From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #77 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Saturday, February 28 1998 Volume 07 : Number 077 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Pax Quailius cum Ebus [Miles Goosens ] echoes of concerts past [Jeff Rosedale ] Muse-ic ["Runion-1, Michael" ] Re: Soy Bomb ["Maxey L. Mullins" ] Re: instrumentation [dmw ] "a hackman for all seasons" [Bayard ] Calvin Coolidge [Eb ] Omelette du fromage [Eb ] Do the subject lines even matter anymore? I think not. Thus, I shall just type the word "OBELISK" and leave it at that. [] Re: In sorrow not in anger [kenster@MIT.EDU (Ken Ostrander)] Ebashing [Jason Thornton ] Re: In sorrow not in anger [kenster@MIT.EDU (Ken Ostrander)] Re: Pax Quailius cum Ebus [dmw ] Re: Scrambled Cole [Jason Thornton ] Re: Scrambled Cole [Eb ] Re: In sorrow not in anger [sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain)] re: alt.soy.bomb [griffith ] Re: Pink Floyd (was: Do the subject...?) [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Re: In sorrow not in anger [Bayard ] Re: Scrambled Cole [Aidan Cully ] Re: Mystery CD (Warning: 90% Robyn!) ["Terry Linnig"] favs [dwdudic@erols.com (luther)] ob RT content [dwdudic@erols.com (elvis costello)] artists [donald andrew snyder ] Re: Boy Psalm [Terrence M Marks ] Re: Boy Psalm [Eb ] Re: Pink Floyd [Eb ] Re: Pink Floyd [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] woops...soy bomb update... [jeffery vaska ] Re: Soy Bomb mystery solved? [jeffery vaska ] Re: Pax Quailius cum Ebus [jeffery vaska ] Blows and bows [Capuchin ] Re: Pink Floyd [donald andrew snyder ] Perspective! [Capuchin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:03:10 -0600 From: Miles Goosens Subject: Re: Pax Quailius cum Ebus At 03:36 PM 2/27/98 -0500, The Great Quail wrote: >By writing about a piece, by critically exploring it, drawing fresh >conclusions, forging connections that may not have been there *until* the >critic creates them, by developing new metaphors to better understand the >work -- all these are acts of creation. Like it or not, true criticism is >an act of creation, and effort of will. The true critic takes a work to a >new level through her criticism -- it is something impossible to do by >the artist himself, or indeed, through a similar art. Actually, I was working on a similar riposte to the latest Eb thread, but lo and behold, The Quail said everything I wanted to say. It truly disgusted me to see Feglisters resorting to that old "if you're not a musician, what right do you have to speak" ploy -- it was just as senseless, nasty, and illogical as "those who can't do, teach." Lord knows I don't agree with Eb all of the time, or even most of the time (though I've noticed a recent trend towards greater congruence of our tastes), and sometimes I bristle at the near-ad hominim responses he submits for public consumption, but geez louise, Eb can say what he damn well pleases. A high percentage of the time he's able to back up his opinions with well-reasoned elaborations of his views, chock full of examples and exceptions. The fact that Eb is on this list shouldn't be a cause for fragmentation but for celebration. If he ever decides to leave this list, it'll be because we weren't worthy of him, not the other way around. later, Miles ============================================================== JASON WILKINS (of Neilson Hubbard): Victor's was just starting to happen, then it burned down. BILL LLOYD: That's a pretty good metaphor for the Nashville rock scene. -- NASHVILLE SCENE, Jan. 15, 1998 Miles Goosens outdoorminer@mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~outdoorminer/miles ============================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 16:09:19 EST From: Jeff Rosedale Subject: echoes of concerts past Here's a little backwards time loop: Ant Fly Smith Try that with a couple of Moroccan Margaritas under your belt and it takes on a whole new significance. And another thing, I'm getting tired of seeing the number 29 scroll past my screen at a million miles per hour. OK? --Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:54:38 -0500 From: "Runion-1, Michael" Subject: Muse-ic Bayard proudly proclaimed... > am I the only one on this crazy list who puts RH in the > middle podium, gold medal winner, #1 post modern artist, king of all > media except radio and mtv, top fav? come on-- who's with me????? I'm there with you, but my podium's a bit broader. Is anyone familiar with the ISO-9000 Document Control heirarchy? Eh...wait, this ain't a work email. sorry. Um...anyway...in the form of a less-competitive Olympic spirit, I offer my own pantheon of sorts: Gold: Robyn, REM, and Julian Silver: 20 or 30 other artists that I consistenly listen to and will buy their album releases no matter what, just maybe not the day they're released (examples: Michelle Shocked, Pearl Jam, Sinead O'Conner, Billy Bragg, Love & Rockets, Vic Chesnutt, Radiohead...) and some that don't exist per se anymore (Nirvana, Joy Division, Uncle Tupelo, etc...) Bronze: a slew (~50) of artists who I've enjoyed one or several albums by immensely, but picking up additions from their catalogue isn't my top priority (from Beck and Dylan to Social Distortion and Syd Straw) The thing is, I hardly ever try and defend my choices, because they are personal and I don't expect (or necessarily even want) others to think the same way. Then we'd be back in high school with everyone on the bus loving Smash Mouth this week, and next week kicking in the braces of anyone who doesn't despise them. My older son and daughter are going through this now and it's maddening to me. I much prefer my youngest (2 years old on Monday) daughter's viewpoint...when she gets home from daycare, she wants to watch Barney, no matter how much the rest of us hate him. To her, Barney is the coolest and greatest and she could give a damn what Mommie, Daddie and her sibs think. It's just that near constant comparison and competition between artists isn't for me. I love ya, like ya, or hate ya...and this isn't based on what my friends think, what Rolling Stone or ATN thinks, or whether you're somehow "better" or "worse" than Band X. So yeah, for what it's worth, I think me and Bayard are seein' eye to eye. Way to go, bro. Mike 'about to' Run 'out of gas..." ion Mike Runion EG&G S&MA Data & Analyses; ADoCS Office 867-3619 BOC-251 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:17:04 -0600 From: "Maxey L. Mullins" Subject: Re: Soy Bomb i'm gonna have to agree with eb on this one. i can't stand watching paula cole perform. she's too jerky. she has some good songs but she looks as if she's trying too hard to perform. it seems to me that she is pretending to feel the songs when actually she much rather be doing something else. =joel Jason Thornton wrote: > > At 04:40 PM 2/26/98 -0700, the rock critic of the gods wrote: > > >12. I don't mind Paula Cole's music, but she is utterly unwatchable as a > >performer. > > Unwatchable? She's one of the most talented, intense performers out there > today. And talk about range, diversity and unpredictability...and quite > the opposite of emotionally flat as well... > > Actually though, considering how highly I do think of Paula Cole, I'm > surprised at how well her recent album has done, and by her numerous > nominations. Yes, I'm a pessimist when it comes to the Record Buying > Public, and the Grammys. > > >Take it down a peg, sweetie. > > Robyn, take it up a peg. Paula, "take it down." Man, you ain't never > satisfied. ;) > > >And if you're not gonna shave, you > >could at least stop wearing sleeveless tops and lifting your arms up all > >the time. > > Now, *that*'s a pretty weak argument, Eb. Somewhat inane and insulting, > I'd say. How about a bikini contest for the "Best Female Artist" grammy? > > --Jason (who also agrees that the "why don't you do better" argument holds > no water - although I've seen Adrian Belew use it online) > > BTW, I've seen umpteen babillion "Best New Artist" nominations for artists > with more than one album out. What, exactly, *IS* the "rule" for this > category? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:41:10 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: instrumentation On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, KarmaFuzzz wrote: > In a message dated 98-02-26 19:00:25 EST, nicastr@idt.net writes: > >>On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Ben wrote: > >>> why don't you become one and show them how it's done? > > > >>...isn't that more or less how the world wound up with the pet shop boys? > >>(tongue protruding through cheek) > >I don't follow the Pet Shop Boys (#276), so I can't say, but I imagine they > >have spent more time making music than criticizing it. And they probably > >get sent a lot of advance copies of records too. > before forming PSB though, Neil Tennant was a music critic (as was Chrissie > Hynde, but that's another story). He formed Pet Shop Boys as a reaction to the > records he had to review, as he rarely found any he liked. that's all. > > and anyways, i happen to LIKE the pet shop boys so piss off ;) since i'm the one who brought it up in the first place, i'll point out that out of the few dozen psb songs i've heard, about 8 have really been killer, and i heard two albums that were pretty consistent. ...which is part of why my tongue was so thoroughly in cheek... ...like any of you were wondering... d. n.p. 5 chinese brothers _stone soup_ - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 16:52:52 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: "a hackman for all seasons" there's a (pretty easy) Gene Hackman trivia quiz at http://www.accessatlanta.com/entertainment/tvweek/tv_trivia.html =b ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:08:49 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Calvin Coolidge Quail wrote: >But I would like to >remind people that Eb never once wished this to be known to the List. Eb >never uses the "I'm a critic" thing to add weight to his words. To be >honest, more people use that as an accusation directed at him more than >anything else. Word up!!! >He also has bad taste in shirts, Hey, I thought that was a POSITIVE thing, on a Robyn Hitchcock list. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:09:18 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Omelette du fromage Jason wrote: >>I don't mind Paula Cole's music, but she is utterly unwatchable as a >>performer. > >Unwatchable? She's one of the most talented, intense performers out there >today. And talk about range, diversity and unpredictability...and quite >the opposite of emotionally flat as well... She's certainly not emotionally flat. I don't have anything significantly negative to say about her music, other than that it's way too conservative for me and I have zero personal interest in it. I even think that the song used in "Dawson's Creek" (don't know the title) is kinda pretty. But once I have to LOOK at her singing those songs....oof, then I get grumpy. I also might add that I saw her on SNL a week or so ago, and thought the performance was surprisingly poor, technically. I *first* saw her perform about a month ago, on the PBS show Sessions on 54th Street. I watched for about 15 minutes, and my eyes bugged out in horror. Someone else summed it up perfectly: "Joe Cocker-isms." Yep. But even Cole is easier to watch than Alanis.... >BTW, I've seen umpteen babillion "Best New Artist" nominations for artists >with more than one album out. What, exactly, *IS* the "rule" for this >category? Beats me. For whatever reason, the award seems to be not "Best New Artist," but "Best Artist To Newly Emerge Into the Mainstream." I think this explains why Tipsy wasn't nominated. ;) Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:08:21 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Do the subject lines even matter anymore? I think not. Thus, I shall just type the word "OBELISK" and leave it at that. Terrence wrote: >Robyn fails entirely to make my top 10... >I dig his music a lot, but I mean, there's >The Kinks, The Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder, Squeeze, Harry Nilsson, >The Monkees, The High Llamas, Pink Floyd, and Nirvana [the English one]) See, Ye Olde Detractor Eb ranks Robyn Hitchcock above everyone on that list, except the Beach Boys and probably Pink Floyd. In their prime, I prefer the Kinks and Wonder over Hitchcock, but those acts have so much post-prime mediocre product that I can't give them the nod. And yes, I almost demote the Beach Boys based on the same grounds, but Brian Wilson has contributed SO much to the way I hear music that I just can't bear to do it. Anyway, the Beach Boys' material minus Brian hardly even counts, arguably. And I haven't heard the English Nirvana either, and I don't even own any Nilsson records. >If I had paid full price for my copy of UK Squeeze or The Beach Boys Love You, >I would have thrown them both out the window. At $1 per, they're >a lot more palatable) I paid $1.99 for UK Squeeze, and I still find it palatable. ;) Hey Brandt, what did Mike Love say in that speech? I mean, I'm SURE it was pathetic, but what exactly did that egotistical, parasitic moron say? Eb PS No, I'm not going to post a "Top 30." That would be ridiculously wanky, self-indulgent and pointless, not to mention begging for trouble. Let's just say that I start with Beatles, Dylan and Costello, and leave it at that. And no amount of arguing is going to convince me that Hitchcock surpasses any of those three, though if you tell me that Hitchcock beats post-Beatles McCartney (not to mention Harrison and Starr), you won't hear the slightest peep of disagreement. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:23:13 -0500 From: kenster@MIT.EDU (Ken Ostrander) Subject: Re: In sorrow not in anger >#30, #5, #3... am I the only one on this crazy list who puts RH in the >middle podium, gold medal winner, #1 post modern artist, king of all >media except radio and mtv, top fav? come on-- who's with me????? right now, it's a pretty close race for me between robyn, lou reed, and jon langford. elvis costello's up there somewhere too. KEN np jon langford's _skull orchard_ saw him play last night and had an actual conversation with the man! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:23:16 -0800 From: Jason Thornton Subject: Ebashing At 06:59 PM 2/25/98 -0500, nicastr@idt.net (Ben) wrote: >Eb, since you seem to know what every musician is doing wrong or right, >why don't you become one and show them how it's done? In Eb's defense, despite the amount to which I disagree with his opinions and some of the conclusions he's reached - hell, I disagree with some of his basic assumptions ;) - don't we all judge and criticize everything to which we listen at least to some degree? Put quite simply, we all "like" and "dislike" stuff. Few are as vocal, or as highly vehement at times, as Eb...but, hell, I'm at least as opinionated as he is about just about every single thing I hear. I just don't post anywhere near as often as he does. Nor do I get paid for it! Damn! I have absolutely no problem with Eb expressing and holding certain opinions - but, if he's going to be vocal about them, then others should not feel guilty about vocally disagreeing with him. Hopefully, though, they will continue to do so without resorting to needless Ebashing. Heck, I oftentimes find opposing viewpoints, if well-stated (ie, not in the form of a long list of artists), to be as enlightening as the gush-posts. Cheers! - -------------------------------------------------------------- Jason R. Thornton || Chapman Stick, Silver #2125 - -------------------------------------------------------------- "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson - -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:34:16 -0500 From: kenster@MIT.EDU (Ken Ostrander) Subject: Re: In sorrow not in anger >#30, #5, #3... am I the only one on this crazy list who puts RH in the >middle podium, gold medal winner, #1 post modern artist, king of all >media except radio and mtv, top fav? come on-- who's with me????? right now, it's a pretty close race for me between robyn, lou reed, and jon langford. elvis costello's up there somewhere too; but then again there are so many artists up there that i'm tempted to list 'em all off. KEN np jon langford's _skull orchard_ saw him play last night and had an actual conversation with the man! i'm still woozy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:33:21 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: Pax Quailius cum Ebus On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Miles Goosens wrote: > It truly disgusted me to see Feglisters resorting to that old "if you're > not a musician, what right do you have to speak" ploy -- it was just as > senseless, nasty, and illogical as "those who can't do, teach." hear, hear. i think criticism is honorable, if done honestly. (of course, i'd have to, wouldn't i?) i don't always agree with Eb (am i the only one who thinks of Eb as "E-flat?") but the posts have often been both amusing and thought-provoking even when i disagree vehemently. and folks, i know few who would stand for the amount of rudeness i've seen thrown Eb's way of late. (props to the apology, tho.) hell, on the loudlist, we aren't even that mean to jrt456 (another pro critic, for what it's worth). ...and i'm not sure i'm up for much more of my sudden unplanned subscription to the "Pros and Cons of Eb-list" (even tho i no i'm contributing to the noise to signal ratio with this one. i won't speak of this again.) - -- d. - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:49:28 -0800 From: Jason Thornton Subject: Re: Scrambled Cole At 02:09 PM 2/27/98 -0700, Eb wrote: >[Paula Cole]'s certainly not emotionally flat. I don't have anything significantly >negative to say about her music, other than that it's way too conservative >for me and I have zero personal interest in it. I even think that the song >used in "Dawson's Creek" (don't know the title) is kinda pretty. Definitely not the most interesting track on "This Fire" ("I don't want to wait"), but a terrific song. Actually, one of the more intriguing sections of that song was left off the single, for some reason. Probably "too weird" for the mainstream listeners. >But once I >have to LOOK at her singing those songs....oof, then I get grumpy. I also >might add that I saw her on SNL a week or so ago, and thought the >performance was surprisingly poor, technically. I *first* saw her perform >about a month ago, on the PBS show Sessions on 54th Street. I watched for >about 15 minutes, and my eyes bugged out in horror. I gotta disagree with you about her singing abilities, and how good she is, technically. She does some incredible things with her voice. But, I can understand how an artist's mannerisms can detract from the overall package. :) >Someone else summed it up perfectly: "Joe Cocker-isms." Yep. But >even Cole is easier to watch than Alanis.... I really don't mind Cocker-isms, and other musician-getting-into-it faces, like the lead-guitarist-soloing-taking-a-dump face and such - I think they're more "real," more authentic, than people usually think they are. But, if grossly exaggerated, I see how they can bug. >>BTW, I've seen umpteen babillion "Best New Artist" nominations for artists >>with more than one album out. What, exactly, *IS* the "rule" for this >>category? > >Beats me. For whatever reason, the award seems to be not "Best New Artist," >but "Best Artist To Newly Emerge Into the Mainstream." I think this >explains why Tipsy wasn't nominated. ;) The one grammy Cole did win, I didn't think she deserved. Maybe she deserved it in 1995 for "Harbringer," which is probably a better album that "This Fire" (despite the fact Tony Levin wasn't on it) - but, I don't really see her as "new" by any means. Considering when "This Fire" was released (October 1996), she might have gotten this award last year! Of course, who expects the Grammys to be anything but out of date? Cheers! - -------------------------------------------------------------- Jason R. Thornton || Chapman Stick, Silver #2125 - -------------------------------------------------------------- "Only the few know the sweetness of the twisted apples." - Sherwood Anderson - -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:05:33 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Scrambled Cole >The one grammy Cole did win, I didn't think she deserved. Maybe she >deserved it in 1995 for "Harbringer," which is probably a better album that >"This Fire" (despite the fact Tony Levin wasn't on it) - but, I don't >really see her as "new" by any means. Considering when "This Fire" was >released (October 1996), she might have gotten this award last year! Incidentally, I've been trying to remember something...I seem to have Cole's career confused with someone else. Who was it who was on (I think?) RCA a few years ago, who recorded an album of nothing but Tom Waits covers? It was "The [woman's name] Trio," I'm pretty sure. I was thinking it was Paula Cole for awhile, but lately I've realized that I'm wrong. The name's gotta be similar...anyone know? Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:00:55 -0600 From: sdodge@midway.uchicago.edu (amadain) Subject: Re: In sorrow not in anger >So just b/c you like Stevie Wonder better than RH, that means I should >too? Why? and what's your definition of "better"? I've heard all the >bands you listed (except the "english nirvana") . I like RH better. Are >you saying I have poor taste? It's all subjectivity. Yuppers, it does seem to come down to that. And I'm rather fond of RH, myself. In fact, I have a rather large music collection and still he is my favorite songwriter. Odd, that. >#30, #5, #3... am I the only one on this crazy list who puts RH in the >middle podium, gold medal winner, #1 post modern artist, king of all Well, I dunno as I'd go -that- far. I mean, he isn't my favorite -writer- or my favorite -painter-, to name two other things he does relatively well, but not spectacularly. But as far as songwriting goes, yeah, he's my favorite, and even on a bad day he still makes my top 5 :). Love on ya, Susan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:20:40 -0800 (PST) From: griffith Subject: re: alt.soy.bomb Subject: alt.soy.bomb an alternative soy bomb explination closer to a feg mentality...though judging by its anti-cheese proclamation it must be an evil anti-feg.... >Subject: Soy Bomb!!! >From: jsmooth@escape.com >Date: 1998/02/26 >Message-ID: <6d4p0s$3r2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com> >Newsgroups: rec.music.dylan > >Attention mindless lemmings of Amerikkka! I am a representative of the Soy >Bomb Nation, pledged to destroy this cheese-encrusted culture. We have now >released the official SOY BOMB MANIFESTO, which is located at this address: > http://www.hiphopmusic.com/soybomb.html > Stand up today and join us in our call to BURN THE CHEESE!!! > > Burn the Cheese!!! "Somebody ring the cheese alarm" sorry, could not resist. Have a good weekend all............... = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Griffith Davies hbrtv219@csun.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:34:53 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: Pink Floyd (was: Do the subject...?) >Terrence wrote: >>Robyn fails entirely to make my top 10... >>I dig his music a lot, but I mean, there's >>The Kinks, The Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder, Squeeze, Harry Nilsson, >>The Monkees, The High Llamas, Pink Floyd, and Nirvana [the English one]) > >See, Ye Olde Detractor Eb ranks Robyn Hitchcock above everyone on that >list, except the Beach Boys and probably Pink Floyd. In their prime, I >prefer the Kinks and Wonder over Hitchcock, but those acts have so much >post-prime mediocre product that I can't give them the nod. And yes, I >almost demote the Beach Boys based on the same grounds, but Brian Wilson >has contributed SO much to the way I hear music that I just can't bear to >do it. Anyway, the Beach Boys' material minus Brian hardly even counts, >arguably. > Pink Floyd better than Hitchcock? The Floyd catalouge is wildly inconsitant, at best. There's some masterpieces ("Dark Side", "Piper", "Wish You Were Here"), some okay stuff ("Meddle", "Obscurred by Clouds", "Animals") and quite a bit of disasters (the studio disc of "Ummagumma", "Saucerful", "Atom Heart", "Final Cut"). And then there's the post Waters "Floyd", a methodical, lumbering trio of museum artifacts augmented by about 30 studio musicians. These guys make the Moody Blues look exciting. Even if you discount the post-Waters nostalgia peddling band, I think the mighty Floyd have had too many releases of mediocre to poor qulaity to rank them above Robyn. I'll take another 20 years of "jangley folk songs" over "A Momentary Lapse of Reason" (were they inviting the jokes with this title?) any day. - - Ben (who plays Mellotron quite well, actually) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:32:44 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re: In sorrow not in anger On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, amadain wrote: > Well, I dunno as I'd go -that- far. I mean, he isn't my favorite -writer- or > my favorite -painter-, to name two other things he does relatively well, but > not spectacularly. But as far as songwriting goes, yeah, he's my favorite, > and even on a bad day he still makes my top 5 :). i was being melodramatic. he's not the best writer or painter in the world, nor (i'm sure!) would he claim to be. but as you say, his efforts are not bad at all. versatility again! :) =b ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:37:48 -0500 From: Aidan Cully Subject: Re: Scrambled Cole On Fri, Feb 27, 1998 at 03:05:33PM, Eb let loose: > >The one grammy Cole did win, I didn't think she deserved. Maybe she > >deserved it in 1995 for "Harbringer," which is probably a better album that > >"This Fire" (despite the fact Tony Levin wasn't on it) - but, I don't > >really see her as "new" by any means. Considering when "This Fire" was > >released (October 1996), she might have gotten this award last year! > > Incidentally, I've been trying to remember something...I seem to have > Cole's career confused with someone else. Who was it who was on (I think?) > RCA a few years ago, who recorded an album of nothing but Tom Waits covers? > It was "The [woman's name] Trio," I'm pretty sure. I was thinking it was > Paula Cole for awhile, but lately I've realized that I'm wrong. The name's > gotta be similar...anyone know? I believe this was Holly Cole's album "Temptation," but I'm not sure.. I don't go in much for TW covers. - --aidan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 11:07:54 -0600 From: "Terry Linnig" Subject: Re: Mystery CD (Warning: 90% Robyn!) I think that's the Sequel Records Sampler. I may have an extra copy which I'd be willing to trade. Terry ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Mystery CD (Warning: 90% Robyn!) Author: Nick Winkworth at SMTPGATE Date: 2/27/98 9:45 AM Just curious. Can you help me identify a Robyn CD I just came across the other day which I was not previously aware of? ...what am I saying, I *know* you can! It is seemingly just called "Robyn Hitchcock" on a UK label (sorry I forgot which one) dated 1995. It has an interesting selection of tracks from various albums including EOL, Invisible and others. The only previously unreleased track is Statue With A Walkman. Recognize it anyone? I always object to buying a compilation for just *one* new track, but I was not aware of this release before. Rarity value perhaps? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:42:13 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: Scrambled Cole On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > Incidentally, I've been trying to remember something...I seem to have > Cole's career confused with someone else. Who was it who was on (I think?) > RCA a few years ago, who recorded an album of nothing but Tom Waits covers? > It was "The [woman's name] Trio," I'm pretty sure. I was thinking it was > Paula Cole for awhile, but lately I've realized that I'm wrong. The name's > gotta be similar...anyone know? Holly Cole. her second album, _Blame It On My Youth_, which i think has just been reissued, is pretty snazzy. The creepiest version of "On the Street Where You Live" you will ever hear, and a very fun rendition of Lyle Lovett's "God Knows." and other goodies. the Waits cover disc, _Temptation_ was too much, imho, of the Waits that when he does it i'm never sure whether he's being sacharrinely sentimental or dripping with irony (c.f. "in the neighborhood") and too little of Waits the scary spooky noisy storyman (c.f. "frank's wild years", "16 shells from a 30-ought six"). here new one is a little too slick in places for my taste, but still has some strong singing and compelling arrangements, and her taste in material - -- h. cole is an interpretive singer in the jazz tradition, not a singer-songwriter -- remains intriguing). - -- d. - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:48:51 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (luther) Subject: favs On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:42:11 -0500 (EST), you wrote: > >#30, #5, #3... am I the only one on this crazy list who puts RH in the >middle podium, gold medal winner, #1 post modern artist, king of all >media except radio and mtv, top fav? come on-- who's with me????? > >=b Well, I am, WITH the condition that I am equally a fan of Richard Thompson (as I think ya'll know! :-) ) and Patti Smith (WHO Should have won the grammy!) Also, right below that is Fela Anikulapo Kuti (R.I.P.), Talking Heads, American Music CLub, and kd lang. -luther ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:50:48 GMT From: dwdudic@erols.com (elvis costello) Subject: ob RT content On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:42:11 -0500 (EST), you wrote: >Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:29:09 -0600 >From: "Maxey L. Mullins" >Subject: Re: Versatility > >Gary Sedgwick wrote: >> >> >>Oh, and someone said something about the acoustic guitar not being >> >>versatile. What are you talking about? You obviously know nothing >> >>about the guitar. I've been playing for about 8 years. >> > >> >I didn't say that, of course (or did I?) - I've been playing 20 years >> and I >> >agree, but you can't say that an acoustic guitar by itself is more >> versatile >> >than an 8-piece band with separate horn and string sections. (And, >> >presumably, a good arranger.) ...YOU can if it is in the hands of RIchard Thompson!!! -luther >> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:28:15 -0600 (CST) From: donald andrew snyder Subject: artists On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > Terrence wrote: > >Robyn fails entirely to make my top 10... > >I dig his music a lot, but I mean, there's > >The Kinks, The Beach Boys, Stevie Wonder, Squeeze, Harry Nilsson, > >The Monkees, The High Llamas, Pink Floyd, and Nirvana [the English one]) > > See, Ye Olde Detractor Eb ranks Robyn Hitchcock above everyone on that > list, except the Beach Boys and probably Pink Floyd. In their prime, I > prefer the Kinks and Wonder over Hitchcock, but those acts have so much > post-prime mediocre product that I can't give them the nod. And yes, I > almost demote the Beach Boys based on the same grounds, but Brian Wilson > has contributed SO much to the way I hear music that I just can't bear to > do it. Anyway, the Beach Boys' material minus Brian hardly even counts, > arguably. I've never thought of it quite like this. I guess it's the fairest way. Still, I prefer to compare according to best works and also break the categories up a bit. I think Susan was alluding to this when she said Robyn was her fav. songwriter. I'd add musicianship (great guitar players for me), singers, music writing (this includes melodies/harmonies), and style/creativity (for me this is mainly psychedelic touches). I'd put Robyn in w/ Dylan, Costello, Waits, Westerberg, Davies, Miller and Newman in the songwriter category. He is also one of the few that aren't lacking in the other categories. I'd put Richard Thompson for instance in both writer and guitarist category, but Tom Verlaine, Ry Cooder, Sonny Sharrock, Roy Buchanan, Jimi Hendrix, Marc Ribot, and Bill Frisell would only make the latter (I just realized that a lot of this crosses over into music writing, but oh well). The Beach Boys rank high on singing and music writing, but sometimes leave me lacking in lyrics and style. Nilsson makes the singers; High Llamas and Pink Floyd make the style group (so does Yo La Tengo, Elephant 6 stuff, Radiohead, Pere Ubu, Sonic Youth, etc.) > PS No, I'm not going to post a "Top 30." That would be ridiculously wanky, > self-indulgent and pointless, not to mention begging for trouble. Let's > just say that I start with Beatles, Dylan and Costello, and leave it at > that. And no amount of arguing is going to convince me that Hitchcock > surpasses any of those three, though if you tell me that Hitchcock beats > post-Beatles McCartney (not to mention Harrison and Starr), you won't hear > the slightest peep of disagreement. This is another point. Comparing individuals is much different than bands. I'd put Robyn head to head with almost any one individual artist even if his solo acoustic stuff fails to catch my ears in the same way as late 60s Beatles/Kinks, 70s Big Star/Band, 80s Replacements/REM/XTC, 90s Loud Family/Apples in Stereo/Guided by Voices. Now if he'd get the band back together to rawk... - --Andy PS: I can't understand how anyone can listen to Robyn and not want to write a song. Sure criticism is art, but I'd only lump a few of the ones mentioned (Derrida and Foucault) in with the great artists. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:05:10 -0500 (EST) From: Terrence M Marks Subject: Re: Boy Psalm On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > See, Ye Olde Detractor Eb ranks Robyn Hitchcock above everyone on that > list, except the Beach Boys and probably Pink Floyd. In their prime, I > prefer the Kinks and Wonder over Hitchcock, but those acts have so much > post-prime mediocre product that I can't give them the nod. And yes, I > almost demote the Beach Boys based on the same grounds, but Brian Wilson > has contributed SO much to the way I hear music that I just can't bear to > do it. Anyway, the Beach Boys' material minus Brian hardly even counts, > arguably. Umm... That's rather akin to saying "Tintern Abbey has never made a bad song. Robyn has made several. Therefore Tintern Abbey is considerably better than Robyn". (Tintern Abbey is an obscure group who released one good single and broke up) Or saying that Syd Barrett can't be that great because he hasn't done anything in 25 years, but Racecar must be good because they just released a single yesterday. Besides, if you know that the recent material is bad, why listen to it? I mean, I don't go about listening to Laugh, Scum of the Earth, How She Boogalooed it, I want to pick you up, If You Go Away, The Shapes Between Us Turn Into Animals, Black Man, Fixing a Hole or If You've Got It because I know I'll dislike it. Likewise, I'm not going to pick up any new Beach Boys discs because that's just musical self-flagellation. (ObApology to all those who like those songs) What I'm saying is that though Robyn is generally consistantly good, I don't see his top-rate songs as up there with Stevie Wonder or Pink Floyd in top form. (eg. Steamboat, Can't Wait Too Long, Visions, As, Lucifer Sam, Grantchester Meadows) However, Robyn's albums are generally stronger than any of the aforementioned bands' albums. If Robyn crashes and burns tomorow, would you start disliking him? Do you dislike The Sofy Boys because their 1994 tour was just rehash? (Kinda like the beach Boys, give or take doing it for 15 years) > And I haven't heard the English Nirvana either, and I don't even own any > Nilsson records. Harry Nilsson is the best singer I have ever heard. Pick up one of his albums if you can find it. (except Pussycats. You'd figure that with Harry, Ringo, John Lennon and Keith Moon, they could make a decent album. They couldn't.) Nirvana (the original one) is, well, probably a lot closer to my style than yours. Psychedelic operas with orchestra. And are Armed Forces and This Year's nModel two of Costello's better albums? Terrence Marks normal@grove.ufl.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:19:43 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Boy Psalm Terrence wrote: >That's rather akin to saying "Tintern Abbey has never made a bad song. >Robyn has made several. Therefore Tintern Abbey is considerably better >than Robyn". (Tintern Abbey is an obscure group who released one >good single and broke up) No, not really. >Or saying that Syd Barrett can't be that great because he hasn't done >anything in 25 years, but Racecar must be good because they just released >a single yesterday. No, not really. >Harry Nilsson is the best singer I have ever heard. >Pick up one of his albums if you can find it. I used to have Nilsson Sings Newman and The Point, but ah well...not anymore. I can't get behind too many artists, based PURELY on their voices. Though I really do need to get some Billie Holiday records, one of these days -- possibly my favorite artist whom I own nothing by (either her, or Bob Marley). Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:24:12 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Pink Floyd Ben wrote: >The Floyd catalouge is wildly inconsitant, at best. Wel, tehre are enouhg peeks that I rakn it above Robym's. >There's some masterpieces ("Dark Side", "Piper", >"Wish You Were Here"), some okay stuff ("Meddle", "Obscurred by Clouds", >"Animals") and quite a bit of disasters (the studio disc of "Ummagumma", >"Saucerful", "Atom Heart", "Final Cut"). I think you're in the vast minority, considering The Final Cut and Saucerful of Secrets "disasters." And no mention of The Wall? >And then there's the post Waters >"Floyd", a methodical, lumbering trio of museum artifacts augmented by >about 30 studio musicians. These guys make the Moody Blues look exciting. Sure, no argument. (Well, I *would* rather see the current Pink Floyd than the Moody Blues.) However, I prefer to think of Pink Floyd as ending after The Final Cut. Or mayyybe after A Momentary Lapse of Reason (which I don't like much at all). And no, I don't even own any of the subsequent releases. With keep-going-for-the-money dinosaur bands like that, I think there's a place where you have to stop considering the band "the real deal." I mean, if I went to see Procol Harum or Steppenwolf today, I really wouldn't be able to tell myself that I truly saw THE Procol Harum or THE Steppenwolf. If you know what I mean. (Obviously, there are many other examples I could've used.) I saw the Cowsills a few years ago, opening up for Redd Kross. But did I really see THE COWSILLS? Nah, somehow didn't feel like it. Years and years ago, I saw "The Byrds" play at Magic Mountain (a LA-area theme park). Yes, Gene Clark was the singer, but beyond that, ehhh.... Aidan (and Doug) informed: >I believe this was Holly Cole's album "Temptation," but I'm not sure.. I >don't go in much for TW covers. Yes! That's it. Thanks. Knew the name had to be similar.... Donald wrote: >I'd put Robyn in w/ Dylan, Costello, Waits, Westerberg, Davies, Miller and >Newman >in the songwriter category. See, and I would rank RH *miles* above Scott Miller, and even above Randy Newman (too many slick, so-so albums) and Paul Westerberg (I might like Tim and Let It Be better than anything by RH, but then there are his OTHER records...). Davies is so hard to call...from 1964 to 1971, I *definitely* rank him above Hitchcock. But after that, not a chance. >The Beach Boys rank high on singing and music >writing, but sometimes leave me lacking in lyrics and style. The Beach Boys, lacking style?? Eb, who (sorry) ranks Tom Waits above RH too ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:09:23 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: Pink Floyd >Ben wrote: >>The Floyd catalouge is wildly inconsitant, at best. > >Wel, tehre are enouhg peeks that I rakn it above Robym's. > But I would say that there are enough lows to rank it below Robyn's. I believe most people would agree that besides "Groovy Decoy/Decay", Robyn hasn't released any major embarassments or disappointments. I don't think the same could be said for the Floyd, even pre "Momentary Lapse". >>There's some masterpieces ("Dark Side", "Piper", >>"Wish You Were Here"), some okay stuff ("Meddle", "Obscurred by Clouds", >>"Animals") and quite a bit of disasters (the studio disc of "Ummagumma", >>"Saucerful", "Atom Heart", "Final Cut"). > >I think you're in the vast minority, considering The Final Cut and >Saucerful of Secrets "disasters." And no mention of The Wall? > I don't know... personally I haven't heard anyone say anything good about the Final Cut, but I suppose a "disaster" is too strong a word for these albums. More like, they are quite dissapointing considering the heights that Floyd were capable of. It seemed like between Syd leaving and "Dark Side" they were scrambling for some kind of identity, and this produced it's share of misses. As for the Wall, it's okay, but I certainly wouldn't regard it as highly as a lot of people seem to do. It's ultimately an unsatisfying album for me, although it contains some excellent songs as well as some wonderfully lyrical guitar solos from Dave Gilmour. But overall, it is to full of the overbearing presence of Waters, which can be quite suffocating at times. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:58:21 -0800 From: jeffery vaska Subject: woops...soy bomb update... halo, sorry, but my previous comment about the soybombers probably didn't make much sense...i forgot to include this... IMPORTANT NEWS: Our leader, Captain Soy will make his first radio appearance Friday morning Feb. 27th on WKDF in Nashville, where he will be interviewed by Big Dave and The Dook!!! is there anybody in nashville who will hear this? i'm dying of curiousity pains... email me on or off... thanks...jv ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:46:20 -0800 From: jeffery vaska Subject: Re: Soy Bomb mystery solved? haloo people...yow! ok, is there anybody who will actually be able to listen to this? i am so curious it's just not even funny. i LOVE these people...i hope they do even more stupid stuff... 90's politicially incorrect activism? yay!!!!!! ta-ra!....jv ps: if you do hear it, you can email me off list if you choose. np: industrial hum music provided by my furnace Eb wrote: > > http://www.hiphopmusic.com/soybomb.html > > Look at this URL which a friend just sent me! > > Eb ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:13:36 -0800 From: jeffery vaska Subject: Re: Pax Quailius cum Ebus The Great Quail wrote: > Touching the Eb Issue: > > Lately things have stacked up pretty grimly around Eb. Now, Eb certainly > has his defendants and his detractors, but the caliber of some recent > posts has taken a most unpleasant tone. mmm-huh...yep and for the parties involved just think how much you'd quake at each others site if you were neighbors... oddly enough, "we are family..." if anything, i have greatly enjoyed sitting back and watching this thread develop. and a robyn thought!!! today i put on my nifty green and orange moss elix tour shirt...does anybody know why or what the upside down duck is all about?...is this re-hashing pre-hashed hash? in the two years or so that i've been on this list, i've never read so much of it before...thanks gang for all the fun... cheers...jv ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:56:47 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Blows and bows On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Maxey L. Mullins wrote: > yes gary i do agree that the voice is the most versatile instrument. > but i'm not sure about the harmonica ranking so high on that list. all > guitars would be more versatile in my opinion. and what about the > piano? and let's not forget the drums. a good drummer can give the > drums quite a lot of versatility. I've said it before and I'll say it again, guitars do next to nothing for me. I'm going to get beat on the head for this, but I'm going to give it a shot. I find guitars are overused and overvalued. Look what Morphine does without one? It's still fairly straightforward rock and still evokes all the same feelings across the board. Guitars just seem like petty accompaniment that nearly anyone that sings can pick up and pick at. It's something you can play while singing. It's something that's easy to carry around. People use pianos or guitars to write songs because of the obvious tonal range of the instruments and because plucking out individual notes is effortless. Maybe you find one to be extra-expressive, but to me, that's just because more people use them so you can find a wider range of pieces. Yeah, there are great players. Robyn plays guitar extraordinarily well sometimes and all kinds of people do nifty things with them, but that's not my point at all. My point is that the instrument itself doesn't lend itself to any kind of better expression to my ears. In fact, due to its overuse, I'd say I'm mostly dulled to them and find them bland and dulling. Guitar solos, for example, are just showoffy wanking for the most part. Nope, got no real love for Hendrix. Got no real love for B.B. King. I don't get anything from it. I'd rather hear Devo's cover of "Are You Experienced?" than the original. When does a guitar part make me get up and feel something? Rarely. There are, of course, exceptions. The guitar part in "I Am Not Me" brings up all kinds of feelings I won't even describe to you people, but only when juxtaposed with the vocals. "Chinese Water Python" has a neat little Mozarty feel that's pleasant and stimulating. (I'm picking Robyn examples because we all know them and because he's one of the few guitar based people I can handle.) Most of you guitar supporters are guitar players. I've noticed that. Why is that? Well, because you love guitars, for one, and because everyone and their brother plays guitar. Me, I play horns (and until someone actually hears me try, I'm going to keep claiming I do). I'd say I'll get a much wider range of emotion lit in me by a trumpet or trombone than any guitar. A fast flying trumpet will get me up on my feet and flying faster than anything. A low, slow, brooding trumpet can wipe a smile off my face and bring me to tears on the happiest day of my life. Yeah, "Veins Of The Queen" is way up on my favorites list. But the tones are sharp and with too many vocal qualities. They're loud and you play them with your mouth. You can't sing while playing it and if someone behind you is playing, they'd better be playing low or be muted to hell. Pianos and guitars are super wimpy in my book. They're for Billy Joel and James Taylor. Blech. A piano can't express any kind of joy without laying about seven feet of chain across the strings and playing Joplin or some other radical alteration. Guitars almost always fail to make me smile. I can't think of a happy guitar song that would still be happy at all without the vocals. I'm not saying I have to have happiness all the time, I'm saying that the inability to make one smile is a serious failing in the world of expressive range. The world would be a better place if half the piano players traded their instruments in for harpsichords and synthesizers and three quarters of the world's guitar players picked up violins, violas and cellos. If you read all of this, I hope you get well soon, Je. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 00:31:41 -0600 (CST) From: donald andrew snyder Subject: Re: Pink Floyd On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > The Beach Boys, lacking style?? Well I would put Pet Sounds, Smile, and Surf's Up in with the best band albums. I don't even think (heresy coming) the Beatles reached their level of harmonic perfection. Still, I find that I like a little more grit. Maybe they could put in more guitars... - -Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:29:51 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Perspective! On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Ben wrote: > >Ben wrote: > >>The Floyd catalouge is wildly inconsitant, at best. > >Wel, tehre are enouhg peeks that I rakn it above Robym's. This was hilarious to me. OK, maybe mean and picky because we all make mistakes that slip, but boyo! Proof-read. > I > believe most people would agree that besides "Groovy Decoy/Decay", Robyn > hasn't released any major embarassments or disappointments. And I would say that most people would have no idea who you're talking about. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, breaking it down even further, most people in the english speaking world that regularly listen to song-based popular music would say "Robyn Hitchcock? Never heard of her." or something very similar. Just a reminder. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #77 ******************************