I forgot with good reason). It is pure swill. I can ususally see something good in any record, but I must confess, it is the absolute worst thing I heve ever listened to. After 3 years of owning it, I have yet to get throught the entire thing. (and this coming from someone who likes Ween, and can even have tendancies of tolerance toward the Spice Girls)........ 99 cents, if it is the same one, my guess is you paid about $1.99 too much. - --Bret ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 14:36:15 -0600 (CST) From: sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain) Subject: Re[2]: Blur > Although Robyn is indeed 'jangly' and does on occasion sing about >fish i think its a tad unfair to suggest that the only way he could >possibly influence another group or artist is in these two areas. You are of course completely right. But since these are two "externals" that people seem to pick up on right away, it's only natural that people might mention them first. >I think it was fair to say that blur are influenced by hitchcock to a >degree, >they both have a very 'english' sound So do the Kinks, Martin Newell, Pulp, The Jam, and Noel Coward, to name five that came readily to mind, and I could think of others probably if I gave it time. I doubt that they're all influenced by RH or each other, at any rate it would be difficult to prove (in Sir Noel's case I think we can safely say that there is no Kinks influence, however :)). I mention Noel Coward because, though not a rawk star per se (only in a very very broad sense :)), he is also -very- English, and had a certain nostalgic love for Brittania that seemed constantly in conflict with his mischievous satirist's eye, and this reminds me quite strongly of a fellow named Davies who has a similar bent. So I -could- if I wanted say that -everyone- was influenced by Noel Coward just as easily. My point is that, while I'm not dismissing the possibility outright, IMHO influences are damn tricky to pinpoint and very easily confused with commonalities. Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:42:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Chris, the missing years." Subject: Re: ps > > ah, but at least you're not a 'nouveau-Westie' ;) >Westie isn't a location, it's a state of mind. Break out the tie-dyed >muslin and the Metallica t-shirts! ;) Westie isn't a location -or- a state of mind, it's a very charming breed of terrier. We've had two in my family and neither to my knowledge ever wore anything but the occasional dog sweater on especially chilly days, and certainly neither was a Metallica fan. In fact, our first Westie, who went by the name of Angus, didn't seem to care much for music one way or the other, and highly disappointed me by showing no reaction whatsoever to the end of the Sgt. Pepper CD which is supposed to contain dog-disturbing elements :). Love on ya, Susan unabashed fan of Westies, wherever they might reside ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:41:17 -0800 (PST) From: Karen Reichstein Subject: high fidelity! LJ Lindhurst wrote: >Have any of yous guys ever read a book called _High Fidelity_ by a writer >named Nick Hornby? Yes! I *loved* High Fidelity. Reading your post made me want to read it again, but I've got several other books I haven't finished for nearly a month now. Actually, Nick Hornby has a new novel coming out within the next year, I believe--the New Yorker fiction issue had an excerpt from it. It's about a young man who decides to only date single mothers, as he finds that they're extremely grateful for any male attention whatsoever. But, as you might expect, the protagonist has the tables turned on him. I've also been looking for a copy of "Fever Pitch," Hornby's first novel, which I believe is about soccer. It's out of print, though. Any English fegs got a copy lying around they might want to trade? karen ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:57:21 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: what's yer fave condiment? - -- karen asks about "comfort food" it doesn't strictly match her definition, because it doesn't bring back childhood memories -- tho that would scarcely be comforting for some of us - -- but mine is definitely sushi. on a really bad day, i can blow sixty bucks trying to recover my equilibrium with raw fish. i think it's something about the ritual and orderliness of a sushi meal and the attention to visual as well as culinary aesthetics, and the contrast that provides to the sort of disorder and ugliness (philosophical, mostly) that makes one require comfort food to start with. it's certainly the only reason i'm not strictly vegetarian. terrence: > You want to talk about sexism? Take five guys and have them dress and > act like the Spice Girls. See how many times *they* make the cover of > Rolling Stone. er, did ratt ever make the cover of rolling stone? there weren't five of motley crue, were there... bayard: > I can't believe I missed Quail, LJ, Gene, Doug and Neutral Milk Hotel. > Next time, folks. i missed me too. regret it now, though. politics of sex and gender roles, et al. not even going there. nope. nohow. - -- d. - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #89 ******************************