From: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org (fegmaniax-digest) To: fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Subject: fegmaniax-digest V7 #73 Reply-To: fegmaniax@smoe.org Sender: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-fegmaniax-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk fegmaniax-digest Thursday, February 26 1998 Volume 07 : Number 073 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: In sorrow not in anger [Capuchin ] Re: instrumentation [seven@cs.utwente.nl (Susan Even)] Re:IRC and ICQ [dlang ] Re: Don't start [dlang ] Round Two! [Gary Sedgwick ] Re: suchness and sameness...Mostly RH [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] odd querry [Bret ] Re: Pop Stars. . . some RH content [Bayard ] moss elixir ["Maxey L. Mullins" ] NPR [griffith ] Re: rh diversity ["JH3" ] sameness, or rather the discussion of same [Aaron Mandel ] freeze [Bayard ] Re: Fwd: NPR [Mark_Gloster@3com.com] Re: Catchin' up on some threads + [Ross Overbury ] Re: moss elixir [John Barrington Jones ] Re: instrumentation [dmw ] Re: instrumentation [Aaron Mandel ] Neutral Black Milk Cat Saturday Hotel [The Great Quail ] Look Back in Anger. Or, um, don't. [The Great Quail ] Robthro Tullcock [The Great Quail ] Re: instrumentatino [kenster@MIT.EDU (Ken Ostrander)] Soy Bomb [Eb ] Re: Look Back in Anger [Eb ] Re: Soy Bomb [Aaron Mandel ] Soy Bomb [Eb ] prolific-ivity [Bayard ] Soy Bomb [Eb ] Re: Soy Bomb [hal brandt ] Re: sameness, or rather the discussion of same ["Maxey L. Mullins" ] Re: In sorrow not in anger ["Maxey L. Mullins" ] Re: Soy Bomb [lj lindhurst ] the eb issue ["Maxey L. Mullins" ] Re: instrumentation [nicastr@idt.net (Ben)] Soy Bomb [Eb ] Re: bands v. solo careers [Eb ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:42:04 -0800 (PST) From: Capuchin Subject: Re: In sorrow not in anger On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Carole Reichstein wrote: > I've never been drawn into the Eb fray, but for crying out loud. I must > post. You say Robyn is incapable of putting a smile into his vocals? Are > you referring to his records, or to live performances? Um, I kind of agree with him, Carole, but I think we're taking it differently. Robyn's singing is kind of one-note (figuratively, of course... his singing has all kinds of notes and his vocal range of notes has already been discussed at length). When he sings angriness, he's singing ABOUT angriness and with measured strain and tension. He doesn't fly off and shout or scream or cry or anything. When he sings humor, he sings with dryness and droll irony and all that stuff that we love about him. He doesn't sing in a way that makes you think he has a huge grin on his face. Most of us have seen him live and up close on several occassions. Have you ever seen him smiling while singing? You get it alot in The Soft Boys' stuff and I really wish I was around to see Robyn saying "Give it to the soft boys! Take one... ha ha!" That laugh on A Can Of Bees is so unlike anything I've seen him vocalize in person. I've seen him smile and I've seen him laugh, but never while singing and probably only once or twice on stage (more smiling than laughing, for sure). He is, after all, English. He won't strangle you, he'll make you coffee and he'll make you toast. Yes these are generalizations as were Eb's. No, they don't stand up to every event, performance, and song. It's funny how you guys have cornered Eb in such a way that he can't concede even the smallest point. You flip out and when he gives even the tiniest bit, you flash these self-righteous grins that make a person rather they were still reviled. You know as well as I do that a person's opinion or decisions are rarely based solidly on empirical data and no amount of it will change a satisfied mind. What we have here coming from Eb and all is commentary. It's pretty meaningless to informed ears, but neverless fun and interesting to our bored, overeducated heads. Just words. J. ________________________________________________________ J A Brelin Capuchin ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:57:27 +0100 (MET) From: seven@cs.utwente.nl (Susan Even) Subject: Re: instrumentation > > Um, I really like Jewels For Sophia and maybe I haven't listened to it as > > many times as the folks that really love it, but why do you think this is > > so different from his other recent compositions? > > i'm not crazy about the song, but if memory serves (haven't listened to my > tape much since the orgy) it's a somewhat different style. Aaron and other recipients, On Jewels for Sophia, Tim plays the repetitive "da da da, da da da, . . ." lead guitar part. Groetjes, Susan p.s. I'm surprised nobody's responded to my "ice cream hands" query. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:10:27 +2910 From: dlang Subject: Re:IRC and ICQ This is the IRC server provided by the Grateful Dead >folks. It's easy to get on and friendly. Eb Well, I couldn't get on it. See what you get for saying such nasty things about the dead Eb, they instinctively place an embargo on you when you attempt to get on their chat lines. Its Karma catching up with you mmaaaaaaaaaaan! dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:30:52 +2910 From: dlang Subject: Re: Don't start leave it out. If you start wittering on like this you'll sound like a total wazzock. The whole list will go pearshaped and everyone will be sick as a parrot. And if that happens you'll get a right bollocking. A right bollocking, cor strike a light , you know how to make a bloke feel small, enough to make a bloke feel like he's fallen arse over tit!!. dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:00:44 -0000 From: Gary Sedgwick Subject: Round Two! OK, I'll make this brief. I think there's a lot of people missing the point of mine and Eb's comments on RH (except Russ). It's not that we don't like the more folky tunes, or don't like the wave of new songs, or don't like the Robyn sound... he's VERY good at what he does, and I enjoy listening to nearly everything he's recorded. And some people used the argument - "why do we want him to do any different?" "If he tries anything different it'll probably be crap!" THE POINT IS, in the early days, he used to blend a variety of styles, some rockier, some folkier; some abrasive, some gentle; some random, some predictable. And he did it SO well. In fact, there's nothing really to show that he's failed at producing good material in any style. Now, is there anyone on this list who absolutely hates the Soft Boys era stuff because not every song was jangly and folk based? I think not. Are there some of us that really like those songs for having diversity and being a bit more experimental? Yes. So, how could it possibly not help (or *have* helped - I fear it's a bit late in the day now) his career, and at the same time make a lot of his fans even happier, by trying out more non-jangly songs during his solo career? On Thu 26 Feb, "Maxey L. Mullins" wrote: >In my opinion, RH is one of the most diverse and original >artists around today. In fact, he's one of the ONLY artists around >today who is diverse and original. Over to you, Eb, if you can be bothered... ObOasis: The paper yesterday had a story in about Oasis's recent flight over to Australia. Basically they (Oasis and their entourage - about 30) had a riot, getting blind drunk, having food fights, hurling abuse and threatening other passengers with violence... at one point the pilot had to leave the cockpit and threaten to handcuff them to their seats unless they behaved. Quite a few passengers reported it to the police, who will be investigating the case. The point was made that if it had been any other crowd e.g. football supporters, they'd be in jail by now. And Liam's intelligent appraisal of the situation was "If someone tells me to shut up, I'm not going to like it. That pilot deserves a pick-axe in his fucking head." Anyone still want his love-child? Gary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 08:42:29 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: suchness and sameness...Mostly RH I'll try to blab a little less than usual here, but probably f(l)ail.... If we listen to the A&M years to the present, I think it's completely fair to say that Robyn is less punk/harsh/experimental than he used to be. He's said as much, and I think that there is something positive to be said for someone who eschews the need to express that youthful angst after so much of it passes. I celebrate Robyn's honesty in his choices at the same time as lamenting the fact that he can probably never write anything new that could stand next to "When Do Policemen Sing." Another positive point that I'd like to make about Robyn is that his music has seemed to mature with his lyrics (I don't mean mature in a bad way). I think his words are pondered more and his music is more textural and chordally rich. I'm convinced that it's not just production. I would also contrast Robyn's evolution with most pop stars. Most pop stars start out doing melodic, singsongy things and get instantly famous. If they make it to their third album, they get bored and reach out and start getting freakish and less listenable- even though (because?) they have learned more about music theory. No, I'm not blaming education or learning, just the necessity to flaunt one's ability to generate unlistenable crap. I'd rather not name too many names here, but there is a lot of this out there. Robyn has done some experimentation all along and has used that to define what he wants to do, he has exhibited no apparent desire to be Michael Jackson or Eric Dolphy (thank dog). I just can't let the acoustic guitar thing go, there is no more expressive and variable instrument than an acoustic guitar. Maybe it's a good thing to go outside one's schtick, but it's not the guitar that is the limitation. I hear that The Great Quail is doing a quail- chickin-pekkin'-pickin' acoustic guitar version of "Wading Through a Ventilator" for GFII. Is this true? Happies, - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:07:33 -0600 (CST) From: Bret Subject: odd querry Just wondering if there were any fegs (laughing to myself) in San Fran? please mail me off the list (or on, but Getting off the subject is easy, getting back on is hard) thanx! - --Bret ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:34:08 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: Re: Pop Stars. . . some RH content allow me to say perhaps just one more thing on this. mike k. said: > > >[Robyn] has also varied the instrumentation enough on his different albums > > >that he could probably get away with using the same chord progression for a > > >song on "You & Oblivion" as on "Globe of Frogs" and not too many of us would > > >be the wiser. eb chimes in: > > Robyn, varying his instrumentation? Huh? Just adding a sax to Groovy and a > > violin to ME isn't enough for me.... Somehow or other the discussion has gone off the rails into the swamp. I thought we were talking about instrumentation-- to me instrumentation means the instruments on a song. that's what i remember replying to. Now you've gotten back up on your saminess soapbox. Now let's get something clear-- are you calling his entire catalog samey, or just the releases after "eye"? B/c if the latter, I agree with you. But all his CD's, samey? not a chance. I like opposing views-- just be clear. And try not to generalize so much. If you can uphold those standards, I don't mind, you can be as obnoxious as you like. :) =b ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:56:19 -0600 From: "Maxey L. Mullins" Subject: moss elixir I was just wondering if there was any one else out there besides myself who think that "Moss Elixir" is a terrific album. Sure, it's "jangly, folky stuff." It's also very creative and just a joy to listen to. It's definitly the best album he's done since, "Globe of Frogs." Everyone is saying that Robyn is done growing and experimenting. But i disagree. He's getting older and he's letting his music follow with him gracefully. He's not one of those old guys who are trying to be a rock star. I mean look at the Rolling Stones. Who are they kidding? Maybe they need to start writing "jangly, folky stuff." Robyn seems to be doing what comes naturally to him and we can't blame for that. Things could be a lot worse. And who knows what he'll do in the future. He could do the most experimental album of his career next year. I won't give up on that possibility. His stuff has gotten more folky lately but I don't see what's wrong with that. I happen to like it. =Joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:26:21 -0800 (PST) From: griffith Subject: NPR I seem to remember sobody mentioning that Robyn had been featured on an 'episode" of NPR's Morning Edition or NPR's Weekend Edition. Can anyone confirm this? If so, I'd like to know the original broadcast dates. Thanks griffith = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Griffith Davies hbrtv219@csun.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:41:57 -0600 From: "JH3" Subject: Re: rh diversity Maxey writes: >...RH never strays too far from his own style. And why should he? >He's found something that really works... Actually, this is sort of related to the thing I posted earlier about arpeggios... I really think the main reason Robyn hasn't been messing around with his songwritg style lately is not because he doesn't want to, but because he feels compelled to bring out material that he can reproduce live by himself with just an acoustic guitar. Back when the Soft Boys/Egyptians existed, there was no need for that sort of self-imposed limitation. It's the reverse of the "XTC effect," whereby if you stop touring, the gloves come off and you can do anything in the you want to in the studio because you know you won't have to take a 40-piece orchestra or an enormous battery of digital samplers with you on the road. At the same time, I should say that Robyn is probably the only performer who can stand there with just an acoustic guitar and keep me fully entertained for 90 minutes. Elvis Costello and Bob Mould couldn't do it. (Eb probably couldn't do it either, unless maybe he had several guitars and was smashing them all. That'd be *cool*...) >Oh, and someone said something about the acoustic guitar not being >versatile. What are you talking about? You obviously know nothing >about the guitar. I've been playing for about 8 years. I didn't say that, of course (or did I?) - I've been playing 20 years and I agree, but you can't say that an acoustic guitar by itself is more versatile than an 8-piece band with separate horn and string sections. (And, presumably, a good arranger.) At the same time, this might be moot point as far as Robyn is concerned - wasn't he quoted as saying his next album was going to be really loud and electrified? Or was I just dreaming that? John "I've run out of Robyn shrubbery-related quotes" Hedges ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:28:50 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: sameness, or rather the discussion of same been thinking about this some more, and i think the biggest issue, for me, is that once you've written straightforward songs, you can dress them up in ways that add something to them, or you can do it in ways the make the extra instruments sound like window dressing for people that need something extra to listen to during a song but won't notice if it's any good or not. for the most part, Perspex Island and Moss Elixir fall into the latter category for me. Queen Elvis and Respect, not much less samey in songwriting, fall into the former. separate note: i also never appreciated "Freeze" until i heard it live; it's now one of my favorite songs from that period. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:41:51 -0500 From: "Gene Hopstetter, Jr." Subject: Fwd: NPR Griffith asked a tree for an autograph, and instead got: >I seem to remember sobody mentioning that Robyn had been featured on an >'episode" of NPR's Morning Edition or NPR's Weekend Edition. Can anyone >confirm this? If so, I'd like to know the original broadcast dates. In October, 1996, Robyn appeared on NPR's Fresh Air. +++++++++++++++++ "I did acid once, and I lost my keys." + Gene Hopstetter, Jr. + -- Stephin Merritt +++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: freeze On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Aaron Mandel wrote: > > separate note: i also never appreciated "Freeze" until i heard it live; > it's now one of my favorite songs from that period. the live "freeze" is indeed awesome. with the egyptians is became a jagged epic. even solo electric it is different and spellbinding. definitely one of the many exceptions to the saminess allegation. =b ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 10:57:12 -0800 From: Mark_Gloster@3com.com Subject: Re: Fwd: NPR Robyn also appeared on Weekend Edition for about 5 minutes around September. - -Markg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 13:57:33 EST From: Ross Overbury Subject: Re: Catchin' up on some threads + >>)...and, after three days of frenzi= >>dancing and lucid dreaming, we could torch the 300 foot tall Thoth! Is there a Hitchcock/lucid dreaming coorelation? I'm a lucid dreamer too, and the Goddess of Toast has led me to believe she also has a talent for lucid dreaming. I coached one feg in lucid dreaming techniques last year. Discuss lucid dreaming with your average human and you get some very strange looks indeed. > hmmm again. Some albums I distinctly did not like in that top 50. Then > again, I guess I'm in the minority in not liking "Brighten the Corners" > ("Crooked Rain" is far better) or "Dots and Loops" (try "Mars Audiac > Quintet"). I'd better listen to them again. My first take on Pavement was that they had heard Dinosaur Jr. and decided that rough was good, but forgot to notice anything else but the roughness. I've got Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain. > > >I find French rap hilarious. > > what? even the wonderful "Le nouveau Western" by MC Solaar? I dislike mo= > st > rap, but for some reason like rap in foreign languages (the name Falco is > about to appear again...), be it Falco's German rap, Einar from the > Sugarcubes with his bonkers Icelandic rap or (my personal favourite) the > great shuffling sak/rap of "Pozhetunmai" by Russian rapper Kino. Of cours= > e, > unless you've heard rap in Samoan, you haven't lived... > To me French rap is like a tap dancer doing some really busy footwork to Jimi Hendrix songs -- just completely inappropriate for that particular medium. 'Course I'm not very appreciative of rap in general. The foreign music I tend to like best is that which tries least to ape the qualities of currently trendy music from our culture. Jamaicans produced something special by allowing themselves to be really Jamaican. I'm not ruling out the benefits of cross-pollination for any other culture, but... Well, here's an example. Mory Kante plays a pretty mean kora, but when his work was mixed with that stupid synth/string orchestral glissando that was so overused in the '80s, he was not doing his music any favours. So music from other cultures tends to be best when it's produced in isolation, and all music (including that of other cultures) can benefit from external influences. Conflicting logic, right? I'm still working on it, feggies... it's from the guts. > PS - help! I am trying to remember the title of a dire US cop show from t= > he > mid-70s. The title was the name of the lead character, which I think was > Adam something or other. All I can remember of the show apart from that w= > as > the annoying call sign "Kay Emm Dee niner-niner-niner-zero!" > Not Adam 12, was it? I have *never* watched a cop show from end to end, so please don't pounce if I'm wrong. One more thing. I'm a primarily acoustic guitarist myself, and when I read the statement that acoustic was more expressive than electric, I nodded in agreement. Then I thought about it. I *like* the sound of acoustic a lot, but I couldn't think of one good reason why acoustic guitar should be more expressive than electric. Anyone care to help me with this? - -- Ross Overbury Montreal, Quebec, Canada email: rosso@cn.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:11:37 -0800 From: John Barrington Jones Subject: Re: moss elixir Joel commented on Robyn's next album: And who knows what he'll do in the future. He >could do the most experimental album of his career next year. I won't >give up on that possibility. Well, Jon Brion is producing it, he's a keyboard player, and from the stuff I've heard (The Grays, Fiona Apple, and some of the Largo gigs with Robyn and Grant Lee Phillips), he presses the Mellotron button often on his keyboard. Actually, for every keyboard sound I've heard him use, I can picture a Beatles song that had that same sound. So I think what may come out of it will be Beatlesesque, but it will be more because of the keyboards than the guitar (which is what Perspex Island ended up being to me---The Beatlesesque guitar album). People in the know are raving about the new studio material. And these people are as familiar as we are with Robyn's previous work. So I'm really looking forward to it. Now, if only I wasn't familiar with any of the songs. :) - -jbj - -*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-# John B. Jones Email: lobstie@e-z.net ICQ: 8301543 AOL IM: Lobstie House of Figgy-- http://web.syr.edu/~jojones/hitchcock.html "Well, we went to the punk bar, then we went to the heroin bar, we had pasta at Fellini, and then we went to the pretty bar." -overheard at work - -*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-#-*-# ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:12:49 -0500 (EST) From: dmw Subject: Re: instrumentation On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Ben wrote: > Eb, since you seem to know what every musician is doing wrong or right, > why don't you become one and show them how it's done? ...isn't that more or less how the world wound up with the pet shop boys? (tongue protruding through cheek) actually, i spend many hours pondering the relationship between criticism and objectivity and emotional attachment to music and what makes the whole rock'n'roll (or jazz, or tuvan throat singing, or whatever) thing work. i have a large pretentious website devoted to the results of these musings. and i still have a lot of sentimental attachment to mssr. hitchcock, but i'm afraid i'm with Eb in that i'd be really surprised if one of his records surprised me (in a big way) again. - -- d. n.p. w.a. mozart _symph 36_ - - oh,no!! you've just read mail from doug = dmayowel@access.digex.net - - and dmw@mwmw.com ... get yr pathos at http://www.pathetic-caverns.com/ - - new reviews! tunes, books, flicks, etc. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:34:09 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: instrumentation On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, dmw wrote: > i'm afraid i'm with Eb in that i'd be really surprised if one of his > records surprised me (in a big way) again. you know, doug, i'm surprised every time anything surprises me. it's so... surprising. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 16:27:58 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Neutral Black Milk Cat Saturday Hotel Eb says: >Oasis has never made an album nearly as good as the new Neutral Milk Hotel >disc (surely you don't think I would let this post go by without a NMH plug >;)). Did anyone manage to catch Neutral Milk Hotel on this tour? I am seeing them in Washington DC this Saturday -- the Black Cat Club. (Anyone going?) How do they sound live? Is this too many questions? Should I stop? - --Quail? - ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | Literature Site - The Libyrinth: TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth www.rpg.net/quail | Vampire Site - New York by Night: riverrun Discordian Society | www.rpg.net/quail/NYBN 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:30:09 EST From: MARKEEFE Subject: Re: sameness, or rather the discussion of same In a message dated 98-02-26 13:39:36 EST, you write: << once you've written straightforward songs, you can dress them up in ways that add something to them, or you can do it in ways the make the extra instruments sound like window dressing for people that need something extra to listen to during a song but won't notice if it's any good or not. for the most part, Perspex Island and Moss Elixir fall into the latter category for me. Queen Elvis and Respect, not much less samey in songwriting, fall into the former. >> While I totally agree with both Aaron's theory AND his choices for albums that fit that theory, I'm wondering what it is *about* the instrumentation and/or production on on PI & ME that don't grab Aaron and I as much as that/those on QE & Respect. Is this a random coincidence that he mentioned the same two albums that I have the same feelings about, or is there something about the qualities of these pairings of albums that makes Aaron and I (and maybe others?) prefer one set of albums to the other? There are probably just as many people out there who like PI and ME better than the other two, which is fine (of course), but would these people be able to identify anything that sets these albums apart? I can't actually come up with any theories about this, but I'd be curious to see if anyone else has any. - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:30:07 EST From: MARKEEFE Subject: Re: In sorrow not in anger In a message dated 98-02-26 04:34:27 EST, you write: << You know as well as I do that a person's opinion or decisions are rarely based solidly on empirical data and no amount of it will change a satisfied mind. What we have here coming from Eb and all is commentary. It's pretty meaningless to informed ears, but neverless fun and interesting to our bored, overeducated heads. >> This is very true. I think that this whole argument comes down to Eb not liking Robyn as much as most of the other people on this list -- as he said, RH is only around his 30th favorite artist. For myself, Robyn would be closer to my top 5 or 7 (I had the list down pretty well in my head last night as I was falling asleep, but RH's exact ranking now eludes me). Probably most other people on this list would also have Robyn in their Top 5 or Top 10. I mean, we might as well be talking about who the hottest TV actors are - -- *most* of the people on the Heather Locklear list (there isn't such a thing, *is* there?!) are going to produce oh-so-many reasons why Ms. Locklear is the hottest, while a few others (who are just on the list for the clever banter!) will say that she looks okay but is fairly limited in the scope of her acting abilities and always has bad dye-jobs (except for, ironically, when she does commercials for Loreal, or whoever it is). The presence of a detractor like Eb on this list is infuriating as all hell, and, yesterday, I was ready to hit him. On the other hand, he has probably strengthened all of our convictions about why we love Robyn Hitchcock and he has provided us with something of a sounding board for what "mass opinion" might say about RH (not that Eb's opinions necessarily reflect mass opinion, in general; but, in this instance, something closer to mass opinion than not). So, keep on grumpin', Eb. . . just keep arm's length away from me when you do. - ------Michael K. (who wrote and erased three posts on this subject yesterday, but has finally obtained some objectivity and will probably post this one). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 16:28:02 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Look Back in Anger. Or, um, don't. Instant KarmaFuzzz, >as for direct beatle rip-offs, "Don't Look Back in Anger," in addition to >trying to lyrically dispute a far superior David Bowie song, completely rips >off "Imagine" in the intro. I am not about to defend Oasis and get my hands all dirty and tangled in this particular thread. (I'm still trying to cleanse myself of my involvement in the Titanic Incident.) I mean I like them, but I certainly do not love them -- although I do think "Wonder Wall" is a *great* song. But as far as the refutation of a Bowie song, I feel that it is my duty, the pale bookish geek that I am, to add that "Look Back in Anger" was the title of a post WWII play by John Osborne that was quite in vogue in England for a while. Part of the "Angry Young Man" thing. So I assume that both Bowie and the Gallagheri are just plugging into something farther back. For all I know, Osborne got it from an even previous source, perhaps the mandatory Bible or Shakespeare, or mayhaps even Ye Booke of Taliesin or the Bodicea Diaries of Flaming Love. I don't know. . . . By the way, there was a very good version of the play put out on video in 1989 starring Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson. . . . - --Quail "Don't cheat yourselves out of liking a band that has one good song -- most don't have that many." - --Mark Gloster That's a true bit of wisdom, there, ye droogies. Thanks mate. - ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | Literature Site - The Libyrinth: TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth www.rpg.net/quail | Vampire Site - New York by Night: riverrun Discordian Society | www.rpg.net/quail/NYBN 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:30:04 EST From: MARKEEFE Subject: Re: Kimberley solo? -- bands v. solo careers In a message dated 98-02-25 23:57:10 EST, you write: << But I also think you could find very few artists who started out in bands whose solo work outshone their best work with the band. -russ >> Well, there's Roby. . . oh, wait, we're supposed to be starting with the assumption that the Soft Boys best work outshines RH's solo work. I can't say that I agree, although the Soft Boys *did* have more of an energetic edge, so, if that's what you like in music, then you'd have to like the Soft Boys more. I would have to give a nod to Richard Thompson as an artist who's solo work outshines his stuff with Fairport Convention (which was good. . . but compared to his solo career?). Personally, my favorite thing Bob Mould ever did was his solo album, "Workbook". Again, it doesn't have the ragged edge of Husker Du's stuff, but it's an amazing album. Let's see. . . Cream was a great band, but I'd be more likely to listen to Clapton's solo stuff. Same goes with Peter Gabriel over Genesis and Van Morrison over Them. Oh, Nick cave over the Birthday Party any day o' the week. Neil Young over Buffalo Springfield. I don't care for Natalie Merchant, but she has, thus far, enjoyed at least as much success as a solo artist as she did with 10,000 Maniacs (time will tell with that one). Bjork has probably now surpassed her work with Sugarcubes (although I like the first Sugarcubes album better than any Bjork solo album). Of all the examples I just listed, I think the Morrison, Young and Cave examples are the most fitting. While all these artists came from good bands, none of those bands were around for anywhere near as long as the solo artists have been -- as is the case with Robyn's life after the Soft Boys. See, in my eyes (you're going to hate me, Ross), the Soft Boys were a fun little band who put out one album that I like quite a bit (UM) and a couple of others that I don't care for so much; their main contribution to the music world, I believe, was in the birthing of RH's solo career. While there are other examples where this is not necessarily the case (all of the ex-Beatles (yes, even John), Brian Wilson, Robert Plant, and the list goes on), I think Robyn is definitely an artist whose solo work has greatly outshone his work with his previous band. - ------Michael K. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 98 16:28:05 -0500 From: The Great Quail Subject: Robthro Tullcock James says, in regards to my Jethro Tull proclivity, >Hmmm. the Quail and I share something more in common... I'd love to hear >Ian Anderson sing "The Black Crow Knows". That would be a great choice! And in return, Robyn could turn in a performance of the delightfully surreal "Mother Goose." Or other good Robyn Tull covers, "Nursie/Cheap Day Return," both emotionally resonant for personal reasons (ailing father), "One White Duck" for obvious reasons, and perhaps -- with Deni Bonet, of course -- the beautifully haunting "Summerday Sands." Come to think of it, I would love to hear a *really good* Jethro Tull tribute CD, with real bands, not these Cleopatra one-shots filled with bands no one'e ever heard of with names like "Noodle Maggots" or "Leppo and the Jooves." I think there'd be some cool ideas . . . and it would probably sound really weird, and delightfully eclectic. Other than the Robyn songs, what about Blues Traveler covering "My God," with Popper's harmonica filling in for the flute? And for jarring color, Jane's Addiction could mainline "No Lullaby," and the Pumpkins could try their hand at smashing "Living in the Past." Phish could take "Thick as a Brick" out for a spin down the ages, and maybe Bjork could get involved, taking on one of those weird Tull/Vitese electronico things off of "Under Wraps." I would love to hear Pearl Jam sing "Teacher;" U2 could wail a really fucked up version of "Skating Away," and REM could -- rustically, lyrically -- put "One Brown Mouse" in a proper cage. And the Pogues -- with Shane, of course! -- would just *have* to sing "Cap in Hand," perhaps right after Tom Waits did something very Tom Waitsish to "Thinking Round Corners." Oh, yeah, and what about Tori Amos covering "Hunting Girl?" (Christ, that would get me to, um, pay attention.) Gee . . . Oasis could even cover a Tull song that sounded like the Beatles. . . . - --Quail PS: And how about Iron Maiden doing "Crosseyed Mary?" Oh, wait. . . . - ---------------------------------+-------------------------------- The Great Quail, K.S.C. | Literature Site - The Libyrinth: TheQuail@cthulhu.microserve.com | www.rpg.net/quail/libyrinth www.rpg.net/quail | Vampire Site - New York by Night: riverrun Discordian Society | www.rpg.net/quail/NYBN 73 De Chirico Street | Arkham, Orbis Tertius 2112-42 | ** What is FEGMANIA? ** "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -- H.P. Lovecraft ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:38:13 -0500 From: kenster@MIT.EDU (Ken Ostrander) Subject: Re: instrumentatino >> Robyn, varying his instrumentation? Huh? Just adding a sax to Groovy and a >> violin to ME isn't enough for me.... it's enough for me. variation is variation. >> That's just extra percussion, basically...not really central to the >> conception of the song. maybe not YOUR conception. >When he does try to deviate from this chosen sound, he can't get past >pastiche ("Ye Sleeping Knights") and novelty ("Wafflehead"). Unconvincing. i think both of those songs are done very well. i'm sure most people would consider his entire catalogue as "novelty" for what it's worth, which ain't much. i'll admit that a lot of his stuff can be pretty silly; but that's a big part of what i love about him. besides, there are many other examples of robyn's brand of experimentation with styles, sounds, and instrumentation: uncorrected personality traits/furry green atom bowl strawberry mind chinese bones tell me about your drugs i am not me trash the fly the rain the yip song the president the devil's radio the postman's knock the devil's coachman the wreck of the arthur lee the man with the lightbulb head all i wanna do is fall in love grooving on an inner plane tropical fish mandela beautiful queen airscape luminous rose falling leaves somewhere apart superman globe of frogs winchester egyptian cream then you're dust >As for stuff sounding similar, I'm talking about the conceptual songwriting >level, everyone else is talking about surface arrangements and production >touches...You could find isolated examples to the contrary of the >above, but they just don't make much of a dent when matched with his entire >oeuvre. > >Look, RH would rank among my 30 favorite artists ever. He's great and neato >and nifty. But the reason he doesn't rank higher than 30ish is the >sameyness of his catalog...The lack of diversity gets tedious for me, and >so >does the emotional flatness. Robyn is incapable of communicating a >smile in his vocals (or true aggression/anger, for that matter). That gets >to be a drag for >me. bollocks. you can play any song on guitar. and there is a lot to be said for robyn's dedication to the guitar throughout his work. what's wrong with consistancy? it's a virtue. there are plenty of great artists out there with far less variation: bob dylan, ani di franco, the pogues, the ramones, johnny cash. beyond that, each of robyn's albums has a unique feel to it. so much so that there are some very strong opinions on this list about them. dare i mention the infamous RESPECT vs. EYE debate? and as far as conceptual songwriting goes, i think uncle bobby swims circles around most. Eb, maybe you should devote a little more time to the artists you like more. it seems like the amount of time you spend posting to this list leaves you little time for your top 29. ;^) KEN ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:48:21 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Soy Bomb >Now let's get something >clear-- are you calling his entire catalog samey, or just the releases >after "eye"? B/c if the latter, I agree with you. > >But all his CD's, samey? not a chance. Well, put it this way: I think Hitchcock's "growth curve" basically stopped after Element of Light. Particularly when it comes to music. Though as I already said, he does show a bit more willingness to write a "real" and personal lyric in recent years. That was specifically what turned me on about Respect, as opposed to his other A&M albums (and Elixir/Liquor). But it doesn't seem to be a linear evolution -- Moss Elixir was back in Fish 'N' Vegetables mode, for the most part. And I thought his one attempt to be culturally relevant/topical there ("Devil's Radio") came off VERY stale. Oh, btw, I thought Capuchin's post about Hitchcock's vocal sameyness was extremely well-stated. So let me just add a "me too" here. Jeez, do you folks live in such a vacuum? Not one post about the Grammys? Reflects the Hitchcockian create-your-own-little-world-and-hide aesthetic, I guess. Go Bawb, Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:58:58 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: Look Back in Anger >I feel that >it is my duty, the pale bookish geek that I am, to add that "Look Back in >Anger" was the title of a post WWII play by John Osborne that was quite >in vogue in England for a while. Part of the "Angry Young Man" thing. So >I assume that both Bowie and the Gallagheri are just plugging into >something farther back. I already pointed this out, GQ. >By the way, there was a very good version of the play put out on video in >1989 starring Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson. . . . Hmm. Maybe you're not aware that there was a highly influential 1959 film, also based on the play? It was the first big film of Tony Richardson (The Loved Ones, Isadora, Hotel New Hampshire, A Taste of Honey, The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner, Tom Jones, etc.) and starred Richard Burton and Claire Bloom. It was one of the pivotal early films of Britain's social-realism movement in the '60s. GAWWWD, I love that stuff. All those gritty B&W films with homely, heavily accented working-class Brits...mmmmm. Albert Finney, Richard Harris, Rita Tushingham...yummy. Eb, pale filmish geek ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:13:54 -0500 (EST) From: Aaron Mandel Subject: Re: Soy Bomb On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Eb wrote: > And I thought his one attempt to be > culturally relevant/topical there ("Devil's Radio") came off VERY stale. i thought so at the time; after hearing "Gene Hackman" and um, can't think of the others, it sounds more like he's just adding outside events to the bad of peculiar things that might turn up in a song. though on "1974" it's really very touching. > Jeez, do you folks live in such a vacuum? Not one post about the Grammys? > Reflects the Hitchcockian create-your-own-little-world-and-hide aesthetic, > I guess. oh come on, eb, criticizing a music fan for ignoring the grammys is like saying ralph nader hasn't done his job because he didn't get word of Pepsi's Amazing New Instant Twist-Off And Win! game out to consumer organizations. the only time they nominate someone even half as respectable as dylan is when the artist has long passed the point of needing affirmation from anyone, so the grammys try to leech off a little of the unimpeachability. a ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:11:05 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Soy Bomb Michael K. wrote: >The presence of a >detractor like Eb on this list is infuriating as all hell, and, yesterday, I >was ready to hit him. Well, you know...I think someone who likes about 700 different artists yet ranks RH in his all-time top 30 can hardly be called a "detractor." I liked only about 7 records in 1996 better than Moss Elixir, out of about 140 which I did like. Detractor? You'd be much more on-target to call me, say, a Radiohead detractor. A Verve detractor. Etc. Quail wrote: >What about Blues Traveler covering "My God," >with Popper's harmonica filling in for the flute? And for jarring color, >Jane's Addiction could mainline "No Lullaby," and the Pumpkins could try >their hand at smashing "Living in the Past." Phish could take "Thick as a >Brick" out for a spin down the ages, and maybe Bjork could get involved, >taking on one of those weird Tull/Vitese electronico things off of "Under >Wraps." I would love to hear Pearl Jam sing "Teacher;" U2 could wail a >really fucked up version of "Skating Away".... Oooh, please stop. You're killing me, baby. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:13:06 -0500 (EST) From: Bayard Subject: prolific-ivity This contains more responses to the "same old RH" topic. sorry. On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Capuchin wrote: > On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Aaron Mandel wrote: > > maybe it's hard for me to answer this, because robyn has put out all of > > two records in the roughly 7 years i've been a fan. > > This was kind of a sobering thought. I guess it's true. I kind of took > all those Rhino rereleases and Y&O so well that I didn't notice the lack > of new material. Don't forget the Kershaw disc and Mossy Liquor. ;) Yeah. That which has come out since _respect_ has done pretty well to quench our thirst, but it's a paltry amount when you consider that from 1991 back, he released an album a year pretty much since he started (with the exception of, i think, 1987 and the years he took a retreat after _groovy decay_. but then, there were two released a couple of those years, including 1986). > > > but while i see what > > you mean, i'm not sure he's stagnating so much as making conservative > > choices about what gets to record. "Zipper In My Spine" should have been > > on the album that became Moss Elixir, but instead it's vanished. Well put. With age comes a more conservative view, and I would hope that any musician would have definined a certain style or sound by the time he's in his 40's. He's not in a rut-- he's in his "groove". And Eb, as for "music has left RH behind"-- that's just silly. RH has never followed trends in the music world. He has music and musicians he likes and that have been influencial to him in his formative years. So his sound is not being influenced by the youngsters making music these days. Big deal! Why should it be? It boils down to, is the musician "half empty or half full"? IE, are you going to pick at RH for not blowing your mind with continual changes, or celebrate him for what he does best? This humble feg chooses the latter. I really liked what Joel said: __ Robyn seems to be doing what comes naturally to him and we can't blame for that. Things could be a lot worse. And who knows what he'll do in the future. He could do the most experimental album of his career next year. I won't give up on that possibility. His stuff has gotten more folky lately but I don't see what's wrong with that. I happen to like it. __ hear hear! I think Joel also expressed concern about appearing "blinded" b/c RH is a "fav". Well, Eb has painted the list with the broad sticky brush of "over-the-top worshipfulness" towards RH. This was when he first joined us though, so maybe he's changed his stance on that (um, does he ever change his stance on anything? probably.) But don't worry about expressing any opinions here. you're among friends. =b ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:25:45 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Soy Bomb Ken wrote: >besides, there are >many other examples of robyn's brand of experimentation with styles, >sounds, and instrumentation: > >uncorrected personality traits/furry green atom bowl >strawberry mind >chinese bones >tell me about your drugs >i am not me >trash >the fly >the rain >the yip song >the president >the devil's radio >the postman's knock >the devil's coachman >the wreck of the arthur lee >the man with the lightbulb head >all i wanna do is fall in love >grooving on an inner plane >tropical fish mandela >beautiful queen >airscape >luminous rose >falling leaves >somewhere apart >superman >globe of frogs >winchester >egyptian cream >then you're dust I'm not going to go through this list one by one, but many of these choices don't seem "deviant" to me at all. > bollocks. you can play any song on guitar. and there is a lot to >be said for robyn's dedication to the guitar throughout his work. what's >wrong with consistency? it's a virtue. there are plenty of great artists >out there with far less variation: bob dylan, ani di franco, the pogues, >the ramones, johnny cash. It's not just a question of guitar. It's a question of lyrical tone, melodic style, attitude, character, influences mined, etc. I *definitely* think Dylan's catalog is more varied than Robyn's. And the Pogues' sound *was* limited, which is why they couldn't sustain a career. And when did I ever say I liked the Ramones, Johnny Cash or (blecch) Ani DiFranco more than Robyn? > beyond that, each of robyn's albums has a unique feel to >it. so much so that there are some very strong opinions on this list about >them. dare i mention the infamous RESPECT vs. EYE debate? and as far as >conceptual songwriting goes, i think uncle bobby swims circles around most. And yet, almost all the debates are based solely in production values. Think about it. > Eb, maybe you should devote a little more time to >the artists you like more. it seems like the amount of time you spend >posting to this list leaves you little time for your top 29. ;^) Who wants to spend all his time rehashing the Beatles' greatness? Who wants to talk to a bunch of 40something Dylan fans about collecting 1997 tour tapes? Who wants to talk to a bunch of teenage REM fans who discovered the band circa Out of Time? And (grrrrrr) who wants to talk to a bunch of stodgy, anal-retentive Elvis Costello fans who can't appreciate any music that stretches beyond an old-school lyrics 'n' sheet-music songwriting aesthetic? Zzzzz. Etc. I like this list. That's why I'm here. Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:45:07 -0700 From: hal brandt Subject: Re: Soy Bomb Condescendingly, Eb wrote: > Jeez, do you folks live in such a vacuum? Not one post about the Grammys? Random observations: I was happy for Dylan and Shawn Colvin. I thought the show was hideously directed throughout. The snafu's and moments of sheer weirdness were the only things that I can, in retrospect, justify wasting my three hours on. "Soy Bomb"? What was that? A plug for that guys struggling band or something? Dylan's coolheadedness was amazing, but it's a good thing that Soy Bomb didn't have a copy of "Catcher In The Rye" and a firearm with him. Where the hell was security? Ol' Dirty Bastard of the Wu Tang Clan interrupting Shawn Colvin's moment was another lowlight. Wu Tang's last attempt at touring imploded, then they started marketing fragrances, and now this lame attempt at creating cheap controversy at the expense of someone else's golden moment. Truly low. OLB's "speech" made Fiona Apple at the MTV Awards seem coherant. Streisand and Pavarotti's no-shows must've driven the producers mad. Bette Midler's dig at Barbra was beautiful. Glad to see the reissue of Harry Smith's "Anthology Of American Folk Music" box set given the Grammy nod. *yawn* Another awards show. Next stop...the Oscars. /hal ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:14:26 -0600 From: "Maxey L. Mullins" Subject: Re: sameness, or rather the discussion of same MARKEEFE wrote: > > In a message dated 98-02-26 13:39:36 EST, you write: > > << once you've written straightforward songs, you can dress them up > in ways that add something to them, or you can do it in ways the make the > extra instruments sound like window dressing for people that need > something extra to listen to during a song but won't notice if it's any > good or not. > > for the most part, Perspex Island and Moss Elixir fall into the latter > category for me. Queen Elvis and Respect, not much less samey in > songwriting, fall into the former. >> > > While I totally agree with both Aaron's theory AND his choices for > albums that fit that theory, I'm wondering what it is *about* the > instrumentation and/or production on on PI & ME that don't grab Aaron and I as > much as that/those on QE & Respect. Is this a random coincidence that he > mentioned the same two albums that I have the same feelings about, or is there > something about the qualities of these pairings of albums that makes Aaron and > I (and maybe others?) prefer one set of albums to the other? There are > probably just as many people out there who like PI and ME better than the > other two, which is fine (of course), but would these people be able to > identify anything that sets these albums apart? I can't actually come up with > any theories about this, but I'd be curious to see if anyone else has any. > > ------Michael K. well, i don't have any theories either, but i seem to like QE and ME better than PI and Respect. (is that confusing?) i'm not sure exactly what it is. =joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:20:51 -0600 From: "Maxey L. Mullins" Subject: Re: Soy Bomb Eb wrote: > > >Now let's get something > >clear-- are you calling his entire catalog samey, or just the releases > >after "eye"? B/c if the latter, I agree with you. > > > >But all his CD's, samey? not a chance. > > Well, put it this way: I think Hitchcock's "growth curve" basically stopped > after Element of Light. Particularly when it comes to music. Though as I > already said, he does show a bit more willingness to write a "real" and > personal lyric in recent years. That was specifically what turned me on > about Respect, as opposed to his other A&M albums (and Elixir/Liquor). But > it doesn't seem to be a linear evolution -- Moss Elixir was back in Fish > 'N' Vegetables mode, for the most part. And I thought his one attempt to be > culturally relevant/topical there ("Devil's Radio") came off VERY stale. > > Oh, btw, I thought Capuchin's post about Hitchcock's vocal sameyness was > extremely well-stated. So let me just add a "me too" here. > > Jeez, do you folks live in such a vacuum? Not one post about the Grammys? > Reflects the Hitchcockian create-your-own-little-world-and-hide aesthetic, > I guess. > > Go Bawb, > Eb the grammy's? what's that? =joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:18:12 -0600 From: "Maxey L. Mullins" Subject: Re: In sorrow not in anger MARKEEFE wrote: > > In a message dated 98-02-26 04:34:27 EST, you write: > > << You know as well as I do that a person's opinion or decisions are rarely > based solidly on empirical data and no amount of it will change a > satisfied mind. What we have here coming from Eb and all is commentary. > It's pretty meaningless to informed ears, but neverless fun and > interesting to our bored, overeducated heads. >> > > This is very true. I think that this whole argument comes down to Eb not > liking Robyn as much as most of the other people on this list -- as he said, > RH is only around his 30th favorite artist. For myself, Robyn would be closer > to my top 5 or 7 (I had the list down pretty well in my head last night as I > was falling asleep, but RH's exact ranking now eludes me). Probably most > other people on this list would also have Robyn in their Top 5 or Top 10. > I mean, we might as well be talking about who the hottest TV actors are > -- *most* of the people on the Heather Locklear list (there isn't such a > thing, *is* there?!) are going to produce oh-so-many reasons why Ms. Locklear > is the hottest, while a few others (who are just on the list for the clever > banter!) will say that she looks okay but is fairly limited in the scope of > her acting abilities and always has bad dye-jobs (except for, ironically, when > she does commercials for Loreal, or whoever it is). The presence of a > detractor like Eb on this list is infuriating as all hell, and, yesterday, I > was ready to hit him. On the other hand, he has probably strengthened all of > our convictions about why we love Robyn Hitchcock and he has provided us with > something of a sounding board for what "mass opinion" might say about RH (not > that Eb's opinions necessarily reflect mass opinion, in general; but, in this > instance, something closer to mass opinion than not). > So, keep on grumpin', Eb. . . just keep arm's length away from me when > you do. > > ------Michael K. (who wrote and erased three posts on this subject yesterday, > but has finally obtained some objectivity and will probably post this one). that's exactly what i've been thinking. and i don't seem to understand why eb is even on the list if RH is only his 30th favorite. Robyn would definitly be in my top 3. and i'm glad eb's on the list. i've been enjoying the discussions. =joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:44:47 -0500 (EST) From: lj lindhurst Subject: Re: Soy Bomb >"Soy Bomb"? What was that? A plug for that guys struggling band or >something? Sure, that's Eb's new band! You were lookin good there last night, Eb. l "now featuring dialogue from the motion picture" j ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:39:21 -0600 From: "Maxey L. Mullins" Subject: the eb issue does anyone else find it extremely grosse that eb says he is a fan of over 700 artists. and that in 1996 he liked 140 different albums. i mean who has that kind of time? eb, you're either extremely rich, work at a record store, or someone's paying you to listen to music. i mean there's no way i even hear 140 new albums in a year much less like that many. that's a lot of freaking albums. i'm afraid i don't have the time or money. or maybe i'm just too caught up in my "Hitchcock vaccuum." =joel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 18:47:16 -0500 From: nicastr@idt.net (Ben) Subject: Re: instrumentation >On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Ben wrote: > >> Eb, since you seem to know what every musician is doing wrong or right, >> why don't you become one and show them how it's done? > >...isn't that more or less how the world wound up with the pet shop boys? > >(tongue protruding through cheek) > I don't follow the Pet Shop Boys (#276), so I can't say, but I imagine they have spent more time making music than criticizing it. And they probably get sent a lot of advance copies of records too. >actually, i spend many hours pondering the relationship between criticism >and objectivity and emotional attachment to music and what makes the whole >rock'n'roll (or jazz, or tuvan throat singing, or whatever) thing work. i >have a large pretentious website devoted to the results of these musings. > >and i still have a lot of sentimental attachment to mssr. hitchcock, but >i'm afraid i'm with Eb in that i'd be really surprised if one of his >records surprised me (in a big way) again. > >-- d. I doubt if Mr. Hitchcock (#83) cares if anyone one this list is surprised by any of his future releases. I would personally be totally shocked if Eb could come up with anything half as clever as "The Unpleasent Stain". > >n.p. w.a. mozart _symph 36_ > #782 - - Baby Doo-Doo (aka "Apple Head") ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:48:21 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Soy Bomb >Now let's get something >clear-- are you calling his entire catalog samey, or just the releases >after "eye"? B/c if the latter, I agree with you. > >But all his CD's, samey? not a chance. Well, put it this way: I think Hitchcock's "growth curve" basically stopped after Element of Light. Particularly when it comes to music. Though as I already said, he does show a bit more willingness to write a "real" and personal lyric in recent years. That was specifically what turned me on about Respect, as opposed to his other A&M albums (and Elixir/Liquor). But it doesn't seem to be a linear evolution -- Moss Elixir was back in Fish 'N' Vegetables mode, for the most part. And I thought his one attempt to be culturally relevant/topical there ("Devil's Radio") came off VERY stale. Oh, btw, I thought Capuchin's post about Hitchcock's vocal sameyness was extremely well-stated. So let me just add a "me too" here. Jeez, do you folks live in such a vacuum? Not one post about the Grammys? Reflects the Hitchcockian create-your-own-little-world-and-hide aesthetic, I guess. Go Bawb, Eb ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:40:39 -0700 From: Eb Subject: Re: bands v. solo careers Michael K. wrote [with some edits]: > I would have to give a nod to Richard Thompson as an artist who's solo >work outshines his stuff with Fairport Convention (which was good. . . but >compared to his solo career?). Same >goes with Peter Gabriel over Genesis and Van Morrison over Them. Oh, Nick >Cave over the Birthday Party any day o' the week. Neil Young over Buffalo >Springfield. Bjork has probably now surpassed her >work with Sugarcubes (although I like the first Sugarcubes album better than >any Bjork solo album). Yup, yup, yup, yup, yup, yup. And I even agree with you about the Sugarcubes debut/Bjork solo point at the end. Some other examples I can think of: Todd Rundgren vs. the Nazz, Juliana Hatfield vs. the Blake Babies, Simon Bonney vs. Crime & the City Solution, K. McCarty vs. Glass Eye, Gavin Friday vs. Virgin Prunes, Epic Soundtracks vs. Swell Maps (and others), Jason Falkner vs. Jellyfish/Grays, Matthew Sweet vs. Oh-OK, Eric Matthews vs. Cardinal, Robert Wyatt vs. Soft Machine/Matching Mole and Chris Knox vs. Tall Dwarfs (asterisk that choice, since the Dwarfs still endure). Paul Simon vs. Simon vs. Garfunkel, Arto Lindsay vs. Ambitious Lovers and Mark Lanegan vs. Screaming Trees are too close to call, for me. Yeah, there aren't too many. Your above citings are probably better examples than any of those I named (I won't side with your Mould/Husker, Merchant/10000M and Cream/Clapton mentions, however). Then Ben attempted the same point, twice in a row: >Eb, since you seem to know what every musician is doing wrong or right, >why don't you become one and show them how it's done? > >I would personally be totally shocked if Eb >could come up with anything half as clever as "The Unpleasent Stain". You know, this "Let's see you do something better" argument is weak, weak, weak and always has been. I see it in newsgroups all the time (and not just in a musical context). Feeble. Eb, who plays piano quite well, actually ------------------------------ End of fegmaniax-digest V7 #73 ******************************